Zhulin Fired From Ice House?

[adrianchew]

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&threadm=3D71A093.FA248173%40ecn.com&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dice%2Bhouse%2Bgroup:rec.sport.skating .ice.figure%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG%26scoring%3Dd

Read it on FSU and RSSIF - anyone here knows more details?

[GreekGoddess85]

that sucks :(
I cannot believe it
apparently he was giving free ice time to skaters and the IceHouse didn't like it :(

[Tikobuzz]

I have no answers, but I am curious as to what is going on there. Where is Moskvina? Are I/Z still training there? Where are B/S? K/D are going to Europe to skate, then on to Russia, so they won't be there this fall. Is Moskvina's husband still there? That entire entourage which moved there in 2000 seems to be going elsewhere. I remember that Moskvina's contract which she signed initially would expire in 2002. With her absence, have the skaters whom she coached gone their separate ways. And what about Kawaguchi and Markuntsov and Sasha Abt? Anxious for answers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lark]

I have read a couple different places that he was "caught" giving free ice time.
I am not sure if that is a common practice. If it is, and he got fired for it, they did not want him there for some reason.
If it is not common practice, then he is a thief, and they have every reason to fire him.

[loveskating]

I have no answers, but it could be that conditions for skaters in Russia are improving

I read somewhere on line last week that the Russians are taking a lead from the Italians and turning thier national lottery over to figureskating (or maybe sports as a whole, but I think just skating to begin with)....

Apparently, the Italians did this several years ago for all their sports and now have $1.5 billion in their fund. Sorry I don't have the URL...I just thought of it as other news.

Also, generally, I would expect that Russians would no longer feel their athletes to be safe in the USA because the complaint/affidavit of the Southern District is unprecedented, and carries serious jail time of up to 30 years as per the statutes listed in the complaint/affidavit....its way past the Public Relations game.

From the Russian POV, if the United States is willing to go that far (make no mistake, the Southern District did not just cook this up...they would NEVER do anything having an international consequence without clearing it with superiors, probably at the State Department), then none of the Russian athletes are safe here.
.

[bleu]

It is great to see Russia helping its skaters out such that they don't have to associate with you know who. I think that is a great move for the country and particularly skating.

The way I see it is - good funding for Russia is good for every one in the ISU.

[Tikobuzz]

Loveskating . . .what do you mean by "safe here"? Can you be more succinct, since this sounds rather "cloak and dagger"?

[Amy L]

B&S haven't trained full time at the Ice House in over a year. Last summer, when they went home to St. Petersburg, the renovations at their home rink were complete. They liked the facilities so much that they decided to move back to St. Petersburg. Tamara went with them, but her husband Igor stayed in NJ to work with I&Z and Kawaguchi/Markuntsov. Tamara went back and forth from NJ to St. Petersburg for the whole season. B&S trained at Hackensack for a couple of weeks before any competition in North America. For them it didn't have anything to do with funding or any other kind of law. They were homesick and had the opportunity to stay home.

[AxelAnnie22]

Originally posted by loveskating

From the Russian POV, if the United States is willing to go that far (make no mistake, the Southern District did not just cook this up...they would NEVER do anything having an international consequence without clearing it with superiors, probably at the State Department), then none of the Russian athletes are safe here.
.

With all due respect, I think that is kind of a leap! Hopefully, the Russian Mob isn't safe here LOL!

Moskvina left after Sept 11th., and I think that had as much to do with things as anything else. Also, B&S were having problems, and needed less distractions.

[Tikobuzz]

Will there be any Russian skaters training now at the Ice House as Navka will go with her husband, and, I assume, Abt as well?

[Anjelica]

This is mere speculation on my part, perhaps the Ice House wasn't happy with how he was running the ice dance program there, I mean Joseph/Forsyth bombed and L&T didn't fare much better. Does anyone know where he and wifey/partner are going then?

[Excidra]

Volchkova is with Zhulin as well, right? Will she go with him, or go back home to Russia?

