Cohen coaching change official

[Debbie S]

The rumors are true.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-figs16aug16.story?coll=la%2Dheadlines%2Dsports

[Dustin]

Im really happy about this change. I think Tarasova can help Sasha with a lot of things Nicks couldn't. She also seems to have a more strict training regiment that Sasha would need.

[Debbie S]

The strange thing is, though: Does Sasha really need help with her presentation skills? If you think about it, generally the skaters Tarasova has helped so much recently (Kulik, Yagudin) have been strong tech skaters that needed polish and artistry. I think most would agree that Sasha's not lacking in those areas. It's been her jump problems/inconsistency and lack of speed/power/edge quality that have held her back. I imagine that Tarasova will help her in the edge dept., but I would think that Sasha needs a good tech coach, like Frank Carroll - not that he's available.

It's interesting that the article touches on Tarasova's political influence - I suspect that's the main motivation for the switch. Of course, the fact that Nicks is close to retirement may have played a role.

I wonder how Sasha will like the New England winters?

(don't get me wrong - I'm a fan of Sasha)

[Dustin]

I still think it would be a good change seeing she could still help Sasha's jumps better (all she really needs right now is consistency and a better lutz) and could make Sasha's programs stronger.

[Jenny]

TT has a talent for bringing out a skater's character and developing programs that showcase their strengths and challenge their abilities. I can't wait to see what she does with Sasha!

Jenny

[iskater13]

please paste the sory here...i am waiting for my password and it is not coming......share with us :0) LOL

[Dustin]

I dont want to quote the complete article, but here is the important part:

"Figure skater Sasha Cohen of Laguna Niguel, whose balletic grace propelled her to a second-place finish at this year's U.S. Championships and fourth place at the Salt Lake City Olympics, has left longtime coach John Nicks to work with Tatiana Tarasova and Nikolai Morozov in Newington, Conn.

Cohen will announce the switch today in a conference call with reporters."

And more from her official site:
http://www.sashacohen.com/newcoach.shtml

[kar5162]

Interesting. Hopefully it will be a good move for her. The bit on the website about needing better training conditions doesn't surprise me. Last summer when I was in California I went by the rink where she's been training. I was really surprised - the rink is small (maybe 195-85?) and not in great condition. Aside from only having one rink, the ice was (at least the day I skated) in terrible condition. With Ice Castle closing, I'm not surprised she's been looking for another place to train.

Kim

[Trillian]

Originally posted by Dustin
...to work with Tatiana Tarasova and Nikolai Morozov in Newington, Conn.

Newington? How often does Tarasova spend time there anymore? I was under the impression she was working mostly in Simsbury and other area rinks.

[Dustin]

I think Zmievskaya (SP?) or another Russian coach is in Simsbury, I heard that Tarasova was possibly going to change rinks but Im not sure if that is anything more than a rumor.

[RobinA]

I would not agree that Sasha doesn't need help in the areas of polish and artistry. She's OK in polish, but artistry and presentation need some help. Also choregraphy. And what Sasha REALLY needs from Tarasova is some feeling in her skating.

Anyway, I don't agree necessarily that Tarasova is a good place to get polish. Yags and Kulik both lacked polish in my opinion. I love Yags most of the time, but polish? No.

[AxelAnnie22]

O Man - I just hate it when skaters leave their long time coaches. :cry:
Yea, I know all the stuff, and I am sure it is a good move for her skating, but it just makes me so sad. Mr. Nicks did a wonderful job with her. What happened to loyalty?

Couldn't we just once see a skater with two coaches having a press conference where they announce that SkaterA and Coach X have both decided that it is time for skater A to move to the next phase of their skating, and they are happy to announce that Skater A will now be coached by Coach Z. There is no backbiting, no secrecy, no nothing. Just the next step.
:roll:

Well, that will probably happen when the ISU gets an award for fair and balanced judging!

[AxelAnnie22]

Originally posted by iskater13
please paste the sory here...i am waiting for my password and it is not coming......share with us :0) LOL

If you register with the LA Times (it is free) they immediately send you a confirmation by email (and I mean immediately). You simply click on the link in the email, and you are in!

[loveskating]

I think its great.

