Do you have to be able to do 2-foot spin to do 1 foot?

[Twinkletoes]

Silly question-ish...

I've been wanting to do 1-foot spin but my coach told me that I have to be able to do two-foot spin and personally I find it more difficult. I tried spinning 1-foot spin several times and I did it better than 2-foot.

[TashaKat]

A lot of people find the 2-foot spin helps to get the feeling of rotation. I learned the 1-foot spin first and find the 2-foot spin really uncomfortable and really difficult to do especially when you do it with your feet parallel. The only way that I can do a 2-foot spin is if I do it in 3rd position (from ballet).

I suppose that the answer to your question, then, is that you don't have to be able to do a 2-foot spin to be able to do a 1-foot spin :)

[Kit kat]

the two foot spin is the base for all future spins. Just be patient and try to get that spin right. before you know it you'll be moving onto more spins! If you move on to other spins, it might not meet the full potential. Good luck to you!! :D

[batikat]

(modelled after the 'purple cow' poem)

I've never done a two foot spin,
I never hope to do one,
but from the spins I'm doing now,
it's certainly not necessary......... (Rats! That doesnt' scan nor rhyme!!)

OK I couldnt make it rhyme but basically while it may be desirable it isn't necessary. I never could get the hang of a 2 foot spin and still can't do one now - well a couple of rotations at best and that's very forced.

My scratch spin from back crossovers is pretty good though - I can do quite fast, centred 10+ revolutions. Would persevering at the two foot spin (it's not something that's particularly pushed in the UK I dont think nor is it on tests here) have helped my spinning? I dont' know.

If your coach wants you to do them though, she/he probably has a reason (if you find out what it is please let me know) so it's probably worth following their advice.

[TashaKat]

If your coach wants you to do them though, she/he probably has a reason (if you find out what it is please let me know) so it's probably worth following their advice.

Hiya :D

One of my coaches (Level 5) got me to do the '3rd position' 2-foot spin in preparation for the back spin. The idea was to start to weight my right foot until I could actually stand on it AND spin :) To be honest this didn't help at all :giveup: and just doing them 1-footed was how I finally 'got' it (after a fashion).

[NickiT]

I never learned to do a two-foot spin before doing a one-foot. I don't think it really matters. Perhaps it helps get the feeling of spinning, but it's not absolutely necessary.

Nicki

[stardust skies]

Hmm. Well, the USFSA never requires a 2 foot spin in their tests, the first spin is a one foot. I could not do a two foot spin for the LIFE of me when I was little. I have one of the best scratch spins of anyone I know though, and I got it pretty soon after I stopped working on two foot spins. The two foot spins really just always confused me about where the weight was supposed to be on the blade.

I STILL to this day cannot do a two foot spin, so I just cheat it, spin on one foot, and keep the other so close to the ground that you can't see it's not actually spinning whenever I have to demonstrate one for somebody. You really don't need two foot spins in skating though so if it's not helping you with your one foot spin, I think it's a royal waste of time. A good coach is one who is able to see what will help you and what won't, and wasting time on a skill you won't actually ever need to master by "principle" because it's "supposed" to be learned first when you might have more success with the one foot spin is really unnecessary.

[jazzpants]

Hmm. Well, the USFSA never requires a 2 foot spin in their tests, the first spin is a one foot.NOT for the adults... the Adult Pre-Bronze FS test has BOTH a two foot spin and a one-foot spin. (I should know... it's the very first USFSA test I've ever taken...) :P

I could not do a two foot spin for the LIFE of me when I was little. I have one of the best scratch spins of anyone I know though, and I got it pretty soon after I stopped working on two foot spins. The two foot spins really just always confused me about where the weight was supposed to be on the blade.I definitely couldn't do a two foot spin as well as the one foot spin for a while, but one of my old secondary coaches (whose coach was THE Ronnie Robertson...) changed all that... :lol:

Given that, my two foot spin still sucks... but not as bad... :P

[Thin-Ice]

You don't have to be able to do a 2-foot spin to do a 1-foot spin.

I learned a one-foot spin in my first year of skating and there were no Adult tests then. (It was one of the only things I ever learned easily!)

