US Junior Champions and Success in Seniors

[Dragonlady]

I've made a list of the Ladies Junior Champions going back to 1980 - 22 skaters, of which exactly one has gone on to be a World Champion - Jill Trenary, one has gone on to be an Olympics Champion - Sarah Hughes, and three have won medals of any colour at Worlds - Kyoko Ina, Hughes and Trenary

2001 Joan Cristobal
2000 Ann Patrice McDonough
1999 Sara Wheat
1998 Sarah Hughes
1997 Andrea Gardiner
1996 Shelby Lyons
1995 Sydne Vogel
1994 Jennifer Karl
1993 Michelle Cho
1992 Caroline Song
1991 Lisa Ervin
1990 Alice Sue Claeys
1989 Kyoko Ina
1988 Dena Galech
1987 Jeri Campbell
1986 Cindy Bortz
1985 Jill Trenary
1984 Allison Oki
1983 Kathryn Adams
1982 Lorilee Pritchard
1981 Jill Frost
1980 Vikki de Vries

I realize that its too soon to tell for Cristobal, Donovan, or even Sara Wheat, but how many of these skaters have won medals at the senior National level?

It seems that success in the junior ranks is no indicator of success in seniors.

[Dustin]

Interesting... Where did you find these results?

Im not an expert on past results, nor do I know where to find past US Nationals results, but besides the obvious Hughes, Ina, Trenary, I don't think many of them have had much success in seniors at all.

[hoptoad]

That is an interesting comparison. Is there a place on-line to find, say, the top five juniors at past US National Championships? I wonder if we would see a lot more senior medalists, or if we would still find relatively little correlation.

[AxelAnnie22]

Interesting, for sure. I would love to see the first five. This would also give us a picture of the field against whom they compete.

So, what happens with these kids? They obviously have the ability to train, the skill, some level of mastery, and some degree of control over their competition nerves.

Do they simply get swamped in Seniors?
Do they get injured?
Do they simply get interested in friends, cars, etc?

I would venture to say that there is a big gap in quality between seniors and juniors. Quality of program (think choreography). Quality of jumps. (think 3/3) Quality of presentation. (think Jenny Kirk - who was World Jr. Champ - and is still playing "catch-up".

Also, there must be something askew in what it takes to qualify in the Jr. Ranks. Because, this SHOULD be a natural progression!

[Dragonlady]

I found the list of winners as part of the 2004 Nationals website at

http://www.atlanta2004.org/event/juniors.htm

There is also a list of past Novice champions and there are even fewer skaters listed there who went on to success as seniors, although if you go back to the early years you'll see Tenley Albright's name and Dorothy Hamill.

[adrianchew]

Add...

2002 Louann Donovan

to the list.

When looking at Junior Champions, the two most important criteria is probably how complete is their repertoire of jumps and age, IMO. Winning the Junior title isn't a true indication - sometimes there are more advanced skaters in the group but in attempting more difficulty and having not so great performances, they placed lower (but have more forward potential).

From what I've read and news going around, the next US Nationals should be rather interesting in the ladies field - tons of ladies in the wings... and I have to say it, as much as my Canadian friends say they have potential ladies in the wings, that pipeline is nothing at all in comparison to the US pipeline! :twisted:

The men are looking pretty good overall too - good skaters at different levels, not as strong to be internationally competitive as the ladies but really good. Pairs is rather "blah" though in the US, and the Canadian teams in the wings seem to have good things coming. Dance - well, I'll leave dance to the "experts" cause I can't judge skill levels in dance for the most part.

