Gregory/Petukhov Get SA [Archive]

copythat

09-13-2002, 09:10 AM

Yes, congrats to Gregory/Petukhov. Nice to see them rewarded. However, I still believe, after watching Gibbons/Pekarek two days in a row, they will push them for 3rd. On Thurs. my daughter had her first basic skills class at the Gardens so I took her and then went to the rink next door and watched Gib/Pek. They did their full free dance, and all I could say was WOW. Fast, difficult, lots of hand holds, face to face, good circle moves, lots of expression, it made me watch. And it was fun!!

Maybe I'm just naive but I've watched a lot of dance and this new team is just as talented and Pekarek is well known on the national and Int'l circuit. And, patriotism aside, they are both American, and if the national org. wants a team capable of going to the Olys in '06, then they need to either move Gib/Pek along quickly (or Sil/For) or expect their # two/three teams (B/A and Greg/Pet) will be unable to attend due to citizenship issues. And that is assuming that Peter/Naomi will still be competing. Heck, by that time, Peter will be 35....that will be very difficult for them. Oh well, no need to speculate, it will be a fun nationals to watch.

Lisa

Leela

09-13-2002, 10:26 AM

Coypthat----what music are Hilary and Justin skating their freedance to?

Josef

09-13-2002, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by copythat
Maybe I'm just naive but I've watched a lot of dance and this new team is just as talented and Pekarek is well known on the national and Int'l circuit. And, patriotism aside, they are both American, and if the national org. wants a team capable of going to the Olys in '06, then they need to either move Gib/Pek along quickly (or Sil/For) or expect their # two/three teams (B/A and Greg/Pet) will be unable to attend due to citizenship issues. And that is assuming that Peter/Naomi will still be competing. Heck, by that time, Peter will be 35....that will be very difficult for them. Oh well, no need to speculate, it will be a fun nationals to watch.

Lisa

Well, Lisa, you are certainly entitled to your opinion just as much as anybody else. Having seen Gregory/Petukhov skate several times this summer, I feel that they are certainly paving the road to another medal at nationals. If any other dance teams want that medal, they will need to outskate them.

I'm sure that Gibbons/Pekarek are very talented by the sound of your report, HOWEVER why do you feel that they should move up in the nationals any faster solely due to the fact that both are US citizens? If Gibbons/Pekarek are good enough to progress rapidly, so be it. It should not have anything to due with birthplaces, however.

Also, FYI, Denis will for sure have his US citizenship before the 2006 Olympics.

Josef

09-13-2002, 10:00 PM

For those who were curious, Gregory/Petukhov's free dance for the 2002-03 season will be to Craig Armstrong's "Snow".

copythat

09-16-2002, 07:45 AM

Josef said, "If Gibbons/Pekarek are good enough to progress rapidly, so be it. It should not have anything to due with birthplaces, however."

Josef,

Are you directly connected to Greg/Petuk?? You seem to have a very close association with them and maybe manage their website? I can understand your bias, they are a lovely team. He is a much better skater than her but she is getting better, IMO.

I have no association with Gib/Pek. I just saw them skate, and having taken dance, watched many nationals, attended the novice sectionals as a skater, observed how teams move through the system,etc., this team is on par. I'm sure Gre/Pet have improved also and will be tough to beat but all things equal, I think it will be a close call.

As for your other comment above, I think it does matter that we have U.S. citizenship teams. Yes, they have to be good, and skate well and beat other teams they are competing against. But if I'm a judge, and two teams are dead even, and their are citizenship issues on one team and none on the other, I'll pick the U.S. team.

Now for my editorial: Given how the rest of the world lately seems to feel about Russian dominance in skating, corrupt deals and Russian influence in judging, I think the U.S. would be wise to find American teams in pairs & dance and promote them. You may think I'm naive but given the Olys scandal, 9-11, and the mood of the country, I think it matters to U.S. judges and to the skating community.

