Middle Atlantic Championships (NY) - Results Posted

[Arsenette]

I have 3 competing there.. wondering if someone can watch them for me :D

PRFSF Calendar (http://www.prfsf.org/Calendar.htm)

[Spinner]

I'm trying to work it out, but my schedule at work (and finding a really cheap place to stay) will be my biggest hinderances. I'm trying though! ;)

[Trillian]

Just a guess, but the "Mids" in this case is probably Mid-Atlantics, which is coming up at the SC of New York--next week or the week after? I was planning to go last year before it was cancelled, but this year there's not even the slimmest chance. I'd be curious to read any reports too.

[kar5162]

I will be there from Friday on most of the time. I'll be volunteering, and I don't plan to post detailed descriptions, but if there's someone in particular you want to hear about, I will try to get you that information. I will post results as much as possible.

Spinner, I sent you a pm about housing.

[Louis]

I'll be going from Friday afternoon through Sunday. There are events going on in both rinks, but if you post or PM me with the names and levels of the skaters you want, I'll see if I or someone I know can catch their performances.

[Sylvia]

I'm pretty sure Spinner thought Mids = Midwestern Sectionals in mid-November! ;)

The event schedule for Mid-Atlantics (club competition in NYC this week) and a listing of skaters by level can be viewed on the SC of NY website at:
http://www.thescny.org/events.html

[adrianchew]

I guess I now know what I'll be doing this weekend! :roll:

Probably Thu/Fri evenings, and part-day Sat/Sun. Who else is going to be there?

[kar5162]

Oh yeah. I didn't think of that with Spinner. Flights to NY are umm...cheap right now. Shows how skating crazy I am though that it seemed perfectly reasonable to fly 1/2 way across the country to watch a non-qual comp. :oops:

[adrianchew]

Spinner came to visit me recently - now if he had timed it right! ;)

But then again, I don't think he wanted to spend his time in NYC cooped up in a cold ice rink, watching a non-qual comp.

[Mazurka Girl]

I'm interested in reading about all the novice through senior events & intermediate men if anyone can post some updates. Thanks y'all. :)

[Spinner]

Yup, I was thinking Midwestern Sectionals! Thanks for the pm anyway kar5162!

[jkl]

Spinner,
Keep in touch with me... I live in Franklin, Tn and can make some suggestions closer to the time of Mids.

Julie:) :D ;)

[Sylvia]

If anyone will be at Chelsea Piers rink tonight (Thursday), I'd like to know the Junior Ladies SP final results and any impressions/notes you might have. Some of the skaters to watch are: Leah Agler, Katherine Hadford, Emily Hughes, Suzanne McDonald, Kristina Moore. Thanks in advance!

[Arsenette]

Sorry.. I meant Mid Atlantics (that's why I put the link to my website with the times my girls are skating)..

Junior Short - our Kristine (Stone) came in 4th.. I heard Moore came in 3rd?

Intermediate B - our girl Amanda came in 5th (qualifying to final rounds)
Intermediate C - our girl Stefanie came in 6th (just out of qualifying - top 5 made it).

I should get phone reports (more tomorrow)... would LOVE to hear from you guys as well.. Hey.. if anyone has pics.. PLEASE LET ME KNOW!! :D

[adrianchew]

Junior Ladies SP

Ordered by results after the SP, 1st - 14th. Notes - I might have missed or miscounted jumps possibly.

1 - Emily Hughes (SCNY) - 3T/2T, f-camel, 2A, spiral sequence (her forward spiral is much like her sisters), layback, 2Z, split, camel/layback/backsit. Lots of speed, but presentation could be improved. Probably one of her best skates so far? Only clean skater of the evening.

2 - Leah Agler (SCNY) - 2A, 3S?(fall), spiral sequence, f-camel, layback/foot-to-head catch foot layback, 2Z, sit/Biellmann/backsit/Y.

3 - Kristina Moore (Washington FSC) - 2A, 3F(fall), camel/catch-foot, 2Z, layback, spiral sequence, combination spin/layback.

4 - Kristine Stone (American Academy FSC) - 3T/2T, f-camel, 2Z, spiral sequence (slight wobble into entry of first forward spiral position), camel/sit/layback/backsit, 2A(fall, looks like she slipped off the landing edge?), layback. I like the chereography and little details in her program, nice speed/flow. Yes, I took extra notes for Arsenette, and said hi to her after the competition. :oops:

5 - Katherine Hatford (UDFSC) - layback/foot-to-head catch foot layback, 2A, 2T(she warmup up and crashed a 3T in warmup), spiral sequence, spreadeagle, f-camel/catch-foot spin, 2Z, camel/sit/layback/Biellmann/foot-to-head spin. Very nice spin positions, but overall I think she could use a little more speed, and both times I've seen her recently, her jumps are not looking all that great.

