Copyright Issues with Creating/selling/performing Competition Music

[KDB]

It is common practice for competitive figure skaters to acquire music that has been re-mixed to fit a specified event length (e.g. 2.5 min, or 4 min, etc.) and accomodate various figure skating elements targeted for the program.

I have found that this music usually starts out as a CD recording of copyrighted music, not owned by the person doing the remix.

The final re-cut piece may be a complete song, or various parts of a song or a combination of several different songs compiled as a single piece. Most of the time, this re-cutting and recording is done by the coaches and sold to their athletes (i.e. $25-$50). Although some skaters do it themselves while others use proffessional recording service companies (i.e $40-$500).

It seems to me that there is a potential for violation of copyright law in this process. I am trying to find out what is being done to do this legally.

From what I have been able to learn I have found the following:

To remix copyrighted music, you must get approval from the owner of the composition work, usually the composer, and approval from the producer of the sound recording, usually a record company. These are called Master Use Rights.

Once the music is remixed, you need approval to burn it on to CD or Cassette Tape. If you were to send it to someone via the internet, that would take another kind of approval.

To sell the remix (i.e. coach to athlete) an additional approval would also be required.

However, it does appear that the copyrights of the new remix is owned by the person that made it (if they got all the approvals along the way).

Now to play the music in a public form, like an ice rink or figure skating competition approval for performance rights are required. These could be aquired by the individual from companies like BMI, ASCAP, and SESAC. The best way to get performance rights would be for the ice rink to buy a statutory license based on the number of minutes it plays music.

In any case, royalties to the copyright holders for the various approvals must be negotiated and paid before any of this can be done legally. Some approval may be free while others can be rather expensive, depending on the popularity of the music and the particular copyright holder.

From many disscussions with several athletes, coaches and proffessional recording service companies I have not found anyone following the copyright laws for figure skating music. Considering the penality for copyright infringement are rather high, $250,000 per violation and up to 10 years in prison, I would think this could become a big problem.

I hope I have this all wrong. If anyone has better information on this issue please post it here. I would really like to find a way to make this process legal, simple, and cheap. Maybe this has already been achieved. I know that gymnasts go through a similar process for their floor exercise, cheer teams custom cut their music and dancers do the same. Maybe they have solved this?

All comments are welcome.

[Samskate]

KDB, I don't mean to be a smart-a$$ in any way, but why do you care? Are you thinking if you can find a way to "legalize" this (if it needs to be legalized), you can earn money from what you are able to do? Just curious.:??

[jp1andOnly]

When you compete at say, a national championships, you MUST provide your music details.(title, composer, name of cd, date, etc) Usually the national federations pay a fee so that the skaters music could be broadcast on tv. Lower down the levels, its not an issue as chances of anything more than a 1min little clip of a song in a skaters program is slim to none. Not to mention, that lower level skater won't be on tv.

Oh ya, coaches and skaters pay a membership fee to belong to the federation, so therefore they are covered under them with regards to msuic for skating.

Technically, people should own the CD or obtain it from the library just in case. Legal services like itunes and napster would also suffice.

1It is common practice for competitive figure skaters to acquire music that has been re-mixed to fit a specified event length (e.g. 2.5 min, or 4 min, etc.) and accomodate various figure skating elements targeted for the program.

I have found that this music usually starts out as a CD recording of copyrighted music, not owned by the person doing the remix.

The final re-cut piece may be a complete song, or various parts of a song or a combination of several different songs compiled as a single piece. Most of the time, this re-cutting and recording is done by the coaches and sold to their athletes (i.e. $25-$50). Although some skaters do it themselves while others use proffessional recording service companies (i.e $40-$500).

It seems to me that there is a potential for violation of copyright law in this process. I am trying to find out what is being done to do this legally.

From what I have been able to learn I have found the following:

To remix copyrighted music, you must get approval from the owner of the composition work, usually the composer, and approval from the producer of the sound recording, usually a record company. These are called Master Use Rights.

Once the music is remixed, you need approval to burn it on to CD or Cassette Tape. If you were to send it to someone via the internet, that would take another kind of approval.

To sell the remix (i.e. coach to athlete) an additional approval would also be required.

However, it does appear that the copyrights of the new remix is owned by the person that made it (if they got all the approvals along the way).

Now to play the music in a public form, like an ice rink or figure skating competition approval for performance rights are required. These could be aquired by the individual from companies like BMI, ASCAP, and SESAC. The best way to get performance rights would be for the ice rink to buy a statutory license based on the number of minutes it plays music.