[Dustin]

Back past the 80s, a lot of the ladies went on to win nationals, medal at worlds, Olympics, etc.:

1924 Maribel Y. Vinson
1950 Tenley E. Albright
1952 Carol E. Heiss
1959 Laurence R. Owen
1966 Janet Lynn
1979 Elaine Zayak

And there have been a lot of top men coming from Juniors:
1997 Matt Savoie
1996 Timothy Goebel
1993 Michael Weiss
1987 Todd Eldredge
1983 Christopher Bowman
1981 Paul Wylie
1979 James Santee
1978 Brian Boitano
1976 Scott Hamilton
1974 Randy Gardner
1971 David Santee
1968 Kenneth Shelley
1966 John Misha Petkevich
1964 Tim Wood
1962 Thomas Litz
1953 David Jenkins
1952 Ronald Robertson
1948 Hayes Alan Jenkins
1945 Richard T. Button

Many more men than ladies... 8O

[Sylvia]

Tino Eberle has a complete results list of U.S. junior ladies back to 1997 Nationals at:
http://home.snafu.de/eberl/english/archive.htm

You can search for historical results at Skatabase:
http://www.silent-edge.org/skatabase/results/index2.html

Michelle Kwan - 9th in Junior at 1992 US Nationals (6th at her first Senior Nationals in 1993)
Angela Nikodinov - 5th in Junior at 1994 & 1995 Nationals (8th at her first Senior Nationals in 1996)
Beatrisa Liang - 6th in Junior at 2000 Nationals (6th at her first Senior Nationals in 2001 and 9th in 2002)
Naomi Nari Nam - 4th in Junior at 1998 Nationals (2nd in her first Senior Nationals in 1999, 8th in 2000, but her skating future is currently uncertain)

1999 US Nationals was an especially strong year for Junior Ladies:
1st - Sara Wheat (10th, 9th, 12th at 2000-2002 Senior Nationals)
2nd - Sasha Cohen (2nd, injured, 2nd)
3rd - Jennifer Kirk (7th, 4th, 5th)
4th - Elizabeth Kwon (retired after 2001 Nationals due to injury)
5th - Yebin Mok (injured in 2000, 10th, 10th)
6th - Ann Patrice McDonough (Jr. champ in 2000; 7th in her first Senior Nationals in 2001, 6th in 2002)

[Trillian]

Winning the Junior title isn't a true indication - sometimes there are more advanced skaters in the group but in attempting more difficulty and having not so great performances, they placed lower (but have more forward potential).

That's actually very frequently true. Often the skater who wins the junior title will be the one who looks most ready for seniors, for example--the skater who looks the most "finished" at that point. And in a lot of cases, that's also a skater who's not going to get all that much better than they are when they win the junior title, while there are other skaters lower in the group who are rougher around the edges but have a lot more room for improvement.

Here are the top five juniors as far back as I can remember:

2002 - Louann Donovan, Jennifer Don, Felicia Beck, Adriana DeSanctis, Lauren Thomas. Obviously it's too soon to tell how the future will turn out for them.

2001 - Joan Cristobal, Alissa Czisny, Lindsey Weber, Colette Irving, Amber Czisny. It's pretty early to tell with them too, but right now Alissa is probably doing substantially better than the others overall.

2000 - Ann Patrice McDonough, Lisa Nesuda, Katie Orscher, Dirke Baker, Jordana Blesa. This is one instance when the champion has clearly been the strongest of the group in the future, though Katie isn't doing half bad as a pairs skater (and would probably still be pretty competitive in singles too).

1999 - Sara Wheat, Sasha Cohen, Jenny Kirk, Elizabeth Kwon, Ye Bin Mok. Of the four who are still competing, Wheat finished lowest at this year's nationals. The top three were very close--IIRC Wheat and Kirk each had four judges for first; Wheat won based on second place marks and Kirk wound up behind Cohen too because the other five judges all placed her third. However, this was a case when I think the most mature skater at the time won, while the two just behind her who clearly had equal or greater potential have since surpassed her.

1998 - Sarah Hughes, Andrea Aggeler, Erin Pearl, Naomi Nari Nam, Susan Ng. Not much to say about this group. The other four were all talented and were all in the top ten at nationals at least once at the seniro level, but eventually injuries and various other factors took them out.