6 - Holly Ponichtera (American Academy FSC) - 3S/1T, 2A(fall), 2Z, f-camel, spiral sequence, layback, camel/sit/layback/backsit.

7 - Jenny Erika (SCNY) - layback(nice), 3T(fall), 2Z, camel, 2A, split, spiral (incl. side spiral, charlotte, nice positions), Y-spin.

8 - Karen Shua-Haim (Garden State SC) - spiral sequence, layback (both have nice positions, but not very fast), 3T(fall), 2A(step out), camel, 2Z, camel/sit/Biellmann?/backsit.

9 - Sarah Muhl (UDFSC) - f-camel, 2A(underotated), 2L(fall), spiral sequence, layback, 2Z, layback/backsit/backscratch.

10 - Laurie Krein (SCNY) - spiral sequence, f-camel, 2A, spreadeagle, layback, 2Z, split, fall on some jump, camel/sit/layback/backsit.

11 - Jenny Shimburg (Upper Mountain) - spiral seq, 1A, 2Z/2T, camel/layback/catch-foot-spin, f-camel, 2L, layback.

12 - Monica Victoria Marks (SCNY) - 3S(fall), 2A(fall), spiral, f-camel, 2?, layback, camel/layback/b-camel/sit.

13 - Nikki Gallo (Cantiague FSC) - 1.?A, layback, 2S/1S, spiral seq, 2Z(fall), camel/layback/backsit, f-camel.

14 - Jessica Kleinwaks (SCNY) - 1A(2-foot landing), 2S?/2T, sit/backsit, 2Z(fall), spiral sequence, layback, f-camel. I think she said this was her 1st competition after 1-2 years of being off the ice or something, to the lady sitting next to me.

It was an open judging event which means the judges had scorecards, and I have actual tech/presentation marks to post up next!

[adrianchew]

1 - Emily Hughes (SCNY)
Tech - 5.3 5.1 5.2 5.1 4.7 4.8 4.9 4.6 4.8
Pres - 5.3 5.2 5.3 5.1 4.5 4.6 4.9 4.4 5.0

2 - Leah Agler (SCNY)
Tech - 4.6 4.6 4.6 4.3 4.4 4.3 4.4 4.1 4.8
Pres - 5.0 5.1 5.0 5.0 4.7 5.0 5.2 4.4 5.2

3 - Kristina Moore (Washington FSC)
Tech - 4.8 4.1 4.2 4.4 4.2 4.2 4.7 4.3 4.6
Pres - 5.2 4.7 4.8 4.7 4.8 4.7 5.1 4.7 5.1

4 - Kristine Stone (American Academy FSC)
Tech - 4.4 4.3 4.3 4.3 4.2 4.0 4.4 4.0 4.2
Pres - 4.8 4.9 4.8 4.8 4.7 4.4 4.9 4.4 4.8

5 - Katherine Hatford (UDFSC)
Tech - 4.3 4.1 4.6 3.8 4.0 4.2 4.3 4.1 4.5
Pres - 4.7 5.0 5.2 4.9 4.8 4.8 4.8 4.6 5.1

6 - Holly Ponichtera (American Academy FSC)
Tech - 3.5 3.6 3.7 3.6 3.3 3.3 3.6 3.1 3.5
Pres - 4.2 4.5 4.5 4.3 4.0 4.5 4.5 4.2 4.6

7 - Jenny Erika (SCNY)
Tech - 3.3 3.5 3.8 3.3 3.4 3.3 3.5 2.6 3.0
Pres - 4.1 4.5 4.6 4.4 4.4 4.4 4.3 3.9 4.0

8 - Karen Shua-Haim (Garden State SC)
Tech - 3.1 3.6 3.2 3.0 3.0 3.4 3.9 3.3 3.4
Pres - 4.0 4.4 4.3 4.0 4.1 4.3 4.6 4.5 4.4

9 - Sarah Muhl (UDFSC)
Tech - 3.6 3.1 3.4 3.2 3.7 3.4 3.3 2.9 2.6
Pres - 4.3 4.0 4.4 4.1 4.5 4.4 4.3 3.8 4.1

10 - Laurie Krein (SCNY)
Tech - 3.2 3.0 2.9 3.2 3.3 2.9 2.9 2.9 3.3
Pres - 4.0 4.1 4.2 4.2. 4.2 4.3 4.1 4.1 4.2