In any case, royalties to the copyright holders for the various approvals must be negotiated and paid before any of this can be done legally. Some approval may be free while others can be rather expensive, depending on the popularity of the music and the particular copyright holder.

From many disscussions with several athletes, coaches and proffessional recording service companies I have not found anyone following the copyright laws for figure skating music. Considering the penality for copyright infringement are rather high, $250,000 per violation and up to 10 years in prison, I would think this could become a big problem.

I hope I have this all wrong. If anyone has better information on this issue please post it here. I would really like to find a way to make this process legal, simple, and cheap. Maybe this has already been achieved. I know that gymnasts go through a similar process for their floor exercise, cheer teams custom cut their music and dancers do the same. Maybe they have solved this?

All comments are welcome.

[phoenix]

also w/ regard to coaches "selling" the remix/cut to their students: what they're charging for is the time they spent working on it, not the music itself.

I believe there are laws in place to allow for this sort of use (playing in a competition) on a local/non-broadcast level, which is what applies for most skaters. Then, as someone mentioned, it becomes the federation and/or broadcasters' problem.

Not to mention, I can't tell you how many CDs I've bought because I heard someone's program & loved the music!

[KDB]

KDB, I don't mean to be a smart-a$$ in any way, but why do you care? Are you thinking if you can find a way to "legalize" this (if it needs to be legalized), you can earn money from what you are able to do? Just curious.:??

As a composer, I certainly do want to be compensated for my time. I need to eat too. Also, by paying artist for their work, it allows them to produce more beautiful music for people to enjoy and skaters to skate to. Copyright laws have been created for a very important reason. Do you think people should pick and choose which laws they should obey and ignore. Laws have been created to protect people and their rights.

As an individual that remixes music for competitive skaters, I want to do it in such away that I don't have the fear that I will be arrested, sent to jail for ten years and lose all that I own (and will earn) in fines.

Do you break the law regularly? Your attitude seems rather lax.

[KDB]

When you compete at say, a national championships, you MUST provide your music details.(title, composer, name of cd, date, etc) Usually the national federations pay a fee so that the skaters music could be broadcast on tv. Lower down the levels, its not an issue as chances of anything more than a 1min little clip of a song in a skaters program is slim to none. Not to mention, that lower level skater won't be on tv.

Oh ya, coaches and skaters pay a membership fee to belong to the federation, so therefore they are covered under them with regards to msuic for skating.

Technically, people should own the CD or obtain it from the library just in case. Legal services like itunes and napster would also suffice.

1

It sounds like at the National level at least the competition organizers are getting a statutory license for public performance rights for the music. The requirement to list the music played is part of getting a Statutory license to play the music in public (performance rights). I would think most rinks would have this, although I have not been able to confirm this with my local rinks.

If music will be played on TV, in a movie, or other visual presentation they need something called a synchronization license. I would think all major television broadcasting companies would be experts on this and have all the bases covered.

Owning the CD does NOT give anyone the right to copy it in anyway (including remixing it for a figure skating competition) and it does not give them rights to play it in a public area. Napster and Itunes give very specific uses for music you download from them (only allowed to play on up to 3 PC's, burn to one CD, play for personal use only, etc..).

You must have Master Use rights from the composer and from the recording company to remix music. Otherwise you are breaking the law.

[KDB]

also w/ regard to coaches "selling" the remix/cut to their students: what they're charging for is the time they spent working on it, not the music itself.

Coaches might like to look at it this way, but they are still taking someone elses work, remixing it and making money off it and in no way compensating the artist that spent his/her life creating it. They must have Master Use rights from both the composer and recording company to do this legally.


I believe there are laws in place to allow for this sort of use (playing in a competition) on a local/non-broadcast level, which is what applies for most skaters. Then, as someone mentioned, it becomes the federation and/or broadcasters' problem.

Performance right issues are at the event organizer and broadcaster level. I suspect these laws are not being broken. They have to much exposure not to be. I don't have too much problem with this aspect of this issue.

Not to mention, I can't tell you how many CDs I've bought because I heard someone's program & loved the music!

Music composers and recording companies love to hear this. I think this is very true for a lot of people. For exactly this reason I think Master Use Rights to remix and sell competition cut music should be easily and cheaply acquired. I just haven't found anyone out there yet that has even tried. Is there anyone?

