Interesting opinion piece on Michelle Kwan [Archive]

babyballerina

01-20-2006, 04:28 AM

I do agree though that athletes should nit compete insured or in pain... that's just common sense and I find it very alienating that this practice is acceptable, no matter at what level.

ITA! I hate the way athletes who compete in pain are held up to be great examples, overcoming adversity. In my opinion that's just plain stupid. When it concerns young people (gymnasts for example) it's verging on criminal!

I'm not a Michelle fan. However, I think in this case we have to give her the benefit of the doubt. She has had a long career which has been relatively injury free. Almost certainly she would have qualified for the Olympics is she had skated. She isn't the 15th placed skater complaining. It's not as if Michelle makes a habit of skipping nationals. She has attended since about 1993 I think.

2boysmom

01-20-2006, 08:50 AM

I think it may be a Karma type thing here. I think Michelle Kwan should have been national champion in 1994. Tonya Harding should have been taken off the team(and even after she wasn't when there was complicity in illegal activities, her title should have been revoked and awarded to Kwan). Unless I don't remember correctly I don't remember her whining about losing her spot to Nancy Kerrigan. Nancy had a horrible World's the year before(I think that is one of the criteria for a bye). In fact, isn't that why there were only two spots available on the Olympic team? I think Nancy certainly deserved her bye. It was a very odd situtation.

I think Harding didn't belong at the Olympics. That might have been Kwan's year. She was young and had nothing to lose. It seems that is the trait of a lot of past Ladies' Gold Medal Winners in the past few Olympics. So maybe in reality she doesn't deserve the spot this year. But maybe she deserves one more chance for the chance she didn't get in 1994. This is just my opinion.

Kylen15

01-20-2006, 10:38 AM

Actually, Nancy wasn't the only one at fault at 1993 Worlds. She finished, I believe, fifth overall. But Ervin was around 12th or 13th, and Kwiatkowski didn't even make it out of qualifying.

Kwan wasn't ready to make an impact in 1994. She just was NOT.

Mercedeslove

01-20-2006, 12:22 PM

Interesting article yes, but I'm only partially in agreement.
I disagree with the point that Michelle Kwan should have the right to be picked for the Olympics. It's really simple, she did not qualify, wasn't even close... she had her chance for how many years... so now it's someone else turn, that's how it goes, live with it and don't whine.

I do agree though that athletes should not compete insured or in pain... that's just common sense and I find it very alienating that this practice is acceptable, no matter at what level.

I totally agree. I don't think it's fair for Emily or any other skater. The skaters who competed at Nationals worked hard, real hard. To have Michelle come in like the spoiled brat she is and just get a spot. Is far from fair. Michelle competed in one meet this whole year and didn't even do good. Therefore the spot shouldn't have been hers. I was really upset and ashamed when I found out it was given to her.

Moto Guzzi

01-20-2006, 12:35 PM

Michelle competed in one meet this whole year and didn't even do good. Fourth in the World Championships is not doing good?!! What are you smoking?

loveskating

01-20-2006, 12:40 PM

In 1994, Kwan was as slow as molasses, and in 1995 she had zero artistry, she was the definition of a jumping bean. No way should she have been national champ any of those years.

I agree with the writer about athletes performing while injured -- but its up to them, and Kwan is the one who sought this bye.

likes2skate

01-20-2006, 01:13 PM

I totally agree. I don't think it's fair for Emily or any other skater. The skaters who competed at Nationals worked hard, real hard. To have Michelle come in like the spoiled brat she is and just get a spot. Is far from fair. Michelle competed in one meet this whole year and didn't even do good. Therefore the spot shouldn't have been hers. I was really upset and ashamed when I found out it was given to her.

I do not get why you are saying she is a spoiled brat? The rule to request a bye was not put in place for her so she could go the olympics, it is a rule that has been there for at least 10 years.

I don't agree with all of this "poor emily" stuff either. She had a lousy free skate at nationals that just happened to be better than everyone except for 2 people, which gave her 3rd place. (And wasn't she actually 4th in the free skate?)

I don't know of ONE other individual sport where the athlete is frowned upon because they thought of themselves instead of a competitor.

This is a sport, not Pee Wee's playhouse. As pretty as ice skating is, and as pretty as the girls are, they want to do whatever they can to achieve their goals. How can you fault them for that? I am sure Michelle thinks Emily is a nice girl, but can you really blame her for thinking of herself before Emily? If figure skaters "thought of other competitors instead of themselves" then I woudl really wonder if figure skating was a sport. Athletes at this level want to WIN. Can you really fault them for not giving the chance to someone else, when they have one more opportunity themselves?

These athletes got where they are because of their competitive drive. People who are competitive at that level do not sit back and nicely watch as someone else takes their spot, as nice as it would be if they did.

I am willing to bet that if you ask Sasha, Shizuka, Fumie, Irina, Elana, (and others who have already had a trip to the Olympics) if they would have requested a bye, I bet $100 NONE of these women would say they would not request a bye so the third place finisher could go.

I am 100% sure that if Sasha Cohen did not compete all year and thoght she could be healthy by the olympics, she would request a bye, as she should.

The National Championships are not the Olympic Trials. What if Sasha had some sort of serious melt down and placed 4th (yeah, I know that would NEVER happen, but I am just saying). Should she not go? That would be stupid if she didn't go, and I am sure this is one of the reasons these championships are not used as the trials, and they use previous competitions to select the team. I think more sports, such as track and field, swimming, etc...should look at a whole year of competition, as opposed to one meet to select the olympians. I do not think it makes anything "less of a sport". It seems more fair to me.:D

loveskating

01-21-2006, 02:21 PM

Laetitia_Hubert

01-21-2006, 03:26 PM

People seem to be really upset with the fact that there is a bye option for injured skaters yet they're turning their aggression at MK just because she petitioned to get the bye.

What the heck?! You can't get mad at an injured athlete who's using a regulation that was made for injured athletes!

I know many are tired of seeing Kwan time and time again but if the other ladies wish to get out of Michelle's shadow they have to prove to the USFSA that they are better without a doubt. No offense to Emily Hughs but if she had really impressed the USFSA with her skating at Nats perhaps they would've unanomously given her a spot and just told MK that her competition was too strong. But in reality, MK's competition at Nats was not the toughest ever and that's why the Olympic team is what it is. Let's face it. Michelle didn't get herself on the team. The USFSA put her there. So if you're mad get pissed at them and not the athlete who's trying to do her best in a horrible situation.

I think people are just angry with the USFSA's decision to even show interest to MK because she's been over-exposed and she's won 98% of everything she's competed in. But since the bye option for injured skaters is a valid rule and would be considered for any Olympic contender, take out your hostilities on the USFSA and not MK!

P.s. I'm not even an MK fan but if you just think logically MK has done nothing wrong. She isn't a spoiled brat or any other derogatory name that some of you call her. She's just trying to make her dream come true and she's trying to make it happen under USFSA regulations.

Laetitia_Hubert

01-21-2006, 06:26 PM

[QUOTE=Laetitia_Hubert] Let's face it. Michelle didn't get herself on the team. The USFSA put her there.QUOTE]

And by this I mean MK didn't have a conspiracy behind her that helped her snake her way onto the team. The USFSA looked at her credentials and will evaluate her but there is nothing sly about this process since she pulled her groin.

likes2skate

01-22-2006, 10:54 AM

I agree, MK is a spoiled brat, LOL! She used to be a kid from my side of the tracks, and I felt for her; but now she is someone who wants her own way for the sake of it, money, money, money and who has no respect or care for her own successors; now I see her as a worse diva than Maria Callas, the worst diva in skating I've ever seen.