When I went back to take the Pre-Bronze FS test*, I still couldn't do a two-foot spin -- so I just kept my right foot very, very close to the ice... and it was marked as "nice two foot spin" on my test papers. My coach and I laughed about that, but I KNOW there was only one foot on the ice.

*I decided I needed to get out and test in front of the judges on something I felt good about before taking my next (and more difficult) test. I also went back and took the Pre-Bronze and Bronze moves when I started trial judging, even though I didn't need to for competitions... but because I thought I should know what the tests felt like from a skater's point of view.

[blue111moon]

According to my coach, the two foot spin, besides teaching rotation and momentum, is also the basis for learning to change feet in complex spins. I learned my two-foot spin in CCW direction but my 1-foot in CW so this is a challenge for me. My pivots also suck for the same reason. Two foot spins serve as more than just a prep for one-foot spins, so I'd say learn them anyway.

[CanAmSk8ter]

I know quite a few coaches, including myself, who initially teach the backspin by having the skater do a two-foot spin and then pick up the foot. For most of the freestyle-level skaters I've taught, this works best, althought I'm personally open to other ways of teaching it if a skater has trouble with this approach.

[renatele]

I know quite a few coaches, including myself, who initially teach the backspin by having the skater do a two-foot spin and then pick up the foot. For most of the freestyle-level skaters I've taught, this works best, althought I'm personally open to other ways of teaching it if a skater has trouble with this approach.

I've been wondering how backspin works from a 2-foot spin... do you mind explaining to me? I'm just confused, as in 2-foot (CCW) one should be on LBI and RFI (please correct me if I'm wrong). How do I get to RBO?

backspin challenged - Renata

[Twinkletoes]

Thanks for the replies - they really help.

It'll take me ages to do a 2-foot spin and some (if not most) people here in Indonesia spend a year at this one level which includes the 2-foot spin. It is included in the test but not when I'm back in London and to be honest, I've seen much more better spins up in Ally Pally than down here so I'm thinking of begging my coach to teach me 1-foot instead. I've tried to do some 1-foot and I found it easier to do.

I tend to use the toepick though - quite badly. With them spins, I tend to lean in and use my inside edge which stops me from spinning. Spins are the hardest to learn. I hope it won't take me months and months just to get the hang of it. :roll:

[Mrs Redboots]

When I was in learn-to-skate, the 2-foot spin wasn't a requirement, and I've never learnt it. I spin extremely badly anyway, but far better on one foot than on 2! And best of all on the wrong foot, in the wrong direction, with a really weird entry..... go figure, as they say!

[Isk8NYC]

The ISI requires a 2-foot spin before the 1-foot spin in their testing progression. I think a lot of adults learn the 1-foot and get pretty good at it before they formally "test" the 2-foot. You sort of re-learn it when you do that.

The keys to a 2-foot spin are: start with a bent-knee, let the arms/upper body create the rotation, keep the arms/upper body "toward" the spin direction (CW/CCW), and KEEP YOUR KNEES TOGETHER!

Re: The knees: If you spread your feet apart, you're not spinning - you're gliding in a tight circle that will eventually slow you down to a stop. If you think of keeping your knees together, it'll be just close enough for a tight spin.

[BelleOnIce]

Hi,
Iv skated for years and I was never taught a two foot spin, I went straight on to one foot and learned how to do loads of positions.
Recently though as my mum has been learning to skate and iv been helping her Iv tried a two foot spin which she has been taught (same coach just ten years of a difference from what was taught when I started to what is being taught now) I at first found a two foot spin quite hard as it just didnt have the same momentum as I was used to but once I dont it a few times it was easier, I think alot of that was down to jumps. If I had learned it all those years ago I cant imagine it would have been too sucessful but after years of spinning and jumping it seemed easy enough!
sorry got bit side tracked their..................basically I didnt need to learn a two foot spin to do a one foot and I think my two foot spin is probably better now than if I had learned it first!
Belle :D

[stardust skies]

NOT for the adults... the Adult Pre-Bronze FS test has BOTH a two foot spin and a one-foot spin. (I should know... it's the very first USFSA test I've ever taken...) :P


Seriously?! That's not fair to you guys at all. I think the two foot spin should be banished to skating Hell. I mean, LOGICALLY speaking, managing to spin on TWO blades and finding TWO sweet spots should be harder than on one, right? I move that the two foot spin be moved to the Senior FS/Gold FS tests. That would be hilarious.

