Wirtz & Wirtz

[tulip]

What is going on with them, does anyone know? Are they still planning on coming back like what was reported in IFS magazine?

[tulip]

Bump.

Any news?

[today]

8) I saw them practicing their short (I think) at the Cricket Club. It looked very good. I believe they are planning to compete this year if all goes well. The club had a show to end their summer school and they skated in that and looked fantastic. They landed a huge triple throw.

[Greek Chic]

Well if all goes well - Kudos to them for returning. I can't wait to see what they have been up to since there time off.

[becca]

yeah, Kris told my mom that they were planning to compete this year and they also said so at the summer skating exibition.

[Jenny]

Really? Skate Canada doesn't have them listed for any events coming up, so where are they planning to compete? I'm sure room would be made for them, I just don't see any evidence of it.

Is it possible they are planning to compete at the Cdn Open and World Pros, or whatever it's called these days? And what's the one in October that usually gets a few international skaters?

Or perhaps SC is coaxing them back due to the sudden lack of senior pairs.

Jenny

[Artemis]

Originally posted by Jenny
Really? Skate Canada doesn't have them listed for any events coming up, so where are they planning to compete? I'm sure room would be made for them, I just don't see any evidence of it.

The SkateCanada website is notorious for being the last place to find any news ... so I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Wirtzes and SkateCan had all kinds of plans in place but they just aren't posted at the website yet.

Or at least that's what I hope. I'm really hoping SkateCanada won't decide to "punish" Kristy for getting pregnant last year. Stranger things have happened ...

[shopper]

i can't believe they are coming back to amateur competition.
i would have thought that since she worked so so hard when tristan was born and a young child that she might want to spend more time with this new baby...

[tomato]

As much as I'm sure Kristy would like to spend as much time with her new baby as possible, people do have to make a living. I don't know for sure, but I imagine Kristy and Kris aren't in a position to consider early (very early) retirement (and it's hard to skate pairs without your partner). Sure, coaching can pay some bills, but a growing family is very expensive. Luckily, even though a lot of time is spent training, it's the kind of career where you can also spend lots of time with the kids - Tristan has never lacked quality or quantity of time with her mother. Whether they compete eligible or pro, I say good luck to them and I can't wait to see Brianna running around the rink just like Tristan!

Sour Grapes

[Verna]

Originally posted by tomato


As much as I'm sure Kristy would like to spend as much time with her new baby as possible, people do have to make a living. I don't know for sure, but I imagine Kristy and Kris aren't in a position to consider early (very early) retirement (and it's hard to skate pairs without your partner). Sure, coaching can pay some bills, but a growing family is very expensive.

I figured they were coming back because they needed the money. Anway, Kris is what 34 or 35 years old right now? Is he going to be 40 and still competing? :roll:

And here I thought Paul Wirtz's TCS skating club was booming and Kristy & Kris would have no trouble making a living coaching. :twisted:

Originally posted by tomato
Luckily, even though a lot of time is spent training, it's the kind of career where you can also spend lots of time with the kids - Tristan has never lacked quality or quantity of time with her mother. Whether they compete eligible or pro, I say good luck to them and I can't wait to see Brianna running around the rink just like Tristan!

Sour Grapes

Huh? Didn't Tristan spend the first 4 years of her life in Alberta being raised by Kristy's mother while Kristy lived in Montreal. I would hardly call that quality time.

[Xiaoxue]

Wow! They're planning a comeback? Are they being coached by Kris's brother? I can't believe i forgot his name! The best years of skating i saw from the Wirtzes was after they had left Paul Wirtz to train fully under Marina Zoueva.

I wonder if Kris and Kristy have some surprises for us this season, if they are indeed returning.

Best of luck to them!

[Jenny]

Originally posted by Verna


I figured they were coming back because they needed the money. Anway, Kris is what 34 or 35 years old right now? Is he going to be 40 and still competing? :roll:

And here I thought Paul Wirtz's TCS skating club was booming and Kristy & Kris would have no trouble making a living coaching. :twisted:

Huh? Didn't Tristan spend the first 4 years of her life in Alberta being raised by Kristy's mother while Kristy lived in Montreal. I would hardly call that quality time.

Goodness, what did they ever do to you? Actually, I don't want to know - just wanted to set the record straight on their ages: Kristy is 28 and Paul is 31.