1997 - (Fuzzy memory here) Andrea Gardiner, Erin Pearl, Morgan Rowe, J. J. Matthews, Jenni Tew--I think. No future senior champs in this group, but Gardiner has had the strongest overall career by far. Matthews is the only other one still competing, and she hasn't qualified for nationals in three seasons as a senior. (She also competed twice more in juniors and never finished higher than 10th.)

Looking at all these lists, with the exception of 1999 when any of three skaters could have won, it seems the junior champion has a better track record against their top contemporaries than people generally realize. Of course, there are also cases of skaters who finish even further down in the standings (like Kwan in 1993) but eventually rise to the top.

Interestingly, despite the lousy track record for novice champs, I've noticed an interesting trend for the top three.

2002 - Danielle Kahle, Natalie Mecher, Lisa Dannemiller.

2001 - Kelsey Drewel, Shanell Noji, Jennifer Don. Don medaled at the junior level this year; Drewel didn't make nationals and Noji missed sectionals due to injury.

2000 - Colette Irving, Amy Bobrick, Louann Donovan. Donovan won juniors this year; Irving has quit and Bobrick hasn't made it back to nationals yet.

1999 - Deanna Stellato, Andrey Chua, Beatrisa Liang. After a brief bit of success for Stellato, Liang has wound up having the most staying power of this group with three successful seasons since then. Stellato quit due to injury; Chua has barely been able to compete since then for the same reason.

1998 - Elizabeth Kwon, Jennifer Markham, Jennifer Kirk. Markham quit due to injury and Kwon did shortly afterward; Kirk has already had international success on the junior and senior levels.

1997 - Naomi Nari Nam, Lisa Nesuda, Ann Patrice McDonough. Nam had her one senior silver medal; Nesuda did win a junior medal. However, McDonough has clearly been the most successful of the group overall.

Don't know about anyone else, but if I were in novice, I'd be happier to win bronze than gold if this is any indication. (It probably isn't, but still food for thought.)

[Lark]

It is really strange that Michelle went from 9th in Juniors straight to 6th in Seniors in one year!
And Sasha could not medal at Junior Worlds, but is winning a Silver at Senior Nationals a few weeks earlier.
So I would say look for the 2006 Olympic Champion somewhere in the middle of the 2003 Junior Worlds pack, ala Oksana, Sarah and Tara, if I am correct.

[Dragonlady]

I have heard one theory that because of sheer numbers, girls burn themselves out winning at the lower levels, but as has been pointed out, for the men, success at juniors is a stepping stone for success at the senior level.

Trillian's comment that placing well at the lower levels seems to be a better indicator than actually winning Nationals at a lower level. With a skater like Kwan or Liang who both made their senior debuts at such young ages, their lower level results are hardly indicators of their long-term potential. It's too soon to tell for Bebe, but in Michelle's case, she would have been 11 or 12 since she made her senior debut at 13.

[rack]

It also makes one appreciate what a skating prodigy Sarah Hughes is- first at junior nationals and second at junior worlds at age 12, fourth at senior nationals and seventh at senior worlds at age 13.

The thing about Sarah is she doesn't have standard prodigy appearance, unlike Naomi Nari Nam who was behind her at juniors and ahead of her at seniors or Elizabeth Kwon who had wow appeal at novices the same year that Sarah won junior nationals. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that Sarah was the tallest of the girls to win juniors in recent years (just watch-it'll turn out the average height of the gold medalists will be six foot two).

Thank you Dragonlady for starting such an interesting thread (and thanks always to Trillian for knowing so much about skating results over the years!).

[Trillian]

Originally posted by rack
It wouldn't surprise me to learn that Sarah was the tallest of the girls to win juniors in recent years (just watch-it'll turn out the average height of the gold medalists will be six foot two).

Sarah wasn't the tallest (I think she was about 5'1"), but she was probably taller than many of the other girls were when they were 12. Keep in mind that she was the youngest junior champ in recent years (ever?). Louann Donovan, this year's champ, is definitely taller, and I think Cristobal is too, but they were both 15 when they won. Andrea Gardiner, who's 5'7" now, was 16 when she won, and I'd bet she's the tallest in recent years. Smallest in the last six or seven years, at least, would probably be Shelby Lyons, who couldn't have been more than 4'10" when she won at age 14 in 1996.