MK does not need an OGM, not at all. If she did, I'd have more sympathy for her bumping Emily.

But overall, I still love her. Ya gotta love Kwan -- but no way am I going to sanction or go along with some of her behavior!

Loveskating I have a question for you, if Sasha had been injured all season and requested a bye to the Olympics, would you think she was a spoiled brat also? What about Irina? She just plain old skipped Nationals.

There is nothing shady about what MK is doing. There is a rule that if you are injured, you can request a bye. She is following the rules. There is nothing "diva-ish" about following rules.

When I think of "diva" I think of Surea Bonaley (I don't think I spelled her name correctly) ripping off her silver medal.

And just one more thing I want to throw out there...Emily Hughes was not bumped off the Olympic Team because she was never actually named to the team. I suspect if she was not the sister of the Olympic Champion, there would not be that much of an issue.

Just wondering...when Todd earned his bye in 1992, and when the pairs team earned their bye in 1998, were they accused of half of the things MK is being accused of?

daisies

01-22-2006, 06:36 PM

It's really simple, she did not qualify, wasn't even close...
How can you say she did not qualify? That infers that Nationals were "Olympic trials," which they are not. Michelle was 4th at Worlds, which not only was one of the criteria used for her selection (per USFS rules) but is the reason we have three spots on the Olympic team instead of only two.

I agree, MK is a spoiled brat, LOL! She used to be a kid from my side of the tracks, and I felt for her; but now she is someone who wants her own way for the sake of it, money, money, money and who has no respect or care for her own successors; now I see her as a worse diva than Maria Callas, the worst diva in skating I've ever seen.
I can deal with your ridiculous and baseless name-calling and your obvious lack of knowledge of the sport of figure skating, but abuse of the semi-colon is where I draw the line. :frus:

texassk8r

01-22-2006, 08:59 PM

Maria Callas? Are you kidding? Maria Callas was an opera star and the long time mistress of Aristotle Onassis before he married Jackie Kennedy.

loveskating

01-23-2006, 07:56 AM

A.H.Black

01-23-2006, 10:08 AM

If I can go back to the subject of byes, the discussion on the history of byes seems to always center on Nancy Kerrigan in 1994. There are many other examples of byes as well.

Meno and Sand - 1998 (pulled out due to injury before the free program)
Todd Eldredge - 1992 (withdrew ffrom all of Nationals with a bad back)
Christopher Bowman - 1990 (withdrew before free program with injury)

All of these had their own scenarios. Christopher Bowman's bye was for Worlds and the bye rule was different then. Todd Eldredge was criticized for doing a tour right before Nationals instead of taking care of an injury that led to the bad back. When he did compete at Olympics, he didn't skate his best and an argument could be made that he shouldn't have been on the team.

The argument used by the USFSA in picking the team is that they want to send a team that is most likely to win medals for the USA. In 1992, the alternate was Mark Mitchell. Would Mark have been more likely to win a medal than Todd? Probably not. Actually, Paul Wylie, who did win a medal, was left off the Worlds team in favor of Mark Mitchell. That was the compromise worked out at Nationals and it wasn't changed even after Paul won his medal.

Each bye left someone else off the team. Anyone who is in a position to petition for a by is probably going to cause a heated discussion. I believe this year's team, as it is presently constituted, has the best chance of winning medals for the USA.

If someone wants to change the bye process in order to "give someone else a chance" then you must change the basic premise that the USA chooses teams with Olympic Medals in mind. It's a nice thought that people deserve chances to go to the Olympics, but I don't think the USFSA or the USOC are going to drop the idea of winning medals any time soon. Nor do I think the American public would support any effort to do so. Is it wrong for the USA to want to win medeals? That's topic for another discussion.

likes2skate

01-23-2006, 10:15 AM

ROFL, the Kwaniacs are outraged!! So sorry. Don't mean to offend, but I have this thing where I have to tell the truth as Isee it.

Seeking a bye that you know will result in someone else being bumped is selfish when you do not need to win an OGM at all.

That is one part of what I said -- I also said that people ought not to hate MK or dislike her for acting like a spoiled brat.

As for ANY other skater, yes, if they behaved precisely like Kwan in the situations Kwan has, I'd criticize them.

Oh jeez, quit being so dramatic, no one is outraged except you. Just because someone does not agree with your opinion does not mean they are outraged and offended.

And it is funny you actually wrote that comment, because if someone says one negative thing about Ms. Cohen, you fly off the deep end and start criticizing other skaters who have nothing to do with the topic.:??

iskatealot

01-23-2006, 11:42 AM

You know what? Michelle Kwan probably should go to the Olympics. She has skated for a long time and shes done very well for herself. But if she doesnt go, that a great chance for someother skaters, so I really dont think anyone should be really mad if she doesnt go.
Michelle Kwan has proved the fact that if you work hard enough you can stay at pretty much the top of your game for 3 Olympics. Michelle isnt going to stick around for another Olympic season so let her have this one last season to remember...The ONLY thing I would be upset wit, would be if the judges decided to give Michelle a medal just to thank her for sticking it out the last 12 years. That wouldnt be fair.

The other thing I have to say is that, if Michelle doesnt get to go, think of the great chance that Emily Hughes is getting. She should get a chance to prove herself at the Olympics. Maybe that would at least bring her out of her sister's shadow a bit?? I feel bad for her. I talked to her last year at Jr. Worlds where they introduced her as "The Little Sister of the Reigning Olympic Champion" I mean jee....wouldnt you just love to be doing well at a big international competition and then have someone remind you of your famous older sibling???? I think she probably deserves the chance just as much as the woman who already has 2 olympic medals?

There probably isnt a right way to decide who gets the spot....maybe it would be better if there were 5 spots for every country at the olympics....but then maybe the person in 6th deserves the chance??? Maybe there shouldnt even be restrictions on who can skate....that would make it way more fair dont you think?

loveskating

01-23-2006, 11:59 AM

Oh jeez, quit being so dramatic, no one is outraged except you. Just because someone does not agree with your opinion does not mean they are outraged and offended.

And it is funny you actually wrote that comment, because if someone says one negative thing about Ms. Cohen, you fly off the deep end and start criticizing other skaters who have nothing to do with the topic.:??

Really? Well, I guess being accused of abuse of the semi-colon was more outrage than my poor little heart coud take.

Kwan is a diva, a spoiled brat! There, I said it again? I think her her heart of hearts, she wants people to know how smart she has played her cards, her gamesmanship, her various ploys -- and I suspect she has nothing but contempt for her worshippers!

sktnstyl

01-23-2006, 12:28 PM

I am sure this has been address prior to now but let us not forget that alot of dollars have already been spent on the Olympic coverage to show Michelle in the ads, for a variety of sponsors. The injury bye is there for her and anyone else who needs it and I believe we all need to be reminded that she (Michelle )is a 9 time National champion

likes2skate

01-23-2006, 01:00 PM

Really? Well, I guess being accused of abuse of the semi-colon was more outrage than my poor little heart coud take.