Jenny

[Catherine M]

Originally posted by Jenny


Goodness, what did they ever do to you? Actually, I don't want to know - just wanted to set the record straight on their ages: Kristy is 28 and Paul is 31.

Jenny


I'm pretty sure Kris Wirtz is 33 already. I remember reading somewhere he was born in 1969. The year stuck in my mind as you don't see any eligible skaters born in the 60s anymore.


Catherine

[Artemis]

According to their bios, Kris was born Dec. 12, 1969, which makes him 32, turning 33 at the end of the year.

Kristy was born Jan. 24, 1974, so she's 28.

[Lee]

Kris and Kristi could very well be working on an 'ISU' short program -- the Cdn Open has run the past several years with an ISU short and interpretive (professional) long. But that doesn't mean they're planning on competing in 'eligible' events.

Even if they *are* planning to maintain their eligibility, GP assignments are dependent on ISU World ranking. W&W may not have enough points to qualify for a GP event -- and it's certainly not beyond the realm of possibility to see them just show up at Canadians in Saskatoon without having done any previous events. Depending on how many teams are in whatever Section they would represent, they might get all the way to Cdns on 'lack of entry' byes.

I guess we'll find out sooner or later!

[serpentine]

if Kris and Kristy want to compete, now is the time...i can imagine they still have a couple years in them--they are both fighters. Also, now is the time to jump back, while the senior pairs contingent in Canada is small.
This is one team that has gained my respect over the years and I support them in whatever endeavor they choose. Now let's all wait and see what the *official* scoop will be.8)

[becca]

I have heard that they might compete at trophy lalique but I'm not completely sure.

[speedy]

A little off-topic here, but what the heck was this article in IFS all about with the two coaches in their 80's being shown the door at the Cricket Club in Toronto due to Paul Wirtz basically taking over the coaching operations there? That sounded horrible. Glad to see they got offers from all over, including from what sounded like a better-run facility there in Toronto. Unless the article was terribly slanted in favor of these 2 coaches, it was definitely not a well-handled situation.

[today]

:( I am now VERY sorry I posted an answer to Tulips question! How did this get so twisted? Not only are Wirtz and Wirtz bad parents and broke, but their brother is a meanie for firing some nice old people!!! I will know not to post in the future. Although I don't know them personally, in my opinion, Kris and Kristy are dedicated parents. The baby regularly accompanies them to the arena. Each skating session lasts about an hour. In between sessions, one or both are with the baby. Not many children have so much attention from both parents. Also in my opinion they are not broke. They appear to have lots of students and I have overheard Kris discussing a new hot tub etc. Not everyone wants to coach. Maybe they enjoy skating and competeing. Most skaters do. As for the firings, we only heard one side because there are lawyers involved. According to my friend who is a skater there, the difficulty lay in the older coaches not wanting to accept the new management's changes. This is a common story anytime there is a change over in management.
The Wirtz's appear to be reasonable and responsible people and perfectly capable of handling their own lives. While Tulip's question was not intended to be controversial, it has led to some very malicious comments.

[Lee]

As there are always two sides to every story, and IFS is reporting just one, why don't we leave it at that and bring the discussion back to the skating TEAM of Wirtz and Wirtz, rather than the other. ~Lee

[roogu]

I don't believe age will be too much of a factor for kris ... lots of male skaters were in their early to mid 30's and still skating pairs

I believe Ingo Steuer was 32 when he won bronze with Mandy in 98

Todd Sand was almost 35 in 1998.

Rene Novotny was also in his early thirties when he won the world title in 95.

Lloyd Eisler was 31 back in Lillehammer and is still skating today!

[dawnk]

IMO, the problem is not Kris's age, its his size. He will have to do alot of upper body work if he wants to compete on an international level. He just doesn't have the strength of the other males in pairs, and that's why their lifts have always been mediocre. They have on occasion put together 2 flawless programs in a competition, but for the most part they either botched the long or the short. I don't know what they're thinking, coming back. For all the years that they skated, they do not have one element that has their signature on it. The best part of their program has always been the death spiral, but even that, it is Jamie & David that made an innovation on that move.

