Indian Pair Skaters Debut

[Isk8NYC]

Someone posted this video on YouTube. The skaters are the first Indian pairs skating team. They're just starting out, they don't have ISU profiles yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSV0Ei8GlsU

http://www.isufs.org/events/cat00005603.htm

[renatele]

Very interesting! Is this (http://www.4a-att.org/National/news/ev200305_SJAAHM.html) the same girl? From what I see on the 'net, she's an accomplished Indian Classical dancer; must not have been easy to put herself out like this.

[Isk8NYC]

I don't know if that's the same person, I couldn't find a bio on the skaters.

Someone on the ISU forum said that this team trained on roller-skates. Her figure skates sure looked new and stiff. There was one other Indian skater that I saw in the results of those comps. They didn't place well, but good for them for trying!

I just found this article (http://66.218.69.11/search/cache?p=skating+upadhyay+saldanha&ei=UTF-8&fr=slv8-wave&x=wrt&u=www.indiavarta.com/yes/News.asp%3FTopic%3D3%26Title%3DSports%26ID%3DIFY20 060707060645%26nDate%3D%26Sub%3D&w=skating+upadhyay+saldanha&d=YWaxzJIFNv-y&icp=1&.intl=us) which profiles the young man. It says the pair were going to Taipei for roller skating, not ice skating.
Wonder if that's the interviewer's mistake or if they had never been on ice skates before?
(If that was their first time on ice, WOW!)

[renatele]

The pair on roller skates (http://www.thehinduimages.com/hindu/photoDetail.do?photoId=8904043)

[phoenix]

Awww, makes me want to go over there to be a coach!! I wonder where there are even rinks in India--did you notice--she's got her laces wrapped around her ankle 8O . No one's even taught them to lace/tie their skates correctly!

[renatele]

Not sure... there might be in the North perhaps - closer to Himalayas?

[Isk8NYC]

They took a page out of Texas' book and put an ice rink in the Mall (http://www.telegraphindia.com/1060521/asp/calcutta/story_6249999.asp).
(In Calcutta, no less)

[sceptique]

Well, it was a brave dash. The guys are certainly very new to ice skating and putting themselves for an international competition takes lots of guts.

But this actually made me wonder about another matter - is there a particular reason why children of indian origin do not take ice skating? I can imagine, lack of facilities might be a problem in India, but what about US and UK? I remember a few kids in "learn to skate", but they don't seem to stay for long. And I'm pretty sure there are lots of indian families where money is not the issue, yet.... Why would a community with such deep traditions in performing arts and dance be so "cold" towards ice skating? Any thoughts?

[renatele]

But this actually made me wonder about another matter - is there a particular reason why children of indian origin do not take ice skating? I can imagine, lack of facilities might be a problem in India, but what about US and UK? I remember a few kids in "learn to skate", but they don't seem to stay for long. And I'm pretty sure there are lots of indian families where money is not the issue, yet.... Why would a community with such deep traditions in performing arts and dance be so "cold" towards ice skating? Any thoughts?

Well... ice skating is not one of their traditions ;) and many Indian families tend to live as close a lifestyle to traditional Indian as possible. That would explain why kids are not encouraged to take up ice skating. I don't think they'd be necessarily forbidden, but parents will rarely take a step to introduce them to skating.

We in US (in general) have enough money to take up any sport; yet you don't see that many sumo wrestlers here ;) (yeah, silly point)

[mikawendy]

I imagine they must have been TERRIFIED on the warmup ice given the difference in the speed of their skating compared with the others in their group.

[flippet]

Wonder if that's the interviewer's mistake or if they had never been on ice skates before?
(If that was their first time on ice, WOW!)
I'm guessing that was basically their first time on ice.

The photo of them on roller skates looks like they know what they're doing to a reasonable extent, and the article I could pull up made it sound like they can roller skate to a certain level of difficulty.

