Mao Asada article

[Kylen15]

Someone save me from all the Asada hype. Yeah, she's good, and yeah, I like her skating, but the age limit exists for a reason, and frankly, the Japanese women need to slow down and teach their skaters artistry.

http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/news?slug=ap-sportsshowcase&prov=ap&type=lgns

[tdnuva]

Someone save me from all the Asada hype. Yeah, she's good, and yeah, I like her skating, but the age limit exists for a reason, and frankly, the Japanese women need to slow down and teach their skaters artistry.

http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/news?slug=ap-sportsshowcase&prov=ap&type=lgns
About the age limit - the problem is there are different age limits for different international senior events, so it looks indeed a bit arbitrary. But I can live with that.

About artistry. I think the word is overused and wrongly used very often. So I'd rather talk about interpretation. And I would say that the Japanese women in general (including e.g. Suguri, Asada, Arakawa) are not bad in that department. I would say they interprete their music usually at least as well as certain other top level skaters like Slutskaia or Kwan or Cohen. Of course this is a subjective topic but you make it sound as if they skate as robots which they clearly don't.

[Kylen15]

I didn't mean to make them sound like robots. What I'm trying to say is the following:

Athletes need to have time to maturity in their expression and choreography. Mao is a wonderful skater with great speed and flow, but it's clear she still skates like a junior. And yet, because she has all her triples, has all these combination jumps after the halfway point and because she can do a triple axel, the Japanese government is going "wah, why can't she compete?"

What I'm saying is that Japan needs to slow down and let their athletes mature and develop. Look at Tara Lipinski, and all of her injury issues after Nagano. The age limit exists for a reason, and rather than expose a skater to the senior environment when they can't go to the big competitions, why not let them train and mature?

Also, when I made my comment about Japanese women, I was referring to letting Asada, Yoshie Onda and Yukari Nakano improve their skating skills, not just their jumping. I don't like jumping beans, and I never have.

The sport is about more than just landing triple axels.

[Schmeck]

I don't see any hype in this article, it just states the facts. There are pros and cons about the age limit, that's for sure, and there needs to be a standard set for all events, at least all international ones.

There's a nice comment in there from Nicks!

[Kylen15]

Print media is making a huge deal out of the fact that Asada is too young to qualify. The fact that this was front-page news on Yahoo - which is how I found the article - certainly confirms that.

The comments from the Japanese prime minister also lead me to use the word "HYPE."

I like Asada, I really do. I feel like I really have to defend myself there. But there's this big issue being made out of the age difference, when in fact I'm sure she and her coaches and the Japanese federation were FULLY aware of the fact that she would not be competing when she went senior this year.

[John King]

To protest the age restriction,I think her fans should gather outside the ISU headquarters,and sing "Mao-Mao-Mao-Mao/Mao-Mao-Mao-Mao/Mao-Mao-Mao-Mao-Mao-Mao-Mao-Mao..." :)

[Tapper]

What I'm saying is that Japan needs to slow down and let their athletes mature and develop. Look at Tara Lipinski, and all of her injury issues after Nagano. The age limit exists for a reason, and rather than expose a skater to the senior environment when they can't go to the big competitions, why not let them train and mature?


I totally accept the issue about injury caused by doing the jumps too early, but I don't believe that is the real reason behind the rule of not letting the girls skate in the Olympics and Senior Worlds until they reach a certain age. If that were the case then Mao would not be doing triple axles in the Grand Prix. It seems rather ironic that there is all of this hubbub about protecting the young skaters from injury while at the same time the coaches are training them to do triple axles and quads before they turn 16. It seems to me that doing a triple axle at the Olympics or at Senior Worlds isn't going to do more damage then doing a triple axle at Junior Worlds or Junior Olympics... Is it?

I wonder if the truth lies a little more in what Carol Heiss Jenkins is saying about how the body changes at age 16/17 and that makes it more difficult to do the triple jumps... in other words, the youthful female skater has the advantage over the more mature skater when it comes to knocking off 3/3s and 3 axles, and quads ... which I think is perhaps the real reason why they have the age limits. If they were dead serious about preventing injuries they wouldn't be teaching the kids to do the triple axles and 3/3 combos. Right? I understand that it's impossible to do a triple axle if you never practice doing one... so when does one start? Only after they turn 16? When they are 12?

Having said all of that... I must add that I really love watching Mao skate. I love her freshness, and the ease with which she takes flight. I find the term "juniorish" pejorative, and so I wouldn't choose to use it to describe her skating. I simply think she is young... hasn't yet developed the edge that comes with maturity (though I see glimmers!), but I find that engaging in her, and though she looks young, I think she has a more mature line than Tara Lapinski did when she won the OGM.