I see it from the skater's POV...there are things they need (like good ice, a good training situation etc.), and things they want to be able to do; they see someone else doing those things under another coach, and it just makes absolute sense to me that if they love skating, they will go for it.

Sasha has enormous talent, more talent than I've ever seen...and more passion to skate than I've ever seen...and Tarasova has produced more champions than any other coach I can think of. Tarasova is a true original, with a LOT of finesse, so I'm looking forward to enjoying the results of the collaboration.

To me, these coaches, all the pros are great...but they are not the skaters, and also, these coaches have lots of students...not just one.

BTW, I totally disagree that Kulik did not have "polish"...he had/has more polish than anyone I've ever seen...including on the jumps.

[Trillian]

Originally posted by Dustin
I think Zmievskaya (SP?) or another Russian coach is in Simsbury, I heard that Tarasova was possibly going to change rinks but Im not sure if that is anything more than a rumor.

Yes, Zmievskaya does still coach in Simsbury. However, I know for sure Tarasova has spent a fair amount of time there recently as well. I was just surprised that her official base is still Newington, since they don't seem to have much of anything (or anyone) there anymore.

[LilRedRidingHood]

I don't think anyone could deny that Tatiana can and does produce Champions. I think the collaboration will make a positive impact on Sasha is several ways.

My biggest concern about the move is that Sasha is going from being a star pupil in Nicks' stable to one of several star pupils in Tarasova's.

Will Sasha get the same amount of one on one time with Tarasova?

[Yazmeen]

While I feel bad for John Nicks, I also agree its a great move for Sasha. I think TT can really bring out the best in her and help her to improve her consistency. My, US Ladies are going to be INTERESTING this season, even if Michelle doesn't compete. What fun!

[adrianchew]

http://www.usfsa.org/news/2002-03/cohen-newcoach.htm

Shorter snipped release of what was posted on her website.

[jpeach]

Good for her! She needs that extra bit of discipline. And, with new training conditions, perhaps she'll have a larger training rink, thus improving her overall ice coverage. That has been one of the rare criticisms I've read about Sasha.

[Jimmy Hoffa]

I hope for her sake that she doesn't get the irrational psychotic hatred Michelle Kwan had to withstand for leaving Frank Carroll.

I wish her luck.

[hydro]

wow, i'm really excited about this! Sasha and Tarasova, could it get any better? :) her programs are going to be spectucular this season, and with Tarasova's political clout, i think we're going to be seeing Sasha as the US number one skating star this season, even if Michelle competes and Sarah consistently land two 3-3s.

this new team is a perfect match! :)

[AxelAnnie22]

Originally posted by jpeach
Good for her! She needs that extra bit of discipline. And, with new training conditions, perhaps she'll have a larger training rink, thus improving her overall ice coverage. That has been one of the rare criticisms I've read about Sasha. Why does everyone think TT helps her students become disciplined. Hasn't Yags had a problem with doing complete run throughs-----and let's not talk about his first COI tour!

I am not sure Sasha needs discipline. But perhaps what y'all mean is something different than I would mean. Sasha appears to be quite disciplined. I think it is the headstrong part, together with a lack of experience that needs attention. IMHO she needs to learn to skate smart which includes planning what to skate, and skating what you plan.

Mr. Nicks said early on that he and Sasha would discuss what she was to do, and then she went out on the ice and did exactly what she wanted! She is blessed and cursed with the enormous amount of talent she has. She can do so much, and has so many options available to her. Now, she just needs focus. I think TT will be great for that!

[Mayra]

Gotta love the LA Times headline. :twisted: ;)

Cohen Set to Drop Longtime Coach

I feel for Mr. Nicks. :( Its probably the best career move for Sasha and in the end that is all that really counts, regardless of how long you've been with a coach or how close you are.

At least Mr. Nicks, no matter what Sasha accomplishes in her career, will have the satisfaction of knowing he more than laid the groundwork for it.

[Gingi]

NM

[J.J.C.]

I see a HUGE difference between Kwan an Cohen:

If a coach is not successful though you are one of the most talented kids around you'd be a fool not to fire him. Cohen was capable of winning a medal in SLC - she failed. She could have won a medal at Worlds and failed. I am not speaking of gold though it was possible. She actually didn't win one single medal at the most important international competitions last season! She is 17 years old and she doesn't want to wait any longer.