The mistakes they made look like a combination of nerves, and really stiff skates. (And, of course, they were probably skating 'up' to junior level by at least a couple of levels to begin with.)

Regardless, that really takes guts. Good for them!

[Bella]

I'm just a little confused as to how they got entered into the competition in the first place. I know in Canada, there are many levels and tests you have to pass before you'd even be allowed to attend that high a level of competition. Do they just not have these levels and rules in India? Is the federation allowed to just pick whomever they want to go to such competition regardless of any previous experience? It's interesting!

[dbny]

But this actually made me wonder about another matter - is there a particular reason why children of indian origin do not take ice skating? I can imagine, lack of facilities might be a problem in India, but what about US and UK? I remember a few kids in "learn to skate", but they don't seem to stay for long. And I'm pretty sure there are lots of indian families where money is not the issue, yet.... Why would a community with such deep traditions in performing arts and dance be so "cold" towards ice skating? Any thoughts?

I've had quite a few Indian students in my learn to skate classes in Brooklyn.

[jazzpants]

Well, they would be competitive in Adult Bronze Pairs at least! :P :lol: (C'mon over to Adults Nationals, guys!!!)

Why would a community with such deep traditions in performing arts and dance be so "cold" towards ice skating? Any thoughts?I can hedge a guess: Very SHORT figure skating skirts! The culture is such that you kinda have to be careful not to show skin of any form. Since now the ISU relax the rules about wearing pants (:bow: to the ISU for finally coming to their sense! :P ) they're more comfortable with the option of dress and decided to give it a go.

[Virtualsk8r]

I believe that Emanual Sandu is of Indian origin. His father is Indian and his mother Italian, I think....... Imagine the profile he would give Indian skating if he switched from Canada to India in 2010.....

There have been a number of skaters with Indian parentage at all levels in Canada and I am sure in the USA - but we don't think of them as Indian...just as fellow competitors and clubmates.

[Isk8NYC]

Well... ice skating is not one of their traditions ;) and many Indian families tend to live as close a lifestyle to traditional Indian as possible. That would explain why kids are not encouraged to take up ice skating. I don't think they'd be necessarily forbidden, but parents will rarely take a step to introduce them to skating.I have a few indian and pakistani students. They're nice kids who listen well in class and pick up maneuvers really fast. I think you're right - out of sight, out of mind. One of the girls went to a classmates' birthday skating party and enjoyed it so much, she and her sister signed up for group lessons.
[The indian] culture is such that you kinda have to be careful not to show skin of any form. Since now the ISU relax the rules about wearing pants (:bow: to the ISU for finally coming to their sense! :P ) they're more comfortable with the option of dress and decided to give it a go.Hadn't thought about that - it explains her black tights in the video. They're probably leggings.

[renatele]

I can hedge a guess: Very SHORT figure skating skirts! The culture is such that you kinda have to be careful not to show skin of any form.

OT, but I always laugh about this (my husband is Indian, btw) - it's perfectly fine to bare her whole fat flabby midriff for a woman in her 50-ies (saris are not exactly covering that part of the body well), but absolutely not ok to show any leg skin above the knee or so ;)

[AnnM]

But this actually made me wonder about another matter - is there a particular reason why children of indian origin do not take ice skating? I can imagine, lack of facilities might be a problem in India, but what about US and UK? I remember a few kids in "learn to skate", but they don't seem to stay for long. And I'm pretty sure there are lots of indian families where money is not the issue, yet.... Why would a community with such deep traditions in performing arts and dance be so "cold" towards ice skating? Any thoughts?

My family is Indian; I was born and raised in the U.S. I took skating lessons for about seven years when I was a kid and returned to it later on as an adult. I haven't come across too many other Indians who skate (even "learn to skate") and I live in one of the most diverse states. My parents are pretty Westernized, so they indulged me when I wanted to take lessons. But they also didn't care much when I wanted to stop.