Kwan is a diva, a spoiled brat! There, I said it again? I think her her heart of hearts, she wants people to know how smart she has played her cards, her gamesmanship, her various ploys -- and I suspect she has nothing but contempt for her worshippers!

Your problem is that you lump posters together. I didn't say anything about a semi colon, so why on earth would you talk to me about it? I don't "care" if you think MK is a diva, I just happen to disagree with you, and decided to have a discussion about it with you about, and you are talking to me about a semi-colon, for some odd reason.

Also FYI, not everyone who enjoys MK's skating is a worshipper, so quit generalizing. I like figure skating and I like MK, but it is not my reason for breathing. I actually am more of a die hard Philadelpia Eagles fan. :cry:

And finally I probably woudl agree with your last statement, but maybe not use the word "contempt". Maybe embarrassed?

daisies

01-23-2006, 01:34 PM

crayonskater

01-23-2006, 04:56 PM

Remember, the relevant standard for 'Cohen-bashing' is 'She flutzes.' and the relevant standard for 'calling it as I see it is' is 'OMG KWAN IS A SPOILED BRAT.' Bashing bananas and all, to my mind, but then I don't have the behind the scenes access into Evil Kwan World where she bribes the judges, sticks pins into pictures of her fans, and eats babies. (You have to admit, at least, it's not disliking of her skating driving the conspiracy theory that Kwan hates all her fans secretly.)

Nothing wrong with being partisan, but please avoid pretending it's objectivity.

She may be hanging on too long (the USFSA disagrees), but she hasn't been publicly demanding a spot or talking down the American competition, or really anything spoiled except, well, taking advantage of a petition system that other spoiled brat like Eldredge, Sand & Meno, Bowman, Bobek, etc., didn't attempt to use. Oh, and Irina. And you can bet if Sasha's back injury had flare up she would have used it, too. Who wouldn't? It's in the rules! (And, if we're counting only from last year, she skipped the GP, too, so it's only that lone second place at Worlds...)

On the topic at hand, it was an interesting piece, but I think a bit wrong-headed. Athletes shouldn't be forced to compete injured, true, but that doesn't mean that judges can easily select a team of non-competitors on the basis that they would be better if they weren't injured. While there shouldn't be pressure on athletes to work through injuries, it's really hard to see how that's not going to happen in the real world.

Better, perhaps, to include more than one competition as 'qualifying'; in some sports the Olympic representatives are chosen by whoever earns the most points over a year, where points come from succeeding at competitions (like NASCAR, sort of.) The competitions could be weighted differently (say, Worlds is worth 2 Nationals and Nationals is worth 2 GP victories, or something), and then the points totals would determine the top three. If you skip the GP, you take a risk; if you do well in the GP but finish 4th at Nationals, you could still make the team.

Laetitia_Hubert

01-23-2006, 05:33 PM

This thread is so entertaining! Whether MK wins gold or flops at the Olympics she's definately adding some much needed suspense and drama to the event and for that I am truly thankful!:bow:

EastonSkater

01-23-2006, 08:06 PM

Yep, let's just face it. Michelle Kwan is a powerful skater, and she's good. Really good. She doesn't even need to qualify to go to the olympics. They should just reserve a place for her and ask her if she's up to it or not. She doesn't need to show proof, because we've all seen what she can do.

daisies

01-23-2006, 08:15 PM

loveskating

01-23-2006, 08:18 PM

... The injury bye is there for her and anyone else who needs it and I believe we all need to be reminded that she (Michelle )is a 9 time National champion

Oh no, no, no, do we REALLY have to be reminded yet again of Kwan's past titles and medals? OOOWweeeoooouuuuuueeee! I think I'm gonna barf!

Your problem is that you lump posters together. I didn't say anything about a semi colon, so why on earth would you talk to me about it?

Well, I wasn't speaking to you precisely on that --but if I lump things together, its that dad gumed 3 post limitation that makes me do it! Great post of yours otherwise.:bow:

... Nothing wrong with being partisan, but please avoid pretending it's objectivity.

First of all, I never claimed that saying Kwan is a spoiled brat is "objective" -- such a descriptive phrase is by its very nature subjective and unprovable. Nevertheless, in my opinion, Kwan has become quite the diva and is a spoiled brat -- this often happens to great skaters (and great singers) but for her sake, I hope she gets her feet back on the ground. (Don't you even GET IT? You cannot be a diva unless you are great, truly great!)

Second, I wonder why you cannot address the part where I said that Kwan being a spoiled brat was no reason to dislike or much less hate her?

What a strange little world you live in where calling someone a spoiled brat is so awful! That is not my world. Its a commonly used warning, given most often to beloved people! I suspect Kwan would know that, considering where she came from, i.e. a working class neighborhood.

Third, MADAM, I never said that saying Sasha flutzes was bashing her! Sasha flutzes, I do not deny it, never have. Kwan flutzes; Irina flutzes; Sarah flutzes; Tara flutzed; and IMHO Viktoria Volchkova DID NOT FLUTZ at all -- but she did lip -- IMHO those are facts.

loveskating

01-23-2006, 08:58 PM

Oh good grief -- its a fact that if Kwan had not asked for a bye, she could not have been given one! '

You know, I think perhaps the people running this show grew up on a farm and think we are all ignorant like folks were back then?

crayonskater

01-23-2006, 09:35 PM

What a strange little world you live in where calling someone a spoiled brat is so awful!

Oh, it's a term of endearment? Warms my heart right up, I know, I often say it to my sisters when I think they could use cheering up. :roll: It's replaced I love you, as a common greeting. All those people on the Katy Taylor thread were enthusiastically applauding her love of Hummers when they said she was a spoiled brat.

Oh, wait. I get it. You're in a position, through close friendship, to deliver a warning to Michelle for getting uppity! If that's the case, tell her I didn't like the straps on her white costume and found them distracting.

Look, if in your opinion, Michelle is a spoiled brat for taking advantage of an option available to all skaters and posing it in a respectful manner, all well and good, but it seems a little bit screwy. I'm not a huge Kwan fan, but intimating that she secretly despises her fan base would normally require evidence. I'm not seeing a lot of divahood here, other than not partcipating in a GP that Cohen bailed on, too.

She's been extraordinarily gracious in public; usually 'acting like a diva' requires some sort of public evidence. (Writing a biography calling yourself a champion when you've never won a major senior competition, maybe?) She didn't demand a spot, she didn't put down other skaters, she's basically played this about as straight as one could given her injury. If you don't believe she was truly injured, again, some evidence would be nice. If you think she should have simply not asked for a bye, well, I would have preferred a graceful exit, too, but let's be realistic. The option is there presumably so athletes can use it; these sorts of challenges are quite common in sports where all-star or similar teams are combined.

I agree the system isn't ideal, but that's like blaming skaters for the judging.

Good, then Kwan's outrageous flutz will finally get marked down! 6.0 INDEED! She has NEVER achieved an outside edge, the best she can get is the flat, EVER! So why don't you bash her?

My bad. When you used the word 'bash', by the normal rules of conversational implicature, that indicated you believed people were 'bashing' Cohen. I should have been following the ' new improved spoiled brat is nice rules of implicature' which apparently indicates whatever the heck the speaker later decides.