[stardust skies]

According to my coach, the two foot spin, besides teaching rotation and momentum, is also the basis for learning to change feet in complex spins. I learned my two-foot spin in CCW direction but my 1-foot in CW so this is a challenge for me. My pivots also suck for the same reason. Two foot spins serve as more than just a prep for one-foot spins, so I'd say learn them anyway.


Hmmm I completely disagree with that. In change foot spins, you have to learn to shift your weight from one axis to another in a snap second. In two foot spins, you have to learn to keep your weight straight down the middle. If anything, that'd confuse me more than anything else.

[jazzpants]

Seriously?! That's not fair to you guys at all. I think the two foot spin should be banished to skating Hell. I mean, LOGICALLY speaking, managing to spin on TWO blades and finding TWO sweet spots should be harder than on one, right?Who knows... I think I also did what Thin Ice did and cheated that two foot spin. My ex-secondary coach (Yes, Thin Ice... that secondary coach I told you about...) told me when I did my two foot spin in front of her that I wasn't doing them correctly. Had no idea too... I did the test over a year before and passed it.I move that the two foot spin be moved to the Senior FS/Gold FS tests. That would be hilarious.TRULY EVIL!!! MUHAHAHAHAHA... :twisted:

[Twinkletoes]

The ISI requires a 2-foot spin before the 1-foot spin in their testing progression. I think a lot of adults learn the 1-foot and get pretty good at it before they formally "test" the 2-foot. You sort of re-learn it when you do that.

The keys to a 2-foot spin are: start with a bent-knee, let the arms/upper body create the rotation, keep the arms/upper body "toward" the spin direction (CW/CCW), and KEEP YOUR KNEES TOGETHER!

Re: The knees: If you spread your feet apart, you're not spinning - you're gliding in a tight circle that will eventually slow you down to a stop. If you think of keeping your knees together, it'll be just close enough for a tight spin.

Very very useful tip - I will surely keep that in mind! I'll be skating on monday I hope I will progress. *sigh* There's no getting out of 2-foot for the test so I'll just have to learn it.

Ta chuck!

[Justskatie10]

call me nuts but what's a one foot spin??????

[Mrs Redboots]

call me nuts but what's a one foot spin??????I expect you've seen skaters do it without realising that's what you're watching - when they stand on the ice on one foot and spin round rapidly, ideally on the spot. You will soon be learning how.....

[dooobedooo]

.... I hope it won't take me months and months just to get the hang of it. :roll:

Some people can spin easily, but some people take years to learn. Favourite quote: "you have to enjoy the JOURNEY".

If you find one -foot spins easier, then stick to those for a while.

IMO these are the differences with a two-foot spin, compared to one-foot:

- weight is more evenly distributed in two-foot spin
- blades are flatter on the ice, almost a complete flat
- more feeling of lightness on the blades
- spinning point is still on front of blade, but further back than one-foot spin
- the outside foot doesn't technically do a spin, it is really a sort of forward pivot; but if you just focus on your upper body rotation, relaxed slightly bent knees, and evenly balanced feet you don't even need to think about that

However, the rotational elements regarding arms, shoulders, torso etc., are about the same. That's why it works for some people to focus on rotation, do two-foot spins, then lift one foot to get one-foot spin.

[Chico]

I never learned a two foot spin either. Recently my coach wanted me to do a two fit spin for something, can't remember why, and I two footed myself right onto my tush. =-0 I have a good scratch most of the time, so ...no.

[Mrs Redboots]

Some people can spin easily, but some people take years to learn. Favourite quote: "you have to enjoy the JOURNEY"Hmm, I think my husband does, judging by how far his spins travel.....