My thoughts as to why there is't much participation in any type of competitive level is that Indian parents tend to stress academic achievements and academic activities above all other things, i.e. performing arts and/or sports. Given a choice between a sports camp or optional summer school classes, most parents will pressure their kids to choose the academic route in order to get ahead for college apps, etc. Also, given the cost of figure skating once you get beyond "learn to skate", most Indian parents would have the view that the money would be better spent towards a college fund rather than towards coaching --- especially in a first-generation scenario when money is often tight. Another thought is that many of the Indian households I know of have two full-time working parents with odd-timed shifts, which is not conducive to having a child that skates and needs rides to the rink, ballet, etc.

[Isk8NYC]

Thanks for giving us your first-hand viewpoint. The emphasis on education over sport makes perfect sense.

Did you know anything else about this pairs team? I'm really rooting for them now - I love underdogs! (Which is why I don't play the ponies!)

[sunjoy]

That video made me cringe! There are many things that don't make sense to me, like the lady having her laces tied around her ankles. If she's a high-level artistic roller skater, you'd think she'd know better, no? Her leg is bent in her spirals, and that's not a mistake that either a artistic roller skater or a run-of-the-mill dancer would make. What gives?

I don't understand how they qualified to skate at a JGP. It's all very well and good that they're good artistic skaters (if they are) but that doesn't give them the right to take the ice with a world-class Jr-level field!