If a coach is so successful that you win 4 world titles and you dump him shortly before the olympic season starts and before you can hire a new one it is not rational at all. It is not evil but I miss a good reason. Something that explains her decision. And till I haven't heard one good explanation Michelle's decision looks only weird to me.

Am I the only one with this opinion?

[duane]

i'm conflicted. i mean, i love sasha, and think she would do fine with either coach. however, i agree with the concern that sasha may not receive tarasova's complete attention, with her having so many "star" pupils.

i also dont necessarily agree that tarasova produces champions. many of her students already had longtime coaches, who had brought out all the good things in their skating. then, right before the skaters are at their ultimate peak, they switch to tarasova, become champions, and tarasova gets all the credit!

i see a similar situation here. IMO, john nicks seemed to have been doing all the right things. since returing from injury, sasha's career skyrocketed. her already mature artistry improved, she was becoming more consistent, and she seemed to be one of those skaters who could perform under tremendous pressure. it seemed obvious that things would only get better.

now, she has switched coaches. if sasha does becomes the 2003 World champion, tarasova--not nicks--will receive all the praise, and be credited with "producing another champion".

[J.J.C.]

Originally posted by duane
i also dont necessarily agree that tarasova produces champions. many of her students already had longtime coaches, who had brought out all the good things in their skating. then, right before the skaters are at their ultimate peak, they switch to tarasova, become champions, and tarasova gets all the credit!

tarasova--not nicks--will receive all the praise, and be credited with "producing another champion".

You portrayed it very well, Duane. But that's why she is called a finishing coach. She gives the skaters the last 5% they need to become number one. 95% are the work of the fomer coaches, but with 95% you can only place among the top six. The lacking 5% make them the champs - and separate them from the rest. ;)

[AxelAnnie22]

Originally posted by J.J.C.
I see a HUGE difference between Kwan an Cohen:


If a coach is so successful that you win 4 world titles and you dump him shortly before the olympic season starts and before you can hire a new one it is not rational at all. It is not evil but I miss a good reason. Something that explains her decision. And till I haven't heard one good explanation Michelle's decision looks only weird to me.

Am I the only one with this opinion?

Nope, you are not the only one. Sign me up to share your well articulated opinion. I actually hadn't considered the fact that perhaps coaching had something to do with Sasha's lack of medals. I just was always so excited that she had come as far as she had........hadn't stopped to think that she just might have gone further.

[Spider68]

I have such mixed feelings, but ultimately, it's not about loyalty, but what the skater thinks he/she needs. If, in the next few years, Sasha wins the gold at World and the Olympics, everyone will say it was the right decision and Tarasova is a genius. If, on the other hand, she has a few stumbles ala Kwan, the naysayers will be tsking and saying "told you so! She should have stayed with Mr. Nicks."

Since we skate at Aliso, we'll miss Sasha and we feel badly for Mr. Nicks. However, the best to her. On a personal note: Sasha's statement on her web site about the training conditions and availability of ice was a bit skewed - a session of private ice was set aside for her at a fairly prime time, and I'm sure that due to her reputation, the rink owners would have been more than willing to a lot more. As it was, when the Olympics and Worlds were coming, several sessions of private ice were allocated to her training.

By the way, is there any truth to another rumor that Kwan is considering going to Tarasova, too?

[allegria]

Originally posted by AxelAnnie22
Mr. Nicks did a wonderful job with her. What happened to loyalty?

What good is loyalty if your skating has stagnated or you're just not motivated by your coach anymore?

I like this quote from Tarasova on Sasha's website:During competitions Tarasova said she doesn’t look at the faces of her skaters, only their feet.

That's definitely what Sasha needs, IMO.

[Show 42]

I think too much thought goes into why a skater leaves, fires, dismisses, whatever, a given coach. It happens all the time in sports, and certainly not just in figure skating. It is quite possible that Sasha needed a fresh outlook to her skating. She is not a beginner here, has all the tricks and jumps, and is looking perhaps for a more meaningful motivation......by the way, it is tiring having Michelle's coaching situation drug into every thread pertaining to coaches. She fired her coach, people......get over it and move on!

