Hardest skill to master?

[kempy]

I am currently doing a project at University on figure skating. I am looking at the problems in the development of figure skating skills. I was wondering if any of you have any opinions on what basic skills are the hardest to develop when you are just starting out in skating?!?!?

Any comments would be greatly appreciated! :)

[phoenix]

You might get more info if you post this question in the "On Ice" forum as well. That's where most of the participant skaters hang out.

I think the answer can vary widely depending on the individual; but with that caveat, I can give some general answers based on what I've observed. I've been teaching for 7 years, children through adults.

1. for many people it takes a long time to learn to stroke properly, without using toepicks.

2. Mohawks seem difficult for both children & adults, but for different reasons. The children have a hard time grasping the concept & learning how to set the foot down correctly. Adults in general are not as flexible & just physically can't do it right away.

3. Spins take a long time, no matter what the age. They are just very hard.

4. Overall, it takes a very long time & many hours on the ice to look relaxed, make things look graceful and easy and flowing--even simple stroking or very basic footwork. It takes what my first coach called "mileage", meaning simply time spent on the ice. It can't be taught to a large degree & it can't be rushed.

5. Backward one foot glides tend to take a long time for adults; less so for kids.

I don't know how many things you're looking for, so I'll stop there. These are *really* basic things; I assume that's what you meant? Feel free to ask more if I've misunderstood! :D

[loveskating]

I am currently doing a project at University on figure skating. I am looking at the problems in the development of figure skating skills. I was wondering if any of you have any opinions on what basic skills are the hardest to develop when you are just starting out in skating?!?!?

Any comments would be greatly appreciated! :)

There are actually steps of teaching in ISIA and USFSA, and if you went to a local rink, you might get a pro to show you some of the manuals they have as to how to teach skills and how skills build one on the other. My daughter's coach showed some of these to me, as part of convincing me my child was ready to jump (and get expensive Harlicks boots, LOL).

For instance, did you know that in ISIA alpha, or maybe even beta, I can't recall, the child has to spin on two feet to get good marks!!! Its step by step by step and then its all talent and perseverence, they say.

[kempy]

thank you guys for your replies they are really useful. Alongside my observations of skaters it will really help my research. anyone else who wishes to add their comments would be greatly welcomed.

[flippet]

Different people will find different things difficult, depending on their talents. I agree with phoenix on a few, namely 'proper' stroking, with good knee bend, including crossovers, especially back crossovers. I also think spins, even 'basic' ones are difficult at first for most people. Stops can also be tricky, especially T-stops.

Personally, I found back one-foot glides and mohawks pretty simple, but back crossovers took me twice as long as other basic skills to get reasonably 'smooth'. (That's 'beginner' smooth, not 'advanced' smooth, LOL!) Three-turns were somewhere in the middle. (Back inside threes were especially tough!) The one 'required' move that I simply could NOT do is a proper hockey stop. I can do a one-foot hockey stop no problem, but adding that inside foot will pitch me across the ice every time!

[Frumpy]

I think that for MOST skaters, the single axel and then the double axel are the hardest two individual skills to learn.

The single axel is the bridge from single jumps to double jumps. It is definately a "rite-of-passage" to get your single axel, for both the kids and adult skaters.

The double axel is the next HUGE "rite-of-passage" that can be very daunting for a competitive skater because many people are never able to learn it, and CAN mean certian doom to a young skater's competitive career. It is also a bridge to triple jumps.

Anyway, that is my opinion. :halo:

[phoenix]

axel is hardly a "basic skill".

[loveskating]

thank you guys for your replies they are really useful. Alongside my observations of skaters it will really help my research. anyone else who wishes to add their comments would be greatly welcomed.

I agree each skater is different within the general systematic teaching of the ISIA and USFSA professionals. By the way, they have to have credentials to teach.

My daughter had the most incredible edges from the beginning of her skating, and that is what I was told by the pros when she first had group lessons -- she was a natural, just really on her blades and she loved that -- OTOH she could not do a spreadeagle for the life of her, which really upset her at the time, as her best freind had a good one!

[Frumpy]

axel is hardly a "basic skill".

I apologize. I misread the question and skipped the "basic" part. I answered too quickly and I meant freestyle skating in general. :oops:

[diagetus]

For me, I'd have to say the hardest thing to learn was spins. Spins still seem to be the harder thing for me as opposed to jumps. Here's what my excellent coach told me about student skaters.

1. Most people are either "spinners" or "jumpers". Also, most people are either edge jumpers or toe jumpers.

2. More often, children have to be physically placed in the proper position to understand the movement. It is not sufficient to tell them vocally. Adults understand their bodies more and can be told to do things. Another way to look at it is, that some people learn by the internal feeling and others learn by external/visual cues.

3. It is likely that women are naturally more flexible than men due to the nature of their muscle tone.(Granted, stretching is not a "manly" activity, but even so...) Men will take to the higher level jumps easier because of their narrow hips and natural muscle strength.

When it comes to getting more advanced moves, I've also heard the axle is a toughie.

Hope this helps.

[John King]

I'd say trying to pronouce 'Tatiana Totmianina',without sounding like Porky Pig.

[passion]

I'm just curious, what exactly is the purpose of your research and what is it about? I have not heard about too many studies done on figure skating.