Lisa

Aaron W

09-16-2002, 08:10 AM

Lisa,

Keep in mind that it appears that Denis will be a full time American citizen by the time the 2006 Winter Olympics come around. So even with your current stance that the US judges should go along with the "American" teams, it really doesn't involve Gregory & Petukov since from what I've heard, he'll have his citizenship in time for the 2006 Olympics.

I'll add that IMHO, the US judges should take no considerations between teams because of the Olympic/Russian/French/US media fiasco that resulted last February, nor because of the patriotism aspect resulting from 9/11. Results should be based entirely on the skills presented in competition. If teams are exactly identical in their skill level, I guess I can see the US judges going with the one who will have the chance to compete in Turin, but the only major team at the moment who has those problems is Belbin & Agosto and I certainly don't want to see their hard work and dedication pushed down by any judges just because she grew up on the wrong side of the border.

copythat

09-16-2002, 09:45 AM

Aaron,

I truly respect your opinion -- but I don't agree. :) For example:

You said: ".....the only major team at the moment who has those (citizenship) problems is Belbin & Agosto and I certainly don't want to see their hard work and dedication pushed down by any judges just because she grew up on the wrong side of the border."

First, Tanith and Ben are wonderful skaters. And they do look great together. But since you defended her, why is she getting U.S. citizenship? Is it because she loves the U.S. so much? Is her family getting U.S. citizenship also (I truly don't know but I doubt it.) My guess: she saw a quick path to the top in U.S. ice dancing as oppossed to Canada which had better teams and took it. Will she stay in the U.S. after her ice dancing career? (I doubt it). Does this desire to compete in ice dancing justify the U.S. giving her citizenship? IMO, no, especially since she'll probably go back to Canada after her skating career.

I am not disparaging Tanith....she is alovely girl. But I do not agree with why the Petuhkov's and Belbin's of this world are getting citizenship in the U.S. To me, it smacks of hipocrasy. In the case of Petuhkov, given what happened to Peter T. and the many delays, I would never count on him being a citizen by '06 as didn't he just get his green card, and it takes five years after that.

Lisa (who knows she'll probably get deluged with this one but it's how I feel.)

Aaron W

09-16-2002, 10:22 AM

I do want to point out that the reason why Denis will become an American citizen quicker is because he and Melissa are married. That speeds up the process. And before anyone questions whether the marriage was one of just convenience, both Melissa and Denis seem very much in love.

copythat

09-16-2002, 10:38 AM

Aaron said: "I do want to point out that the reason why Denis will become an American citizen quicker is because he and Melissa are married. That speeds up the process. And before anyone questions whether the marriage was one of just convenience, both Melissa and Denis seem very much in love."

Aaron,

Your response said it all on how people manipulate the U.S. system of citizenship, especially that they "seem very much in love." My friend in Colorado Springs, who visits the World Arena with her daughter and watches Greg/Pet practice, say they both have "other" friends and that the marriage is truly one of convenience. I don't know what to believe but it sure looks like a marriage of opportunity: for her since she couldn't find a partner in the U.S., and for him, since he wanted to get out of Russia, probably get paid to come to the U.S., skate and become a U.S. citizen....not a bad deal. And you wonder why I'm pro-American? Sheezh.

I'm sending this to the USFSA although I'm sure they've heard it all before. Thanks, Aaron.

Lisa

legjumper

09-16-2002, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by copythat
First, Tanith and Ben are wonderful skaters. And they do look great together. But since you defended her, why is she getting U.S. citizenship? Is it because she loves the U.S. so much? Is her family getting U.S. citizenship also (I truly don't know but I doubt it.) My guess: she saw a quick path to the top in U.S. ice dancing as oppossed to Canada which had better teams and took it.
Tanith did not choose to skate with Ben because she saw a quick path to the top in U.S. ice dancing--she chose to skate with Ben because he was the best match for her. End of story. When Tanith and Ben teamed up, Ben wasn't exactly a "name" skater, and Tanith had been competing in pairs, not dance. Furthermore, there was a little team called Silverstein & Pekarek training at DSC who were getting more than a lion's share of buzz as being the next great U.S. dance team. Lang & Tchernyshev were also there. I don't see how anyone could have expected Belbin & Agosto to rise as quickly as they did back when they first got together in 1998. And why pair up with someone for a quick rise to the top when citizenship is such a lengthy process? I think it's a major injustice to both skaters to believe that they only teamed up for "quick" success.

