Silver MIF - Tim's test details

[TimDavidSkate]

:halo: As soon as I woke up 6:30 this morning I grunted the fact that I had to test. I have not skated at all consistently all week. The most I practiced was only two times, Tuesday and Sunday.

My boyfriend constantly to wipe off the sour puss off my face and tell me to stop whining and groaning.

I went for my warmup and immediately I noticed that the temperature at the rink was extra cold and the ice was a bit hard for me to get a good grip.

Anyways here are the damn elements and the comments: :evil:

Eight Step Mohawk Sequence - I was too fast the whole entire time, I almost ran into the wall twice.
Judge 1 - 2.7, very good
Judge 2 - 2.6, pulse not equal with each stroke
Judge 3 - 2.7, sequence wild


Forward and Backward Cross Strokes - This I felt secure, especially the forwards, but the backwards, I was having trouble leaning on my back edges.
Judge 1 - 2.6, Nice flow on forwards, very slow on backwards
Judge 2 - 2.7, steps ok, edges ok
Judge 3 - 2.7, end of sequence double footed

F*ck*ng 3-turns in the Field - I always hated this move, especially the back insides, Im always afraid that I will swipe and fall on my head.
FO - BI & FI - BO
Judge 1 - 2.6 & 2.6, LBI weak turning, RBI too soon, LBO wobbles
Judge 2 - 2.7 & 2.6, BK turn very early, flow and edges ok, areas not consistent, in shape, some body glotches out of BK turns
Judge 3 - 2.7 & 2.5. turns a bit slow, wiggles on edges, lack of control of edge before and after turns

Forward Right and Left Foot Spirals - This move I know I did not have to warmup, I just built up speed and stretched out. I was hopping that I would gain back the points that I missed.
Judge 1 - 2.8, very nice extensions
Judge 2 - 2.9, very nice position and balance
Judge 3 - 2.8, good extension and form

Forward and Backward Power Pulls - I have worked hard with my ice dance coach in the past with these moves. I was reluctant to start working on them, so she had to do plan B. First she placed one guard over my Left Skate and made me skate around the rink forwards and backwards for 5 minutes. Then she switched the guard to my Right Skate. That made me learn to deal with them. Thank God I did not fall on them ever.
Judge 1 - 2.7, no comment :?:
Judge 2 - 2.7 Forward & Backward OK
Judge 3 - 2.7, Good

Final marks
Judge 1 - 16.0
Judge 2 - 16.1
Judge 3 - 16.2

:frus: :frus: :frus:

I will try to test with SCNY right on January 17, I know it will be a tough panel, but I am now determined to pass it!!! Damn it!!! :halo:

[NoVa Sk8r]

A judge failed you by 0.1?! :roll:
That is evil!

[luna_skater]

A judge failed you by 0.1?! :roll:
That is evil!

I'm not familiar with the marking system (all my tests were E, G, S, or NI); what do you need to pass?

[Thin-Ice]

16.2 total is needed to pass. Judge #2 should have asked to have you reskate one of the elements you were down by 0.1 (2.6) ... in order to give you the benefit of the doubt that this test was not of passing quality. Judge #1 thought the test was not passing quality (they're supposed to "invite you to retry" by a minimum of 0.2) and Judge #3 said the test did pass.... even if it was by the bare minimum. So that leaves Judge #2... is this a new judge?

And how do you already know who the test panel will be on 1/17 when you retry?

[FrankR]

A judge failed you by 0.1?! :roll:
That is evil!

That IS evil! 8O

In the judges' manual on the USFS website I think it actually explicitly states that judges should not fail an entire test by just 0.1 under the passing mark. They are asked to evaluate the test as a whole and determine whether they feel the test passes or should be retried and adjust the marks accordingly to reflect that.

http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/00S-PSchool%20Manual2-02.pdf

I think it's page nine that states:

"Judges must be aware of the numbers and use them well. Do not let the numbers defeat your intentions. Add your
scores, and if the numbers do not bear out your intentions, change the numbers where possible to make them support
your intentions. If you feel that the overall test has met the requirements and is passing, do not let the fact that you have
given one mark a bit too low to cause you to mark the test “retry”. You can either alter the low mark or add 0.1 to another
mark. Always ask yourself at the end of the test: Is this a passing test?” If the answer is “yes” then pass it. If the answer
is “no” then ask that it be retried. When you are in doubt, always give the benefit of the doubt to the skater.
Do not mark tests “retry” by only a tenth of a point. If you are confident that the test is not passing, change your marks as
indicated above."