11 - Jenny Shimburg (Upper Mountain)
Tech - 2.3 3.1 2.9 2.5 2.8 3.0 2.6 2.7 2.4
Pres - 3.5 3.9 4.3 4.4 3.8 4.0 3.8 4.1 4.0

12 - Monica Victoria Marks (SCNY)
Tech - 2.7 2.7 2.8 2.9 2.6 2.2 2.7 2.2 2.3
Pres - 3.8 4.0 4.1 4.2 3.9 4.1 4.0 3.5 3.8

13 - Nikki Gallo (Cantiague FSC)
Tech - 2.6 2.5 2.6 2.7 2.8 2.3 2.3 2.3 2.6
Pres - 3.8 3.9 3.9 3.9 4.1 3.9 3.7 3.7 3.9

14 - Jessica Kleinwaks (SCNY)
Tech - 2.1 2.0 2.0 2.3 2.3 1.5 1.1 1.4 1.8
Pres - 3.7 3.7 3.5 3.7 3.7 3.7 3.5 3.4 3.6

[Arsenette]

Oh wow!! Thanks!!! :D

Now for tomorrow's Freeskate! ;)

[adrianchew]

More notes - the program costs $5 and an adult entry is $5/day. They had boards + plexiglass, and hockey net up - so if you're planning to take pictures, its not a good place.

[Sylvia]

Thanks, Adrian, but where are the ordinals?! ;) Katherine Hadford (with a 'd') won the SP and FS at Skate Cleveland last weekend, so it goes to show you how competitive/deep the Junior ladies are in the East (North and South Atlantics regions alone). So Suzanne McDonald (SCNY) scratched? I was looking forward to seeing her, too.

[adrianchew]

Lauren Maglolia (Springdale FSC) and Suzanne McDonald (SCNY) both scratched. Actually the two most impressive to me personally of the night was Kristine Stone and Emily Hughes. Emily was definitely the fastest skater of the skaters out on the ice I think.

And yes - it was well worth rushing over after work to watch. I'm gonna be there tomorrow evening too for sure! And you gotta teach me sometime how to calculate ordinals!

[Sylvia]

Originally posted by adrianchew
And you gotta teach me sometime how to calculate ordinals!

It's simple but tedious when done by hand. Just add up the tech. and pres. marks for each skater and go vertically down each column (9 judge panel here) and assign 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. from the highest to lowest total score. If there's a tie (in the vertical column, which represents one judge's marks for that skater), the higher tech. mark is the tiebreaker in the SP. Hope this makes sense!

[Arsenette]

Didn't the ordinals come up on the scoresheet - the one that says who won?? That's odd.. that's usually the first thing I see. Weird..

[adrianchew]

Umm they did post them but I was in a hurry go get home and post the reviews, that I just quickly took down the order. Maybe I'll practice ordinals now? LOL ;)

[somechick]

Here are the ordinals...I did this pretty fast so I hope I did everything right!!!!


1 - Emily Hughes (SCNY)
Tech - 5.3 5.1 5.2 5.1 4.7 4.8 4.9 4.6 4.8
Pres - 5.3 5.2 5.3 5.1 4.5 4.6 4.9 4.4 5.0
1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2

2 - Leah Agler (SCNY)
Tech - 4.6 4.6 4.6 4.3 4.4 4.3 4.4 4.1 4.8
Pres - 5.0 5.1 5.0 5.0 4.7 5.0 5.2 4.4 5.2
3 2 3 2 2 2 3 4 1

3 - Kristina Moore (Washington FSC)
Tech - 4.8 4.1 4.2 4.4 4.2 4.2 4.7 4.3 4.6
Pres - 5.2 4.7 4.8 4.7 4.8 4.7 5.1 4.7 5.1
2 5 5 4 3 4 2 2 3

4 - Kristine Stone (American Academy FSC)
Tech - 4.4 4.3 4.3 4.3 4.2 4.0 4.4 4.0 4.2
Pres - 4.8 4.9 4.8 4.8 4.7 4.4 4.9 4.4 4.8
4 3 4 3 4 5 4 5 5

5 - Katherine Hatford (UDFSC)
Tech - 4.3 4.1 4.6 3.8 4.0 4.2 4.3 4.1 4.5
Pres - 4.7 5.0 5.2 4.9 4.8 4.8 4.8 4.6 5.1
5 4 2 5 5 3 5 3 4