Most novice champs in the same time period have measured under 5'0", though. (They've ranged in age from 11-15.) Notable exceptions are Deanna Stellato, who I believe was listed at exactly 5'0", and Colette Irving, who had to be at least 5'2" and maybe taller. Those, incidentally, were the two 15-year-olds who've won in recent years.

[Ellyn]

Originally posted by Trillian
Sarah wasn't the tallest (I think she was about 5'1"), but she was probably taller than many of the other girls were when they were 12. Keep in mind that she was the youngest junior champ in recent years (ever?).

Carol Heiss must have been 12 when she won juniors in 1952. Was Janet Lynn 12 or 13 in 1966? Anyway, I don't know their birthdays.

BTW, rack, Hughes was 13 already when she won her junior world medal in December 1998.


How are we defining "senior medals"? at Nationals? internationals in general? Olympics and Worlds only?

Off the top of my head, Vogel and Campbell each placed as high as 4th at Nationals (pewter medal) in seniors, and Ervin earned a silver medal in 1993. Vogel and Claeys (skating for Belgium) medaled at major fall internationals (Skate America, Skate Canada). Vogel and Bortz, at least, were junior world champions. I'm not familiar with the records of the early-80s juniors, but I think some of them had similar types of results.

[rack]

No wonder I like Sarah so much- it turns out she's short and old- just like me.

Meanwhile I pulled out the Junior Worlds medalists and they're a mixed bag. Amongst the more famous gold medal winners (Rosalynn, Elaine, Kristi, Yuko, Surya, Michelle, Irina) are quite a few skaters who haven't had comparable success at the senior level- Daria Timoshenko, Elena Ivanova, Kumiko Koiwai, Sydne Vogel to name just a few. The silver medalists haven't done much of anything (slowed down probably by the fact that Lisa Ervin and Susanne Becher were both three time silver medalists and Junko Yaginuma and the aforementioned Elena Ivanova both won it twice, that is, assuming Junko Yaginuma and Yunko Yaginuma are the same person, which, with my luck, they probably aren't), but a handful of the bronze medalists have been quite successful (Elizabeth Manley, Midori Ito, Chen Lu).

I suspect this doesn't prove anything except that you should never assume anything about how a teenager is going to turn out. But it gave me a chance to use aforementioned and to learn that in 1988 two of the three junior worlds medalists were Japanese and the third was Japanese American (and that alone justifies a smiley face).:P

[CanAmSk8ter]

Originally posted by Dragonlady

2001 Joan Cristobal
2000 Ann Patrice McDonough
1999 Sara Wheat
1998 Sarah Hughes
1997 Andrea Gardiner
1996 Shelby Lyons
1995 Sydne Vogel
1994 Jennifer Karl
1993 Michelle Cho
1992 Caroline Song
1991 Lisa Ervin
1990 Alice Sue Claeys
1989 Kyoko Ina
1988 Dena Galech
1987 Jeri Campbell
1986 Cindy Bortz
1985 Jill Trenary
1984 Allison Oki
1983 Kathryn Adams
1982 Lorilee Pritchard
1981 Jill Frost
1980 Vikki de Vries

I realize that its too soon to tell for Cristobal, Donovan, or even Sara Wheat, but how many of these skaters have won medals at the senior National level?


Jill Trenary, obviously; Kyoko Ina, aside from her success in pairs, was 4th at some point- '95?; Lisa Ervin was 2nd in seniors in '93, but of course quit not long after; Shelby Lyons had some success in pairs but isn't skating anymore (she'd only be like 21 or so now)

[habanero]

Originally posted by Dragonlady
I've made a list of the Ladies Junior Champions going back to 1980 - 22 skaters, ............(snip)............. It seems that success in the junior ranks is no indicator of success in seniors.