[Skate@Delaware]

When we were learning spins, we learned from a progression:
learning arm positions by swinging them around....
2-foot spins from a pivot
2-foot spins from frontwards skating (usually 2 strokes)
1-foot spins from a pivot
1-foot spins from a frontwards skating
scratch spins from a 3-turn (yes, it can be done!), then from back crossovers

then we "worked" on backspins from a 2-foot spin, but only 1 person really got it and it wasn't me :oops: ;so it was backspins from a 3-turn and that didn't happen for most of us either (all I did was manage to catch the heel of my blade in my pants and rip them (my favorite ones) and fall)

[Isk8NYC]

Kids always teach themselves or others to spin the wrong way. Wrong direction, wrong entry - doesn't matter. If you don't teach them three different ways to start a spin, they'll pick up one that will take you weeks to re-teach. Oh, and by the way, the coach is always wrong because the way they do it is easier so it must be right. That coach is just being mean to make me do it the hard way. (And the parents of these children wonder why they have trouble with school teachers.)

Just to keep it interesting, I teach them what I call my "Matador Spin." Sounds very intriguing, no? Glide forward on two feet on an outside curve. Keep your arms to the outside of the curve - both of them, like you're holding a bullfighter's cape. Then, yell "Ole'" and start the spin. That's the tricky part: they have to make a sharp turn on bent knees (most of them end up stopping LOL) and s-w-i-n-g their "cape" across their body to trick the pretend bull. By swinging the arms, they start the spin with their arms across their body in the direction that they want to spin. All they really have to do then is stand up straight and they'll get a few rotations.

[flippet]

I've been wondering how backspin works from a 2-foot spin... do you mind explaining to me? I'm just confused, as in 2-foot (CCW) one should be on LBI and RFI (please correct me if I'm wrong). How do I get to RBO?

backspin challenged - Renata


That's exactly the question I have....how on earth would you get a backspin out of a 2-foot spin? You'd have to flip across the hollow to the outside edge, and why on earth would you want to do that when you're just learning the crazy thing? Not to mention that instead of spinning around the same axis (as you do when you go from a 2-foot to a 1-foot), you'd have to spin around a parallel axis--like laying an 8 on its side--2-foot around one lobe, then flip across the hollow to the outside edge, to spin around the other lobe.

It just isn't making logical sense to me.

[renatele]

It just isn't making logical sense to me.

Glad I'm not the only one confused here... LOL.

[skippyjoy_207]

Silly question-ish...

I've been wanting to do 1-foot spin but my coach told me that I have to be able to do two-foot spin and personally I find it more difficult. I tried spinning 1-foot spin several times and I did it better than 2-foot.

Same goes for me. I can do a one- foot spin for about 4 revolutions, but my 2 foot spin barely goes for 2.

[Isk8NYC]

I don't know about a two-foot to back spin as a learning experience: the two foot spin is (at best) done on the inside edges. The back spin is done on the outside edge and it really feels different because of the edge and the body position/rotation. All I think you'd learn is that this is the hard way to try this maneuver! LOL (No offense intended if it works for you!)

However, if you can already do a scratch and a back scratch, you can use the two foot to practice the TRANSITION for a change-foot spin. Check the archives -- there's some good drills for learning change-foots.

[doubletoe]

Silly question-ish...

I've been wanting to do 1-foot spin but my coach told me that I have to be able to do two-foot spin and personally I find it more difficult. I tried spinning 1-foot spin several times and I did it better than 2-foot.

I can still barely do a 2-foot spin, but I can do a flying camel and a combination spin with change of foot and a change of position, so what do you think? ;)
There's just something awkward about having to keep your weight on both feet when spinning. . . But try to indulge your coach if you don't have a choice. And if you've been practicing the 1-foot spin on the sly, try doing it "by mistake" sometime when you're supposed to be doing a 2-foot spin for your coach, ha ha!

[stardust skies]

I can still barely do a 2-foot spin, but I can do a flying camel and a combination spin with change of foot and a change of position, so what do you think? ;)
There's just something awkward about having to keep your weight on both feet when spinning. . . But try to indulge your coach if you don't have a choice. And if you've been practicing the 1-foot spin on the sly, try doing it "by mistake" sometime when you're supposed to be doing a 2-foot spin for your coach, ha ha!

Indulging your coach can be quite an expensive courtesy though, if they're keeping you on easier elements that you don't actually need (and I'm not talkin' MITF, cause you need those) and you can do the tougher ones. It's a total extreme example, but I remember a few years ago my coach was on my case about the timing of my double loop...I'm not exactly sure what he wanted or what was wrong with it- to this day I haven't figured out why we kept going over it because I was landing them fine and they weren't cheated. Needless to say, one day I got really frustrated and went for the triple that I had been practicing on my own (shhh...I don't reccommend it) for months, and the look on his face....oh, it was classic. I enjoyed it. His argument before was "you'll never get a triple out of that double loop". After I did that triple loop, we never worked on my double loop again. (And it's still fine..it's also one of the only triples I have that do not come and go as they please.)