I agree, MK is a spoiled brat, LOL! She used to be a kid from my side of the tracks, and I felt for her; but now she is someone who wants her own way for the sake of it, money, money, money and who has no respect or care for her own successors; now I see her as a worse diva than Maria Callas, the worst diva in skating I've ever seen.

MK does not need an OGM, not at all. If she did, I'd have more sympathy for her bumping Emily.

But overall, I still love her. Ya gotta love Kwan -- but no way am I going to sanction or go along with some of her behavior! <snip>
......Seeking a bye that you know will result in someone else being bumped is selfish when you do not need to win an OGM at all.

That is one part of what I said -- I also said that people ought not to hate MK or dislike her for acting like a spoiled brat.

Not in your original post there, sorry. I'm seeing a lot of 'money money money' a lot of 'Maria Callas' a lot of 'worst diva in skating ever', not so much the signs that these are lovetaps from a concerned friend. Now, you're right, you didn't tell us all to go forth and dislike Michelle. But as I didn't say you did, I'm wondering why you're bothering to argue that.

EastonSkater

01-23-2006, 10:42 PM

Oh no, no, no, do we REALLY have to be reminded yet again of Kwan's past titles and medals? OOOWweeeoooouuuuuueeee! I think I'm gonna barf!

Could it be that you and Daisies are jealous of michelle kwan?

iceskater2

01-24-2006, 06:13 AM

All of this hostility over Olympic Gold. What has it done for the last 2 winners Tara has not been seen for years and Sarah skated 2 programs in her recent special and managed to do 1 jump in each program. I will say her overall basic skating skills did improve a lot.

If Kwan wants to go to the olympics and she is healthy and the judges think
her programs are olympic quality then She deserves to go.

You bet I am a Kwan fan and proud of it. I am a Cohen fan as well. There are people who enjoy the talents of both. Hard to believe reading all the posts on this board.

The public as well as the skating community have placed such high importance on the elusive olympic gold, so if it means your efforts and talent mean nothing unless you happen to skate the program of your life on two nights in the right place and the right time then so be it. Perhaps if sport would reward Olympic Gold Medals for overall achievements then Kwan would have retired long ago and you would be satisfied with sub standard performances from those new up and coming skaters you are defending.

My .02 go ahead and bash away.

loveskating

01-24-2006, 08:18 AM

loveskating

01-24-2006, 08:24 AM

Oh, it's a term of endearment? Warms my heart right up, I know, I often say it to my sisters when I think they could use cheering up. :roll:

Not exactly, dear...:roll: telling someone you love that they are acting like a spoiled brat is not meant to cheer them up, rather its a wake up call, its trying to help them get their feet back on the ground.

Obviously, you have never been a mother and i have.

peshu

01-24-2006, 10:48 AM

Well, I rather agree, which is why I wonder why Kwan is after an OGM when she already has top name recognition, she is rich as sin, and has so many medals she could melt them down into a lawn statue?

Her "quest" has become so esoteric, I cannot fathom it, in fact.

I think Michelle's "quest" is to have the performance of her life, or at least one where she'd have no regrets over how she skated, at the Olympics, not necessarily to get the gold medal. I'm sure she'd love to add the gold medal to her collection, but I think what is driving her is that her prior Olympic performances were disappointing to her; in '98 she was overly cautious, and in '02 she fell and generally didn't skate well for her. When Sarah Hughes came off the ice at SLC, she exclaimed that she had never skated that well before. That's what Michelle wants too - the feeling that regardless of final outcome, you skated your absolute best when it counted the most. JMHO, of course.

loveskating

01-24-2006, 11:03 AM

I think Michelle's "quest" is to have the performance of her life, or at least one where she'd have no regrets over how she skated, at the Olympics, not necessarily to get the gold medal. I'm sure she'd love to add the gold medal to her collection, but I think what is driving her is that her prior Olympic performances were disappointing to her; in '98 she was overly cautious, and in '02 she fell and generally didn't skate well for her. When Sarah Hughes came off the ice at SLC, she exclaimed that she had never skated that well before. That's what Michelle wants too - the feeling that regardless of final outcome, you skated your absolute best when it counted the most. JMHO, of course.

I'd buy that, but I cannot since IMHO she is well past her peak, and her great skates are in her past -- I honestly don't see how she can top them. The best she can do is win because better, more accomplished skaters faltered whereas in 2000 and 2001, at Worlds for instance, MK was truly the best.

I find it sad, because overall she is among my all time faves, and I don't like seeing her do all this.

daisies

01-24-2006, 01:22 PM

Could it be that you and Daisies are jealous of michelle kwan?
Me? Why would you think I was jealous? I've been nothing but supportive of Michelle Kwan. My "yawn" above was sarcasm -- as in "same old, same old" -- directed at what seemed like a sarcastic Kwan bash. If it wasn't, my bad.

EastonSkater

01-24-2006, 04:45 PM

Me? Why would you think I was jealous? I've been nothing but supportive of Michelle Kwan. My "yawn" above was sarcasm -- as in "same old, same old" -- directed at what seemed like a sarcastic Kwan bash. If it wasn't, my bad.

Yeah...I eventually half-figured that out after checking some of your support comments. I figured that you might have thought I was being sarcastic. Actually, I was, but sarcastic as in knowing that they'd never allow michelle kwan to just go to the olympics without doing the formalities....like qualifying, but I reckon that she's proven herself time after time...given us more than enough proof and evidence that she's good enough to skate at the olympics as long as she says she is up to it. She's an amazing talent.

iceskater2

01-24-2006, 06:00 PM

I think Michelle's "quest" is to have the performance of her life, or at least one where she'd have no regrets over how she skated, at the Olympics, not necessarily to get the gold medal. I'm sure she'd love to add the gold medal to her collection, but I think what is driving her is that her prior Olympic performances were disappointing to her; in '98 she was overly cautious, and in '02 she fell and generally didn't skate well for her. When Sarah Hughes came off the ice at SLC, she exclaimed that she had never skated that well before. That's what Michelle wants too - the feeling that regardless of final outcome, you skated your absolute best when it counted the most. JMHO, of course.

Peshu, I think you are right. :bow: Curious how many of the posters in this thread actually skate? I did skate and I had one performance that was great and I chased that feeling for years and could never get it again. Perhaps that is what Michelle is trying to find.

I had a conversation with Mr. Kwan one afternoon months before the 2002 olympics, He made a statement that I spent a long time pondering and have asked myself the same question again recently.

MR KWAN:
"I am not sure I truly understand why Michele continues to skate like she does. Could she possibility gain greater recognition or fame with the olympic medal?"

For weeks after this conversation I asked strangers who Michelle Kwan was, they all knew.

So here we are with the same question in 2006. If her father did not truly understand the drive, how can we.

Lise

01-24-2006, 06:26 PM

I admire Michelle for staying amateur all these years and her spirit of competition. When I heard she was going to petition for a spot on the Olympic team, I didn't know what to think; should she be granted a spot and which criteria to base it on or do I feel bad for the person that came in 3rd.

It is no secret that all competitors at US Nationals came to the competition with one thing in mind: try to make the Olympic team. Everyone has an equal chance to make the team.

Michelle has accomplished a lot in her young life, including medalling in 2 Olympics. However, the one thing that does concern me, is her lack of participation on the GP circuit for the past few seasons. Everyone talks about her coming in 4th at Worlds last year and based on her great accomplishments from before that she deserves a spot on the team.