Trillian

09-16-2002, 10:50 AM

Lisa, people "say" a lot of things in this sport--that doesn't make them true. Particularly at the upper levels and particularly in dance, there's an awful lot of gossip that either is a distorted version of reality or has no basis in reality at all. Some of it arises out of jealousy of a person, or just plain dislike of that person, and sometimes people just gossip because they think it's fun. And of course sometimes things are true--but the thing is, unless you actually know the people involved, you really have no way of knowing.

I can name at least half a dozen reasons why people would want to spread malicious and damaging (but untrue) gossip about this particular dance team. So I'm inclined to be pretty skeptical of anything that simply comes with the explanation that people are "saying" it. And it's not really fair to these people to publicly spread rumors which you have no actual basis for confirming.

haribobo

09-16-2002, 11:26 AM

I don't see how one can call themselves "pro-American" when they are arguing against the very customs that created this country in the first place. Aren't we all either immigrants or descendants of immigrants?

I do believe that Melissa and Denis married out of love, but if not, so what? It's not as if they did anything illegal. If you have a problem with the process by which people acquire American citizenship, then I think you're wasting your time by writing to figure skating officials. Better take this one straight to the U.S. government! 8O

Going by the results at Worlds, Tanith and Ben would be the number 3 team in Canada, which is exactly what they would be in the U.S. right now if Silverstein/Pekarek hadn't split up (and how were they to know that they would?)......so that argument does not work for me. Especially since B/K are older than L/T and thus closer to retirement...

Finally, I have nothing against Gibbons OR Pekarek, but I find it hard to believe that a girl competing in her first ever nationals, and a guy who has been out of competition for 3 seasons, will suddenly storm on to the National podium. They may look surprisingly strong for being a new pairing, but trust me, they have a ways to go before they hit the top 4 at Nationals...

Jack

09-16-2002, 12:33 PM

Why all this fuss? We all know what's going to happen this year in Senior dance. Naomi and Peter are going to be held up in first place because the American judges want to encourage them to stick around until 2006. Tanith and Ben will get second so that they can be sent to worlds and place well to give American ice dancers more international opportunities next year. But when Natls in 2005 comes around, they will get royally screwed and end up in third place to make room for a second rate team that is eligible for Turin. Third will go to Gregory and Petukhov who will deserve it, they are a very good team. Fourth will not go to Gibbons and Pek, they will end up around 7th or 8th.

Yes, Justin is an amazing skater, but right now he's skating because he loves it, he loves skating with Hillary, and he doesn't have any illusions of winning it this year, unlike some of you.

Trillian

09-16-2002, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by Jack
Tanith and Ben will get second so that they can be sent to worlds and place well to give American ice dancers more international opportunities next year. But when Natls in 2005 comes around, they will get royally screwed and end up in third place to make room for a second rate team that is eligible for Turin.

Out of curiosity, what makes you think that will happen, after the way nationals turned out this year? Clearly the USFSA has no problem with placing skaters where the judges feel they belong, and then simply sending the highest ranking eligible team. If they were willing to place the eligible #2 team in fourth place at nationals this year, I don't see any danger of Tanith and Ben being shoved aside simply because someone else has U.S. citizenship and she doesn't.

copythat

09-16-2002, 01:18 PM

Everyone:

Sorry I created such a stir. I have strong opinions about citizenship, sorry they spilled over into skating. I like all the comments that were given and it's obvious that some of you have your favorites while others are much more knowledgeable than I. We should agree on one thing: the quality of skating will decide who places where and I'm all for that.