In any case, sorry to hear about the retry, Tim. Best of luck in finding a session and passing your tests next month.

Frank

[phoenix]

That's interesting--I didn't know about that marking system thing. I've failed MANY dances by .1! I always looked at it that it was very close & therefore a valid attempt. And that it wouldn't take much more to get it up to passing level.

I once got a .4 below passing from a judge & that crushed me!

[Mel On Ice]

everyone is correct - you should not have failed a test by .1 of a point. But it does look like #2 tried to pass you with a 2.9 on the spirals. By the marks, I'd say your 3 turns in the field did you in.

[jenlyon60]

You (or coach if with you) probably should have questioned the 0.1 under retry mark at the time you received the results, as it's a little late now.

Sometimes mistakes also happen and the judge got to the end of the test and didn't check math to realize it was .1 under before the test paper was collected to give to you. And once the paper has been collected and delivered, ....

When I used to monitor test sessions, I used to double-check the math just to make sure that there were no errors, as it's easy to make mistakes or circle the wrong mark, or any of a number of things, especially when one is having to immediately start judging another test and trying to finish marks/comments from previous test.

I know I've had a couple of times where it's gotten to the end of a test and the marks add up to .1 under and I've had to quickly mentally debate "based on what I've just seen, how hard is it going to be for this skater to achieve the next test" and then adjust marks accordingly.

But certainly the 3's in the Field (primarily) and a bit of a rough start on the 8-step appear to have done you in. And with both Forward Double 3's and Backwards Double 3's on the Gold MIF test....

[doubletoe]

I'm so sorry to hear about your frustrating and disappointing test experience.
I found the back inside 3's to be the toughest thing on both my Silver MIF and Gold MIF, too.

What finally helped me gain control over my right back inside 3's (the ones where you have to turn CW) was figuring out the timing on passing my arms and turning my head. As I push onto the RBI edge at 12:00, I look into the circle with my left arm back and right arm forward. When I reached 2:00, I start to gently pass my arms, brushing my hips with them as I pass them, then I gently turn my head to face outside the circle (the head follows slightly after the arms). Then I bend the knee, then execute the turn.

On power pulls, this may sound kind of silly, but I have found that it actually helps me a lot to say to myself, "Inside. Outside. Inside. Outside" as I do them. I don't know why, but it works, LOL!

Don't give up on passing the test in time for Nationals. You can do it! :D

[stardust skies]

16.2 total is needed to pass. Judge #2 should have asked to have you reskate one of the elements you were down by 0.1 (2.6) ... in order to give you the benefit of the doubt that this test was not of passing quality. Judge #1 thought the test was not passing quality (they're supposed to "invite you to retry" by a minimum of 0.2) and Judge #3 said the test did pass.... even if it was by the bare minimum. So that leaves Judge #2... is this a new judge?

And how do you already know who the test panel will be on 1/17 when you retry?

You can retry moves?! I thought you could only reskate elements in the FS? I am very very luck to have had a MITF coach that didn't let me test until I was 10,000% ready but it would have been nice to know that if I had needed a retry, I could've gotten one. So, you can? I was always told you couldn't reskate moves, just FS. Is it different for standard vs adult? If not, my MITF has some explaining to do....even if it's too late now as I'm done with moves, thank God. :twisted:

[phoenix]

You can have 1 reskate on moves, Standard or adult track. I've seen it, but it doesn't seem real common in my area. Even if it's only one element that makes the test fail. Don't know what that's about.... :?:

[LoopLoop]

The judges have the option of requesting a reskate of one element in a MIF test. However, they won't ask for it if they don't think the skater can do the element any better, or if it wouldn't make a difference in the overall result of the test (for example, if all three judges failed the skater on the same move, that would be worth trying a reskate because they all want to see the same thing; but if the three judges all failed different moves, and only one reskate is allowed, there's no point to a reskate).

[TimDavidSkate]

I guess not having a coach really did me in too.

[phoenix]

Never underestimate the power of having a coach talk you down in the middle of a moves test.......

[skatingatty]

Sorry to hear you didn't pass. Good luck next time! I hate MIF's; luckily I took the silver free before they started having adult MIF tests.

[manleywoman]

I guess not having a coach really did me in too.
You mean, with you at the test session, or teaching you the MIF?