6 - Holly Ponichtera (American Academy FSC)
Tech - 3.5 3.6 3.7 3.6 3.3 3.3 3.6 3.1 3.5
Pres - 4.2 4.5 4.5 4.3 4.0 4.5 4.5 4.2 4.6
7 6 7 6 9 7 6 8 6

7 - Jenny Erika (SCNY)
Tech - 3.3 3.5 3.8 3.3 3.4 3.3 3.5 2.6 3.0
Pres - 4.1 4.5 4.6 4.4 4.4 4.4 4.3 3.9 4.0
8 7 6 7 7 9 8 11 9

8 - Karen Shua-Haim (Garden State SC)
Tech - 3.1 3.6 3.2 3.0 3.0 3.4 3.9 3.3 3.4
Pres - 4.0 4.4 4.3 4.0 4.1 4.3 4.6 4.5 4.4
10 8 9 11 10 8 7 6 7

9 - Sarah Muhl (UDFSC)
Tech - 3.6 3.1 3.4 3.2 3.7 3.4 3.3 2.9 2.6
Pres - 4.3 4.0 4.4 4.1 4.5 4.4 4.3 3.8 4.1
6 9 8 9 6 6 9 7 10

10 - Laurie Krein (SCNY)
Tech - 3.2 3.0 2.9 3.2 3.3 2.9 2.9 2.9 3.3
Pres - 4.0 4.1 4.2 4.2. 4.2 4.3 4.1 4.1 4.2
9 10 11 8 8 10 10 9 8

11 - Jenny Shimburg (Upper Mountain)
Tech - 2.3 3.1 2.9 2.5 2.8 3.0 2.6 2.7 2.4
Pres - 3.5 3.9 4.3 4.4 3.8 4.0 3.8 4.1 4.0
13 11 10 12 13 11 12 10 12

12 - Monica Victoria Marks (SCNY)
Tech - 2.7 2.7 2.8 2.9 2.6 2.2 2.7 2.2 2.3
Pres - 3.8 4.0 4.1 4.2 3.9 4.1 4.0 3.5 3.8
11 12 12 10 12 12 11 13 13

13 - Nikki Gallo (Cantiague FSC)
Tech - 2.6 2.5 2.6 2.7 2.8 2.3 2.3 2.3 2.6
Pres - 3.8 3.9 3.9 3.9 4.1 3.9 3.7 3.7 3.9
12 13 13 13 11 13 13 12 11

14 - Jessica Kleinwaks (SCNY)
Tech - 2.1 2.0 2.0 2.3 2.3 1.5 1.1 1.4 1.8
Pres - 3.7 3.7 3.5 3.7 3.7 3.7 3.5 3.4 3.6
14 14 14 14 14 14 14 14 14

[Arsenette]

Thanks!!!

Now I'm pushing it.. Do you know the judges? :oops: ;)

[adrianchew]

No. 4 I believe was Lucy Brennan, and I don't remember the rest. ;)

And no, I don't *know* the judges in that way. :P

[Lark]

I am going to ask a couple of questions, because I have very little (uhm, NO) knowledge of these things.
These girls are trying to qualify to go to Junior Nationals, is that correct?
Is there any proof, out of curiousity, if being Sarahs sister has had any effect, either good or bad, on Emily, her skating, the attention she gets, has it helped her confidence, do the judges pay more attention to her, etc.? Obviously, she did great.
How old are these girls in general? I am assuming 11-14?

[adrianchew]

No - its confusing - but its called the Middle Atlantic Figure Skating Championships, but its not really a USFSA qualifying event - its a club competition with a "grand" name.

I'd say the girls in Junior are probably more 13-16? Not sure of ages, but I think Emily is just 13? And what scores she did get tonight were all out of her own efforts, and not in any way related to her sister.

[Lark]

Thanks Adrian!
My goodness! :oops: I swore that I at least understood that this had something to do with Junior Nationals! LOLOLOLOL :idea: I thought I was safe there.
I had heard that Emily was quite inconsistant. That is why I was surprised, but happy, that she won. I guess I cannot believe everything I hear! It would be really neat to see her compete with Sarah, but we have a ways to go there.
I was also shocked to see some of those scores! 1.1! I obviously have never watched anything but Seniors. I wish that Junior events were televised. Are they ever?

[adrianchew]

Lark - tell us where you live - which city. We'll help find you a local club competition so you can go see for yourself how its done/like. ;)

And normally they don't post the scores, but this particular round they were doing it. And its not Junior Nationals - its a club competition! ;)

I sure wish they'd pick a less confusing name for it.

