Program rumors/confirmed truths?

[Kylen15]

:D Has anyone heard anything about who's doing what for their Olympic year programs? Somehow, I don't think my "I want Sasha Cohen to skate to the soundtrack from Twin Peaks" counts.

[lotusland]

At this point in the season many skaters have not revealed their music choices :( but have announced their choreographer(s) of choice :) A few skaters; such as Tim Goelbel and Stefan Lindemann, have posted on either their official websites or through their federation what their music is and who is doing the choreography. Here is a partial list of available info:

CANADA:
Jeff Buttle
SP = new
LP = new
Choreography by David Wilson

Ben Ferriera
SP = new
LP = new
Choreography by David Wilson (LP)

Shawn Sawyer
SP = new
LP = new
Choreography by David Wilson

Leslie Hawker
SP = Smile (keeping Marcotte's program from last season)
LP = new
Choreography by Julie Marcotte

Cynthia Phaneuf
SP = new
LP = Capriccio Espagnol (keeping Wilson's program from last season)
Choreography by David Wilson

Joannie Rochette
SP = new
LP = new
Choreography by David Wilson



CHINA:
Min Zhang
SP = new
LP = new
Choreography by Joanne McLeod

Pang & Tong
SP = new
LP = new
Choreography by Sarah Kawahara

Shen & Zhao
SP = Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini (Rhachmaninov)
LP = Madame Butterfly (Puccini)
Choreography by Lori Nicol (SP & EX), Lee Ann Miller (LP)



EUROPE:
Stefan Lindemann
SP = selections from "Robots" soundtrack
LP = keeping last season's program
Choreography by Lee Ann Miller



JAPAN:
Takeshi Honda
SP = new
LP = new
Choreography by Nikolai Morosov

Nobunari Oda
SP = new
LP = Zatoichi soundtrack (keeping Wilson's program from last season)
Choreography by David Wilson

Miki Ando
SP = new
LP = new
Choreography by David Wilson

Shizuka Arakawa
SP = new
LP = new
Choreography by Tatiana Tarasova

Mao Asada
SP = new
LP = new
Choreography by Lee Ann Miller

Fumie Suguri
SP = new
LP = new
Choreography by Lori Nicol



RUSSIA:
Irina Slutskya (not revealing choices until Russian Test skate)
SP = new
LP = new
Choreography by Sergei Petukov



USA:
Tim Goebel
SP = Sing, Sing, Sing (Benny Goodman)
LP = A Night On Bald Mountain (Modeste Mussorgsky)
Choreography by Tatiana Tarasova

Johnny Weir
SP = The Swan (Saint-Saens)
LP = Liebestraum (Franz Liszt)
Choreography by Tatiana Tarasova and Evgeny Platov

Jordan Brauninger
SP = new
LP = new
Choreography by David Wilson

Sasha Cohen
SP = Dark Eyes (keeping Morozov's program from last season)
LP = new, something classical
Choreography by ?

Michelle Kwan
SP = new
LP = something by Rachmaninov (according to a very reliable poster on FSU)
Choreography by Tatiana Tarasova

[Artemis]

Wow, what a busy boy David Wilson is this year! I'm happy for him -- he's such an immensely gifted choreographer -- but I'm also a bit concerned that he won't have the time to do everyone justice.

(Also he's our "secret" weapon. How dare he work for anyone else!? ;) )

[LittleBitSk8er]

I have seen many parents bring in coaches to choreograph programs for their children. I was talking one time with a very high-level skater who is at our rink at times and was over whelmed to hear that a choreographer could be as much as $4000, for these skaters. (International/Olympic) For that kind of money how long to they actually "work" the program? The programs most skaters perform transform and grow over time. So how much time, days, weeks should one expect with a choreographer of that caliber?

[Magz]

It's been posted on FSU that Mao Asada dumped Lee Ann Miller's programs, and is now working with Lori Nichol.

[CanAmSk8ter]

I have seen many parents bring in coaches to choreograph programs for their children. I was talking one time with a very high-level skater who is at our rink at times and was over whelmed to hear that a choreographer could be as much as $4000, for these skaters. (International/Olympic) For that kind of money how long to they actually "work" the program? The programs most skaters perform transform and grow over time. So how much time, days, weeks should one expect with a choreographer of that caliber?

The couple of choreographers I know usually work with skaters for a week or two, then another week or two a few months later. That's for an hour or two a day, maybe a bit more.

I've also heard rumors of choreographers charging more than 4K, but I can't say for sure that it's accurate. I think it probably is.

[lotusland]

Choreography fees have a HUGE range. 8O

The most affordable way of getting choreography set is to use your own fulltime or part-time coach. In this case, the coach normally charges the skater the whatever their normal coaching fee is e.g. $8.00 for 15 minutes up to $30.00 for 15 minutes. Plus a fee for finding/editing the music.

Usually, the most costly choreography is set by a professional choreographer. Here too, fees can range quite a bit; depending on several factors, for example:

1) is it a short or long program
2) is it for singles, pairs, or dance
3) who (what skater/team) is it for
4) what level does the skater/team compete at: local, national, international, world/olympic
5) how established is the choreographer (reputation)

When Lori Nicol was the "professional choreographer du jour" her programs were reportedly in the $10,000 - $15,000 range. As other choreographers have achieved or neared her level of success, her fees have (I'm told by those who have used her services) reduced somewhat to become more competitive with her peer group.

[skaternum]

The couple of choreographers I know usually work with skaters for a week or two, then another week or two a few months later. That's for an hour or two a day, maybe a bit more.The Big Name choreographer at my rink is just finishing up working with a national men's champ from Europe. They worked about 3 hours a day for 8 days (maybe 9?). They'll get together for another week just before Skate America to tweak stuff.

I've also heard rumors of choreographers charging more than 4K, but I can't say for sure that it's accurate. I think it probably is.This sounds about right for a top tier choreographer. A second tier choreographer might run about half that.

When I have Big Name do my piddly little Silver ladies program, we'll work for about 4-5 hours, and I'll pay by the hour. (Thank goodness.)

[WeBeEducated]

Unless you are a competitive senior level skater, expecting to win a regionals medal and qualify at least for sectionals, then I think paying $4000 for a choreographer is an absurd waste of money. However, i can't blame the choreographer for taking advantage of such ummmm, well, stupidity.

Almost all rinks have at least one coach that is especially creative, up to date with technical requirements, and knowledgable about music.

One of the reasons an outside choreographer costs so much is that the skater must pay for all of the travel expenses and hotel/meals for the duration of the stay.
That can add up to quite a ticket.

Some skaters travel to the choreographers home rink and spend a week training there as well as learning the new program, which is often modified back at home by the skater's real coach.

$10,000 is ridiculously overpriced, $4000 is too much, and $500 is just about fair.

[Sparkey]

I remember a mother of a Junior man saying David Wilson was charging $4000 for a short program and $6000 for a long program three years ago. I would guess that senior is more, and with cost-of-living increase....!!!!!!!!!! But then, look at the success his choreography has had. Absolutely beautiful programs. Yes, it's a shame that Canada's secret weapon is no longer ours alone.

[Tapper]

$10,000 is ridiculously overpriced, $4000 is too much, and $500 is just about fair.

So it's not always "you get what you pay for"? Just curious.

[LittleBitSk8er]

Well, I guess it is a "good thing" that we are not there yet. My daughter is far from that level, but it just blows my mind! Like everywhere else you do get what you pay for. So, I guess if she was at that level I too would find a way to pay for the top choreographer, or at least the best I could afford. Do these athletes and parents get any help from USFSA in the way of funding? (Senior/National/International/Olympic etc.) Or, am I looking into a pipe dream?

Makes me think I am in the wrong business....

[skaternum]

Unless you are a competitive senior level skater, expecting to win a regionals medal and qualify at least for sectionals, then I think paying $4000 for a choreographer is an absurd waste of money.Well, yeah. The original $4K comment was about a very high level skater. My comment was about a world-level skater. I think nobody here would argue that they're going to cough up that much $$ for their little Intermediate skater. Heck, by the time I'm done with my choreography, I expect I'll have paid less than $400 for Big Name choreographer to do my freeskate, which I'll use for 2 years. (Big Name, btw, is closer to a second tier choreographer who has done winning programs for various national champs & world medalists in Europe, not one of the Lori Nichols or Morozov A-list types, FWIW.) Given how much I put into my lessons, ice time, costume, etc., that doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

$10,000 is ridiculously overpriced, $4000 is too much, and $500 is just about fair.For a world-level skater, I'd say it's a little high, but not by as much as you claim. Good choreography can make a huge difference, especially under COP. And good choreographers are hard to find. The local coach may be great up to a point, but sooner or later, if you want to skate at the senior level, you're going to have to pony up for a good choreographer. IMO Granted, $10K doesn't necessarily guarentee a good program.

Personally, I'm tired of seeing programs that all look alike because the elite skaters are only using a small pool of choreographers. Part of my definition of a "good" choreographer is someone who creates something unique and appropriate for the skater, while still maximizing the scores. I'm not convinced we're seeing much of that these days.

[sk8er1964]

Personally, I'm tired of seeing programs that all look alike because the elite skaters are only using a small pool of choreographers. Part of my definition of a "good" choreographer is someone who creates something unique and appropriate for the skater, while still maximizing the scores. I'm not convinced we're seeing much of that these days.

I was wondering how unique David Wilson's choreography will be this year with all those skaters. He did some wonderfully unique stuff last year.

[tdnuva]

Personally, I'm tired of seeing programs that all look alike...
Second that.

...because the elite skaters are only using a small pool of choreographers. Part of my definition of a "good" choreographer is someone who creates something unique and appropriate for the skater, while still maximizing the scores.
Did it come to your mind that this is not only because they use a small pool of choreographers? It seems to me that the skaters themselves try to stay comfortable. Out of what I see in the routines and out of some interviews.... seems they don't want to try out different music. "I stay with what I won last time." They don't want difficult choreographies. "I have no time concentrating on my jumps." They want to use choreographers with a good standing in the eligible scene cause obviously the judges still not only judge what they see.

I am still fuming when I think of what was called Dean's Bolero for Kwan last season. And then there was this docu about Plushenko and others where we could see a VERY disappointed choreographer who saw his work butchered by Mishin. I think it's not fair to blame the choreographers mainly.

[lotusland]

IMHO, it's a good general rule; "you get what you pay for." BUT, a talented choreographer does not necessarily turn each and every skater they work with into a talented performer. As a choreographer, you have to work with what you are given.

Under the 6.0 system or OBO, choreographers could try to hide a skater's shortcomings and really play up their long suits, as a result many different skaters looked at their best even though they had a wide range of skills. To me, CoP is a completely different ball game ... its all about scoring points, not necessarily about putting a piece of art on the ice.

Today the masterpieces seem to only happen when a talented choreographer, who has a very thorough understanding of the CoP scoring structure, is paired with a talented skater who has a solid set of skills and also WANTS to put forth the precise program and performance that was laid out for them. Paying big bucks in this case is probably a pretty good decision. Paying big bucks to a choreographer whose work the skater never intends to actually perform (as it was set) ... well, probably not such a good investment.

[twokidsskatemom]

We are using for the first time, a chor and not my skaters coach to do her artistic program this year.This person has worked with a Senior well know skater as well as others.
We are only doing this as A. she has expressed an interest in helping our skater as she gets older/better, and B she giving a seminar in our state that our skater is going to anyway.It will only be a few days of lessons, and it will have our skater get used to using a chor and not her coach.Its not the end result right now, its the experience. She will use the program for an ISI comp and then for a USFSA comp, with some modifcations.We all are excited and it will only be a few hundred to have done.

[Lives to skate]

I have skated World Class Men's (in Roller) and Adult Gold at Nationals winning first place 4 times. I did my own choreography to high acclaim! Each skater knows their own strengths and weaknesses. No $4000 choreographer can make a silk purse out of a sows ear. You have to have the skills first. Then it is easy to make a good program.

Video tape yourself doing various moves to different pieces of music. See what looks good on you. Experiement and have your primary coach help your decisions.

Trying to come up with something new and innovative is what everyone wants. I can use my own brain and creativity rather than pay that much. No choreogrpaher is worth $4000 for 1 program, sorry.

Study different types of dance, ballroom, ballet, jazz, hip hop, MTV and broadway shows and movies. You will be surprised at the number of good ideas you can get. Burton

[Lives to skate]

Michelle Kwan's Bolero was a bomb. I hope she asked for a refund from her choreographer. :giveup:

[tdnuva]

Michelle Kwan's Bolero was a bomb. I hope she asked for a refund from her choreographer. :giveup:
I would say Chris Dean should bring her to court for what she did with his choreo..... she is ruining his fame (at least among Kwan fans).

[dooobedooo]

I would say Chris Dean should bring her to court for what she did with his choreo..... she is ruining his fame (at least among Kwan fans).

Hmmmm .... Whizzoom sits on edge of seat, expectantly awaiting what the new season brings from Tarasova's magic touch ....

... Thinks: Who will win - TT or old MK? :??

[Skatingsarah]

Shawn Sawyer
SP = new
LP = new
Choreography by David Wilson

Shawn has gotten a new long program but is keeping his same short program from last year, the libertango.

[lotusland]

JAPAN:
Kensuke Nakaniwa
SP = new
LP = Lord of the Rings (keeping Wilson's program from last season with some adjustments made to it)
Choreography by David Wilson

[sorryaboutthat]

Ryan Jahnke and Matt Savoie both have Tom Dickson working on their programs I think, Ryan is using Aaron Copland's Rodeo for the long and it is unbelievable according to reports from the Broadmoor Open. Did Matt Savoie skate at Broadmoor Open? Anyway I don't know what his music is.

[WeBeEducated]

I think Tom Dickson is the most brilliant choreographer, because his programs never look the same, are conceptually based on the skaters strengths and the music, and his choreography is so unique that it's impossible to emulate!

My all time favorite program ever was done by Dickson for Janke(the Brazil program).
But, looking over the 94 Olympics video recently I also realized how superbly choreographed were Kerrigans programs.
My whole family rewatched and we all exclaimed that none of the current ladies had such wonderful programs. Nancy was doing solid triple triple combinations too! So, by just using her regular coach Kerrigan had two exciting, beautifully performed programs .
And, Scotvold choreographed some of the other all time great performances, by Wylie.
Most of the big name "choreographers" in skating are just former skaters, some did not even achieve that much in their own skating careers, and very very few have substantial experience or training in ballet/dance.
I think it is just a fortunate time for "choreographers" but this expensive fad will probably pass.
I still say that unless you are a very high ranking skater at the senior level, use one of the talented coaches at your rink who can choreograph for you a good program and assist you throughout the season to make adjustments.

[galaxybounce]

I just wanted to add my few cents into this debate. I think that everyone is right that the choreography for Jeff and Rochette were very good. I like the transitions and how they used the ice to the music.

I also wanted to say that some of the skaters do well without high priced choreography. I think that to say that the cop is just a points game as apposed to the old 6 point 0 system is wrong. The new system while not being prefect is much better. Did you ever ever see people that had new and interesting moves coming up to the top? NO People like Buttle would have been way way low down and Lambiel would have done moderatly but not have gotten the recognition for his increadible spins. So I must say that the new system is much much better and I really enjoy seeing new moves and more accurate way of adding up all the different points. of course no system is perfect and it's going to have some skaters higher than other based on rep.

[Kylen15]

((And incidentally, Kwan's Bolero was worse than Ashley Postell's Bolero, if that was even possible, and yes, you have to be a gym fan to get that))

Does ANYONE have a clue what her music will be? At this point, I'd rather see Lyra Angelica revisited than get a piece of #$@& like she had last year. All due respect to Dean and Kwan, the program did not work, and they should have realized it in November.

[lotusland]

According to Jenny Kirk's official website, Oleg Epstein choreographed a new long program for the new season, Jenny will be skating to 4 selections from Moulin Rouge.

[skaternum]

Jenny will be skating to 4 selections from Moulin Rouge. :roll: Oh, brother.

[Kylen15]

Actually, I think that's a good choice for Kirk, especially if she includes "Tango De Roxanne." She is in need of something with more power than her last three programs.

At risk of my life, what about Kwan skating to a movie soundtrack, like "Titanic" or one of the "Lord of the Rings" films? Just a thought. I spend way too much time contemplating music, but since I love music, it's no surprise.

[pennybeagle]

:roll: Oh, brother.

Miami University's synchro team did a program this past year to selections from Moulin Rouge, and it was fantastic. I will have to see what Kirk does with it, of course, but I am of the opinion that she does fun character pieces very well.

There are tons of people who do "dramatic" or "lyrical" programs. Kirk can pull off a bit of musical theater campiness, so this might actually be a good direction for her to go...as long as she has a definite character in mind. Chicago worked for her, because she really went over the top with it and BECAME Roxie Hart on skates. Mamma Mia did not, but that's because she skated to ABBA like she was skating to Strauss (which is why the Strauss program ended up being better for her that season). Just MHO...