Oh Jack, I'll take that bet on Gib/Pek in 7th or 8th. My prediction: 3rd or 4th. :) The bet: humble apology the day after Nationals!!!

Have fun y'all. And now, I'll get to pay for taking my daughter to the rink: she wants to do Basic Skills!!! (she says smiling.)

Lisa

Josef

09-16-2002, 03:34 PM

copythat,

Yes, I do manage Greg/Pet's website and yes I am close to them but that is beside the point.

I totally agree with Aaron W that results in ALL figure skating events should be based on who is most talented. All of this 9/11 stuff has nothing to do with how figure skating events are judged, BTW. I have not see Gib/Pek skate so therefore I do not know what their talent level but, like I said, Greg/Pet have improved immensely during the off-season and will definitely be very tough to knock off the podium.

When formulating your dislike for immigrants did you consider that Justin learned to skate from two "NON-AMERICANS"? Who's to say that he would have progressed to the level he is now at without them. Where would American ice dancing be without the skaters and coaches from overseas that have entered the system in the past decade? Name one podium team from the past five years that all of these points apply to: a) both were born in the United States. b) Their coach(es) were also born in the United States. c) Their choreographer(s) were also born in the United States. Not a one. Ice dancing is by nature a very international discipline of figure skating, IMO.

Also, when Melissa married Denis he did not have a Russian release (permission to skate for any other country) nor was he positive he would EVER get one. They married because they were in love, and they became partners on the ice because they were a good match and had a good connection from the get-go. It is not an opportunity marriage by any means, whatsover. Whatever your "friend" in Colorado Springs told you (which they probably "heard" from someone) is a pure lie. Melissa & Denis are a couple happily married in America doing what they love. Why pass on malicious GOSSIP to the contrary when you have no idea whether or not it is true?

AxelAnnie22

09-16-2002, 04:40 PM

Lisa, I am not only going to agree with all you have said (except the stuff about the people who got married - I haven't a clue), I take it one step further.

I have this really silly notion that one should be a citizen of the country for which you skate, AND, you should live and train in the country you represent! I know this is a really "out there" kind of concept, but what can I say.

As to Tanith and Ben - they know exactly what the groundrules are, and they choose to deal with the limitations. Why don't they go to Canada? (And, I don't mean that creepily). Wouldn't Ben be able to qualify for citizenship faster there?

Patty

09-17-2002, 03:41 AM

IMO, American ice dancing used to be of a lower quality and rather boring to watch, but has vastly improved since 1990 with the influx of foreign skaters, coaches, and choreographers. Where would the US be today without them? Somewhere between 15th and 25th in the World with only one spot?

The US may potentially produce ice dancers who can actually become Olympic medalists. IMO, this would be impossible without "foreign" help.

IIRC, the most medals won by a US men's swimmer at the '00 Olympics was by "former foreigner" Lenny Krazelberg (sp?). So, foreign athletes end up helping the US. Thus, IMO, it's much more patriotic to support foreign skaters becoming citzens, than not to.

I wish foreign skaters could be fast tracked, so they could acheive citzenship as soon as possible. Athletes, performers, etc. who obviously aren't threats to our security and are here to help the US should be given citzenship as soon as possible.

And who's to say Tanith won't stay
in the US after her competitive years? Some Canadian skaters do live and coach here in the US.

michele

09-17-2002, 06:11 AM

In fact, pick up any Canadian newspaper and you'll often see lamenting over the amount of talents (in academia and elsewhere) "lost" to the States. Many of those might say they'd like to return to Canada but a lot less actually do so. It'll be many years till Tanith retires, and by then chances are she'll have set up roots (studies, significant other, etc) that will keep her in the US.

And I doubt most Canadian skating fans care that B&K's highest Worlds result was achieved by training in the US under a Russian coach. :)

Scott

09-17-2002, 07:27 AM

I think that it is wonderful that Greg/Petukov will be at Skate Amereica. This is going to be a neat competition where America will have a chance to showcase some of its new, upcoming teams in both dance and Pairs.