However, many of her accomplishments were acheived under the old 6.0 system. This can be very disconcerning as she is being forced to adapt to a new system which rewards difficulty technically. No one has really seen Michelle skate since last Worlds; a lot of time has gone by as well, and the COP has undergone a few changes. Yes, she will be monitored; however, by keeping this secret, how do we really know the criterion they are looking for? What happens if she doesn't skate well or below her usual standard? We know that broadcasters are counting on her being there for name recognition; but will she be ready on time?

The Olympics are about the spirit of the human condition; they unite all people together. Yes, I understand why Michelle wants to go, but based on her limited experience with COP and her injuries this season, I don't want to see her more injured than before. However, I feel that she be judged based on what she's done this season; not her entire career. This season has been very limited for her. Her programs this season have not been judged by an international panel of judges as of yet.

The Olympics do not determine the size of team to send to Worlds; I can see the argument for Emily being selected as she did come in 3rd; she did participate on the GP circuit. People talk about her not being in the same league as Michelle; although that may be true, it should not discount the fact that she should be named to the Olympics team. Bad skate or not, she deserves a chance to go to the Olympics.

The consideration of her selection to the team through the medical bye is valid; it is an option for skaters. I just can't help but think that she was named to the team because on reputation. I just wish that they would have monitored her skating first and made a decision based on the session and to assess her readiness for the competition.

This is a very tough decision for anyone to make and not one to be made lightly. I hope the monitoring session goes well; however, if Michelle is not ready now, I doubt she will be ready on time for the Olympics. If she's not ready, I hope she has the courage to withdraw her petition and let someone else go.

Lise

Lark

01-24-2006, 06:44 PM

Seeking a bye that you know will result in someone else being bumped is selfish when you do not need to win an OGM at all.

loveskating, your banter is rediculous, and you know so little of what you speak.
In your posts, you sound like a 12 year old girl going "naa naa naa naa boo boo".

Fact is, Michelle had the right to request a bye; the USFSA had the right to decline her request; they did not; they named Michelle to the team.

The reason you are so angry is because an athlete who you personally do not like, for whatever reason, has played by the rules the whole time, and you have no real reason to complain about her.
Hence, you blow things out of proportion.

And I quoted you above because I would really like to know who you think ***NEEDS*** to win an OGM???

Let's see: Air, water, food, shelter, hmmmmmmm, oh, OGM! Almost forgot! :roll:

An Olympic medal is something you get for doing better on one occasion than everyone else.
It is not a god-given necessity to have a medal.....

daisies

01-24-2006, 06:59 PM

People talk about [Emily] not being in the same league as Michelle; although that may be true, it should not discount the fact that she should be named to the Olympics team. Bad skate or not, she deserves a chance to go to the Olympics.
Bad skate or not? Wouldn't that apply to pretty much everyone? With that logic, everyone deserves to go. You seem to be basing your argument on the fact that Emily was 3rd at Nationals, but you are discounting that there is no rule that says the 3rd place skater at Nationals gets to go to the Olympics. With that in mind, why is Emily so deserving of an Olympic berth? If your only argument is because she was 3rd at Nationals, that's not enough. USFS's own rules say so.

However, I feel that [Michelle should] be judged based on what she's done this season; not her entire career. This season has been very limited for her. Her programs this season have not been judged by an international panel of judges as of yet.
That is true. At the same time, however, Emily's programs at the senior level HAVE been judged by an international panel of judges -- and she never made the podium! So I'll ask again: Why is Emily so deserving of that Olympic berth?

iceskater2

01-24-2006, 07:38 PM

Few things I have noticed:

1. Not one person complained that spoilers from Nationals were posted in the General Forum.
2. Few if any topics are discussing favorites for the olympics
3. The only live topic on this entire board are the topics that discuss Michelle Kwan.

Like her or not Michelle Kwan is the only skater who seems to spark any emotion on this board lately.....................

So I am curious when the panel makes it discision on friday what the hot topic will become? Here are some of my opinions:

She goes:
Oh how awful Michelle is taking that spot away from Emily I hope she fails.

She does not go because the panel decides she is not ready:
I do not envision this happening not because I think the panel will automatically send her but I DO believe they will allow her to withdraw on her own without announcing to the public that her programs are substandard. Yes that coming from a die hard Kwan fan who has taken 2 weeks of vacation during the olympics because I want her to skate and win.

She passes the panel and decides on her own that she will not compete due to injury or any other reasons:

Of course it will be she knows she can not win and is trying now to save face.

Let me be the first to start a new direction for this topic:

The olympic opening ceremonies are only 17 days away. I am so excited for them to start. With or without Michelle I know I will love watching all the skaters. I do not have cable so I have not seen a lot of this years programs. In a way I am excited about that because for the first time I will be watching the competition without any favorite programs.

Chico

01-24-2006, 09:40 PM

I hope Michelle goes to the Olympics because she feels like she can and wants to. The things we regret most in life are the things we didn't do. Win or lose she should go for it if she can. It's sad not to win but even worse not even to try. Your heart gets over mistakes....it tends to hold onto to dreams. She'll never really know if she doesn't try and neither will we. In my opinion Michelle has nothing to lose but everything to gain. I respect effort not a gold medal.

Chico

loveskating

01-25-2006, 07:59 AM

And I quoted you above because I would really like to know who you think ***NEEDS*** to win an OGM???

Kwan already has everything an OGM can bring and then some, she does not need an OGM for fame, fortune, status, endorsements, ANYTHING. She has all that, why not let another American have a shot at that? Same could only help American skating!!

Me, personally, I could give a hoot who wins medals of ANY kind -- medals mean absolutely nothing to me, I am impressed by great skating, not someone who is merely consistent on the jumps, I am someone who prefers ALexander Abt to even Yagudin, although I love him too. I like it when the Worlds and Olympics are won by the best skaters, is all, but that does not happen all the time.

Your mistake is that you think I am speaking personally, when I am making an ANALYSIS! You are perhaps so blinded by fandom that you cannot see the various scenarios that are being set up here.

Fine. Just don't deny those of us who perhaps want an intelligent discussion. You can go to MKF to gush about Michelle Kwan.

EastonSkater

01-25-2006, 08:32 AM

Kwan already has everything an OGM can bring and then some, she does not need an OGM for fame, fortune, status, endorsements, ANYTHING. She has all that, why not let another American have a shot at that? Same could only help American skating!!

The fact is....she wants one, and achievement would be part of that reason for her wanting one. If she's up to it, then why not let her have a shot at that? And since she played by the rules, then there's no problem at all.

loveskating

01-25-2006, 08:47 AM

Lise

01-25-2006, 08:56 AM

That is true. At the same time, however, Emily's programs at the senior level HAVE been judged by an international panel of judges -- and she never made the podium! So I'll ask again: Why is Emily so deserving of that Olympic berth?

Because Emily came in 3rd at US Nationals and there are 3 spots available to the Games. Who cares if Emily medals or not? This has nothing to do with it; she should still have the right to participate and compete at the Games. Michelle winning a medal at these Games is not a guarantee either. No one is guaranteed a medal at these games.

Is the Olympic spot being given to her as a lifetime achievement award? Again, no one has really seen Michelle skate since last Worlds, we have no idea how her injury is healing and how she is skating.