[duane]

Originally posted by Show 42
I think too much thought goes into why a skater leaves, fires, dismisses, whatever, a given coach. It happens all the time in sports, and certainly not just in figure skating

perhaps, but in other sports, firing of a coach usually occurs when an athlete or team is on the downslope. what makes this firing surprising--and why people are giving it a lot of thought--is that sasha is on the upslope. and hey, this is an excellent preseason topic to discuss! :)

.......by the way, it is tiring having Michelle's coaching situation drug into every thread pertaining to coaches. She fired her coach, people......get over it and move on!

well, when two of the top American female skaters fire their longtime coaches, one has to expect comparisons to be made.

[Show 42]

Hi duane.......I don't have a problem with Sasha's coaching situation discussed, it is newsworthy and an interesting situation. It just seems that whenever the opportunity arises, Michelle is brought into the mix and not always for "fair-minded" comparisons.......

As with Michelle's situation, we don't know for sure why Sasha decided to change coaches at this point in her career......we all hope it will be for the best.....so let the "speculation" begin........;)

[pilgrimsoul]

This new alliance will certainly make the season interesting! I'm no expert, but personally, I think this is a very exciting growth opportunity for Sasha. It's none of my business, but I'm just dying to hear Adrian's take on this development. I trust his judgment on this better than anyone, because he's probably the best informed Sasha fan out there! Hmmm...Connectict isn't too far from New Jersey. It would be so cool to witness some practice sessions! ;)

[Yazmeen]

Changing a coach or going without a coach is a personal decision. I for one prefer to leave it to the skater as to why or why NOT they make those decisions. I am a skater--I know why I love my coach. I also understand why other skaters in my club prefer to be trained by other coaches. I understand why some skaters whom I know switch coaches. I might consider some of the decisions good, some not so good. It all comes down to the skater's choice, and my opinions, while possibly valid, are not meaningful to their choices, as my opinions don't really affect how the skater skates!!!

While we can all feel bad for the coaches "left behind" and second guess all we want, it is ultimately up to the skater involved as to why he/she made that decision. I think Michelle has worn the "Scarlet C" (for coach) long enough from all the "experts" who think she made the wrong decision to fire Frank. I believe Sasha has done what is best for her and I hope skating fans will consider that when weighing in their opinions, expert or not.

Frankly, folks, the more I skate, the less I feel I am qualifed to weigh in on decisions like these. Being a fellow skater or a fan does NOT make one particularly enlightened on other skater's choices.

[Dragonlady]

Kurt Browning changed coaches after winning Worlds and it was a good move on his part.

I disagree that John Nicks was doing right by Sasha. I think that his training practices were the cause of Sasha and Naomi's injuries and I thought his insistence that he act as their coach, agent, manager and PR man was both a conflict of interest and ill-advised. He should have insisted on a real choreographer for Sasha and not let her do her own programs.

I am thrilled to see Sasha moving to Tarasova where I think she'll have a much better chance to fulfill her potential. Nick's has never produced a World Champion singles skater and I believe Sasha's lack of consistency can be traced to her insecure landing edges. I have every confidence that under Tarasova, Sasha's will improve her edges and with it, her consistency (see Ilia Kulik for prior example of a skater with similar problems).

I can't wait for the Sarah/Sasha showdown at Skate Canada.

[danibellerika]

Now that it's confirmed, I'm more excited about it than anything. Nicks has done his job well and I hope he feels accomplished with what he's done with her so far. If Sasha felt like this was the best thing for her, then i wish her the best of luck and will be rooting for her next season without a doubt(still would be if she stayed w/Nicks). GOOO SASHA!!!

[J.J.C.]

Originally posted by Show 42
It just seems that whenever the opportunity arises, Michelle is brought into the mix and not always for "fair-minded" comparisons.......


I wonder whom you mean with starting not "fair-minded" comparisons. If it's me you should explain your accusation, cause I consider myself as fair-minded and I don't know where your reply is going.

[loveskating]

Disagree that Tarasova would receive all the praise...everyone knows the skater's list of coaches at least of the elite variety. Kudriatsev is given credit by Kulik for his jumps, for instance. It all depends on the graciousness of the skater and/or whether the change was from conflict or simply moving on.

Speculations are inevitable, but there is nothing factual to indicate that on Sasha's part this is anything but moving on.