[Amy L]

Volchkova is with Oleg Vasiliev in Chicago.

[blades]

yeah...right...better that they should train at home where people blow up athlete's cars to "send a message"...(don't much care for that statement?...well...beyond speculative statements about the safety of russian athletes in the states don't go down much better...)

Part of your post was a very personal and broad attack on a poster...its better for debate if there is more than one POV on different issues, and not being in the mainstream, not agreeing with a majority on any given subject does not call for personal attacks.

The part of your post which challenged the content of the post by your targeted poster remains and is more than welcome.



Loveskating, wearing moderator hat now.

[loveskating]

HI AxelAnnie:

You said: "With all due respect, I think that is kind of a leap! Hopefully, the Russian Mob isn't safe here LOL!

Moskvina left after Sept 11th., and I think that had as much to do with things as anything else. Also, B&S were having problems, and needed less distractions."

Well, I was just speculating about what the RUSSIAN point of view (POV) might be...my own POV is a lot more complex.

I've tried to imagine for a few seconds that what happened to B&S etc. happened to Michelle Kwan, and that what is happening to Anissina etc. happened to, say, Shae Lynn Bourne, to get an inkling of what Russians might possibly be feeling (note I used the word "feeling" as opposed to "thinking").

Don't forget, I have Russian freinds that I go to lunch with, so I have some perspective as to how they are taking all this.

What is your analysis of why the Russians turned their national lottery over to sports...starting with figure skating? This just happened within the last few weeks. I understand that the poverty level (by Russian standards, not American ones) is 50% of the populatoin now...so this is no small thing, to put those resources into sports, starting with skating? My view is that they want their skaters home...and I SPECULATE that the invovlement of the Southern District in skating has something to do with that.

Perhaps my use of "safe" was confusing...did not mean violence, rather I meant safe from attacks on their dignity and from prosecution?

[AxelAnnie22]

Hi Loveskating

Thanks for the clarification.

Regarding the lottery. I think it is lovely that skating will have lots of support. However, I can't see the logic there. Skating, although wonderful, is a luxury, and as such, I would put it way behind, oh I don't know, heat, medical, food, roads, etc., on the list of priorities for the Russian Government. It kind of harks back to the olden days of state supported sports. There may be some underlying logic, but I don't see it. Of course, the Russian Gov't may call me later to consult. I'll let you know!

The thing I don't understand about the whole Skating thing is why the Russian Judge(s) involved in the vote "trade" was not suspended. There had to be two sides involved. The French woman was worse than stupid if she traded her vote for a wink, rather than a firm deal!

Frankly, the entire thing makes me sick. I liked Ms. Brennen's recommendation about how the entire thing should have been resolved. Oh well. It will be another season soon, and we will have other things to focus on LOL!

[Mazurka Girl]

Originally posted by loveskating
Also, generally, I would expect that Russians would no longer feel their athletes to be safe in the USA because the complaint/affidavit of the Southern District is unprecedented, and carries serious jail time of up to 30 years as per the statutes listed in the complaint/affidavit....its way past the Public Relations game.

From the Russian POV, if the United States is willing to go that far (make no mistake, the Southern District did not just cook this up...they would NEVER do anything having an international consequence without clearing it with superiors, probably at the State Department), then none of the Russian athletes are safe here.
I don't see why the east vs west rhetoric has to spill over into other unrelated threads when there is an entire section available for such soapboxes. It has nothing to do with a discussion of Zhulin leaving the Ice House, which is a topic I would like to read about if anyone has accurate information that can be shared.

[GreekGoddess85]

I hope that this is just a rumor and not true.

[loveskating]

Hi AxelAnnie:

Most of us here are just speculating (some here seem to know or know of certain people involved in this and that...I don't).