As far as Aaron's comments concerning speeding up the process for becoming a US citizen please take note that being married to an american has no bearing on this status. All candidates for citizenship must go through the same process and must wait for the same timeframes to pass. The only way to speed up the process is for the candidate to apply to Congress to vote for a special circumstance to speed up becoming a citizen. This is not an easy process and given the circumstances that we are faced with in the world today I would guess that the process is going to be toughened. This may make it impossible for Petukov to become a citizen in time for the next Olys.

Concerning dance for this year I think we are going tofinally have an exciting competition at Nationals. I think that there is definately going to be a challenge forthe top spot and I think that there is a strong possibility that our current national champs may not be at the top of the podium this time around. There is going to be a very strong challenge from the likes of Beldin/Agusto, Gregory/ Petukov and others. I think that this venue is wide open this year. But not as wide open as the pairs competition!

Leela

09-17-2002, 11:59 AM

Don't forget, Tanith came to the U.S. when she was only 14 years old. It's not like she was an established skater who just came here to take advantage of an easy situation! She was really just starting out in dance. She was sent to Detroit by her Canadian coach because they decided there wasn't a proper partner for her or a good enough dance coach there. Igor Shpilband took her on and partnered her with an American guy. Since she and her family had moved here, and she trained here with an American partner, it seems obvious for her to represent the U.S. She is seeking American citizenship in the best tradition of all our citizens who have come here from other countries---building up her career from her bootlaces by diligent, hard work and developing herself into someone that has so much to give back to her adopted land. Why would people object to talented young people coming here to train or study, and becoming valuable members of our society??

ClevelandDancer

09-17-2002, 04:35 PM

Originally posted by AxelAnnie22

I have this really silly notion that one should be a citizen of the country for which you skate, AND, you should live and train in the country you represent! I know this is a really "out there" kind of concept, but what can I say.

So, Annie is saying that nobody (at least no athlete) should ever move from their country of origin, even if the facilities and opportunities for them to pursue their goals do not exist.

I am an American, born and raised in the good old USA. Some of my ancestors are as "American" as you can get (Native American). My other ancestors immigrated from places such as Poland, Germany, France, Ireland and Scotland anywhere from 90 to 400 years ago. They came here for various reasons, including persecution and lack of opportunity. When they came here, they were all citizens of other countries.

Naomi Lang is the only elite US ice dancer I am aware of that claims to be Native American (I believe she is half?). Every other elite US ice dancer is either from another country or a decendent of citizens from other countries. At some point in each of their histories, they or an ancestor dealt with the intolerance that accompanies moving to a new country. One person does not a dance team make, let alone a field of dance teams.

Since the USA, known by such monikers as "The Land of Opportunity" and "Melting Pot", has only one elite ice dancer that actually has deep roots here, maybe we should quietly drop out of world ice dancing all together? Maybe we shouldn't be such extremists, but maybe we should exclude anyone who's grandparents weren't all born and bred in the USA. Bye-bye Sasha Cohen and Michelle Kwan, to name just two.

Or perhaps, we should be more tolerant and recognise that our ancestors came from other countries as well. They came to good old USA (or perhaps it was young at the time) to build a better life. We should not discriminate against an athlete because he or she happened to be born elsewhere and is the first generation of their family to come to the USA. I'm sure your <insert appropriate number of greats here>-grandparents would agree.

Besides, our ice dance field would have been really, really weak the last 5 or 6 years without these first-generation Americans or wanna-be-Americans. Off the soap box now.

Shi

09-17-2002, 04:53 PM

I've been reading this all argument, and i was thinking: does it really matter how long have you lived or not in one country? What matters is what one's feeling.