I wish nothing but the best for her but you need to realize that there are a lot of factors involved in this decision making, I just hope that this decision was not made in haste.

loveskating

01-25-2006, 11:26 AM

The fact is....she wants one, and achievement would be part of that reason for her wanting one. If she's up to it, then why not let her have a shot at that? And since she played by the rules, then there's no problem at all.

Achieve what? More gamesmanship? Another piece of meaningless metal?

If MK could achieve more in her OWN skating, then I might buy that "achievement" argument. But Kwan, if anything, removes difficulty, including from her 98 Rach as skated in 2002 and at SLC!!!

Meantime, Irina, Sasha, and others up their difficulty.

ice-princess

01-25-2006, 11:41 AM

Achieve what? More gamesmanship? Another piece of meaningless metal?

Loveskating, I've got a question for you: Are you actually an ice skater? One who competes? If not, I think you'e got a fairly shallow view of what the world of competitive skating is like- from the skaters point of view.

loveskating

01-25-2006, 01:44 PM

Loveskating, I've got a question for you: Are you actually an ice skater? One who competes? If not, I think you'e got a fairly shallow view of what the world of competitive skating is like- from the skaters point of view.

That is not relevant, or worse, its an attempt to change the subject -- a trick.

One would think that in figure skating, achievement is on the ice -- and Kwan has nothing more to give, IMHO, in the amateur ranks, and has not for some time, ON THE ICE.

Neither does Irina, IMHO, but she is at least keeping and even rasing her level of difficulty, she is still achieving something besides hype and the astute use of political power.

daisies

01-25-2006, 03:31 PM

Because Emily came in 3rd at US Nationals and there are 3 spots available to the Games. Who cares if Emily medals or not? This has nothing to do with it.
OK, I'm sorry, but you have shown your hand -- you know nothing about skating.

Winning medals has everything to do with it. The U.S. Figure Skating International Committee's sole purpose is to choose teams who will win medals. They make no bones about that; it's a public fact. It's stated at every single Governing Council. You may not like it -- and you obviously didn't even know about it -- but that is their mission, plain and simple.

And I don't know how many times this can be stated before you're going to understand it, but it doesn't matter that Emily came in 3rd. If Nationals were the Olympic trials and the rules stated that the top 3 placers earned Olympic berths, then, yes, it would matter.

HOWEVER, this is the real world, and the fact is that Nationals are NOT the Olympic trials and the rules clearly state that only the national champion is guaranteed a berth.

It boggles my mind that this is so hard for some people to understand. It's written in plain English too.

I wish nothing but the best for her but you need to realize that there are a lot of factors involved in this decision making.
Am I in the twilight zone? I think you're the one who needs to realize that there are a lot of factors involved in the decision. You seem to be basing it on Nationals placement alone.

I'm going to leave you all to it. I can't handle "arguments" that have no basis in common sense.

loveskating

01-25-2006, 03:48 PM

OK, I'm sorry, but you have shown your hand -- you know nothing about skating.

Winning medals has everything to do with it. The U.S. Figure Skating International Committee's sole purpose is to choose teams who will win medals.

May be, but they don't seem to get it right very often, now do they?

Just answer this question: If Kwan had not asked for the bye, would Emily be bumped?

The answer is no, absolutely not!

The operator, the mover here, is Kwan. The USFSA did not ask her to seek a bye, and for all you know, the majority could be against it! They might see it as blackmail for all you or I know!

daisies

01-25-2006, 04:06 PM

Just answer this question: If Kwan had not asked for the bye, would Emily be bumped?

The answer is no, absolutely not!

The operator, the mover here, is Kwan. The USFSA did not ask her to seek a bye, and for all you know, the majority could be against it! They might see it as blackmail for all you or I know!

I know I said I was gone, but I just had to say that's the dumbest thing I have ever read. Thank you for outing yourself.

Peace.

Lise

01-25-2006, 04:06 PM

ok since you choose to bash me I'll play your childish games.

Of course, everyone wants to win medals; everyone dreams of it, however, no one is GUARANTEED a medal at the Games. Can anyone guarantee that Michelle will win a medal? No. I'm not saying she won't, but given the fact that she has not competed all season, is injured, in all likelihood she won't be near the podium. If she proves me wrong, so be it.

I couldn't care less who the US sends to the Games! However to me, if a person earned their spot to the team, they should be named. What are they basing Michelle's spot on? Reputation? It would be a completely different story had Michelle participated in the GP's this season and then withdrew for Nats; then I can understand them giving her a spot. However, Michelle has not competed in GP's for the past few seasons; she chose not to. She's only competed at Worlds, cheesefests and Nationals.

Samskate

01-25-2006, 04:29 PM

Sheesh! How many times and in how many different ways can you people say the same thing?:frus:

EastonSkater

01-25-2006, 06:06 PM

She's only competed at Worlds....

Oh....so you reckon that 'worlds' means nothing? Hang on....I've got to clasp my hands over my mouth to stop myself from laughing too much here.

EastonSkater

01-25-2006, 06:09 PM

Another piece of meaningless metal?

Your thoughts are highly questionable from what you just said there.

crayonskater

01-25-2006, 08:19 PM

Blackmail? Yeesh. The list of crimes without evidence grows longer..... the majority are against it and confirmed it 20-3?

I'm not sure financials figured into the decision that much; I certainly hope not. But a talented publicist could spin a rejection of Kwan from the team into publicity gold and manage to sell Sasha as a convincing replacement (especially now that she's won the world title). It certainly wouldn't have been the first time a favorite hasn't made the Olympic team.

iskatealot

01-26-2006, 07:38 AM

Oh....so you reckon that 'worlds' means nothing? Hang on....I've got to clasp my hands over my mouth to stop myself from laughing too much here.

Ok Worlds is a really big competition, its almost as important to everyone as GASP the Olympics!!! But worlds is just one competition. If chosing the team can't be based just on Nationals, then it can't be based just on Worlds either...

loveskating

01-26-2006, 08:57 AM

Your thoughts are highly questionable from what you just said there.

Really? Its not the metals per se, it is what they represent, and if you come by them with substandard skating, you know it, and everyone who actually skates knows it.

I'm out of here -- these Kwaniacs are propagandizing and deamonizing, not discussing. They like to deamonize and drive everyone off the net who does not adore MK, and that alone just shows how corrupt they are because they must think that her skating cannot stand up to honest and informed debate.

EastonSkater

01-26-2006, 09:37 AM

loveskating.....it's not that ... it's just the fact that you're conjuring things up about anything and everything to put down michelle kwan. And you're ignoring the facts that everyone is explaining to you...that michelle played by the rules, and that the committee chose her for a logical reason.

crayonskater

01-26-2006, 09:42 AM

Last I checked, 'Kwaniac' means 'disagrees with loveskating that Kwan hates her fans and must have had blackmail on the USFSA.'

Even if I were a Kwaniac (I'm not quite sure what that means normally), no one here is attempting to drive you off the Internet; heck we haven't even been saying MADAM, questioning whether you're a mother or not, or accusing you of 'tricks'.