Quite correct. The goal is to win as a Senior, not as a Junior. While this seems self-evident, the truth is a good track record of appearing at Nationals and placing reasonably well year after year (especially when moving up) is a good indicator.

Skating is like a marathon, not a sprint. You want to keep pace and be in position to "break out" when the time is right. Otherwise, you may either burn out or collect too many injuries to continue.

Things may have been different long ago -- figures was a different type of skill set the skaters had to excel in. While it may be possible to burn out in figures, I doubt that figures caused a lot of injuries which ended careers. Trying to get a jump ready too soon is much more risky.

[miki_tan]

Do skaters in USA who have passed Senior test always compete as Senior at Nationals?

In Japan, there is many skaters who have passed 7 class(equivalent to Senior) test
compete as Junior(or even Novice) at Nationals. One reason is that JSF use minimum
age limit. Other reason may be that placement of Junior Nationals is used to decide
Junior worlds and next season's JGP members.

[Trillian]

Originally posted by miki_tan
Do skaters in USA who have passed Senior test always compete as Senior at Nationals?

Yes--it's a rule.

There are very few instances in which a skater can compete down a level after passing a test. A pairs skater who has passed a test can skate one level below if their partner hasn't passed the test and they have never actually competed at the level of the highest test passed. (For instance, Jeremy Allen passed his senior pairs test while training with Shelby Lyons, but he was allowed to compete as a junior in 2000-01 because he never competed at the senior level and his new partner, Debbie Blinder, hadn't taken her senior test.) In rare cases a skater has been allowed to enter a club (non-USFSA) event at the junior level so the USFSA can decide whether to send them to junior internationals, even if they've already tested to seniors. (Christie Moxley & Tom Gaasbeck competed at Lake Placid as juniors in 1999 after having been in seniors at nationals that year.) But other than that, if you've passed a test, you skate at that level.

[Louis]

The post-compulsory figures trend in U.S. ladies skating is to move up to seniors as fast possible. Take a look at the ages at which the top U.S. skaters first competed at senior Nationals.

Liang - 12
Kwan - 12
Lipinski - 13
Hughes - 13
Nam - 13
Bobek - 14
Cohen - 15
Kirk - 15
Nikodinov - 15

Now take a look at the ages of the U.S. junior champions when they won their titles.

Donovan - 15.5
Cristobol - 15
McDonough - 14.5
Wheat - 14.5
Hughes - 12.5
Gardiner - 16
Lyons - almost 15
Vogel - 15

The eventual world team members aren't staying in juniors long enough to medal. If Cohen or Kirk had decided to compete in juniors in 2000, they would have won, but junior national medals aren't that important in the U.S. Skaters can get to Junior Worlds and the JGP even if they compete as seniors, so there's really no incentive to stay in juniors.

Winning the junior title doesn't seem to have as much to do with lack of success on the senior level as does moving up after age 15. Since the end of the skaters who had to compete compulsory figures at the senior level, I don't believe there has been any female skater to make the U.S. world team who wasn't competing as a senior by the time she was 15.

[Ellyn]

Originally posted by Louis
Bobek - 14


Actually, Bobek also competed as a senior in 1991, when she was 13.

[Dragonlady]

Louis, you just put a whole new twist on this discussion. I had never thought to look at that set of stats.

[Mazurka Girl]

Good topic & very interesting discussion. I think I'll sleep on it & come back another day. :)

[Lark]

Dragonlady, I must say that this is one of the most interesting topics I have seen in a long time. Thanks for starting it.
My question: Is it possible that the Ladies who stay in Juniors too long are simply burning themselves out on competitions that really mean nothing in the long run?
Or could it be a sign that the true competitors want to compete with the best there are, so they jump Junior "ship" to find, in their minds, more worthy competition? Hey, I would rather place 5th to Michelle, Sarah, Sasha, and Jenny, than defeat Jane Doeshelvik in the Juniors.
Plus, financially, it is better to be 3X Senior Ladies National Pewter Medalist than it is to be Junior World Champion. Look at Jenny, Angela, etc. They get invites to the big Fluff competittions that pay cash and exposure.