[haribobo]

It'll be interesting to see if they can medal at Canadian Nationals if they do in fact come back. I just hope they will be judged fairly and not on reputation. Many of their elements in the past have been very weak-- and for Canada's sake I hope they have either improved those flaws, or are ready for a tough world out there...I've always felt their basic skating had a nice flow and sincerity to it, though. Without the other elements, they are one of the more pleasing pairs to watch.

[Louis]

The elite pairs scene is NOT that tough these days. Pang/Tong and Scott/Dulebohn are ranked fifth and sixth in the world, and the Wirtzes used to beat them regularly. Winning a medal could be tough, but it's not unreasonable to think that the Wirtzes could equal their career best of sixth in the world.

[evereg]

I thought that they announced their retirement last year. Perhaps, they are just tuning up for the pro-circut.

[sk8pics]

Originally posted by Louis
The elite pairs scene is NOT that tough these days. Pang/Tong and Scott/Dulebohn are ranked fifth and sixth in the world, and the Wirtzes used to beat them regularly. Winning a medal could be tough, but it's not unreasonable to think that the Wirtzes could equal their career best of sixth in the world.

I seem to recall Scott & Dulebohn beating the Wirtzes at Worlds 2000 in Nice and also at a 4 Continents competition. Granted with the fall by Obertas & Palamarchuk in the pairs free skate at Worlds that year, the Wirtzes were very shaken up. At Worlds 2001 in Vancouver Tiffany was injured in the warmup, but I don't remember how W&W placed there. I don't know how many times the Wirtzes and Scott & Dulebohn competed against one another, but I don't think it's quite correct to say the Wirtzes beat them "regularly." I'm thinking they only skated against one another 3 or 4 times, and it was about split in terms of outcome. Maybe I'm forgetting a couple of Grand Prix events.

Pat

[Erin F]

Originally posted by sk8pics

I seem to recall Scott & Dulebohn beating the Wirtzes at Worlds 2000 in Nice and also at a 4 Continents competition. Granted with the fall by Obertas & Palamarchuk in the pairs free skate at Worlds that year, the Wirtzes were very shaken up. At Worlds 2001 in Vancouver Tiffany was injured in the warmup, but I don't remember how W&W placed there. I don't know how many times the Wirtzes and Scott & Dulebohn competed against one another, but I don't think it's quite correct to say the Wirtzes beat them "regularly." I'm thinking they only skated against one another 3 or 4 times, and it was about split in terms of outcome. Maybe I'm forgetting a couple of Grand Prix events.


Well, the Wirtzes beat S&D at 1999 4CC, 1999 Lalique, 2000 Cup of Russia, and 2001 Worlds. And S&D came out on top at 2000 4CC, 2000 Worlds, and 2001 4CC. So yes, it is split about evenly, but I think Louis's point is that the Wirtzes are at least *capable* of beating Scott & Dulebohn.

As for Canadians, I'd be surprised if the Wirtzes didn't make the podium, but it's certainly possible. I think a lot depends on how Marcoux & Buntin look. As for the World team...with only two spots, anything could happen. Both Langlois & Archetto and Lariviere & Faustino have improved a lot in the past year and I'd give the Wirtzes 50-50 odds on making the World team.

[roogu]

Well, the Wirtzes did look stronger in their 2001 year .... they upgraded their jumps to two different sbs triples, and double axels. And their lifts looked a bit stronger and easier, not to mention a change in positions, after working with zueva. I still firmly believe they shoudl have won 2001 Canadians, there was this spark and I dunno, I thought they were just better that night .. and I've always preferred S/P over them, lol.

[Artemis]

Originally posted by roogu
I still firmly believe they shoudl have won 2001 Canadians, there was this spark and I dunno, I thought they were just better that night .. and I've always preferred S/P over them, lol.

ITA, roogu. The Wirtzes long at Canadians that year was probably the best performance they've ever done; and while S&P's program (Tristan and Isolde) was better and more sophisticated, they didn't skate it perfectly that night. It was pretty clear to me that the judges were "holding up" S&P so that they would go to worlds as national champs.

[Erin F]

Originally posted by Artemis


ITA, roogu. The Wirtzes long at Canadians that year was probably the best performance they've ever done; and while S&P's program (Tristan and Isolde) was better and more sophisticated, they didn't skate it perfectly that night. It was pretty clear to me that the judges were "holding up" S&P so that they would go to worlds as national champs.