[jp1andOnly]

Since I HAVE a music degree and am a music teacher, I'm pretty up to date with copyright laws.

And chances are the majority of skaters aren't using obscure composers.

In Canada, we had a couple peopel who had compositions done for them. Of course they had permission of the composer.

EDITED to add. Look at all the schools performing music at concerts, using music at dance performances. Should we all fine them too? I know many Cheerleading coaches and dance teachers who mix music and get it ready for their students to perform. What about gymnastics??




As a composer, I certainly do want to be compensated for my time. I need to eat too. Also, by paying artist for their work, it allows them to produce more beautiful music for people to enjoy and skaters to skate to. Copyright laws have been created for a very important reason. Do you think people should pick and choose which laws they should obey and ignore. Laws have been created to protect people and their rights.

As an individual that remixes music for competitive skaters, I want to do it in such away that I don't have the fear that I will be arrested, sent to jail for ten years and lose all that I own (and will earn) in fines.

Do you break the law regularly? Your attitude seems rather lax.

[lotusland]

This is actually a very good question or discussion ... copyright violations.

It is true, as a competitive skater you must submit all the details on your musical selections. The info is given to your Section governing body, then to the Divisional committee, and finally (should you make this far) to the National organization. If you have any international assignments, the same music info is submitted to the ISU host. I was always told the music details were submitted to comply with copyright laws. Beyond that, I've never inquired.

One year, my local club wanted to use a Disney theme for the ice show. We went the route of requesting permission to use a number of Disney tunes. Fortunately for us, we sent through our paperwork very early in the game because Disney denied our request and we were forced to change our theme. To the best of my knowledge, the club has never again gone through so-called proper channels.

I've also been involved for many years in dance competitions, recitals and shows. To the best of my knowledge, no one asks permission of anyone to use Chopin, Bach, Handel or Prince.

[KDB]

This is actually a very good question or discussion ... copyright violations.

I've also been involved for many years in dance competitions, recitals and shows. To the best of my knowledge, no one asks permission of anyone to use Chopin, Bach, Handel or Prince.

I have found there is some music in the public domain because copyrights on the compositions have expired. They expire 70 years after the composer expires. However, there are usually still recording rights issues to deal with for the recording studio (unless it is also an extremely old recording, which is unlikely - these would almost have to be technolgy of recording on wax).

[KDB]

Since I HAVE a music degree and am a music teacher, I'm pretty up to date with copyright laws.

And chances are the majority of skaters aren't using obscure composers.

In Canada, we had a couple peopel who had compositions done for them. Of course they had permission of the composer.

EDITED to add. Look at all the schools performing music at concerts, using music at dance performances. Should we all fine them too? I know many Cheerleading coaches and dance teachers who mix music and get it ready for their students to perform. What about gymnastics??


Here is a pretty good site on The United States Copyright Law - A Guide for Music Educators. For educational purposes there are many exceptions, although there are still requirements for special rights approved by composers and recording companies. http://www.menc.org/information/copyright/copyr.html

[Schmeck]

I've asked our music director at our local high school, and he says the town pays a certain fee to a general licensing organization (can't remember the name of it) and that covers all productions that are non-profit, and some for-profit things, in the town for a year.

When a club is issued a sanction from the USFSA to have a competition/show, etc, then they are covered 'musically' by the USFSA. I'm assuming the USFSA pays into the same general licensing organization - I'll have to ask again for the name.

Edited to add - it's ASCAP - thanks for the link above!

[Isk8NYC]

I have found there is some music in the public domain because copyrights on the compositions have expired. They expire 70 years after the composer expires. However, there are usually still recording rights issues to deal with for the recording studio (unless it is also an extremely old recording, which is unlikely - these would almost have to be technolgy of recording on wax).

That's why WB used so much classical music in the Bugs Bunny cartoons!
(Yes, that is pretty much the extent of my classical music exposure, with the exception of skating and my kids' "homework" music.)

Just to add my 2¢ to this discussion: rinks that play music during the public sessions also hold an annual license for public broadcasting. There are two organizations they can subscribe to: ASCAP being one, I don't remember the other.

Sanctioned competitions and shows, both ISI and USFSA, include the music licensing.

I agree that coaches who cut music are being paid for their services, not the song itself. The coaches don't charge the student for the 88¢ song download or the software used to edit the music. In many cases, the student provides the original CD. Editing one song to have the proper pace changes, rulebook-length, while still making the music flow, is time-consuming.