On - and Junior Nationals are up to Intermediates, but Nationals (senior Nationals) has Novice, Junior and Senior skaters. ;)

[Lark]

Wait, Emily just won the SP? When is the LP? I am lost. 8O

[adrianchew]

Friday evening! I can't wait! :lol:

[Lark]

Thanks again Adrian.
I am in Danville, IL. I get to Champaigne and Indianapolis occasionally, and would be interested in anything, even though the first couple dozen shows I would be drooling with lostness.

[Lark]

Originally posted by adrianchew

On - and Junior Nationals are up to Intermediates, but Nationals (senior Nationals) has Novice, Junior and Senior skaters. ;) HUH?!?!?!?!?! Adrian, I think there needs to be a whole 'nuther topic explaining that! :? :!: 8O

[adrianchew]

You missed the Indy Challenge? :x

We definitely will remind you next year - has good Senior level pairs teams there too!

http://www.usfsa.org/events_results/club_events.htm

That's the page to go to for the club events/competitons on the USFSA site, that most people ignore! And yes, once in a while you get a really good turnout. The Junior ladies event list looked good for this event and sure enough it was.

[Lark]

Thanks Adrian. I saved that to my Favorites, and will look over it with a fine tooth comb. :)

[Sylvia]

Originally posted by Lark
HUH?!?!?!?!?! Adrian, I think there needs to be a whole 'nuther topic explaining that! :? :!: 8O

Here ya go, Lark:
http://www.skatingforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2268

[Trillian]

Originally posted by adrianchew
I'd say the girls in Junior are probably more 13-16?

That's a more typical age range for juniors, yeah. Emily is about 13; Leah is (I think) around 14 or 15; Kristine Stone is, what, 16 or so now? Katie Hadford is 12 or 13 now. (I know she's too young for international junior competition, so she wasn't yet 13 on July 1st anyway.) I'm not sure about the other girls in this event, but our junior national medalists last year were 15, 16, and 17 respectively (a slightly older podium than usual), with two 13-year-olds right behind them.

[Arsenette]

Kristine Stone Cruz is 18 in October ;)

[sk8pr1mom]

1. Marie Pearce, Alpharetta, GA
2. Kevin M. Elvin, Hilsborogh, NC
3. Scott P. Cormier, Providence RI
4. Lucy J. Brennan, NY, NY
5. Kathleen McBride, San Francisco, CA
6. Shawn Rettstatt, NY, NY
7. Coco Gram Shean, NY , NY
8. Robert Rosembluth, NY, NY
9. Taffy Holliday, Greenwich, CT

this was the panel, I thought a very good one!!;)

[Lark]

I notice that 4 of the judges are from NY. Is there any chance that there is a NY judging bloc? I know how silly that sounds, but just an observation.
The Top 2 in the SP are NY skaters.
And I am not making allegations. As I am new to this scene, I am not sure if this has been a concern/topic before. :D

[Ellyn]

Originally posted by Lark
I notice that 4 of the judges are from NY. Is there any chance that there is a NY judging bloc? I know how silly that sounds, but just an observation.
The Top 2 in the SP are NY skaters.
And I am not making allegations. As I am new to this scene, I am not sure if this has been a concern/topic before. :D


This is a NY club competition held in NY, so naturally the club will want to use as many local judges as possible, and more local skaters would be likely to enter than skaters from distant locations.

According to Adrian's report, E. Hughes won this short program because she landed all her jumps and everyone else messed up at least one. That does count for a lot in the short program.

The real question would be 2nd vs. 3rd place, a NY skater vs. a Washington skater, since the successful jump content was the same and Moore attempted a harder combination than Agler. Having seen those two skaters compete once or twice each, that result doesn't surprise me just because I would expect Agler's exceptionally beautiful spins and spirals to gain her extra credit, even though I don't know how they compared technically at this event other than what Adrian reported.

But the ordinals for those two skaters are mixed, and more to the point, are mixed among the NY judges. Two of the NY judges had Agler ahead of Moore, and two of them had Moore ahead of Agler. So obviously there was no conspiracy of all the NY judges to hold up the NY skater. You'd have to get a lot more convoluted than just making the NY connection to come up with a conspiracy theory here, so why bother? If you try hard enough you can make up consipracy theories about any results, but you'd still just be making it up.

[adrianchew]

Note - I was getting more distracted towards the end when Moore and Agler were skating - had kids asking me who was ahead after some skaters had skates and I was trying to take notes, watch skating, and count up marks... wish I had taken more notes on the differences between the top girls.

I'll try tonight. Also I'm still pretty new to note taking and I think I've about gotten the jumps and most spins figured out (I can't figure out what to call some of the more unique positions yet though!).