Personally, I'm fine with Mao not going to the Olympics this year... especially relieved that Mao is fine with it. She will certainly give me reason for watching the 2010 Olympics, and every world competition in between! I guess we'll see then if with more "maturity" she can still knock off those 3 axles the way she does now.

[elanboy]

It seems rather ironic that there is all of this hubbub about protecting the young skaters from injury while at the same time the coaches are training them to do triple axles and quads before they turn 16. It seems to me that doing a triple axle at the Olympics or at Senior Worlds isn't going to do more damage then doing a triple axle at Junior Worlds or Junior Olympics... Is it?

I wonder if the truth lies a little more in what Carol Heiss Jenkins is saying about how the body changes at age 16/17 and that makes it more difficult to do the triple jumps... in other words, the youthful female skater has the advantage over the more mature skater when it comes to knocking off 3/3s and 3 axles, and quads ... which I think is perhaps the real reason why they have the age limits. If they were dead serious about preventing injuries they wouldn't be teaching the kids to do the triple axles and 3/3 combos. Right? I understand that it's impossible to do a triple axle if you never practice doing one... so when does one start? Only after they turn 16? When they are 12?


Well said...I couldn't agree more...Asada should be at the Olympics IMO. Whoever wins the gold this year should have an asterisk beside her win without Asada there. To miss the Olympics due to injury or political boycotting is one thing, but to be denied the opportunity when you are clearly ready is another thing. Don't get me wrong, which ever one of the ladies wins the gold this year, will have deserved it, having skated the best at the event, but we'll always wonder if Asada could have won had she been given the chance. Aren't the Olympics supposed to be about the best qualified athletes competing against each other? Despite her age, Asada is clearly one of the best, at least in this current season. To say that she is young and will have her chance next time is way too simple and presumptuous...who knows what will happen in another 4 years time. She will indeed have growth spurts and experience body changes in this time and may never be able to skate as she does now...One need only remember Naomi Nari-Nam as an example...when she first burst onto the scene, i think around the same time as Sasha Cohen, she was amazing, but she's one that certainly hasn't been able to skate to the level she did when she was younger. The article also mentions similar problems faced by Miki Ando. Part of what makes the Olympics so special, is because it takes place only once every 4 years, and thus often it is the goal of many athletes to compete and win at this event. Only select few are able to claim Olympic champion glory due to the shorter window of opportunity. I guess luck and timing has every much to do with competing and winning at the Olympics as does skill and ability. Unfortunately for Asada, luck is not on her side this year...too bad, i say!

[elanboy]

To protest the age restriction,I think her fans should gather outside the ISU headquarters,and sing "Mao-Mao-Mao-Mao/Mao-Mao-Mao-Mao/Mao-Mao-Mao-Mao-Mao-Mao-Mao-Mao..." :)

While your intent is no doubt to be funny and not meant to be dispectful, as evidenced by the :), it does border on racist and may be offensive to Asian people...one wonders why you'd even post something so silly... :??

[crayonskater]

I think the idea for some kind of rule makes sense, just for the health of the athletes and for the artistic integrity of the support; while it's correct to say that modern coaching starts the build toward triples very young, it seems that it would be worse with a lower age limit. There's also emotional health to consider; a thirteen-year-old might be damaged by all the media scrutiny. (That's the biggest difference between Worlds and the Olympics, at least in the U.S.). Also, long-term interest for the sport; we're not going to televise eight year olds to find the next Olympic champion, and longevity (i.e., making it to two Olympics) helps fuel public interest in the sport.

Plus, given that a clean routine with lots of jumps is a lot harder to beat under CoP, we'd lose a lot of interpretation.

Asada at least will be past her growth spurt at the next Olympics, so with any luck she'll have had time to readjust. And maybe you've watched different coverage than I, but I thought the Japanese federation was very polite in exploring their options for sending Asada to the Olympics, and not at all pushy.

[elanboy]

How would that be racist? Maybe I didn't get what the joke was (can't say I found it funny because I didn't get it.).

Ignorance is indeed bliss...it was clear the poster was making fun of Asada's name, because of it's supposed similiarity in sound to a "caterwauling" cat...


That aside, I don't feel that there is any need for an asterisk to the Olympic winner. For Mao to win would be bad judging, she doesn't have the depth outside of jumping to merit being a champion.

Just curious, how did you feel about Tara Lipinski's skating and win over Michelle Kwan at the '98 Olympics?

[Clarice]

[QUOTE=elanboy]Ignorance is indeed bliss...it was clear the poster was making fun of Asada's name, because of it's supposed similiarity in sound to a "caterwauling" cat...

I'm pretty sure the poster was "quoting" a television commercial for a brand of cat food called Miaow Mix. In it, a cat sings a jingle with the words "miaow, miaow, miaow, miaow... etc." The tag line is "cats ask for it by name". It's a pretty irritating commercial when you hear it enough times, but I guess a good one, since not only do I know what it's advertising, but I can sing the jingle. No clue what the poster's point was, though. :)

[Schmeck]

I phrased it in my head as the na-na-na-na song (hey, hey, hey goodbye) and didn't see any meow in it at all. Don't know what the OP planned, but I didn't see any racism in it.