While Litigator hasn't join our discussion as yet, I will point out that Disney's legal department is aggressive in protecting their name and properties. Any organization that wants to have a "Disney" show, start a Mickey Birthday Party Place, or paint their pre-school room with Disney characters, needs to be ready for a "cease and desist letter" from Disney.

[slusher]

If I remix a song and use it to earn money without acknowledging copyright and paying royalties I think that would be a huge wrong but I believe that those arguments have been settled in the court already, vis a vis remix/rap songs with sampling.

If I buy a CD, cut a solo from it and play that music at a competition for the purpose of performance where no one is eligible to earn money from the use of the music, (because we're all "amateurs") is that the same thing? I've heard a whole lot of little kid programs done to Little Mermaid if you know what I mean.

That's why I think that at the national level, music forms are required, because they sell tickets to the event.

I'd actually like to know the answer to this question.

[Samskate]

KDB, no, I do not break any laws regularly or otherwise. I just didn't understand why you were so concerned about it. You explained quite nicely. I didn't mean to offend you.

[KDB]

If I remix a song and use it to earn money without acknowledging copyright and paying royalties I think that would be a huge wrong but I believe that those arguments have been settled in the court already, vis a vis remix/rap songs with sampling.

Here is what I found out about sampling: Sampling is the use of portions of prior recordings which are incorporated into a new composition. When you sample someone's song without permission, it is an instant copyright violation. It is the unauthorized use of copyrighted material owned by another. Sampling without permission violates two copyrights-the sound recording copyright (usually owned by the record company) and the copyright in the song itself (usually owned by the songwriter or the publishing company).
check out: http://www.music-law.com/sampling.html

[Isk8NYC]

I started a thread on Copyright Issues with Creating/selling/performing Competition Music. I just noticed your comment on the PSA Coaches Manual. You say it includes information on editing music. Does it give any insite as to how to address copyright issues? I don't have my copy of the book with me. I think you should call one of the three main skating organizations in the US and discuss your copyright concerns with them. It's obviously a larger concern than can be answered on this Board.

[KDB]

I don't have my copy of the book with me. I think you should call one of the three main skating organizations in the US and discuss your copyright concerns with them. It's obviously a larger concern than can be answered on this Board.


Any idea who I should talk to? If not, I can just look through the web sites until I find a name/number.

I am not sure they would be to interested in the remixing/selling copyright issues (which I think are the biggest problems). They are probably more concerned with the performance rights issues which are more event oriented, which they probably have covered. The performance rights side of the copyright issue is fairly easy to solve with all the organizations like BMI, ASCAP, and SESAC designed to collect these fees (performace rights are compulsory-they have to give them to you for a set price ~$0.06/min).

I will try to find out what I can from USFS/ISI/PSA. I think PSA might be the one with the most to say (as you had found in the coaches manual a few years ago).

[lotusland]

Did some research and found the answer to your inquiry regarding copyright issues in Canada. I confirmed with both the skating body and the dance community today how they deal with music copyright issues. Apparently, both communities pay a flat fee, based on the number of competitors/performers entered into a specific event or performance, to "SOCAN." The music cpyright fee is collected from each competitor/performer through their individual entry fees for each specific event/performance. Here is a link to some info on the Canadian copyright situation and SOCAN: http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet/incrp-prda.nsf/en/rp00735e.html

[KDB]

Did some research and found the answer to your inquiry regarding copyright issues in Canada. I confirmed with both the skating body and the dance community today how they deal with music copyright issues. Apparently, both communities pay a flat fee, based on the number of competitors/performers entered into a specific event or performance, to "SOCAN." The music cpyright fee is collected from each competitor/performer through their individual entry fees for each specific event/performance. Here is a link to some info on the Canadian copyright situation and SOCAN: http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet/incrp-prda.nsf/en/rp00735e.html

Good work, unfortuneately this addresses the performance rights issue only, which clears the facility, event organizers and participants to play the music in public.

It DOES NOT address the basic copyright violations occurring when the music is remixed/copied to CD or Tape, and sometimes sold to athletes.

It took a while to get through the document, here is a key part I am concerned about.