[Skate@Delaware]

Tim David:

I hope you have a coach that helps you with your moves stuff! If I didn't get a coach to help me with my moves, I would not have realized all the mistakes I had been making. My group coach just didn't take time to go into all the details necessary for testing. I would be going up to test and would be failing dramatically :cry:

Terese

[TimDavidSkate]

You mean, with you at the test session, or teaching you the MIF?

I felt like hving a coach with me during the test session was not necessary, I already knew what I needed to do. But after this situation, a coach would have been nice to have. She would have gone to the judges and asked for a retry on my behalf :frus:

[TimDavidSkate]

Tim David:

I hope you have a coach that helps you with your moves stuff! If I didn't get a coach to help me with my moves, I would not have realized all the mistakes I had been making. My group coach just didn't take time to go into all the details necessary for testing. I would be going up to test and would be failing dramatically :cry:

Terese


I was trying to save $$$ :cry:

[Debbie S]

You can retry moves?! I thought you could only reskate elements in the FS? I think you may be confusing the terms "retry" and "reskate". A retry means you failed the test and have to take it over again. As far as I know, you can take a test as many times as you need to be able to pass it - although you do have to wait 27 days after the failed test to take test again. A reskate refers to the judges having you reskate an element at the end of your test to give you a chance to do it better and raise your score to passing level - but as LoopLoop said, it depends on whether it would make a difference in your overall result. You can reskate 1 element on a MIF test and 2 elements on a FS test, if there is a possibility that it will change your overall result from a retry to a pass.

When I tested Pre-Bronze MIF, one judge failed me and did not even give me the chance to reskate a move. But the other 2 judges passed me, and there was a bit of a conference between all 3 of them while I waited at the ice entrance after the test, and then they thanked me and waved me off. I assume the "retry" judge found out I was going to pass anyway, so any reskate wouldn't have made a difference, so there was no point in taking up everyone's time.

She would have gone to the judges and asked for a retry on my behalf Um, I don't think a coach can go up to the judges and lobby them to change their minds - especially since the chance for a reskate ends when you step off the ice. She (and you) can certainly talk to the judges afterward and ask them for more detailed feedback on how you can improve, if their comments were unclear.

How did you manage to get so close to the wall on the 8-step? Weren't you using the center hockey circle? Or did they double up the skaters on the ice and make you do it at one of the ends?

[TimDavidSkate]

How did you manage to get so close to the wall on the 8-step? Weren't you using the center hockey circle? Or did they double up the skaters on the ice and make you do it at one of the ends?

Nahs, I just skate extremely fast. I was the only one on the ice testing.
I did start out in the middle of the hocke circle, but I eventually keep running out of room to do the third pattern of the mohawk, so I have to spread it to the edge of the rink :giveup:

On the Prelim test, the 8 pattern I had to do for crossovers, I requested the judge if I can do them in the middle of the rink.

[e-skater]

When I tested Pre-Bronze MIF, one judge failed me and did not even give me the chance to reskate a move. I assume the "retry" judge found out I was going to pass anyway, so any reskate wouldn't have made a difference, so there was no point in taking up everyone's time.

Um, I don't think a coach can go up to the judges and lobby them to change their minds - especially since the chance for a reskate ends when you step off the ice.


Re the retry judge....I had a similar experience with AB MIF. Though I didn't see a conference per se, they did glance at one another. The other two judges had given me "overs" on some things, too, so guess it was moot.

As to lobbying the judges. I think you're right here. In terms of pointing out a rule to them, maybe .......though I have seen many a test, especially dance tests, failed by .1. Maybe the "can't fail a test by .1" does not apply to dance? Anyway....

[e-skater]

Never underestimate the power of having a coach talk you down in the middle of a moves test.......

Oh, had I only done that during my last MIF test. And, trust me, I will at my next one, if I ever make it to another one that is. :roll:

I think it's really important to have your coach there.......

[e-skater]

Eight Step Mohawk Sequence[/B] - I was too fast the whole entire time, I almost ran into the wall twice.


Is the focus of this move first quickness, then power? Maybe you were really nervous (like I got during my last MIF test 8O ), and it resulted in what I call for me "wild skating" ;) ?

Most people I've seen pass this do not go out to the boards. They maintain an even circle, though well away from the hockey circle line. Also, I've seen people do this move without even doing it on a hockey circle (that won't ever be for me, I think! ;) )

Good luck on your next try. Maybe it would be worth it to spring for having a coach on hand. (?)