I am an American citizen. I have never lived in the US - i have been living in Israel all my life, but i feel American, because most of my family is there, and my roots is there. I can only assume that people who actually live there, and it doesn't matter if it's a year or ten, might feel American too, because people tend to feel connected to the place where they're living in. If someone's married to American, it might make him feel American as well. Sure, there are laws to determine the citizenship part, but who are we to judge who's more American and who is less? And as far as i'm concerned, what counts it's the will to represent the country. if it's important to someone to represent the US, for example, even if he doesn't live there, but is a citizen (and the other way around, too) - that's for this person to decide.

And as for Ice-Dance: I think that this year we get one of the more intersting ice-dance fields in the last few years. there's no doubt about Lang & Tchernyshev abilities, and i think B&A made an amazing progress, but the new generation of ice-dance in the US really gives me hope to see more NA ice dancing in the near future. personally, i love Melissa and Denis, and i really can't wait to see both Gibbons / Perkarek and Silverstein / Forsyth. I don't know about you - i like the positive things better. let's just enjoy some good skating!

IgglesII

09-17-2002, 07:41 PM

Scott

09-18-2002, 07:10 AM

Skaters should train where they can find the best facilities. Where you train doesn't matter. I think that it is a honor that so many skaters come to the US or Canada to train. It is a great credit. However, I am not signed on to this notion that you should nation shop to represent other countries. For example, I think it is wrong for Triffun to be representing Yugoslavia just because he can't get a placement in his own country ( USA). Either you are a citizen of a country or you are not. I find it offensive that someone would turn his or her back on their country for personal gain. If you want the rights that go along with being a citizen of the USA, or Canada, or any where else for that matter, then you represent that country. If you are going to represent another country you should have to get citizenship in that country and then give up the citizenship in the country that you are leaving. You shouldn't have it both ways! That is not fair, because most countries prohibit dual citizenship.

Aaron W

09-18-2002, 11:14 AM

Deleted

IgglesII

09-19-2002, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by Scott
If you are going to represent another country you should have to get citizenship in that country and then give up the citizenship in the country that you are leaving. You shouldn't have it both ways! That is not fair, because most countries prohibit dual citizenship.

Which is why this system should be more like tennis and golf, where a select few competitions are about citizenship, but the bulk are about the individual regardless of citizenship.

ClevelandDancer

09-20-2002, 09:09 AM

Originally posted by IgglesII
Which is why this system should be more like tennis and golf, where a select few competitions are about citizenship, but the bulk are about the individual regardless of citizenship.

I totally agree with this sentiment. It's hard to find the right dance/pairs partner and throwing the extra requirement of specific citizenship makes it worse. Look at some of these teams (excuse the spelling!) and their original citizenship:

Anissina (Russia) & Piezerat (France), representing France
Bourne (Canada) & Kraatz (Germany, dual?), representing Canada
Chait (Israel) and Sahknovski (Russia), representing Israel
Lang (USA) and Tchernyshev (Russia), representing USA
Belbin (Canada) and Agosto (USA), representing USA

As much commentary as goes on about "Girl X and Boy Y aren't a very good match, they should both find new partners" on internet groups such as this one, you'd think removing citizenship from the picture would be a good thing.

Also, if skating were more like golf and tennis, we'd see better world championship competitions (i.e., Worlds, Olympics, 4C, Europeans, let's call them "majors", ok?). For example, the USA had 4 or 5 ladies last season that were capable of placing in the top 10 of a major, and another 4 or 5 capable of top 20, but only 3 get to go. Likewise, Russia has about 4 men, 4 ladies, 4 or 5 dance teams, and 4 or 5 pairs teams that also should get major berths. At the other extreme, there are countries that don't have anyone for event X that can make it out of qualifying rounds that send someone anyway. A world ranking system, with competitions similar to the Grand Prix events, would make things better. I think the worlds fields should be expanded in singles, I'm not sure if there are elite dance/pairs teams around to expand those too much more. I also think those who don't make it out of qualifying rounds should all skate in a "second tier" competition and nobody should be dropped from the short to the long program. This way, everyone gets a proper ranking rather than 1-30 or 30+. Everyone also gets international experience. This is what I mean:

60 Ladies enter worlds
Qualifying rounds (2 groups of 30) take place. The top 15 from each group go into the primary "bracket", the bottom 15 go into the "consolation" bracket.
All skaters in each bracket compete in both the SP and LP in their respective bracket, no trimming after the SP.
Top bracket ranks (for this competitions value) in order, bottom bracket ranks 31-60.