<from SOCAN's Document>
SOCAN's copyright reform concerns relate to:
• musical works, as opposed to literary, dramatic, or other artistic
works. The Copyright Act defines “musical work” as “...any
work of music or musical composition, with or without words”;
and
• “performing rights” in musical works, which include the right:
* to perform musical works in public; or
* to communicate musical works to the public by
telecommunication.
SOCAN’s performing rights in musical works are separate and distinct from
other rights, including reproduction rights (i.e., mechanical rights and
synchronization rights) or Bill C–32's neighbouring rights.
<from SOCAN's Document>

SOCAN is equivalent to BMI, ASCAP, and SESAC in the US, which also only provide performance rights.

Did you find anything concerning when the music is remixed/copied to CD or Tape, and sometimes sold to athletes? These each require several different approvals and licenses from the composer and recording company. They are not covered by a performance rights license as shown in the part included above.

[lotusland]

Sorry, I didn't take the inquiry down to that level, just looked into 'why' skaters have to submit music info ie: what do the associations do with the info and how do they deal with copyright issues. And, does dance deal with copyright issues at all. Happy to report both disciplines try to abide by the rules. Although, skating and dance do handling the submission a little differently. In dance the music information and renumeration to SOCAN is sort of generic ... no details on what specific artists were used/copied, just the number of performers and the $$$ ... its just a lump sum submission. Skating though, tries to submit a more comprehesive submission with the $$$.

In terms of using, editing, remixing the music ... you might want to check with any one of the professional music businesses to see what they are required to do and what they end up doing. I am sure in Canada Sandhu, Buttle, Rochette, Leung, or Hawker are well beyond having their 'coaches' do their music. And likewise in the U.S. Weir, Lysacheck (sp?), Cohen, Meissener, Hughes etc. all use professional music people to edit their music. Maybe one of their websites indicates who they go to for music.

I did speak with a number of coaches who I know do their own music editing etc. for their younger skaters. They don't see what they are doing as an infringement on anyone's copyright. They all admitted they charge for the process, but they are charging for their time used to look for and edit the music, as well as their expenses such as buying CDs, tapes etc. In regard to their older skaters who make it to the Sectional and higher levels, they see the copyright situation as being addressed through the submission of the music details and the $$ submitted to SOCAN by the parent association.

Don't know if this helps you at all. :)

[KDB]

.... In terms of using, editing, remixing the music ... you might want to check with any one of the professional music businesses to see what they are required to do and what they end up doing. I am sure in Canada Sandhu, Buttle, Rochette, Leung, or Hawker are well beyond having their 'coaches' do their music. And likewise in the U.S. Weir, Lysacheck (sp?), Cohen, Meissener, Hughes etc. all use professional music people to edit their music. Maybe one of their websites indicates who they go to for music.

Here are a few companies I found that edit music for competitive athletes.

http://www.studiounisons.com/
This one has done music for several top figure skaters, like Sasha Cohen, Jeffrey Buttle, Mikki Ando, Joannie Rochette, and Midori Ito.

http://www.floorexpressmusic.com/
This one is focused on gymnastic floor exercise programs.
Since 1980, most members of the US Team and great athletes from around the world have competed using his music. He was the composer and arranger for the Atlanta Olympics MAG 7 Gold Medal US Team and the 1992 US Olympic Team that brought home Bronze from Barcelona. He has arranged for Shannon Miller, Kim Zmeskal, Dominique Moceanu, Svetlana Boguinskaia, Dominique Dawes, Amanda Borden, Jaycie Phelps, Keri Strug, Morgan White…………

http://www.digitalmusicservices.com/Home.php
This one is focused on dance and cheer programs but trying to expand into everything.
He has ventured into areas beyond Dance Schools and Dance Competitions as well. Their current client base includes: Body Builders, Fitness Competitors, Dance Squads, Cheerleaders, Figure Skaters and Mardi Gras Balls.

http://www.gregsmusicediting.com/
This one produces Musical programs produced for ice skating competitions, ice skating shows, gymnastics, cheerleading, pom pom, dance teams and dance recitals.

[KDB]

I got a good source of copyright information from one of the music editing companies. I can't wait to get the book he suggests. Here is what he wrote:

Kevin – in a nutshell, yes – everything that needs to be licensed needs to be licensed – The paths through the music industry vary for each piece depending on the record company and the associated publishing.
There are several excellent texts on this – I recommend “This Business of Music” it is the one everyone refers to
as an excellent reference.
Barry Nease
Floor Express Music

[lotusland]

Curious to hear what “This Business of Music” has to say about the subject of copyright. Once you've read the book, would you post a review for those of us who are too lazy to read the material ourselves :)