P.S. Don't think Sasha's problem on jumps is serious, she is very consistent now on her 3 jumps (especially when you consider how many medals have been given for skates with falls and other serious mistakes) but its not because of "insecurity" on the landing edge...she tends to overrotate her jumps, IMHO, and then is out of the circle at landing, and has to drag her pick to balance. She is not a conservative skater.

[Show 42]

Hi J.C.C. I had to scroll back through this thread to see what your concerns were about my comment about being "fair-minded". I was not singling out any one poster, but just made a general comment about Michelle's coaching situation that has caused speculation since last October. My remarks were in no way directed at you. Your post was, in fact, diplomatically and politely put.

[purplecat]

Today's L.A. Times mentioned that the big factor in her decision was ice time...it said that at Aliso anyone could skate while she was on the ice, so I guess she wanted some private ice time.

At any rate, I wish Sasha the best of luck and think this is a good move!

[J.J.C.]

I still don't know what you are complaining about in your first two posts. If nothing happened in this thread why moan and surpress discussions? I thought this is a discussion board and about sharing opinions. I am sick of people who jump in ONLY for the purpose to shout: get over it, we heard it all, unfair posters are coming blahblah

J.J.C.

[IgglesII]

Originally posted by purplecat
Today's L.A. Times mentioned that the big factor in her decision was ice time...it said that at Aliso anyone could skate while she was on the ice, so I guess she wanted some private ice time.

At any rate, I wish Sasha the best of luck and think this is a good move!

If she wants private ice time, my, did she go to the right place. There had been speculation earlier that Tarasova was going to move her clan to Danbury, Simsbury, or possibly back to Cromwell where they had been for a while three years ago.

People in CT are telling me they're staying in Newington. To which I say --> 8O

Newington has been in financial dire straits since the day they opened the building. Getting private ice time in a building that no one uses for figure skating or hockey shouldn't be a problem at all...until they finally go under, lock the door, and the coach is forced to go elsewhere.

[adrianchew]

Originally posted by J.J.C.

I still don't know what you are complaining about in your first two posts. If nothing happened in this thread why moan and surpress discussions? I thought this is a discussion board and about sharing opinions. I am sick of people who jump in ONLY for the purpose to shout: get over it, we heard it all, unfair posters are coming blahblah

J.J.C.

As far as I read - an opinion was being expressed. Not everyone has to have similar opinions to yours, that's all part of an intelligent discussion. But I have to remind everyone that jumping on someone because you don't like their opinion is not welcome here, which is what I'm reading this particular post to be. So please stop it. If you feel someone was out of line, you can always report them to the moderators and someone will look into it.

As for the subject of this topic - its about Cohen's coaching change, not Michelle's, and given each situation is unique, it might not always be best to make direct comparisons. So let's get back to the topic (Cohen's coaching change), and stick with that please. Thanks.

~adrianchew~

[bunghodog]

hopepfull she will improve on her consistancy with a new coach, i hope so, maybe with a new coach she will have a chance to win.

[duane]

i was just wondering something...now that sasha has switched coaches, what do you all think will come of the quad? under tarasova, do you think sasha will be more or less likely to attempt the quad in the upcoming seasons, or will the quad attempt be completely abandoned, with more concentration on the 3lutz/3toe?

[Dustin]

Sasha said in a few articles that she will be attempting the quad next season, most likely anyway. I think Tarasova could help her with it, I remember seeing a fluff piece a year or so ago with her helping Yagudin on quads, so why not Sasha? ;)

[Jenny]

TT will impose discipline - if she thinks quad practice is taking away from other elements, then she'll put a stop to it I'm sure.

Jenny

[Scott]

This is a good move for her. She will be on the ice with top notch skaers and it won't be be nearly as crowded. The area is much smaller than in LA and the atmosphere is entirely different. Plus there will be a huge amount of community support. This is particularly true if she happens to land up in Simsbury. The towns people up there revere the place!

[Kylenn Imri]

I don't think Sasha necessarily 'dumped' Mr. Nicks. Wasn't he quoted somewhere as saying that he *wants* his students to progress to a level where they don't need him anymore? Perhaps, upon recognizing that Sasha can't learn much more from him, *he* set up or at least encouraged Sasha to work with with Tarasova.

Also, at 72 he may be preparing to retire and the timing just happened to be perfect to send Sasha to a 'finishing coach'.