I have to agree with some of the above mentioned opinons already.
1)Axel is not a basic skill. It is a "rite of passage" to the doubles. It is a big obstacle to overcome, especially for adult skaters learning it for the first time and may take a few years to get.
2) Adults and kids learn differently. I think adults are more cognitive in learning. You can explain things more to an adult whereas the same explanaition to a kid will go over their heads.
3) Hardest basic skills to learn are basic stroking, crosscuts, edges and making it look effortless and smooth and not "beginnerish".

[Bella]

Re: the axel, I also find it one of the most difficult. It was the first "big" jump I learned, so it was a rite of passage for me, and doubles followed after that. But before I got it it just seemed impossible, and then when I started to put it into programs after I got it, it was always cheated on the take-off. When I got new skates and blades, I lost the jump completely and never got it back. So I can still continue to do the doubles, but not an axel. Strange, isn't it?

I have spent alot of time practicing and fixing it since, and I CAN do it once in awhile, and it is no longer cheated, but I just find it so incredibly difficult. I envy the people who can just float through the air once they get it. It used to be like that when I first got it - it was like, now that I know how to do it, it seems so simple! Unfortunately that feeling never returned.

[viennese]

one of the hardest things to learn is crossovers, backward and forward, against your natural "handedness" or "footedness"

small children - ones so little they don't know if they're right or left handed - don't seem to have as much trouble with this. but if you start skating when you're, say, eight or older, your mind seems to get in the way and you'll find that you have a "easy way" and a "hard way" doing crossovers. And turning, spinning, rotating too.

[Bella]

Oh yes, I agree, I remember crossovers being quite hard to get at first! Especially the backwards ones.

[mdvask8r]

I have to agree with John King. ;)

[AshBugg44]

For instance, did you know that in ISIA alpha, or maybe even beta, I can't recall, the child has to spin on two feet to get good marks!!! Its step by step by step and then its all talent and perseverence, they say.

The two foot spin is actually required in FS 1, although in competition for technical programs, Pre-Alpha through Delta competitors are required to do one FS 1 element.

[unafaluna]

I think the hardest thing to do once you have mastered the basics is making it all look effortless.

[Schmeck]

Effective, proper back crossovers! Without bending over at the waist, without the scratchy toepick sound...

Even some of the senior US ladies haven't mastered this skill. :oops: At the senior level, no one should be able to hear you scraping picks on the ice.

How about spelling Anton and Elena's last names, never mind pronouncing them, LOL!

[kempy]

hi thanks for all your thoughts they are really helpful!!!someone wanted to know what the reserach was for, well i am studying product design at university and chose skating as the subject of my project as i used to skate. i have to design a product that will help a skater to develop a skill they find hard.

[doubletoe]

I always found any 1-foot turn to be nerve-wracking when first learning it (outside and inside 3-turns in the beginning, and later, the more difficult 1-foot turns).

[VegasGirl]

For me, I'd have to say the hardest thing to learn was spins. Spins still seem to be the harder thing for me as opposed to jumps.

Wholeheartedly agree!
But I started skating as an adult (at 38 years old) maybe that's the problem, cause it seems that kids have an easier time with that.

[VegasGirl]

Effective, proper back crossovers! Without bending over at the waist, without the scratchy toepick sound...

Even some of the senior US ladies haven't mastered this skill. :oops: At the senior level, no one should be able to hear you scraping picks on the ice.


I think that's more a problem of relaying the proper concept than actually doing it right. And especially when you encounter people who still try to teach you to cross over without lifting one foot over the other but instead crossing infront.

[Kevin Callahan]

Get me a product that makes breaking in boots faster, easier, or less painful and I'll petition the prof to give you an A! :P

[dbny]

I think that's more a problem of relaying the proper concept than actually doing it right.

And I think it's the exact opposite. Most people understand what they are supposed to do, but cannot do it. That's what exercises are for, training in the steps that lead up to mastering a specific skill.

And especially when you encounter people who still try to teach you to cross over without lifting one foot over the other but instead crossing infront.

Different people learn in different ways. I've had students who learn very quickly without lifting one foot, and others who don't get it that way at all. In terms of proper technique, either is acceptable. It's a matter of style, and if you watch elite skating, you will see both. Eastern Europeans pretty much all pick up the crossing foot; Americans and Canadians not so much.

[Bothcoasts]

And I think it's the exact opposite. Most people understand what they are supposed to do, but cannot do it. That's what exercises are for, training in the steps that lead up to mastering a specific skill.



Different people learn in different ways. I've had students who learn very quickly without lifting one foot, and others who don't get it that way at all. In terms of proper technique, either is acceptable. It's a matter of style, and if you watch elite skating, you will see both. Eastern Europeans pretty much all pick up the crossing foot; Americans and Canadians not so much.


It's interesting...at our rink (in the U.S.), we encourage skaters to pick up the crossing foot on both forward and backward crossovers to teach weight transfer and balancing on one foot. After they've mastered the crossovers and passed through alpha and beta respectively, we have them work on instead sliding the foot through in front. Even though it's not common here, we've found that the practice of picking the foot up has helped strengthen skaters' cutbacks on the "sliding" crossovers later on.

[Jump]

This may sound really strange, but i think one of the hardest things to do is to keep your arms up. So many skaters can do double jumps and flying spins but skate with their arms floppy. That doesn't look to great in competition.
I remember when I got back to skating after a year off, my arms used to ache after each practice. It's a lousy habit to skate with floppy arms, but it takes alot of will power and strength to keep them up.