I've heard so many posters say things like this and it frustrates me to no end. I attended this competition in person and I thought the Wirtzes' performance was one of those magical, once in a lifetime performances and it was very exciting to see live. But it was not the best performance of the night. Nor was it performed perfectly. In fact, the Wirtzes and S&P had the same number of mistakes. Jamie either doubled or fell on her triple toe and Kris doubled his triple sal. I will agree that the Wirtzes had an advantage on side by side jumps - they attempted triple toe, triple sal, and double axel and were successful the toe and axel, while S&P only had a successful double axel. But S&P were equal to or better than the Wirtzes on every other element--more difficult throws with better technique, better lifts (more difficulty, better ice coverage, better positions), better triple twist (with an interesting entry and exit), and spins & death spirals were about even. On top of that, S&P had a more intricate and sophisticated program, have better basic skating, and were faster.

So, the Wirtzes had one element (the triple toe) that S&P didn't have, while S&P had an advantage on just about every other aspect of the program. As much as I loved seeing the Wirtzes put together a great performance, the competition itself was not even close in my mind.

[Artemis]

Erin, I'll believe your element-by-element comparisson, and that probably equates to a higher technical mark for S&P. But my feelings about who should have won were based more on the artistic portion: As I've already said, S&P had a more sophisticated program, and if you're judging choreography that's what should have won. But on that night in particular, W&W really sold their program, skated with passion and joy, and with better expression than I'd ever seen from them before. S&P on the other hand were somewhat tentative and not up to their usual level of artistry. Especially when you compare their performance that night to Skate America earlier that season, and to 4CC and Worlds.

I'm still a die-hard S&P fan, and there's no doubt they're a better team overall than W&W. But on that night, there's room for doubt.

As an aside: does anyone recall whether it was a split panel?

[Erin F]

Originally posted by Artemis
As an aside: does anyone recall whether it was a split panel?

No, it was 9-0 for S&P.

http://www.skatecanada.ca/english/results/2000/0canadians/SEG010.HTM

[roogu]

I agree that element for element, Jamie and David are a lot better than Kristy and Kris. Jamie and David's throws are perfect, their lifts are gorgeous and more difficult, and of course they ahve that pair factor. But on that night, I dunno, something fell short in that performance. It felt a little flat to me. Something just wasn't there.

Kristy and Kris were just ... magical that night. The doubling of the sal is not exactly an error, just a downgrade of the element. I may have been caught up in the fact that they've wanted that kind of a performance for so many years, and in a year that was so important, they stepped up in every term of the word and did it in front of everyone they knew. Kristy's beaming smile said it during the program and how often does she do that? lol. There was just a joy, a passion for skating in that program that really made it the highlight of the night. And it should be rewarded.

Ironically, it's a bit similar to SLC isn't it? You've got a brilliant performance that came second. The team that "won", made a mistake and were a little flat. hehehe. Coincidence? or are all things just relative? lol

[ice mommy]

What I'm getting loud and clear from the posters who remember specifics from those performances is that the Wirtz's best magical performance was still lacking enough that it couldn't match Sale & Pelletier's. For those who are arguing that it was magical and therefore deserving of the win, let me say that the 2nd mark is for presentation and magical doesn't factor into that mark in more than a minimal way.

Looking to the future, my guess is that when we actually see all the pairs skate, we'll find that the Wirtz's are, at the very best, odd man our when it comes to making the Worlds team. They'd be playing catch-up with 2 teams with momentum from last season. In addition both teams have progressed to being able to skate programs which allow them to totally connect with each other and with the music, something the Wirtz's have never been able to achieve.

We'll have answers soon enough:!:

[tomato]

The most magical Wirtz performance I ever saw was Nationals in Ottawa, when they skated perfectly and did beat S&P. It was early in the S&P teamup, but the buzz in the air was the championship was going to be given to the new team beccause they showed so much potential and had a definite "wow" factor (which became proven). But they didn't have Lori Nicol cheography yet (as far as I know) and Jamie flubbed a jump or a throw (or both) and Kristy and Kris skated cleanly, strongly and with heart! Sure, I still would have given S&P a few of the elements (especially lifts), but Kristy landed the biggest, cleanest throws that night and the death spiral was breathtaking (the most snow in her hair I'd ever seen!) Having seen that AND the nationals in Winnipeg, I say don't count Kristy and Kris out yet! Whatever happens I wish them the very best.