Samskate

01-26-2006, 11:38 AM

LOL, crayonskater! Don't forget "dear". How patronizing can people be?:roll:

likes2skate

01-26-2006, 12:33 PM

I couldn't care less who the US sends to the Games! However to me, if a person earned their spot to the team, they should be named. What are they basing Michelle's spot on? Reputation? It would be a completely different story had Michelle participated in the GP's this season and then withdrew for Nats; then I can understand them giving her a spot. However, Michelle has not competed in GP's for the past few seasons; she chose not to. She's only competed at Worlds, cheesefests and Nationals.

How did Emily earn her spot? By getting 3rd at Nationals? Per the USFSA, that does not earn you a spot on the team. Only the National Champion earns their spot at the National Championships.

They are most likely basing her spot on her 4th place finish at the world championships, vs Emily's third place at Jr. World Championships. I do not believe either skater skated in any other events that are listed in the criteria for choosing a team member.

The GP events are not included in the selection criteria, just the GPF from the current year, which MK and EH did not compete in.

Also, MK's short and long programs were scored higher than Emily ever scored under COP.

Based on the current rules that the USFSA has in place, I think it is fair that MK was named to the team. :lol:

Now, if you do not agree with the current rules, than that is different, but it is not MK's fault that the rules work to her advantage.

I believe these rules have been in place for oevr 10 years to, so how come no one ever cared before this month?:P

Lark

02-01-2006, 08:35 PM

I just do not get why so many people want an athlete who has a legitimate chance to medal in Turino to be refused a bye?

Michelle likely does not have the mental stamina to attain an OGM, but she more than likely could squeek through with a Silver or Bronze with an okay skate.

Why are so many people on here jealous of Michelle and her abilities?

EastonSkater

02-01-2006, 09:13 PM

Why are so many people on here jealous of Michelle and her abilities?

Not sure... maybe due to jealousy, or even racism, or just not understanding the rules of team selection.

dbny

02-01-2006, 09:49 PM

Why are so many people on here jealous of Michelle and her abilities?

Why do you attribute negative opinions of Michelle to jealousy? IMO, neither Michelle nor Hughes have a very good chance of even medalling. Nevertheless, I think Michelle is the best choice for the greater good of US figure skating. Her popularity is unrivalled in the US, and the more Americans who watch figure skating, the better our chances of having more figure skating to watch in the future.

Schmeck

02-01-2006, 09:55 PM

Really? Its not the metals per se, it is what they represent, and if you come by them with substandard skating, you know it, and everyone who actually skates knows it.

I'm out of here -- these Kwaniacs are propagandizing and deamonizing, not discussing. They like to deamonize and drive everyone off the net who does not adore MK, and that alone just shows how corrupt they are because they must think that her skating cannot stand up to honest and informed debate.

I love when the pot calls the kettle black, LOL! It's been fun reading these posts, and watching loveskating go crazy while almost everyone else, on both sides of the issue, remains sane and logical...

Lark

02-03-2006, 10:21 PM

I agree.
I close my eyes and picture loveskating jumping up and down on the floor, screeching, like a child needing to be sent to bed. LOLOLOLOL

The points are fairly simple, and not arguable, IMO:

1) Michelle is the most well-known Eligible American female skater. Very few people outside of hard-core skating viewers know who Sasha, Irina or any of the other girls are.

2) Michelle is the 9 time National Champion, and would have no doubt won her 10th National Championship had she not been recovering from injury.

3) Michelle is a 5 time World Champion.

4) Michelle was given a choice of asking for a Bye. It was within the rules. If you think bad about her for taking advantage of that, then maybe look at it as her "getting even" with the USFSA for bumping her in 1994, in favor of Nancy. 8-)

5) Michelle has earned her spot on the OLympic team. She has followed the rules. She has played the game. She did what any skater would have done: Taking a chance at winning Gold at the Olympics.

In closing, the hostility shown toward Michelle is "sour grapes".

Why does no one bash Kurt Browning for screwing up and not winning an Olympic medal?

Why does no one curse Brian Boitano for bumping Todd Eldredge off of the 1994 team? Did Brian have a RIGHT to come back in search of ANOTHER chance at ANOTHER OGM?

What about G&G, or Katarina Witt? How dare THEY try to steal a spot from a more deserving skater?

Fact is, if Michelle had competed at Nationals, she would have easily placed in the Top 2, she would have gone to the Olympics anyways.

At least by her dropping out of the Nationals, due to injury, she gave Emily a chance to win her first, and I am sure not last, National medal.

Why not look at it like that? :halo:

PrayingForIrina

02-03-2006, 11:37 PM

To have Michelle come in like the spoiled brat she is and just get a spot. Is far from fair

Why are you calling her a brat? Do you know her personally? :??

stardust skies

02-04-2006, 04:49 AM

Really? Well, I guess being accused of abuse of the semi-colon was more outrage than my poor little heart coud take.

Kwan is a diva, a spoiled brat! There, I said it again? I think her her heart of hearts, she wants people to know how smart she has played her cards, her gamesmanship, her various ploys -- and I suspect she has nothing but contempt for her worshippers!

Somewhere on this board I have said that I enjoyed your posts other than the one that pissed me off and that I replied to. I take it back; I don't enjoy your posts. I'm not sure if you recently started making this many childish posts or if I just hadn't noticed before recently. Either way, I take it back. I feel like a hypocrit having written somewhere that I enjoy what you have to say and then wanting to peel my skin off my face everytime I read anything you write.

"Michelle doesn't need an OGM"...hah. I love how you decide what total strangers need and do not need for them. That's nice. :frus: If you think about it...NOBODY needs an OGM. No one. But I'm sure it's nice to have regardless.

stardust skies

02-04-2006, 04:50 AM

ITA! I hate the way athletes who compete in pain are held up to be great examples, overcoming adversity. In my opinion that's just plain stupid. When it concerns young people (gymnasts for example) it's verging on criminal!

Hmmm, well, obviously everyone feels differently about this, but speaking from personal experience, you just don't have a choice sometimes. My parents don't understand why I compete or train injured, and they get concerned about future repercussions, but the fact is that if I had to sit out every practice or competition in which I wasn't 100 percent healthy, then I'd never compete. I've competed with an ankle so sprained it had to be taped in order to stand upright, a hip injury, and a back strain (not all at once, thank God). And I'm sure I'm forgetting some other more minor things. But that's part of the game. You train your whole life for this. The preparation for any given competition is the reason you're injured, so you're not going to let the injury be for nothing and just skip out the event if there's even one chance for you to be able to get through your program!

Now obviously if you're wanting a trophy at some spotlight event at a recreational competition, and you get injured, then you skip it, who cares? But if you're going to Regionals for example...then skipping out due to injury means your entire season is over. Your year is over. You have trained for nothing, gotten injured for nothing, what are you going to do with yourself for the entire year? That's not something you just walk away from if you have a shot at qualifying. Same with Sectionals, and Nationals if you're that good that you could qualify for Worlds.

Every athlete at one point or another competes injured. I think it's a decision you make very early on, especially with figure skating- you will be injured, there will be a chance for lifelong damage to your body, and you will have to deal with pain on a regular basis. You will have to weigh the odds and make decisions at times, putting a certain competition ahead of your health. If you're not ready to do this, there is just really no reason to bother being serious about this (or any other) sport because you're never going to be at the top. Like Yagudin once said, if you're not ready to do it, someone else will, and they won't mind taking your place. This sport takes too much dedication, money, and time to just skip out on a qualifying competition and ruin your entire year. There's also an expiration date on everyone's body, so you gotta do it while you're still young and you don't have a whole year to waste. And who knows? Maybe the following year you'll be dealing with another injury...they happen all the time. You can't put things off like that. Not in sport.