[Dragonlady]

Louis' comments really picqued my interest so I had a look at the list of Jr. World Champions to see how many of these girls went on to serious success as seniors. What a contrast to the US list:

1980 Rosalyn Sumners USA
1981 Tiffany Chin USA
1982 Janina Wirth GDR
1983 Simone Koch GDR
1984 Karin Hendschke GDR
1985 Tatiana Andreeva URS
1986 Natalia Gorbenko URS
1987 Cindy Bortz USA
1988 Kristi Yamaguchi USA
1989 Jessica Mills USA
1990 Yuka Sato JPN
1991 Surya Bonaly FRA
1992 Laetitia Hubert FRA
1993 Kumiko Koiwai JPN
1994 Michelle Kwan USA
1995 Irina Slutskaia RUS
1996 Elena Ivanova RUS
1997 Sydne Vogel USA
1998 Julia Soldatova RUS
1999 Daria Timoshenko RUS
2000 Jennifer Kirk USA
2001 Kristina Oblasova RUS

Five World Champions, two others who won medals at Worlds, but only one Olympic Gold Medalist. Interesting that Michelle Kwan never won the US Jr. Championships, but she did win Jr. Worlds.

[A.H.Black]

My friends and I have been discussing this for years. Until Sarah Hughes, it has seemed almost like the kiss of death to win Juniors. I remember when Sara Wheat won in 1999, ahead of Jenny Kirk, and Sasha Cohen, who were both quite disapointed. I just kind of shook my head and thought it was probably a blessing in disguise.

On the other hand, if we can discuss the men for a minute, winning junior nationals or Junior worlds seems almost to be a prerequisite to winning Senior Nationals. Since 1990 for example -

Senior Champions

1990 - Todd Eldredge
1991 - Todd Eldredge
1992 - Christopher Bowman
1993 - Scott Davis
1994 - Scott Davis
1995 - Todd Eldredge
1996 - Rudy Galindo
1997 - Todd Eldredge
1998 - Todd Eldredge
1999 - Michael Weiss
2000 - Michael Weiss
2001 - Tim Goebel
2002 - Todd Eldredge

Every one of these men won Junior Nationals except for Rudy Galindo and he won Junior Worlds. The trend goes back a lot further than 1990 too. It can be extrapolated even further if you look at Olympic medalists. Paul Wylie, for example, won both junior nationals and Jr Worlds. I just think that the men tend to be closer to maturity when they get to seniors than the ladies are.

I also think some of the men are aware of history and plan accordingly. I always thought that one of the reasons Parker Pennington competed as a Junior in 2000 was because he was aware of the importance of that Junior title.

[kar5162]

But Dragonlady, I think what you're saying about success at World Juniors is actually in line with what Louis is saying. Recently the US has been sending 2 Senior ladies and the Junior Champion to Junior Worlds...and the Seniors have been placing higher than the Junior Champion. Before, when Junior Worlds was before Nationals, the US had a second competition in the fall to decide who was going to Junior Worlds. Most of the US Skaters on that list were Seniors in the US when they won Junior Worlds. The female skaters who are winning Juniors often, but not always, are Junior because they don't have all the triples. The kids with the jumps tend to move up (i.e. Beatrisa Liang and Michelle Kwan both competed - and placed 6th - at Senior Nationals when they were 12 - still age elibigle for Juvenile in the US).

[ncurrie40]

The Olympic Champs? Where did they place in juniors: Hughes (1); Lipinski (2); Yamaguchi (2); Hamill (2); Flemming (1).


Notice a trend? From Flemming to the last two Olympic champs -- 1st or 2nd.