Moral of the story: know when to concede that your technique is lacking and that you need extra practice- and be patient and listen to your coach. But sometimes, coaches are super-nitpicky and if you feel you are being held back, speak up, and see what they say. They might agree with you and just think you didn't WANT to move on, or that you weren't capable of it. Only you can know if that's true or not.

Disclaimer: don't practice triples on your own. I have some permanent hip scarring that might not be there if I hadn't been so "adventurous". :halo:

[blue111moon]

However, if you can already do a scratch and a back scratch, you can use the two foot to practice the TRANSITION for a change-foot spin. Check the archives -- there's some good drills for learning change-foots.


This is what I think I meant. Thanks, Isk8NYC. :bow:

I'm severely spin challenged and my coach has learned to use all kinds of references to get me to catch on. Maybe the reference to two-foot spins only makes sense with me but I understood what she meant when I was doing it. :idea:

[diagetus]

I can't really do a one foot spin, but I can do a 2 foot spin. I'm sure many wanted to "get on" with a one foot spin because they look real nice, however you can make a two foot spin look very cool if you hold your legs about shoulder width. Whether you learn the two foot spin or the one foot first, I believe you should be comfortable with both essentially for the reason given by blue111moon.


stardust skies
I mean, LOGICALLY speaking, managing to spin on TWO blades and finding TWO sweet spots should be harder than on one, right?

Heh, never thought of it that way. The two "sweet spots" are just behind the toepick on one foot and the middle area of your other blade. In rollerblading/skating it is much more obvious because you can see the person literally use the front wheel on one skate(toe) and the back wheel(heel) on the other skate. For both mediums the two leg is learned loooooong before a one leg spin and for both mediums, the direction of the spin makes a difference. Skating towards the inside edge of the middle/heel skate is easier. In ice skating, it's much more subtle and this probably accounts for the difficulty some people have in capturing the move.

As Isk8NYC said, keep your knees bent, just as in most other moves in ice skating. I don't know how close Isk8NYC is suggesting your knees should be because I've seen nice spins done with feet at shoulder width, but it could be bad form. In theory, the spin can be drawn out an infinitely long period of time. It has a seamless, perpetual nature that doesn't seem present in the other one-leg spins. If the spin slows down there has to be some space between the feet in order to reload the spin. Your feet (and arms) can't stay closed forever.

Many people do a two foot spin (albeit uncontrolled) when coming out of other movements like stops and turns; they just don't know it. With one foot you have less room for error. Just a slight tilt too far in one direction and you have to put your other leg down. Now you're back to a two foot spin again. It's possible to spin on one leg, then lightly drop that leg, spin on two feet, then raise one leg to get back into a one leg spin. When you see it done the trick looks fabulous, but it seems to be a rare move. Not only that but it prevents the one foot spin from being an "all or nothing". Your two foot spin can act as a cushion for any errors on an one foot spin. I suspect that would cushion the blow on negative scoring more so than falling or completely pulling out of a required spin. Suddenly, your "error" looks more like an added "artistic element" in the skate program.

[Andie]

When I do 2 foot spins, they're kind of cheated. I'm not fully on 2 feet. I spin mostly on one foot with the other partly touching the ice, if that makes sense. I do 1 foots better.

I've never done spins on roller/quad skates. I don't think I've even tried. It seems more scary on wheels than on blades.

[diagetus]

Andie
I've never done spins on roller/quad skates. I don't think I've even tried. It seems more scary on wheels than on blades.

You'd be surprised. Some moves on wheel skates are harder to do, but this probably isn't one of them. A two foot spin is definitely easier than a one foot in that skate medium. The fact that your edges are... how should I say... broader when you angle, makes it very difficult to take make an edge too deep. Falling on wheels is not like falling on blades. You can fall to the side, front, and back on a blade. It's hard to slip to the side on wheels, because they really don't like moving perpendicular to their rotational axis. This is not a problem with with blades. If you want to start on wheels, be my guest, but you probably don't have to learn rollerblading or rollerskating to learn how to do a two-foot on blades. It may help, but it's still not exactly the same thing.