It's embarassing. Not for the couple, for whose courage and ordeal most *skaters* at least would have sympathy, if not respect, but for the Indian federation.
~~~~~~~~~
As for 2nd generation or later immigrants who skate, meh, I'm sure there are more of us (at low levels) than you'd think. On the one hand, there's the "Bend it like Bekham" stereotype against women showing skin, or doing athletics. On the other hand, when was the last time you went to a disco or frat party in a big city? South-Asian kids aren't all repressed. And plenty of S. Asians take part in beauty pageants requiring swimsuits! Lack of participation at high levels compared to East-Asian immigrants is probably a combination of how difficult skating is, and cultural unfamiliarity compared to music, dance, soccer, track, tennis, martial arts ... Give it time.

Someone should show that video to Sandhu. He's appropriating Asian music, the least he could do is teach a clinic to some South-Asian skaters. :)

[tidesong]

Its so extremely ironic and an almost painful issue for me, that India can get entrance to the ISU (they bothered to spend money on a proper rink) but Singapore can't because no one is giving us a full sized rink here. And yet the skaters here are skating at higher levels than them and yet can't get any exposure to international competitions without representing another country.

Perhaps this is just their first year on the ice and we can hope for better things in the future. I can only wish them the best and hope they take the opportunity to train at their figure skating. I can't tell since I haven't spoken to them, but if they are like any average skater here thats fallen in love with the sport, I believe that we will see things happen.

[Isk8NYC]

I don't think anyone "gave" Bombay the ice rink; it seems to be a for-profit business in a shopping mall. India's made great investments in their infrastructure and business. US outsourcing has been a boon to that country, as has sending students to college abroad. That's probably why the ice rink was built - there's disposable income and young people who've been exposed to, and are interested in, ice sports.

As for ISU entrance, I guess you'd need to check the guidelines of the ISU. I thought that, once a country "qualified" for ISU membership, they could send their top skaters to these events. Remember, this was a Junior event, not a senior round. Maybe as roller skaters, this pair are tops, so perhaps India used that to select their ice skaters. I don't think there's a indian skating federation with formal tests and rules, etc.

I didn't know you were in Singapore. Must be a very interesting place.
Perhaps this might be a business you could look into, if there's demand and money.

[tidesong]

I know that probably no one "gave" them a rink. But it would be that essentially for me if a business decided to open a proper sized rink here (but no body seems inclined to invest). And yes, you just need to qualify for ISU membership to send skaters to this competitions and Singapore doesn't qualify for ISU membership because of the lack of a proper rink.

And I know that its different, because of land and electricity prices as well as an unsuitable climate, its almost insane to go build a full sized rink in Singapore (there is a very small demand compared to other sports even if the small number are very committed to the sport, and for money. No there's no money...)

So I'm well aware of the impossibilities involved. And I am sad. That's all.

[Isk8NYC]

But, doesn't Singapore have a number of air-conditioned shopping malls? A former coworker who visited there frequently (explains the "former" status) had said that she did a lot of shopping.

That's where many hot-climate locations put their rinks, as they did in India. Texas sticks out in my mind, because that's where I first saw a "mall rink." Are those rinks not regulation-sized?

Now you've made me think: perhaps this team's ice rink is tiny compared to the ISU circuit rinks. I would expect that to be a bit overwhelming for a newbie, too.

[tidesong]

Well, Singapore does have malls but none of them want to have a regulation sized figure skating rink in it. The only one that exists in Singapore is far from regulation size. (half the area) As I mentioned, landarea in Singapore is really really expensive.

India must have at least one full sized figure skating rink to qualify for ISU membership, so the skaters might probably have access to that. (I know India is large... so if its in a different part from where they live it would be hard)

[NoVa Sk8r]

India has 3 skating rinks (amazing--1 billion people and only 3 rinks!).

[Isk8NYC]

That's why I thought Bombay was an odd place for an ice rink; my BFF is on her way there for the second time (visiting her DH's family) and she's said repeatedly that there's true poverty in Bombay. I hope she finds it a better place than it was five years ago. I wonder if their sessions are crowded? One of the articles I read mentioned it was a hang-out and have fun spot for young adults.

tidesong - hope skating grows enough to encourage someone to put up a full-size rink for you guys. How do you find other countries to represent?

BTW, land in Manhattan is really expensive, too. I used to skate at Sky Rink when it was on the 16th floor of a building! Nice view, too. Now, Sky Rink has been relocated to some "reclaimed" piers and buildings on the Hudson River. It's a twin-sheet rink that includes other sports' facilities as well. Great use of old, outdated (abandoned?) space and buildings; New York City helped a bit with the finances. You have to have the demand to support the ice rink business. How busy is the Fuji Ice place?

[tidesong]

Fuji Ice palace gets extremely horrendously crowded every weekend and most days during the school holidays, but its extremely quiet during school days in most mornings and afternoons. Quiet during examination period too haha.

Representing other countries? Depends if its the standard track or adult track. For adult... you just fill in an application form for any other club out there which is in the ISU and pay the fees? Standard I don't know but there's a pairs that used to train here that went on to train in the US and is representing taiwan in the junior circuit.

Thanks for the thought.

NoVa Sk8r: That's interesting info (does that make about 400 million people to one rink??) and yeah it must be tough for them to get to skating. Apart from I'm sure skating is very expensive there as it is anywhere.

[AnnM]

That's why I thought Bombay was an odd place for an ice rink; my BFF is on her way there for the second time (visiting her DH's family) and she's said repeatedly that there's true poverty in Bombay. I hope she finds it a better place than it was five years ago. I wonder if their sessions are crowded? One of the articles I read mentioned it was a hang-out and have fun spot for young adults.


To me, it makes sense that one of the rinks is in Bombay. Bombay, like most places in India, does have true poverty. One of the first things a tourist sees when leaving the airport is a large field covered by cardboard shacks that families live in. However, Bombay is also one of the largest and most industrialized cities in India. It's been a financial hub for quite some time. There is a tremendous amount of true wealth as well. Like most of the large cities in India, there is a h-u-g-e gap between the haves and have-nots. Also, Bombay is one of the more westernized cities. Skating attire is probably a lot less scandalous there than in some other parts of India.

I wonder where the other rinks are? I'm guessing that they would be in some of the large cities in the North, like New Delhi, or the "Silicon Valley" of India, Bangalore.