World Title Holders -- Kwan (8th?), Thomas(3?4?), Trenary (1), Zayak (1)Fratianne (2), Sumners (Skipped to skate at junior worlds)


Other National Champs/ world medalists -- Chin (2), Kerrigan (4), Lynn (1), Harding (3?4?), Bobek (who cares)


As you can see, the better you do at juniors -- the better you ultimately do.

Neil

[Trillian]

Originally posted by ncurrie40
As you can see, the better you do at juniors -- the better you ultimately do.

Well, here are recent national medalists. I'm going to only include those from the post-figures era because I think things have likely changed since then anyway.

Kwan (also world champ and Olympic medalist) - 9th in 1992
Lipinski (also Olympic and world champ) - 2nd in 1995
Bobek (also world bronze medalist) - I think as high as 4th
Kerrigan (also Olympic and world medalist) - 2nd-4th in 1987
Harding (also world medalist) - no clue
Yamaguchi (also Olympic and world champ) - 2nd-4th in 1987
Hughes (also Olympic champ) - 1st in 1998
Cohen - 2nd in 1999
Nikodinov - 5th in 1994 and 1995
Nam - 4th in 1998
Kwiatkowski - 2nd-4th in 1987
(btw, as you'll notice three national medalists were in the top four in 1987, you might be interested to know that the skater who won that year was Jeri Campbell, who never did finish in the top three at nationals)
Ervin - I think 1st in 1991

So...while winning a junior national title doesn't seem to be any indication for success, Kwan is the only national medalist since 1991 (unless I've forgotten someone, since I'm doing this from memory) who never finished in the top five in juniors--and Kwan and Nikodinov are the only two who never medaled, counting those who won pewter medals. It's not necessarily "the better you do in juniors," since obviously some of those who did better at the time never did make it in seniors. But it does look like some degree of junior success is almost required for medaling in seniors these days.

[alfongsucks]

Did Jennifer Karl ever compete as a senior? Did she have any successs? I remember reading an article about her, and she seemed so stressed out at the time as a junior, [she said something like her school friends did not understand the level she was at, and she went to watch them in their sports, but they were no where near the level she was at} that I knew she would not be very successful

[Trillian]

Originally posted by alfongsucks
Did Jennifer Karl ever compete as a senior? Did she have any successs?

I think she only made nationals as a senior once, in 1996, and finished 10th. She quit after the 1998-99 season.

[alfongsucks]

What ever happened to her? I saw her only skate once as a senior and this was probably in 83 or 84, she was so impressive as a junior, she upgraded and did harder jumps, but she never put it together, once they showed her on tv and her performance was quite sad.many falls, dropped way down in the standings. Did she quit after that, or is she coaching?

[Maximillian]

I know I'm a bit late on the ball here, but this is a fantastic thread.

Jill Frost was the Olympic Alternate in '84 finishing 4th at Nats. behind Sumners, Chin, and Zayak and just ahead of Debi Thomas.

Interesting to note that Campbell was also Olympic Alternate in '88 behind Thomas, Trenary and Kadavy and just ahead of Harding.

Similarly, Ervin was Olympic Alternate in '92 behind Yamaguchi, Kerrigan and Harding.

Zayak was Olympic Alternate in '80 but got to compete at Worlds because she was the new young thing.

Kwan finally ended the bad luck run of Jr. Nats. Champ/Olympic Alternate=no substantial Sr. success in the next Olympic cycle in '94.

Kwiatkowski capped her career as Alternate in '98 and then her farewell at Worlds in Minneapolis thanks to Tara and Bobek.

Ooooh forgot to add, that Jill Frost was the one with the bad luck via the USFSA who forgot to do the necessary paper work which would have allowed her to compete in Worlds '84, as both Sumners (pro) and Chin (injury) withdrew from the event. Sad, especially considering she never came close to Worlds again.

[Artistic Skaters]

Isn't Jill Frost an attorney now? And I thought she was coaching too, at least for awhile.

[alfongsucks]

Max tell me more about this paper thing. They did not send in the right papers that year to let her compete? Who ended up competing at worlds that year? I thought that Zayak ended up winning a medal at worlds that year........somehow......