I can't really think of a very good reason to fire Zulin, myself...so that's probably why I made a "flying leap". His being fired is rather upsetting, I mean, Richard Callahan (Todd Eldredge's coach) was formally accused of some pretty horrific stuff, and he was not fired (rightly so, as it turned out he was convicted of nothing) (I think he was somewhat suspended for a time, if I recall) so its just upsetting to me. Zulin is not one of my favorite people, but as a skater, coach and choreographer, he is very, very good and deserves respect.

Well, in sum, perhaps not with respect to Zulin, but its a good thing if skating fans know about this change of resources in Russia...btw, I don't agree it harkens back to communism...its no more socialistic than the NY Lottery proceeds being used for the public schools...and they got the idea from the Italians, who are not even social dems.

[LilRedRidingHood]

Originally posted by loveskating
Hi AxelAnnie:

Most of us here are just speculating (some here seem to know or know of certain people involved in this and that...I don't).

I can't really think of a very good reason to fire Zulin, myself...so that's probably why I made a "flying leap". His being fired is rather upsetting, I mean, Richard Callahan (Todd Eldredge's coach) was formally accused of some pretty horrific stuff, and he was not fired (rightly so, as it turned out he was convicted of nothing) (I think he was somewhat suspended for a time, if I recall) so its just upsetting to me. Zulin is not one of my favorite people, but as a skater, coach and choreographer, he is very, very good and deserves respect.

Well, in sum, perhaps not with respect to Zulin, but its a good thing if skating fans know about this change of resources in Russia...btw, I don't agree it harkens back to communism...its no more socialistic than the NY Lottery proceeds being used for the public schools...and they got the idea from the Italians, who are not even social dems.

I am not interested in what is more socialistic in practice than the other, but I do see BIG differences between using lottery proceeds to benefit education versus using national resources to benefit figure skating.

Seems like I agree with AxelAnnie and I'd have to say education is more important to me than figure skating.

[loveskating]

FYI, the Russian education system is not a real problem for them...its been and remains one of the best in the world.

I agree with the both of you that taking resources into sports when resources are scarce is very problematical...

[Jack]

Geez, enough of the PC banter, is Zhulin fired from Ice House or not??

[Emanfan]

Skatefans is reporting that Zhulin & Co. have been training at Floyd Hall Arena in Little Falls, New Jersey.

I would think that says Ice House is no longer a reality??

[Jack]

Bummer! :cry:

So who all has gone to the new rinkwith Zhulin? I'm assuming all of his dance teams, and Abt of course, but doesn't he have a few single skaters as well. I know he coaches a few novice/junior ladies. Did they go with him too?

Man, this blows for Ice House... that place was pretty cool with all the talent they had training there. I'm guessing it's a bit dead right now. All that beautiful ice, gone to waste...

[IgglesII]

Originally posted by loveskating


I can't really think of a very good reason to fire Zulin, myself...so that's probably why I made a "flying leap".

Here's a possible reason that was brought up to me a year ago regarding Ice House - the trend in that building toward hockey. If they wanted his ice time, they'd find a reason to push him out the door.

[AUT]

Originally posted by IgglesII
Here's a possible reason that was brought up to me a year ago regarding Ice House - the trend in that building toward hockey. If they wanted his ice time, they'd find a reason to push him out the door.

Someone recently posted a link to a NJ article about the IceHouse skating facility and basically stated that figure skating generates at most 15% of revenue. the rest was from ice hockey.

[CanAmSk8ter]

So what teams was Zhulin coaching, other than Moliver and Novikov (who, BTW, I saw at Lake Placid and was pretty impressed with?)

[Rachel]

Navka and Kostamorov.

[CanAmSk8ter]

Oh yeah. Duh. :oops: But did someone say he had some Novice/Junior teams, too? I'm trying to remember who I saw him with in Lake Placid, but other than Moliver and Novikov I'm drawing a blank.

[icedancer2285]

Zhulin had a young team there at Lake Placid - Isabella Tobias & Kirt ? an intermediate or novice level team. He also has another senior team - Clover Zatz. & her Lituanian partner. Think he as a few other single skaters in additon to Alex. Abt.