Also watching through the hockey net and from higher up in the bleachers with my yet untrained eyes, its much harder for me to tell errors such as under-rotated jumps and a flutz, although I've figured out what the takeoff edge should be/look like now for a proper lutz.

There's a whole bunch of other variables - height/distance of jumps, difficulty of in-between elements, difficulty of entry into jumps (eg. out of footwork, turns, etc.), centering/position in spins, etc. A true judge will also know what are required elements, and have to count the revolutions in spins in the SP.

The newbie's best friend IMO is the Technical Figure Skating website (credits go to Spinner for sharing it with me)...

http://nsn.nslsilus.org/eakhome/skating/kevinnew/

Its been harder for me to differentiate jumps amongst ladies than it is for mens... usually the jumps from men are stronger, with cleaner technique and less cheating, making it much easier to identify. The flip and the toe is about the two jumps I kept confusing totally at first, and I still have to watch the feet on takeoff to tell for sure.

Then you get the Todd Eldredge's of the world, CCW (counter clock-wise) jumpers... fun fun fun as they use a different entry leg... the takeoff/landing edge is still the same.

So yes the larger masses of skating fans are pretty much somewhat clueless when it comes to really being able to tell technical elements and judging... not all parents of skaters even have it figured out fully. And I've been told one of the better ways to learn is to take up the sport recreationally... umm, :oops: I've been so busy with the boards, and work, and attending a bunch of skating events, etc - that I haven't done what I initially set out to do this year (take up some adult lessons!).

And the one think I've learned is to always ask, when in doubt... that's the only way to learn.

[Trillian]

Originally posted by Lark
I notice that 4 of the judges are from NY. Is there any chance that there is a NY judging bloc? I know how silly that sounds, but just an observation.
The Top 2 in the SP are NY skaters.

Well, as Ellyn has already pointed out, those results are probably deserved. I haven't seen Hughes or Moore skate, but if Agler and Moore had comparable jump content I don't find it at all hard to believe Agler got the edge--I've seen her skate and everything in between the jumps is beautiful.

Club competitions tend to use a lot of local judges, and it's not at all silly to think that they're sometimes biased in favor of local skaters. That often comes up in discussions of the results, though how much it actually happens is debatable. However, I don't think any local bias is entirely intentional--those are usually the skaters the judges see more often, and often they'll know the kids and like them, so it's only natural that they'd tend to go with the skaters they know in a toss-up.

[Ruth215]

Adrian -

I was at Midatlantics last night too - wish I'd checked these boards in advance as I would have met up with you and introduced myself. I would have liked to personally thank you for all you have done to keep me well informed and in touch with other skating fans over the years. It has been much appreciated.

I agree with your reviews on Junior Ladies - Emily Hughes and Leah Agler were definitely the best performances of the evening.

Just an added note about the viewing - while we had a tough time seeing through the hockey boards and netting, I understand that the Judges do not have an unobstructed view either. I heard complaints that their seats were not high enough and they had trouble viewing the corners. With that in mind, I think they did a very good job under difficult circumstances.

Enjoy the rest of Mids - I am going out of town but will be checking here for your reviews.

Thanks again.

Ruth in NYC

[Ellyn]

Originally posted by Trillian
Club competitions tend to use a lot of local judges, and it's not at all silly to think that they're sometimes biased in favor of local skaters. That often comes up in discussions of the results, though how much it actually happens is debatable. However, I don't think any local bias is entirely intentional--those are usually the skaters the judges see more often, and often they'll know the kids and like them, so it's only natural that they'd tend to go with the skaters they know in a toss-up.

I agree that this kind of bias undoubtedly does exist . . . and we're all guilty of it, non-judges probably much more than judges. But there's a big difference between individual local/national bias and "a judging bloc" (implying some sort of collusion) as Lark asked about.

[roogu]

I wonder what it feels like to skate when your sister is the reigning Olympic Champion! LOL!! THere's gotta be a certain confidence there.

[vesperholly]

Does anyone have Novice Ladies results? Especially qualifying. I'm looking for Sascha Potter's placement (from Amherst SC). Thanks!

Jocelyn

[Lark]

Originally posted by Ellyn
You'd have to get a lot more convoluted than just making the NY connection to come up with a conspiracy theory here, so why bother? If you try hard enough you can make up consipracy theories about any results, but you'd still just be making it up.
I think you could have left out the last paragraph when answering me.
I simply asked if that sort of thing happens. I know nothing about these particular comps.
You made a lot of really good points in your reply, Ellyn, and I appreciate someone with your obvious knowledge replying to me.
I just wish you could have not insinuated that I was running around yelling "the sky is falling". :?