[Debbie S]

I did start out in the middle of the hocke circle, but I eventually keep running out of room to do the third pattern of the mohawk, so I have to spread it to the edge of the rink
Uh, aren't you supposed to start at one of the 4 red dots that "ring" the outside of the center circle, and then your pattern circle essentially connects (or close to it) the red dots (outside the circle line)? The pattern is supposed to cover 1 1/2 "circles", so your 3rd sequence essentially retraces your first. :??

[Skate@Delaware]

Okay, I get it. My coach has been "prepping" me for my tests next fall. She said that I am allowed to "consult" with her between each element (for example, between perimeter crossovers and waltz-8's). That way, she can "read the judges" and give advice, calm me down, pep me, etc. I think just knowing that she will be there is extremely calming to me even now!

I'm sorry you didn't pass-but you were extremely close!! And you know what to focus on for the next try! I like to look at these as "auditions" instead of tests because the pressure seems to be different! (maybe it's just me, I'm used to shows!)

[jenlyon60]

The primary focus is quickness, secondary focus "Continuous flow and strength"

The standards are:

Adult:
-- Circular shape should be reasonably maintained throughout
--Diameter of circle should be larger than hockey circle in middle of rink
--Skater should complete more than one revolution of the circle
--Fairly neat placement of footwork
--Open mohawks (not jumped though)
--sequence of steps 6,7,8 must be distinct steps

The pattern should definitely be circular and not too big. If your pattern was clearly oval or egg-shaped, it was incorrectly skated (not in general accordance with pattern in rulebook).

At my club, generally the judges will turn to each other at the end of a test and ask if anyone wants to see an element (or MIF) reskated. Sometimes 2 judges will each want to see different MIFs reskated, and there will be a bit of discussion as to which one to see (since only one MIF can be reskated). Then the skater will be called over, advised as to what to reskate, with a brief explanation of what correction is desired, and offered the opportunity to talk briefly to their coach before reskating the MIF.

[e-skater]

Uh, aren't you supposed to start at one of the 4 red dots that "ring" the outside of the center circle, and then your pattern circle essentially connects (or close to it) the red dots (outside the circle line)? The pattern is supposed to cover 1 1/2 "circles", so your 3rd sequence essentially retraces your first. :??

This is how I understand it, too.......the goal (I can't do this move yet, just learning...) is to keep the circle round, and be out near those red dots.....is that two feet or more? Which reflects power (or continuous strength and flow now I guess....)

[Terri C]

Tim, I read your journal and want to offer some honest, but constructive feedback.
The moves that we all love to hate were put in place of the school figures, that most of our coaches practiced for hours and hours on end.
In those days it was not uncommon for one to have to re-take the same figures test over and over again until it passed.
That being said, there is no way on the planet Earth that one could pass these moves tests without guidance from a coach or with as little as two- three days/ weeks of practice.
For me, every time I think I have the 5 step mohawk or the power threes, or basically any pattern on the Bronze moves test, my coaches always manage to come up with something that is missing.
So, get back to work, buckle down and get the test to where it will pass, with no questions asked.

[coskater64]

RE: What Debbie S said- I agree the 8 step starts on one of the 4 red dots and basically connects those dots. It should be circular not oval, also there should be a distinct march with 8 even steps, nothing wide stepped, nothing skidded or scratchy. Nice even cadence/tempo with good power that gets slightly greater through the course of the move. The CCW and the CW should be done in a similar manner and of similar quality.

[phoenix]

Yup, I was told to keep the 8-step pattern just inside the red dots. If it's ever-widening, then you're not on good, even edges.

[doubletoe]

This is how I understand it, too.......the goal (I can't do this move yet, just learning...) is to keep the circle round, and be out near those red dots.....is that two feet or more? Which reflects power (or continuous strength and flow now I guess....)

On the 8-step mohawk, you want to be in-between the center circle and the lines on either side of the center circle, about 2 feet outside the circle.

[mikawendy]

Okay, I get it. My coach has been "prepping" me for my tests next fall. She said that I am allowed to "consult" with her between each element (for example, between perimeter crossovers and waltz-8's). That way, she can "read the judges" and give advice, calm me down, pep me, etc. I think just knowing that she will be there is extremely calming to me even now!