Will Asada be eligible for Worlds this year? Wonder who will go?

[sk8er1964]

I phrased it in my head as the na-na-na-na song (hey, hey, hey goodbye) and didn't see any meow in it at all. Don't know what the OP planned, but I didn't see any racism in it.

Funny, I heard in my head an old song, oh heck, their lead singer was Bowser - anyway he had that deep bass voice and sung those words over and over kind of like an accompanyment. A cat was the furthest thing from my mind, until it was mentioned elanboy.

I didn't see any racism in it. (Are we getting a little too PC?)

Oh, as for the topic, I think Mao has the talent to be one of the great ones, because you can see the artistry just asking to grow with her. All depends on the body, though, and how it can handle those big jumps and aging.

[Tapper]

Will Asada be eligible for Worlds this year? Wonder who will go?

I thought I read in that article that she would not be eligible for Worlds this year.

[dbny]

Ignorance is indeed bliss...it was clear the poster was making fun of Asada's name, because of it's supposed similiarity in sound to a "caterwauling" cat...

Has no one hear ever heard of Mao Tse Tung, leader of the Chinese Red Army who beat Chiang Kai Shek? That is only one Mao that comes to my mind. Rather an illustrius allusion, IMO.

[yogurtslinger]

Haven't read all the posts yet :oops: ... but I just want to say:

Age is not necessarily going to bring with it, maturity or artistry. And artistry does not necessarily mature and ripen with age.

Case in point: Oksana Baiul.

She was at her peak at a very young age- capturing World and Olympic gold medals back to back.

Which is not to say she didn't mature as an artist in the years post Olympic Gold. Of course she did, in her choice of music, and in her choice of choreography.

But the underlying musical sensibility was always there. When she was 15 and doing Swan Lake she had that effortless dance quality, and when she was 18 and doing Arabian she still had that natural dance quality.

If these age limits had been in place back then, what would have happened to our World and Olympic Champion Ms. Oksana Baiul ?

[Schmeck]

Maybe she wouldn't have turned into a party-hearty has-been by the age of 20? She's a poster child for too much success, too early!

[loveskating]

Has no one hear ever heard of Mao Tse Tung, leader of the Chinese Red Army who beat Chiang Kai Shek? That is only one Mao that comes to my mind. Rather an illustrius allusion, IMO.

At NHK Terry Gannon said Mao Asada's nick name should be "The Chairman", LOL! An obvious reference to Chairman Mao Tsetung. I think he meant it respectfully.

I think Mao is just wonderful, and I cannot wait to see her develop. She is amazing, has the effect of someone like Sasha -- really special.

[crayonskater]

I know he meant it respectfully, but given the history between China and Japan, it's a bit weird to give the title of Chinese dictator to a Japanese figure skater as an honorific. (Illustrious illusion if you ignore the violence, the purges, the human rights abuses.)

Like giving a Polish skater the title 'Führer' or something. I imagine she has another nickname in Japan.

[Tapper]

If these age limits had been in place back then, what would have happened to our World and Olympic Champion Ms. Oksana Baiul ?

I think that she would have developed into the brilliant skater and artist she was capable of becoming... something she ultimately failed to do. Personally, I think that the judges did her a disservice by awarding her the gold for what I thought was an undisciplined and sloppy performance, despite all of her grace and charm.

I would have loved to have seen her compete with Kwan and Lapinski.

[Isk8NYC]

Sonja Henie was also held back by age limits, back in the day...
I guess the concept is to prevent kids from injuring themselves racing to develop in time for the earliest competitions. I think that the artistic side comes with maturity and experience. Isn't there a shortage of Japanese olympic spots, or is that just for the Men? If it also applies to the women, this helps give older skaters one last chance.

For the record, I got the "Meow Mix" commercial reference. Was John King's post title added later, after the racism accusation? :??

I will also admit that while the "Mao" name is in common, there is no comparison between Mao Tse Tung and Mao Asada. I think Asada could have taken him in the short program, and her artistry is far better than his. Peggy Fleming would have HATED his costumes! LOL! :lol:

For those who know, what does "Mao" mean in Chinese and Japanese?

[Sweet16*skater]

okay...so...this is all just IMO so take it or leave it...right...since each athlete peeks at different times, who says that in four years she won't have lost all her jumps...it's happened many time when skaters grow and change...also she won at the GPF so that does prove that she has what it takes to do something at the olympics, why are we taking that way from her just because she is younger than the average athlete? on the other hand i do agree with the age limits not because it prevents injuries in young athletes...i think that's a great excuse but totally irrelevant...