Majors would be worth more than minor competitions, some sort of limitations on how many minors/majors (how far back, maximum number per year) would be needed. Also, some balance of value, i.e., Skate America (a minor) is worth more than Vienna Cup.

Just IMHO.

Leela

09-20-2002, 01:45 PM

Hey Cleveland Dancer---your idea would be great, as long as the JUDGING WAS FAIR!!!:evil:

viv64

09-20-2002, 10:14 PM

When did Gibbons and Pek team up? As I understood in the past,Justin quit ice dancing? why did he have a change of heart. It seems like it's everyboys dream in the U.s. to skate w/ Jaime

Jack

09-21-2002, 09:46 AM

Originally posted by viv64
When did Gibbons and Pek team up? As I understood in the past,Justin quit ice dancing? why did he have a change of heart. It seems like it's everyboys dream in the U.s. to skate w/ Jaime

Hillary is Justin's girlfriend, and she was his girlfriend long before she was his partner. They started skating together just for fun, but it apparently worked out well enough to merit a comeback for Justin.

It is every male ice dancer's dream to skate with Jamie EXCEPT for Justin, he's already been down that bumpy road.

Shi

09-21-2002, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by ClevelandDancer
I totally agree with this sentiment. It's hard to find the right dance/pairs partner and throwing the extra requirement of specific citizenship makes it worse. Look at some of these teams (excuse the spelling!) and their original citizenship:

Chait (Israel) and Sahknovski (Russia), representing Israel

This one is actually wrong - Sakhnovski was born in Russia and grew up there, that's true - but he's Jewish. So he never had to apply for Israeli citizenship. he just got it when he arrived in Israel; It doesn't count on your list.

GreekGoddess85

09-21-2002, 01:17 PM

I cannot wait to see them :)

ClevelandDancer

09-22-2002, 08:20 PM

Originally posted by Shi
This one is actually wrong - Sakhnovski was born in Russia and grew up there, that's true - but he's Jewish. So he never had to apply for Israeli citizenship. he just got it when he arrived in Israel; It doesn't count on your list.

We're talking about moving citizenship around. From an unofficial website,
http://www.uxg.com/dgalit/english/about.html :

Galit found that having a partner was much more interesting, and began taking lessons from Dubova. She first paired with another Russian, Maxim Sevostianov, and competed in the U.S. Nationals in 1994, finishing 6th. The couple then competed for Israel at the 1994 World Championships, finishing 28th. Galit then changed partners to Sergei Sakhnovskiy, a native of Moscow.

Sergei began skating at the age of four. Although he also began in free-style, he switched to dance at eight. "It is not only a sport, but an art", he said. He had several partners, winning the World Junior Championships in 1993 and finishing second in 1994 with Ekaterina Svirina, competing for Russia.

She went USA -> Israel, he went Russia -> Israel. They both had/have citizenship in another country. What is the difference between "new" citizenship is an instantaneous birthright or it being a process that takes years and years? The end result is sometimes a skater skates for one country and then "changes" to a new one.

Add to my list Tatiana Navka, Belarus -> Russia. Yes, they are very close, but so are the USA and Canada. For instance, Tanith Belbin's birthtown is right across a river from New York State, and her training town (Detroit) has bridges that cross to Canada. It's really a lot less strange that she found a partner in the USA than Galit Chait skated for the USA then Israel and Sakhnovsky skated for Russia and then Israel.

All the same, I'm all for ignoring citizenship in sport and just letting the best athletes "play".