[Maximillian]

I don't know the exact story about the paperwork thing, just that the USFSA never sent in the necessary paperwork for an alternate at Worlds that year by the time of the deadline. As it turned out Zayak was the only American lady to compete at Worlds that year and won the bronze behind Witt and Kondrashova.

I don't know what Frost is up to these days, she was out of Skating Club of Boston I believe.

Another former Jr. Champ who did well initially on the Sr. level was Kathryn Adams, she finished fifth behind Frost in '84 at Nats. (Thomas was sixth) and fourth behind Chin, Thomas and Kadavy in '85 and had a couple of big internationals that fall (I think NHK and Skate America) but then wound up 12th at Nats. the next year and that was the end of that.

Jeri Campbell was a fantastic skater, after finishing 4th in '88, she was expected to make the World team with Trenary in '89, but had to withdraw after figures with an injury. She came back the next year and finished fifth and I think skated in '91 too, but dropped down the ranks. I think she's coaching/choreographing at UDel now.

[Louis]

I have a tape of the 1984 Worlds broadcast, where they show the paperwork. The USFSA completely neglected to name any alternates for the ladies event. I believe Claire Ferguson's signature was on the document. :roll:

Jeri Campbell showed up for the U.S. Open pro event in 1994 with a gorgeous triple lutz. That was the last I saw of her, competitively. I know she did some touring and cruise ship skating after that. This year, she was a judge at Scott Williams' American Open. Jeri and her fiance (or husband?) Jeff Merica, a senior men's competitor at Nationals in the late 90s, have been coaching and choreographing at the University of Delaware for the past few years.

[smurf]

The mens results are interesting - based on the past, one could make a safe bet that Matt Savoie will be a US Nat Champ. Go Matt!!!

[Mazurka Girl]

Jeri Campbell is a wonderful skater. I believe her post-competitive skating included a stint with Dorothy Hamill's Ice Capades (good choreography) & also skating with the Next Ice Age.

[Maximillian]

Another interesting note (to me anyway). Caryn Kadavy had to be one of the few U.S. ladies to ever make it to the top interantionally while never having competed at a Jr. or Novice Nats. Her first Nats of any kind was in '85 where she won the bronze. Pretty impressive.

[Gingi]

Whatever happened to her? She was the Junior World Champion at one point (early 1990's?), competed in seniors for a while and then disappeared. What was she like as a skater? What is she doing now? I remember her because her sister is Phoebe Mills, the only American to medal in gymnastics at the 1988 Olympics.

[Trillian]

Originally posted by Gingi
Whatever happened to her? She was the Junior World Champion at one point (early 1990's?), competed in seniors for a while and then disappeared.

IIRC the last time Jessica Mills made nationals was in 1996 as a senior; she failed to qualify the next season and disappeared after that. I also seem to remember that she was being coached by Zmievskaya for the last couple of years of her competitive career, though prior to that I think she skated in Colorado for some time. Not sure who else coached her, though I want to say Gordie McKellan might have been one of them.

Her world title was in 1989; she went back and attempted to defend it the next season but finished fourth instead. No lady has ever successfully defended a junior world title, btw, though a number have tried, and after Mills, the USFSA never sent another reigning champion back to junior worlds in any discipline.

[Alexeiskate]

Ok, since people are providing updates on past junior skaters, does anyone know what ever became of Lorilee Pritchard ? I remember reading that she had amazing spinning ability. I was looking forward to seeing her skate at the senior level, but I don't think she ever competed at the senior level.

[trixie]

Janet Lynn's birthday is April 4. In Feb. 1966 she was 12 when she won her jr. title.

The junior title curse was discussed in one of Brennen's books, but of course, her researchers don't hold a candle to you guys. At the time of writing Heiss was the last jr. titlest to win Olympic gold, but now, of course, it is Sarah.
It is inertesting to see how the trend has held, even with the huge changes in the rule book, etc.( besides knowing how few of us believe in patterns.)