You and your coach can consult briefly between elements but not between different directions of the same elements. (So not between the forward and backward crossovers on the Pre-Bronze MIF test.) There are more details on this in the rule book, but I haven't assembled mine yet. (It FINALLY came last week, 6 months after I had ordered and paid for it!!!!!!)

[stardust skies]

I think you may be confusing the terms "retry" and "reskate".


Oops..no no, I meant "reskate". I didn't think you could reskate any element in a MITF in the same test, even if it was the difference between fail or pass. That's what my coach said. Probably because he knows what kind of person I am, and that if I didn't think it was do or die the first time, I'd be more likely to screw up. Scheming mastermind, really. :bow:


How did you manage to get so close to the wall on the 8-step? Weren't you using the center hockey circle?

I wondered the same thing.

[stardust skies]

Nahs, I just skate extremely fast. I was the only one on the ice testing.
I did start out in the middle of the hocke circle, but I eventually keep running out of room to do the third pattern of the mohawk, so I have to spread it to the edge of the rink :giveup:

On the Prelim test, the 8 pattern I had to do for crossovers, I requested the judge if I can do them in the middle of the rink.

Well that's two reasons you didn't pass.

1. You have to skate the 8 step pattern with "cadence", I think it even says that in the rulebook. That means 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8...each step at the same speed, and each fairly slow...like a second per step or so. It has to show even-ness and rhythm, it's not about skating fast. Power and fast are not the same thing, even though power does give you speed. But power is speed you can control. Quickness is about agility, the ability to precisely change steps in a fast manner. It doesn't mean skate at a speed that throws you out of the rhythm of the move.

2. You can't gradually make the circle bigger, it has to be the same size throughout. Otherwise it's not a "pattern", it's a bunch of steps you place wherever is convenient. It would really actually have saved $$ to have a coach teach you these things, because failing a test when a simple correction could've made you pass is money wasted. Good luck on your next try!! Please do think about having a coach look at your test before you go back out, it'll make a world of difference.

[vesperholly]

Nahs, I just skate extremely fast. I was the only one on the ice testing.
I did start out in the middle of the hocke circle, but I eventually keep running out of room to do the third pattern of the mohawk, so I have to spread it to the edge of the rink :giveup:
Wow, unless I'm reading it wrong, it sounds like you are doing all 3 patterns on one large circle? That's not how the move is supposed to go. Each sequence of 8 steps (LFO, XO RFO, LFO/mo/RBO, LBI, RBO, XO LBI/mo/RFI - repeat) is supposed to take up approximately 3/4 of a large circle. My coach always pushed me to do the circle at least two feet away from the hockey circle. If you wanted to, you could continue doing this move ad infinitum on a circle in the middle of the rink.

[Skate@Delaware]

You and your coach can consult briefly between elements but not between different directions of the same elements. (So not between the forward and backward crossovers on the Pre-Bronze MIF test.) There are more details on this in the rule book, but I haven't assembled mine yet. (It FINALLY came last week, 6 months after I had ordered and paid for it!!!!!!)
Right. She has explained that part to me. When it gets closer to testing, we will be doing that. What we will do is "practice" testing with a "panel" of judges, probably some of our practiced skaters sitting in the box acting as judges. I will skate the elements, they will judge, etc.

Sounds good on paper 8O

[daisies]

In terms of pointing out a rule to them, maybe .......though I have seen many a test, especially dance tests, failed by .1. Maybe the "can't fail a test by .1" does not apply to dance? Anyway....
FYI, that's not an actual "rule," it's a guideline in the judge's manual. But it's not illegal per the rulebook.

[TimDavidSkate]

Thank you all for your kind advice, I will be having a coach with me during my test session next time. I also have decided since I am short of time to take my test for Silver test, I will be skating in the Bronze Level next year again :cry: But its ok, at least I will be competing at AN

[sexyskates]

Ouch! I thought my silver moves tests were close, but 0.1 off is really frustrating! It seems that most everyone has to do silver moves more than once - one of my friends passed on the 5th try. I myself passed on the third after being close twice. On my first attempt, one judges passed me and the 2nd had me off by 0.4. On the 2nd try, one judges passed me and the next judge had me off my 0.2. On the 3rd, I felt very confident and I was passed by all, and one gave me extra points! Just improve everything and do it again, and I think you'll pass. The judges love a good strong opening 8-step mohawk, so make sure that one is secure. You want them rooting for you right from the beginning.