I think this is only a mindset you may understand after having dealt with serious injuries and realized that you just can't sit out everytime something happens, because this sport is extremely demanding and you're more or less always battling with some kind of pain or injury somewhere, some time. You have to be smart about things, and if it is something incredibly serious that may end your career, then you have to stop and take care of it. But otherwise, deal with the pain for the competition, and take care of the injury afterwards, it's the only way.

Just thoughts from someone who's been there.

stardust skies

02-04-2006, 04:58 AM

She has all that, why not let another American have a shot at that? Same could only help American skating!!

Why not? Because singles freestyle skating is NOT a team sport, and you don't put your competition ahead of you. You've just never participated in competitive individual sports, have you? I think that's the core of the problem, you clearly do not understand the right of an athlete to compete for themselves. I have never in my entire life heard of an athlete being blamed for not letting someone else win a medal instead of them, except for Michelle Kwan. It is downright ridiculous. Only in figure skating, folks.

You leave Emily out of your remarks, as if she did not even exist. Unfortunately for Michelle, she does.

Actually, it's more like "unfortunately for Emily, Michelle exists", hah. Nobody but the gold medal winner of Nationals is guaranteed a spot for the Olympic team. You conveniently seem to keep forgetting, in all your crusades about poor Emily, that Michelle was the very 3rd place finisher who was left off the team in 1994 so another injured teammate could go. What goes around comes around. If she could stay at home when she placed top 3 at Nationals in an Olympic year, then so can Emily. Rules are rules.

May be, but they don't seem to get it right very often, now do they?

Considering how the Ladies Olympic Gold Medalist has been from the U.S. the past two Olympic games, I'd say they've done alright for themselves..:roll:

Tapper

02-04-2006, 11:18 AM

To have Michelle come in like the spoiled brat she is and just get a spot.

Michelle is not a "spoiled brat," and this is no place for character assassination.

Tapper

02-04-2006, 11:48 AM

Seeking a bye that you know will result in someone else being bumped is selfish when you do not need to win an OGM at all.

Maybe you should start a petition to add "need" to the list of elements the skaters are judged on. :??

Maligning Michelle's character by calling her "a spoiled brat" and saying that she is "selfish" seems to undercut your claim that you love her. It certainly doesn't sound like "love" to me.

iceskater2

02-05-2006, 07:42 AM

I heard an interesting commerical yesterday. It featured Cohen and Kwan.

One wants it to prove to world
One wants it to prove to herself

Seems to sum up this topic I must say. I was working around the house and only heard it did not see the graphics but I think we all know which is which.

loveskating

02-05-2006, 01:08 PM

Maybe you should start a petition to add "need" to the list of elements the skaters are judged on. :??

Maligning Michelle's character by calling her "a spoiled brat" and saying that she is "selfish" seems to undercut your claim that you love her. It certainly doesn't sound like "love" to me.

You have obviously never been a mother. I have told my child she was behaving like a spoiled brat at least several times, and I love my daughter to distraction!

You seem also to have fallen victim to what I call the Kwanworld Fandom Goddess Fantasy syndrome, because saying that a HUMAN BEING is behaving like a spoiled brat refers to BEHAVIOR, specific, limited behavior -- it does not go to the issue of character. Only gods are perfect, not figure skaters, not even Michelle Kwan.

In taking this Olympic spot from Emily, I think Kwan is behaving like a spoiled brat diva, and so do a lot of other people. That just means she has made an ethical mistake, IMHO, not that her character is bad overall.

However, I'm not at all sure that I love her anymore -- I respect her, I still love watching her great programs in the past, but she is tiring me out morally, demandnig of me that I violate principles I had long before I ever knew the name "Michelle Kwan". I'm not sure anymore.

PrayingForIrina

02-05-2006, 03:38 PM

In taking this Olympic spot from Emily, I think Kwan is behaving like a spoiled brat diva, and so do a lot of other people.

Michelle didn't "take" anything from anybody. Rules in the skating manual SPECIFICALLY STATE that anyone, ANYONE can ask for a bye and BOB HOREN is the one who makes the decision.

Only the NATIONAL CHAMPION is secured a spot. If you feel this way, you would have to agree that in 1994, Michelle was the National Silver Medalist and Nancy Kerrigan TOOK THE SPOT AWAY FROM MICHELLE KWAN. Kerrigan didn't earn her spot, she withdrew.

She also had a horrible season in 1993 leading up the 1994 Nationals.

daisies

02-05-2006, 03:55 PM

In taking this Olympic spot from Emily...
I have to agree with PrayingForIrina. To say a spot was "taken" from Emily implies she had it in the first place. She didn't. It's like when the media writes that Emily was "bumped off" the team -- how can you be bumped off a team you were never on?

I agree too about the Nancy Kerrigan thing. Nancy didn't compete at Nationals either, yet no one cried foul when Michelle wasn't named to that year's Olympic team. Some might say Nancy's situation was different. But injured is injured, and to those people I say, "You can't have your cake and eat it too."

EastonSkater

02-05-2006, 04:36 PM

loveskating ... could you please stop that slander on Michelle and the USFSA? You're conjuring up things about her in order to get your way in the argument, and you're ignoring the facts.....the fact that no rules have been broken. Michelle deserves that spot on the team. If she felt that she wasn't up to it, she wouldn't be putting herself there. This goes the same for USFSA....they wouldn't put her there if she didn't have the ability to perform well.

Tapper

02-05-2006, 11:19 PM

You have obviously never been a mother. I have told my child she was behaving like a spoiled brat at least several times, and I love my daughter to distraction!

:lol: One thing's for sure, I've never been a mother! :lol:

A mother's love... well, I think that chastizing your daughter, whom you obviously love very much, for acting like a "spoiled brat" is different from out and out calling someone who is not your child a "spoiled brat." In one situation it's chastisement, in the other I think it's name-calling. And in this situation it's name-calling published on the internet.

So, I respectfully disagree with your position that calling her "selfish" and a "spoiled brat" is not an attack on her character. I do now understand from what you've written that you didn't intend it as an attack on her character overall. However, I think that it still reads as a malignment. Just imagine if I were to write a college letter of recommendation for your daughter and under the topic of character and behavior I wrote "selfish and a spoiled brat, but otherwise of outstanding character"... there would be hell to pay, wouldn't there?

Just because I disagree with you about Kwan doesn't mean I have "fallen victim" to some "fantasy syndrome." I'm not going to go into my credentials in order to defend my mental capacity/integrity, but honestly, I feel insulted that because I challenge your assessment of Michelle's character that you suggest that I am a victim and suffering from a fantasy syndrome. Did you write that to insult me? :??

By the way, I know that no one is perfect. I was taught by the nuns, and everyone taught by the nuns knows that no one is perfect. :lol:

I'm sorry that you have been disappointed by Michelle Kwan, and that you can no longer enjoy her skating as you once did. You obviously were once a great fan of hers. But I still enjoy her skating, and I still think she is a national treasure, whether she wins a medal at the Olympics or not. We all enjoy and like different things, that doesn't mean that one of us is delusional and a victim of fantasies. Right?