[figure8girl]

Hey,
Is there anyone going to watch the Novice Ladies, Junior Ladies, and Senior Ladies at Mid-Atlantics? If you are can you please tell me what they did? Thank You:)

[BootyDancer]

Originally posted by roogu
I wonder what it feels like to skate when your sister is the reigning Olympic Champion! LOL!! THere's gotta be a certain confidence there.

Actually, not to start anything, but it sounds like Emily deservedly won that night. However, I would think that there's a lot of pressure for someone like Emily. Can you imagine being a somewhat inconsistent skater and having your sister be the Olympic champion? People just sort of assume that Emily will be a great skater too. And that rarely happens. Her sister's legacy is a lot to live up to.

[haribobo]

I don't think Ellyn was trying to be rude or put anyone down. I found her comments to be not only acceptable, but central to explaining her main point. Questioning if the panel was bloc judging is a serious subject, and especially so when there is no evidence to back it up. Judges in general take so much abuse on these boards (and sometimes, rightly so!), that it's nice to see someone coming to their defense when they do their job correctly. I was rather surprised that anyone would have the idea that there would be a conspiracy at this competition, but I would be far less surprised if it actually did look like all the New York judges were voting together, which they were not. Just make sure you have the information before you post...

[BlackNBlue]

Does anyone know how the Jr. Ladies did tonight in the freeskate? I'm really anxious to hear...:?:

[adrianchew]

I'll be posting a full review in a few minutes. Ok - Emily won - and deservedly so (wasn't all 1st place ordinals, but I certainly thought she deserved it totally). And the Emily Hughes we're seeing now is a much improved version of the Emily that was at US Nationals earlier this year. 8O

[BootyDancer]

Sorry haribobo, I actually wasn't referring to ellyn's post, I was more so commenting on the comment made about having Sarah as a sister would make Emily more confident. And I think that it would actually put a greater burden on her. That was my only thought. Didn't mean to offend or confuse. But I think it's great to see that Emily had such a great weekend. Inconsistency at competition is the worst difficulty for most skaters to overcome. Hopefully this is a foreshadow of Emily's season!

[Lark]

I am thrilled Emily won. I have yet to see her skate, and I am hoping I may get a chance someday soon if she keeps up the great work! :P

[haribobo]

And sorry, BootyDancer-- I actually wasn't responding to your post, I was responding to Lark...who told Ellyn her comments were unnecessary. Guess I should have written that in the post....

As for your post on Emily, BootyDancer, your comments made a lot of sense and I agree wholeheartedly. I myself might find it tough motivate myself if my older sister already won the whole shebang! :p

[ncurrie40]

Im new sorry to post such a long one as my first:


In order (and I cannot recall how it realy came out)

Christine Moore -- She opened with a slightly scrapy DA. She stumbled
stepped out of a Triple Flip and/or according to my notes it was so
poorly two-footed as to not count at all. Zilch on the Flip. Then she
did a triple sal/double toe which was okay, and a really good TT --
real and long delay. Most of her in between skating was poor
especially the footwork sequences in the final part. She tried a
triple loop and despite whipping around stayed on one foot. She did
one of those slow crumples on her next DA.

I was fairly impressed to see her try four triples in an early season
junior event. Weak choregoraphy and lots of awkward steps, but not
unusually bad posture. Stood three triples. 4.7/4.5

Katherine Hadford -- she appeared to be the youngest of the final
group and the most precious in her get-up and attitude, very Trisha
Walker. Virtually all her jumps were short of full rotation. She
started off with a DA which was enough okay it got a check mark and
no comment on my notes; then she did a TT/TT combo the first jumped
looked alright, but the second was way underrotated and two-footed;
she did a triple loop that had zero height and didn't get all the way
around. Fake-elegant arm movements and studied little poses. She did
have some good spins, particularly Biellmann's but did not hold any
of them out nearly long enough. Another DA; she fell out and around
from her triple salchow which I assume was underotated causing said
stumble steps. Oh she fell on a Lutz back in the middle of the
program. So she did really only one complete triple, the toe-loop.
Again, quite a good spinner. 4.2/4.8

Emily Hughes -- She's really tall. Opened with a layback which had a
great position for the four rotations she had time in the music to
show us. She does look like her sister, so it was off putting at
first. The crowd had followed her every move in the warm-up which
made me afraid she'd leave it all there. She takes her time, which I
admire greatly. Long set up for the DA, not exactly telegraphed since
she waits a long time on a fairly speedy running edge, then a
determinied step forward in that crouchy position Sarah does, and up -
-- nice in the air and solid landing. Textbook TT/DT -- nice delay on
first, nice stretch back and really up and across the ice on second.
She did leave the triple Lutz in warm-up as I'd feared. This one was
slightly two-foot, maybe enough to reduce its credit down to
practically zero, but the Lutz position was good, and she kept on
that outer very well indeed. Another "I'm getting this technicque
right if it's the last thing I do" DA landed well.