For example, there are many ways to do a two foot spin on wheels - heel-toe, heel-heel, toe-toe, inside toe-inside toe, etc. The spin that I was refering to was a heel-toe. It's so common at rinks that you could probably see a kid doing one on a saturday night public session. You could talk to the owner of the rink and they'll show you one of the many "regulars" who can do it. Then just ask that person to demonstrate the move. The spin looks like a caricatured/exaggerated version of what you would be doing on ice. Just reduce the rotation of your ankles to make the move more subtle and you'll have it.

[russiet]

Andie


You'd be surprised. Some moves on wheel skates are harder to do, but this probably isn't one of them.

Well, I feel inspired!

I switched to PIC skates last April when the ice went out for summer. It's taken me a while to get up to the same level of proficiency as with ice skates, and I'm still not quite there (that's not saying much).

I've stayed away from spinning after having a hard time of it the first week, but I should definetly go back to it and try some more.

Ice won't be back in until mid-September. Will spinning on wheels translate well back to blades?

Jon

[singerskates]

Who knows... I think I also did what Thin Ice did and cheated that two foot spin. My ex-secondary coach (Yes, Thin Ice... that secondary coach I told you about...) told me when I did my two foot spin in front of her that I wasn't doing them correctly. Had no idea too... I did the test over a year before and passed it.TRULY EVIL!!! MUHAHAHAHAHA... :twisted:

ROTFLOL Oh my gosh, two foot spins are easy. I can wip anything between 6 and 10 rotations easily out of them.

What I do for two foot spins is to make sure I bend deep enough with my knees, start with the (CCW) my left arm infront of my right shoulder and my right arm behind the middle of my back. Then I sping up and bring my arms around me still held horizontally out to square the spin and centre it and then after two revs or so, I bring in first my right arm and then my left arm. After this I've gotten 4 revs out of the spin and then I just stay in the spin for another 4 or so revs. To get out I bring my left arm out first and then the right, then I lift my left leg passing it behind the right leg and guide out of the spin on my right outside edge. This gives you a nice fast spin. Oh, while I'm spinning on my two feet, my left foot is on a slight inside forward edge and my right foot is on a slight inside back edge.

singerskate

[diagetus]

russiet
I switched to PIC skates last April when the ice went out for summer.
and
Will spinning on wheels translate well back to blades?

I've heard and read about these PIC skates and they're supposed to be a better alternative for ice blades than the average recreational rollerblade or even traditional quad skates. It seems like some of the ice skaters have ported over to this new figure wheel system and are pushing it forward. I've skated on and done spins on recreational rollerblades and I can tell you that the feeling of edges translates over better (more so than a traditional quad), but the ability to feel the ground under you is reduced. The PIC skate may have fixed this problem, but in my opinion the traditional quad lets you get closer to the floor than a recreational rollerblade. With an ice blade, you can feel the tiniest bumps on the rink. A rollerblade's wheels absorb most of that, so you feel disturbance only in the most chaotic of surfaces. Most of the recreational skates are made for the outdoors so they are designed to hold up to the rougher surface conditions. Once again, movement perpendicular to the axis of rotation will be difficult on a wheel system, especially if your wheels are soft and rubbery. If you can do a camel spin on your PICs then you'll be a rock star on your ice skates. Many of the adept skaters who did both ice skating and roller skating said that the advanced spins (basic one leg and up) are harder to do on roller skates. From my limited experience, I'd agree with that. This is not so in all cases. Jumps and low moves are usually going to be harder on ice skates (shoot-the-duck or low spin, waltz).

I guess I didn't really answer your question, but yeah most of the stuff you do should translate over pretty close, but it won't be exactly the same.

[hopeful_skater]

I am pretty much a begginner (Basic 3 Level), but I can do a 2 foot spin, but not a one foot. wierd, huh? most people are good at 1 foot, but I'm good at two foot and I can't do a one foot to save my life! :?:

[Thin-Ice]

Recently my coach wanted me to do a two fit spin .

I KNOW this is a typo.. but it certainly describes how I feel about two-foot spins!!! ;)