Sour Grapes

[erin_m]

I agree that the Wirtz&Wirtz had an amazing performance at Nationals in Winnipeg. I was there and it was amazing. Jamie and David didn't perform their routine perfectly and I personally wasn't sure that they would win. I didn't (and still don't) know enough about skating technicalities to make good comparisons. Jamie and David definitely weren't as magical that night as they usually are (I figure that's because Jamie was sick at that comp) but they were still great (although I was a little amazed that the Wirtz's didn't get more first place ordinals)

[Ice_On_Winnipeg]

I have to agree. I was a little unsure of how the marks would go after watching both performances and was more than a little surprised that W&W did not get at least one or two first place ordinals. Although I agree that S&P were still better that night, the audience certainly voiced their disapproval, and I think they were caught up in the magic of their moment. A memorable skate...yes. A winning one...no.

[Doug]

So does anyone actually know what the Wirtz's plans are?

Count me in as another vote for wanting to see them attempt a come back. I always loved this team, and that's that.

[Gaela]

I was there too. It didn't occur to me that Kris and Kristie should have won, although they had the skate of the night. I suppose they could have been held up cuz Skate Canada wanted to send them into the world as National champions, but there also is a good case for them winning. Probably a bit of both. However, I don't think it mattered to Kris and Kristie. Kris said "The only way we could could these guys is if they didn't show up". I know that the audience was on its feet, and David Dore was almost in tears after they skated--they were a well-liked team and everyone was so happy for them. I don't think the silver medal did anything to their joy in how they skater.

I would be surprised to see them come back to eligible competition. Kristie was struggling with having to compete their last year, she was away from Tristan four days a week to train with Zueva in Ottawa. I wouldn't be surprised that they are training for the Canadian Open, but sure don't expect to see them back on the amateur circuit.

As to the money--it always baffles me when people talk as if successful skaters are struggling financially. I know that training is really expensive, but somehow can't see Kris and Kristie living in a one-bedroom dump and scrimping on gasoline and making their own baby food. Of course money is a concern to everyone, but I imagine they would be quite okay financially, although not so rich as some, certainly solidly middle class. And, coaches do okay to, so far as I know.

[becca]

I believe that they will be competing at Skate America and Trophy Lalique this year.

[tulip]

Originally posted by ice mommy


Looking to the future, my guess is that when we actually see all the pairs skate, we'll find that the Wirtz's are, at the very best, odd man our when it comes to making the Worlds team. They'd be playing catch-up with 2 teams with momentum from last season. In addition both teams have progressed to being able to skate programs which allow them to totally connect with each other and with the music, something the Wirtz's have never been able to achieve.

I totally agree. In addition to superior lifts and twists, L&F and L&A are now much better than the Wirtzes on the second mark.

[Doug]

Bump... any official (or unoffical) news on their plans for the upcoming season?

[Catherine M]

Originally posted by tulip
I totally agree. In addition to superior lifts and twists, L&F and L&A are now much better than the Wirtzes on the second mark.

They are coming back and will skate at Skate America. Here's a press release from Skate Canada:

After sitting out last season, former Canadian Champions Kristy and Kris Wirtz are returning to eligible competition this season. Now based in Toronto they are currently training out of the Toronto Cricket, Skating and Curling club and are being coached by Paul Wirtz.

Kristy, 28 and Kris 32, are two-time Olympic team members and seven-time World team members. They achieved six top-ten finishes at Worlds, most recently in Vancouver in 2001 they finished 8th.

Based on their ISU ranking as 15th in the World, the ISU Grand Prix Management Commission has assigned the duo to Skate America being held in Spokane, Washington October 24 - 27, 2002.

"We are very pleased that Kris and Kristy have made the decision to return to competition this year," says Pam Coburn, Skate Canada CEO. "They are seasoned competitors and will round out an already competitive field vying for the 2003 Canadian Pair title in Saskatoon next January."

Kristy gave birth to a second daughter, Brianna, on May 21, 2002.

[roogu]

I wonder how L/F and L/A feel about this. heheh ;)

[Verna]

I wouldn't imagine L&F and L&A are too concerned seeing as though they have all the goods and more to beat the Wirtzes.