It kind of drizzled from there, she badly pop'd her triple Flip;
there was no "fly" in the flying camel; she tried the flip again but
it was a super bad two-foot that forced her to stumble step out. It
was a good skate overall; the music is a bit too dramatic (What is it
with these Hughes' kids and their sparkling and charming
grandiousity?). She landed only one triple that fully counted, and I
slammed her for it. 4.5/5.0

Leah Agler -- tallish, thin, ballet style body exentuated with a not
that ugly looking hair bun. THIS GIRL DID A GENUINE FOREWARD OUTER
FLYING SIT SPIN. She got the jump part nearly right the spin leg was
all the way up under her, but the soon to be free-leg was slightly
out. She hit the ice spinning very well, no struggle, but she didn't
quite get down enough in the sit position. I nearly fell out of my
seat when she did it.

Anyways, she open with a pretty camel/ch/camel the back camel being
particularly nice. Good to excellent posture, but she is not that
aggressive in her stroking. She singled her openning DA; she did an
okay double Lutz right into a triple toe attempt that she stood up on
but it was underotated; next was a bad pop on her triple salchow. She
landed a triple toe but it was a weird landing. She did another DA
which was a fairly good one.

This program was filled with all sorts of nice touches. There were
two moments where did some breathtaking arm movements, very subtle
and amost moving. The program was also **as a skate** uneven. 4.4/4.7

The final skater was Kristina Stone who looks alot like Deanna
Stellato. She had the best program layout with movements that really
went with the music all the way from start to finsih. She jumps
clockwise. But she didn't land a thing. Doubled everything, managed
one DA, fell on a triple toe. Good run and good speed across the ice
for this level. 3.8/4.6


Placements

1. Emily Hughes 4.5 5.0
2. Kristina Moore 4.7 4.5
3. Leah Agler 4.4 4.7
4. Katherine Hadford 4.2 4.8
5. Kristina Stone 3.8 4.6

[ChicaTica]

Originally posted by adrianchew
No - its confusing - but its called the Middle Atlantic Figure Skating Championships, but its not really a USFSA qualifying event - its a club competition with a "grand" name.



Hi everyone!

I just wanted to point out that Middle Atlantics is the oldest non-qualifying competition in the country. It is a very prestigous competition and actually, in the rule book there are separate rules that govern the competition. The "local" judges that this competition pulls in are World, International and National judges. The NY metropolitan area happens to have an over-representation of high-ranking judges, and knowing these judges personally, I wouldn't fear any type of judging regional bias. On the Junior ladies event alone, there were 3 World judges--including Lucy Brennan, who is arguably the most respected judge in the nation!

Hope to see some of you tonight at Mids,
:) ChicaTica :)

[Lark]

Originally posted by ChicaTica
Hi everyone!

I just wanted to point out that Middle Atlantics is the oldest non-qualifying competition in the country. It is a very prestigous competition and actually, in the rule book there are separate rules that govern the competition. The "local" judges that this competition pulls in are World, International and National judges. The NY metropolitan area happens to have an over-representation of high-ranking judges, and knowing these judges personally, I wouldn't fear any type of judging regional bias. On the Junior ladies event alone, there were 3 World judges--including Lucy Brennan, who is arguably the most respected judge in the nation!

Hope to see some of you tonight at Mids,
:) ChicaTica :) Wow, thanks for the history a little bit.
I lovvvvveee to learn as much as I can about skating, and I obviously know nothing about anything but Seniors, quite honestly.
But, I do want to reitterate that I did not mean that I thought anything was fishy in the judging.
I was asking if anything like that has ever happened in a smaller competition. I feel that several people are getting the idea that I was "blaming" the judges for something when in fact I was simply inquiring about things I know nothing about.
Again, thanks for the tidbits, Chica. :D

[adrianchew]

Originally posted by ChicaTica

I just wanted to point out that Middle Atlantics is the oldest non-qualifying competition in the country.

Should have known - the 76th Annual... is supposed to be a dead giveaway! :roll: