USFSA Magazine slam against parents

[NiceIce]

Have you read the article in the latest magazine(Sasha is on the cover) ostensibly about "CLUBS" but in actuality a sarcastic and negative slam against all the types of parents involved in skating ?
Sure, we all know it's supposed to be funny to describe the parents of skaters in a harsh light, but I think to see it in a USFSA magazine, written by a USFSA commitee person, is outrageous.
Any skater could write a similar slam against the types of Coaches and all their negative qualities...but would it ever appear in the USFSA magazine?no, nor should it, and what purpose would it serve?
It could be something like"then there is the type of coach who pontificates from his perch behind the barriers without ever moving a finger much less his feet on skates, and charges you $80 for repeating the info he did yesterday"
sure, it could be just as "funny" as the slam against parents
the same could be done about judges! It could be very descriptive and funny, but the negative implications would keep it out of a USFSA publication.
So, I am shocked and unhappy that the USFSA thought the sarcastic and disrespectful humour against parents in the article was info we needed or wanted to see. It was caustic but not funny, and it was snide and condescending. Did it motivate ANYONE to participate more in their Club? ha
quite the opposite
Parents of skaters come in all forms and personalities, and most are amazing at what they put up with, spend, and do to keep their child in skating! Why make fun of them?
:x

[Sylvia]

You must be referring to this article?

http://www.usfsa.org/news/skatemag/080902/clubsmatter.htm

You can always e-mail any comments/complaints to SKATING magazine at: skatingmagazine@usfsa.org

[Mazurka Girl]

I don't think they're making fun & ridiculing the parents. I think they're suggesting that parents analyze their approach to skating so they avoid fitting into one of the less than positive categories.

My mom has worked for the skating club for years. I see parents like those described on a regular basis. If you are not directly involved in day to day club activities, you may not be aware of how many of those parents actually exist. My mom has regularly gone out of her way anytime a skater or parent asks for assistance, but you would be amazed by the rudeness of some of them. People have called our house at midnight wanting permission letters, or demanded she meet them at 6:00 a.m. to sign forms so they don't have to miss work or be late. One time someone called her names & threatened to change clubs because she wouldn't make a special trip to Kinko's at 10:00 at night to fax their form even when she told them we didn't have a fax at home but she would send it to them by 9:00 the next morning from work so they would have time to get it postmarked. That service wasn't good enough for them & of course it's always our emergency because they have neglected to plan properly. I could go on with pages of real horror stories, these are only a few mild examples about signing forms.

There are many nice parents in skating, but after what I've seen over the years I'd say at least about 30-40% can be pretty obnoxious. So no, I don't see anything wrong with pointing it out in the hopes a few of them might recognize themselves & make some changes. The parents who are the most difficult are never going to volunteer or help the club anyways, but they may at least tone down their insufferable behavior if they see it presented in that light, which would make things a lot more tolerable for the hard working parents & volunteers who do have good intentions.

[flippet]

I agree with Mazurka Girl, I don't think they're necessarily trying to 'make fun' of parents either. It's somewhat of a cariacature, but like she said, sometimes it's scarily accurate. The only one I have a bit of a problem with is the last one---yes, newbies often behave like that, but how would you rather they behave? Just slam right in and do things, whether they know how to do them or not? I think the author was trying to point out these different styles in an effort to aid volunteers in working with each, but I think perhaps some personal frustrations came through a little too glaringly.

[loveskating]

I dunno...those types all seem recognizable to me...but it seems to me that the USFSA ought to tone it down...these are the people who pay their bills, and its the job of the professionals, the Director, the staff etc. to learn to deal with all sorts of people, not to complain that their job is made difficult or better by different types.

Its like a supervisor having a fit because people call in sick...its his/her JOB to be prepared for and to deal with that, for crying out loud...which is one reason she is paid more than they are.

[Mazurka Girl]

Originally posted by loveskating
Its like a supervisor having a fit because people call in sick...its his/her JOB to be prepared for and to deal with that, for crying out loud...which is one reason she is paid more than they are.
I don't think this is a good comparison because the people who run the club are volunteers not paid supervisors or even employees. I know my mom in any given week spends 15-25 hrs a week on skating club stuff, even though she does have a full time paid job & other things going on in our lives too. I think when that's the case, the least that can be offered is some common courtesy, especially when the obnoxious parents are not the ones giving up their free time to help out. A lot of them have already been asked & couldn't even be bothered to give 2 hrs a year.

[jenlyon60]

I've seen most of these stereo types over the years of helping...

What I've noticed is that it always seems to be the same set of parents or moms who are willing to give volunteer time to help with club functions and activities.

And... it seems like it's always the same few parents who can't get the test forms for their kids submitted on time to the test chairpersons, or who always wait until the very last minute to find a club officer to sign a competition application. And those types are usually never available to assist with club activities and functions.

JMO

[manleywoman]

I spent two years volunteering my time to a club, and it was a miserable experience, due to a lot of the reasons given above. I had a lot of parents with personal agendas trying to put me in the middle of their problems; parents complaining that I wasn't doing anything right and how they could do it better (but as usual, they didn't have the time to do it themselves); parents calling me bending my ear for hours about rink gossip; etc.

There was one parent who was a board member, and who did nothing but politely argue with everybody to the point that nothing got done in a meeting, and who loved to tell all the rest of us how he would do things if he were in charge of X, Y or Z. And EVERY time we suggested that he take charge, with no hesitation he always replied, "well I'm not going to do it." I swear he just got his giggles from showing up at board meetings just to make things go slower. And interestingly, when you look back on all the times we voted for whatever he suggsted, it always turned out to be the wrong choice.

I got off the board, joined a larger club with more adult representation and a better overall support system, and have never been happier.

It's amazing that every morning I have to dodge a few parents on my way out the door who want to get my opinion on the latest rink gossip. I could care less, I just want to skate and go to work! I think they mean well, but a lot of these parents do nothing but hang around all day and gossip while their kids skate. When I was a kid, my mother dropped me off at the rink and went out to do her own thing.

NiceIce: I thought the article was a bit heavy handed, but fairly accurate. The reason they wouldn't post an article about coaches like that is that, from what I understand, the PSA has seminars and literature about ethics in coaching. And most coaches (though not all) are members of PSA in order to get accrediadation, so coaches would at least be made aware of their behavior through some of the PSA training. There is no organization really that suggests how a parent should act. So perhaps this was the only way the USFSA can get in touch with the parents.

[Lee]

Maybe a bit 'overstated' but not by a lot! I've seen all those types in my years of involvement in skating. I avoided the 'newbie' thing by jumping in with both feet on our club's board of directors the first year my daughter skater, and I was through most of the positions on the board during the 10 years I served.

The most frustrating are the Takers and the Stop, Drop and Run -- the Control Freaks just tick everybody off, depending on how much they 'lord' it over everyone. In many ways, one of the best positions for a 'Control Freak' is the presidency -- they can talk all they want, but when push comes to shove, they only vote in case of a tie. The best way I found to manage the 'High Maintenance' parents was to get them involved and help them learn -- we usually ended up with dynamite volunteers then.

And people are right...it's usually the same group of parents who are willing to help with everything, be it test days, registration nights, fundraising or hosting competitions. Those are the people you treasure because most of them are doing it for the 'right' reasons -- to help the kids.

I think the author's intention was to get people to take a look at themselves. The parents in a club can make or break it, depending on their behaviour. I would hazard that 'most' parents could be "Participants" -- we just have to find the right ways to use them. Everyone has talents or skills and if they're approached the right way...

I have no problem with the article -- should be required reading for every parent in every club (including Canada).

[pilgrimsoul@work]

I don't find this article offensive at all. I bet the only parents offended by the article are the ones guilty of the undesirable behavior described in it. I wouldn't be surprised if the volunteers who work hardest and give the most read this article and thought to themselves, "YES! Somebody finally said it!"

[NiceIce]

I too have seen individuals fit into those described sterotypes. I have seen all of those, and more. They left out the ones about the "volunteer" Club mom who doesnt have to work a regular job to support her family, who prides herself on being Mrs. Volunteer of the Year, and enjoys looking busy and important at the rink, etc. but... that wasnt my point.
I could also very easily describe accurate and negative sterotypes of coaches; common and familiar sterotypes that are based on the truth and real experiences that almost all skaters could relate to. The same goes for judges!
The point is not whether or not some of the descriptions of skating parents were familiar, but why the USFSA felt that an article that categorized skating parents into negative cliches was informative, or motivating, or entertaining.
I expect more from the USFSA.
Negative input does not motivate people to perform ,or to change.
The article was simply catty and gossipy, and was condescending.

If some people have the freetime and energy and desire to do volunteer work for a skating club, they should do so graciously. Once they start griping and complaining about all they do while the "others" are not doing their part they fall into the same stereotypes...volunteer martyr with a holier than thou attitude!
The USFSA shouldnt bite the hand that feeds it.

[NiceIce]

Volunteer work is a choice, not something you can demand.
All those who choose to give their "25 hours per week" etc., are doing it for a reason, usually a self serving reason one way or another.

Those who volunteer for Clubs may like to feel important in their skating world, or often like having some aspect of control in their childs'skating organization,(test chairs!) or like the feeling of having a closer connection to the pros...on and on, for whatever reason, if they do it and enjoy it -fine, but doing it and sitting in constant negative judgement of others is not what the volunteer spirit is all about!

The way to encourage others to WANT to give service to a Skating Club is NOT by badgering them or condescending to them.
The Skating Magazine article is unprofessional and totally unmotivating.
It was "lobby talk" ...nothing more.
It was also unoriginal and not what I expect from a USFSA publication, but just what I expect from some of those very busy, often self-rightous "volunteers" who have forgotten the spirit behind volunteer work.
My point was that it didnt belong in a USFSA publication, accurate or not.

[Artistic Skaters]

Originally posted by NiceIce
If some people have the freetime and energy and desire to do volunteer work for a skating club, they should do so graciously. Once they start griping and complaining about all they do while the "others" are not doing their part they fall into the same stereotypes...volunteer martyr with a holier than thou attitude!
It sounds like the point has been missed that the majority of people do volunteer graciously, would prefer volunteering for a reasonable number of hours & do not have a martyr complex or make unreasonable demands in return.

There is a lot of business that needs to be conducted in order to keep a club running. Frequently work goes undone even when needed because there simply are not enough people to do it. It's not all about the parents, however a lot of parents do cross the line on a continual basis. When someone has graciously volunteered time, if they are doing it for the right reasons, it is to benefit skating. Not to only benefit their child or certain skaters or parents, or because they want to climb the USFSA ladder for personal gain. Willingness to volunteer does NOT give troublesome parents the right to treat a volunteer with disrespect, demand one act as their personal servant, give them the authority to chase one into the bathroom or parking lot & expect them to drop everything & meet their demands 24-7, or a lot of the other things that go on day in & day out in skating. There is such a thing as making an appointment & calling during reasonable hours & surprisingly, a good number of parents have yet to learn it. Parents also do NOT have the right to monopolize a volunteer's time for 10 hrs when they only had 5 hrs to give. The root cause of these problems has nothing to do with being gracious as a volunteer, but with the bad & unacceptable behavior of parents. Please & thank you are as important in the parents' vocabulary as they are for children. The view of Paul Wylie's mom regarding parental leadership is right on target in that article.

It's wonderful to say volunteers should only volunteer when, where & for how long they desire, but it does often come down to pleading & begging for volunteers in order to keep events going; & even then a lot of the same people still get stuck with the jobs. It's boorish to say that any volunteers who agree to extend themselves to help get the jobs done (when there's a manpower shortage or other problem) automatically means they have a martyr complex or are doing it only for inappropriate reasons. More often it's because they want to make sure the skaters can have their event, or because they may have a generally strong work ethic, or are committed to the cause. If we had a few more volunteers punch a time clock & absolutely refuse to overextend themselves in anyway, after a few cancelled tests or competitions, & less fundraising & checks to help skaters with expenses for sectionals & nationals, I bet we'd hear a different tune.

A person can be a good volunteer & still disapprove of parents who have bad attitudes & ill manners. One does not cancel out the other & volunteers don't have to be doormats. A big round of applause to the USFSA for pointing out some of the problems even if the article could have been edited a bit better.

[blue111moon]

I'm thinking of distributing copies of the article to all the parents in my club because, since the magazine is delievered to the skaters, I don't know how many of the parents will see it. God knows my club could use a few more Participants, for whatever reason.

Part of USFSA's purpose is to educate skaters and parents and personally, I find an article like this one much more useful and readable and applicable to a greater majority of members than the disertations on the physiology behind the mechanics of triple jumps that they have been running. I didn't find it condescending or insulting - just accurate and done in a mildly humorous way.

It seems to me that the only people who might be offended are the ones who see themselves in the not-so-positive categories. And frankly, the ones that I can think who fit those archtypes to a tee probably won't read the article anyway - or will refuse to recognize themselves if they do. But there's nothing in that article that isn't true - and I thank USFSA - usually known for painting rosy colors over the entire sport - for addressing the issue.

[loveskating]

Well, I don't deny the truth of the article...but it takes all kinds, and the search for a perfect world is bound to fail.

It might be better to just accept the reality and find very loving and creative ways to deal with and/or help all the jerks...and of course, pay people more who have to do so, LOL! Extreme jerks, now that's another matter.

[Mazurka Girl]

I agree with blue111moon & think the fact that the USFSA has openly recognized the problem exists is a step in the right direction. I would have no problem if they also did an article about some of the other problem areas, like general coaching problems that exist in skating which could lead to parents & skaters making better informed decisions. Providing information to as many different groups as possible about potential or existing problems is a good step to take toward resolving some of them.

NiceIce, have you taken this article out of context? It was included in a column called "Clubs Matter", whose main readers would be club boards, administrators, & volunteers. It is supposed to be about club issues & administration. It is not a direct open letter to obnoxious parents in skating, although it's good for everyone to see the type of issues that are of concern to clubs. Unrealistic parents have been & continue to be a relevant issue. The article also covers problems within club management like monitoring who's volunteering for certain positions & watching out for conflicts of interest.

loveskating, I don't understand your references to paying people more, etc. The USFSA has long been a huge volunteer effort & I've seen nothing to indicate this will change anytime soon. The only paid employees are office administrators in Colorado Springs who run the headquarters. So clubs cannot add a "jerk surcharge" (as tempting as that might be :lol:), they can only ask for understanding & cooperation from the members.

A club is not like a five star restaurant. It's more like a co-op where members all have a share of it & it will become what they all make of it. A parent's right to complain incessantly, make demands & cause trouble should be curtailed at some point if they do not want to take part in the work involved or become part of the process that keeps the club going.

My club has a lot of parents & skaters who never volunteer. The club is still happy to have them & they are always welcome & included in club activities. The difference between them & the parents in that article is that the parents in the article rudely waste everyone's time & constantly harp on what they're not getting the whole time they use club services. An individual USFSA membership (btw this year it costs $25 more than my club membership which provides a lot more services) might be better for some of them if clubs can truly never do anything right & cause them as much anxiety as they claim. Then they get to sign their own competition forms & don't have to call my mom at midnight. :D

[NiceIce]

well then, lets see one on judges and coaches! lets put all the truth out!
I am sure many people think there is alot to fix, and to "teach" about those two groups and their behavior , that would benefit skaters and clubs!

[Mazurka Girl]

I doubt the USFSA would do one on judges, since they are overseen by the judges committee & bound by the rulebook. Complaints about any of them would need to be pursued individually via grievance procedures. But the USFSA does have a lot of documents available, like what makes a good trial judge & judge, how judges should conduct themselves at events, plus more that are available for everyone to read off the web site. The more information the better IMO.

As far as articles about the pros & cons of what to look for in coaches, I'm all for it. It could be considered a public service. :D

[SJ82]

This article is so dead on and I hope that each parent will take a long look in the mirror after reading.
NiceIce, I think thou doest protest too much.

[NiceIce]

Mazurka..that wasnt a "teaching" article! come on! That was my whole point. It was just self rightous slams.

Since it was in a USFSA publication, directed at members, and read by the people MOST involved in skating(children and teens, as well as parents) I think it was inappropriate and full of stereotypes.

The examples of bossiness, indifference, rudeness, and self centeredness the article listed against parents can be seen in all the people associated with skating , including some of those Club members who rule the clubs and feel good doing so...but the article was full of mean spirited put downs, and that isnt productive, motivating or conducive to teamwork , is it?

Just as annoying as the parents who dont help out much with Club functions are those that make sure they have a finger in every pie, and then whine about all they do!
But I dont feel that the USFSA magazine needs to evaluate the personalities of parents and offer up totally negative comments about the "types" they decided to profile!
No club will get parents motivated by that kind of attitude...of that I am sure.

[Artistic Skaters]

Originally posted by NiceIce
Just as annoying as the parents who dont help out much with Club functions are those that make sure they have a finger in every pie, and then whine about all they do!

No club will get parents motivated by that kind of attitude...of that I am sure.

The parents you are referring to in your first statement above are annoying, but I wouldn't say 'just as annoying' because at least they are contributing to the cause & doing some work. I don't think the parents who don't help out are annoying if they are pleasant & reasonable & try to cooperate - there will always be parents with scheduling problems & other legitimate reasons they can't volunteer. Problem parents are the ones who are always unreasonable, expect their kid to get special treatment at the expense of everyone else, & have ridiculous expectations about what they're entitled to for their $50 membership - they haven't figured out it doesn't include domestic maid service.

I disagree with your last statement. I've already heard parents discussing the article & planning to volunteer. They are not parents from the most unflattering categories though. Those parents are never going to vounteer in the first place, so why waste time trying to recruit or convince them? What they need to learn instead is to stop crossing the line with their overzealous & unreasonable demands & confrontations. That article could be very useful as a reference to hand out to them if necessary. I'm glad the USFSA is discouraging that kind of parental behavior & putting it in writing. First the sportsmanship policy in the rulebook that includes parents, now this. If you think that article was bad, don't read the ones Bob Mock used to write in American Skating World unless you really want to work yourself into a frenzy.

[NiceIce]

nope, I havnt seen any of Bob Mocks' articles complaining about parents of skaters, but I can easily imagine it since parents bear the brunt of many acidic jokes by coaches.
As for $50 Club fees and parents hoping to get alot for it, well, the truth is many clubs are charging fees of hundreds of dollars to simply be a member!
I can understand anyone questioning the value of such fees and expecting to get something from it other than a test session on home ice now and then.
For those $50 clubs, I salute you and hope you get lots of parental involvement in a supportive, and positive atmosphere.

[Yazmeen]

The article is dead on. Tonight, my club held its annual awards party along with a meeting. We are literally a phoenix rising from the ashes left first by just the type of parents described in that article and then later by someone who's way of running things was "my way or the highway." Ironically, just as we're coming back several of the more established and elite clubs in the area are going down in flames due to the same problems we suffered and lack of communication between members, including the parents and clashes of egos and battles for who is in charge and whose ideas are "right." I consider this article a good step by the USFSA along with its new Parent's "Survival Guide" and the designation of a "Parent's Liason" for each club. The article is not nasty, its expressing true concern.

[Scott]

It seems to me that there is a very simple solution to the problem of club members who never help out: Make it a requirement of memberships that every club member participate on a committee, assist with club functions, etc. This can easily be done and I see no reason not to enforce such a rule. It is quite simple: no participation, no membership. By working on various committees and performing various functions these non-particpating rude idiots will find out what is involved in running a club and will then become more productive.

[Mazurka Girl]

Originally posted by NiceIce
I can understand anyone questioning the value of such fees and expecting to get something from it other than a test session on home ice now and then.
There's questioning, & then there's "questioning". There's nothing wrong with parents requesting a statement or asking questions about how funds are being spent...ahem...a good reason to read a club's annual report...something else a lot of them rarely do. But if they don't like how funds are being used, then it doesn't entitle them to unlimited griping if they don't want to get involved. Find another club or buy an individual membership.

BTW NiceIce...for someone who is offended by stereotyping of parents you certainly have no problem stereotyping volunteers. My club has 12 test sessions a year, not one on home ice only now & then. I volunteer because I grew up in an environment where people were encouraged to volunteer their time, in both skating & other areas, because it's helpful to the community. With few exceptions the volunteers I know share that philosophy. I'm done with my tests & competitions, I volunteer because I like skating & kids, as does my mom. I can tell from your comments that you cannot relate to that idea but thought I would share it anyway.

If your rationale is that it's okay to stereotype volunteers since we are stereotyping problem parents, what makes it different is volunteers are doing something worthwhile & obnoxious parents are not.

[NiceIce]

I volunteer inside and outside of skating, and I think it is one of the great things about our country that we value volunteer contributions!
However, if I am hoping to involve others in similar efforts I dont profile them and list their faults in order for them to "see" how bad they are for not doing things MY way!

[manleywoman]

Originally posted by Scott
It seems to me that there is a very simple solution to the problem of club members who never help out: Make it a requirement of memberships that every club member participate on a committee, assist with club functions, etc. This can easily be done and I see no reason not to enforce such a rule. It is quite simple: no participation, no membership. By working on various committees and performing various functions these non-particpating rude idiots will find out what is involved in running a club and will then become more productive.

We tried this exact thing at my old club. We asked that if parents or their kids could not put in 10 hours a year of volunteer time (which isn't much!!), that they pay a fee to at least do some good for the club (I think it was $50?).

Well, you wouldn't beleive the blow-ups we got over that one. Total nightmare. Basically, the people who did the volunteering (about 10% of the club, and half the board members) thought it was a great idea, and the rest of the club members (about 90% of club and the lazy half or newer members of the board) were outraged and called it extortion. It was a major bone of contection at board meetings, and pushed a lot of hard-working volunteers off the board.

Good idea on paper, but at least for us it didn't work at all!

[Mazurka Girl]

The article is not about doing things one person's way or even one club's way. The parents described in 2-3 of the categories are never going to be in the volunteer pool so everyone might as well accept it that no volunteer campaign is needed for many of them. Obnoxious parents & their harassing ways exist in skating like anywhere else, & the article is recognizing that & giving clubs suggestions for dealing with them.

[Jack]

Nice Ice, what are you getting so upset about? The article was aimed at clubs to try to help them deal with parents. It was accurate and helpful. My guess is that you're one of the parents described in the article and the truth is stinging a bit.

[Scott]

Originally posted by manleywoman


We tried this exact thing at my old club. We asked that if parents or their kids could not put in 10 hours a year of volunteer time (which isn't much!!), that they pay a fee to at least do some good for the club (I think it was $50?).

Well, you wouldn't beleive the blow-ups we got over that one. Total nightmare. Basically, the people who did the volunteering (about 10% of the club, and half the board members) thought it was a great idea, and the rest of the club members (about 90% of club and the lazy half or newer members of the board) were outraged and called it extortion. It was a major bone of contection at board meetings, and pushed a lot of hard-working volunteers off the board.

Good idea on paper, but at least for us it didn't work at all!

The problem is that you had an out. If you didn't participate you paid a fee. this would never work. As part of being a member there is a requirement to work. Period. No work no membership. You make it part of the membership application process. To make sure evryone works the Board should appoint each person to a committee. That way there is no question. Keep attendance at meetings and functions and thats it. Whats to blow up about? It is about time people took some responsibility and did there own part. There should be no provisions for pricesses and princes.

[jenlyon60]

Wouldn't work at my club. We have 600+ members (2nd largest USFSA membership club). Even discounting that probably half are kids, there's not enough consistent "jobs" for 300 adults.

But... it still would be nice to see more than about 30 of those 300 adults provide volunteer support for test sessions, or competition management or whatever.

[hippiechick]

Oh well I haven't read this article yet, but I will have to. Then I will post a reply about how badly parents are treated in general; sort of like second class citizens, how they are given seats in the nosebleed section at Nationals after they have busted their behinds for years paying bills and working two jobs to get their kids there. Parents should be given front row seats at Nationals, they should be treated as guests of honor! No, in fact I will write a BOOK about what it is like to be a skating Mom; a BOOK for those naive Moms and parents who are just signing their little 5 year olds up for group lessons. I will title it "Warning: You Don't Know What You Are Getting Yourself Into" or something like that. OK I'll quit, this probably has nothing to do with the article, I'm just rambling!!

[Artistic Skaters]

A lot of people who work hard for the clubs & take abuse from these problem parents are parents themselves. Some of them work 2 jobs plus help out. They're not sitting in the nosebleed section because often they're working the event & don't even get to watch it. I'm glad the USFSA is advocating for them for a change. Maybe you should read the article first hippiechick.

[hippiechick]

OK I read the article - not impressed. My reaction was 'what's the point?' Seems like there are much better topics for articles, and more constructive ones. Leave the parents alone, if you can't deal with them.....well whatever field you are working in you will find difficult peolple of one kind or another. It's just part of life.

[TashaKat]

I can't see anything offensive in the article, certainly nothing that I would get stressed out about. Some of the descriptions are fairly tame compared to 'real life' at the rink! If it makes just one person think 'wowch, that's me' and attempt to change their behaviour then it's worthwhile. Unfortunately people like that rarely see what everyone else can see, some of them quite relish their bad behaviour :?

To my mind the only people who would get upset about it are those who can relate to it! If the cap fits and all that!

[Artistic Skaters]

Originally posted by hippiechick
OK I read the article - not impressed. My reaction was 'what's the point?' Seems like there are much better topics for articles, and more constructive ones. Leave the parents alone, if you can't deal with them.....well whatever field you are working in you will find difficult peolple of one kind or another. It's just part of life.
Whatever field you are working in means you are usually paid for your work & time, so consideration is given in financial form if you must constantly deal with difficult people. Leaving the problem parents alone sounds like a one way street. How about if they stop being abusive to volunteers, other parents, skaters, or coaches for no good reason? Then there would be no commentary & it would not become an issue. Never discussing it promotes enabling them & letting the wrong groups take charge of the asylum.

[hippiechick]

It's like Tashakat said; the ones who the article is directed at aren't going to see themselves in this anyway! You know I feel like this site is getting just like FSW was with all of the arguing going on.

[Lee]

Originally posted by hippiechick
It's like Tashakat said; the ones who the article is directed at aren't going to see themselves in this anyway! You know I feel like this site is getting just like FSW was with all of the arguing going on.

If you feel there is a problem with a thread, please bring it to the attention of one of the moderators. I've been following this thread closely and see nothing particularly argumentative about it -- certainly nothing that would warrant comparison to the former FSW. ~Lee

[Yazmeen]

hippiechick: Something you might want to look into: The USFSA has created a small "Survival Guide" for parents of skaters (I think Paul Wylie's mom may have helped with this) and there is now a position for clubs called "Parent's Liason" to help with some of the pressure, and a newsletter for the same is coming in the future.

No matter what one thinks of the article, these are positive steps by USFSA.

[manleywoman]

Originally posted by hippiechick
well whatever field you are working in you will find difficult peolple of one kind or another. It's just part of life.

Just because there are difficult people exist in the world doesn't give them the right to treat others badly. If I see a parent pulling a kid off the ice by their ponytail, I certainly don't shrug my shoulders and say, "well, it's just a part of life."

[kar5162]

Club volunteers are just that - volunteers. While that doesn't mean it's acceptable to abuse them, they are volunteering their time and that means that they can set a limit. If you only have 5 hours a month, don't run for a time consuming position. Don't allow the club to consume 25 hours a week and then complain to all of the parents about it.

I thought the USFSA article broke parents into fairly typical categories, but a little harsh considering it goes out to the skaters. What I thought was poorly done was that there wasn't a description of this "Parents Guide" Yazmeen has mentioned and that there wasn't much advice about involving people. Probably you can't do anything about the Takers. But you might be able to get the Stop, drop, and run parents to help out at your bigger events. Don't just put a check box on the membership form where they'll forget about it though, have someone ask people at the rink (just before the event) if they're available for a couple of hours. And as for the High Maintenance parents...try mentors, or a parent workshop, or a volunteer buddy. Everyone is new at the beginning and especially in skating, the people who have been around for a while are often (but not always) cliquish and appear to "know it all". Let them know that you were new once too and that this stuff is not so bad.

Also - if someone volunteers to volunteer - let them. If they check the box saying they'll help - call them up and ask them to help. If you need to make name tags or stuff bags for a competition, if it's feasible, bring the stuff to the rink for the morning sessions or evening sessions and ask the parents who are there to help. Sneak in the volunteering.

[NiceIce]

ITA !
The article was not full of helpful suggestions to involve more families, nor did it offer creative ways to encourage members who might not be enthusiastic about giving some time to club activities , for whatever reason.
The bulk of the article was all about listing the undesirable qualities in parents and members who dont volunteer much for the club.

I would have liked an article about how to actually enlist the help of others, in a positive way, without the point of view that was presented in that article.
When you are new to skating, the supervolunteers come off as self-important, and intense.
Maybe they should do some reflection about that kind of attitude before they complain and blame.
But if a volunteer is unhappy about the hours/days/weeks they are giving to the club, the solution is simply to cut back on your efforts, rather than do it begrudgingly and complain.
Then eventually, others will begin to reach out effectively to club members who maybe felt they werent even needed that much!
But that would take some of the spotlight away from the supervolunteers and I think they dont really want that to happen, because the ENJOY their clique and complaining about all they do.
To get families involved in club business is not brain surgery and just takes a good hearted, supportive, friendly group of leaders to reach out, thats all it takes.

[Artistic Skaters]

kar5162 made good suggestions for working with the newer parents who may be new, but are reasonable & well mannered.

However, NiceIce, you have yet to give any helpful suggestions for dealing with the abusive unreasonable parents, other than to say one shouldn't volunteer if they aren't going to sit back & take it. I have not gotten the impression that you even believe abusive unreasonable parents even exist or understand the degree of discord they cause for a club.

People who don't want parents calling them at midnight or who don't want to discuss club business over the stall because they have been followed into the bathroom by someone who doesn't have common courtesy are not "self important supervolunteers" - I'm sure they would very much prefer not to give those extra minutes to the club while they are in the bathroom stall, but they have not been given the option & you are not acknowledging the difference.

It's not a matter of extremes - 100% nice parents vs 100% egomaniacal volunteers, or 100% totally awful parents vs 100% volunteer angels. The reality is that many different groups of parents make up the club. One big reason people are discussing problem parents in this topic & the article is because while they may make up only 20% - 30% of the club, they often use an extensive amount of club resources & use up to 10 x (or more) the amount of time other parents do. Because of this, it's definitely relative to club business. People volunteer their time expecting to contribute to productive activities, not wasteful activities. I don't blame any volunteer, whether it's the one who has 2 hrs to give or the one who has 15 hrs (that inadvertantly turned into 25 hrs) to give, or a USFSA chairperson, for speaking up & saying such parents are wasting a lot of time & let's take a look at it & come up with ways to reduce the waste. That's how business is conducted & that's what this column is about.

Again, I don't think the premise of the article is about how to recruit club volunteers.

[Yazmeen]

NiceIce: I have a question: Are you a skater or a club member/volunteer? I'm not trying to pick on you here, I'm just curious as you have such strong feelings about this issue and have made some good points.

Regarding one comment you made:

Quote, NiceIce: "To get families involved in club business is not brain surgery and just takes a good hearted, supportive, friendly group of leaders to reach out, thats all it takes."

Good Grief, I WISH that was all it takes!!!! (I'm a board member and officer for my club). It would be so good if that was all it did take. I have often found that you can be as supportive, good hearted and friendly as can be, and and there will still be parents who, if they don't see all your efforts benefitting THEIR child/skater over all the others, will simply cut and run. That to me was the point of the USFSA article, and while it may not seem helpful, sometimes you have to identify your problems before you can solve them. The "handles" given to the parents may seem a bit sharp, but believe me, they are dead on. As an example, my own club has had one parent who has switched his daughter back and forth, most recently trying to put her in a club that goes to a different Regionals to put her in a better position to make Sectionals (feeling the competition in her own actual area was too strong). Believe me, any support we provided was meaningless to him--all he wanted was a club where he could position his kid to make the podium and move on up the ranks at her level.

One of the oldest clubs in our area, famous and prestigious is now on life support because the old guard in the board refused to consider building a new facility in another location. The rink promptly lost their biggest competition of the year to another, newer rink, the club imploded, and this has even affected their pro-shop which was the place to go for sharpenings, equipment and equipment support. All you need is a disagreement or one/a few people in a club pushing their own agendas to create disaster. And most of those people in the clubs are parents. One of the things, ironically that has helped my club come back is the adult SKATERS who have signed on and are willing to work to bring it back. And several of them don't have kids in the equation. We're also blessed with parents now who have in general, more realistic yet ambitious expectations of their skaters instead of thinking they have next Michelle Kwan.

A successful club requires effort and cooperation, and at least some selflessness from its members. That lack of selflessness is what the article was trying to point out. I think we have to give USFSA and SKATING a chance to continue these articles/columns. I'm sure we'll see suggestions for improvement in the future. Here, they were trying to help clubs pin point the problems.

Good discussion, NiceIce and everyone!!!

Beth

[kar5162]

I agree Beth (and others) that there will always be a few parents that are impossible. But, volunteers are adults and we will meet people like that everywhere. All you can do is focus your efforts on the (majority) of people who are not crazy and impossible. That's where I thought the USFSA article was a little off. Yes, you will have people who will try to make your life miserable. Most people though will leave you alone for the most part, or be willing to help out if you reach out to them correctly.

I emailed the USFSA suggesting they do a follow-up article on the volunteer nature of the USFSA and describe volunteer duties that clubs need. My suggestion was to ensure they include information on smaller involvement areas. Most parents (and adult skaters) WORK. They simply don't have the time (or desire to commit so very much time) to be a judge or club president. If this is mostly what parents see, the idea of volunteering is overwhelming - many times I think people think "there's no way I can do that". If it's a case of signing up to be an ice monitor for 2 hours after your kid skates though, it seems more manageable - then possibly they'll realize it's not so tough and they can do more, but at least you got 2 hours of help. I think clubs can maximize volunteer efforts though by making sure you get the people who can only put in a few hours here and there to participate by making smaller roles available and not intimidating. Just a thought.


Kim

[Mazurka Girl]

Originally posted by Yazmeen
A successful club requires effort and cooperation, and at least some selflessness from its members. That lack of selflessness is what the article was trying to point out. I think we have to give USFSA and SKATING a chance to continue these articles/columns. I'm sure we'll see suggestions for improvement in the future. Here, they were trying to help clubs pin point the problems.
ITA with Yazmeen. Like Mrs Wylie says, skaters & their families can choose empowerment or entitlement (btw she is nice...I sat behind her & Paul's family at my first Nationals when I was 7 yrs old!) What bothers me about this topic are undeserved remarks about volunteers implying almost all of them only do it if it benefits a special interest or fulfills some warped psychological need. If that was the case, why would so many people continue to volunteer long after their children have grown up & have families of their own? I don't think I am being overly optimistic because I believe most people I have met volunteer because they like skating. Many care about the direction of their club especially if they have been in it through a couple generations. There is no comparison between the few who volunteer for the wrong reasons & the much higher percentage of obnoxious parents in the sport. So many actions by nasty parents (& it's a lot more than a few kar5162) are inexcusably bad beyond belief. ITA with the USFSA, club, coach, another parent, rink management or anyone bringing it to their attention to put a stop to it.

NiceIce, the two dimensional commentary about a multi-dimensional issue does become humorous after a point. I'm the first to admit I happily fit into the category where I'll volunteer for 4 hrs & then take my souvenir t-shirt & move on. Well...ok...they don't have to give me the t-shirt to get a volunteer but I'll never turn down a little party favor either, lol. :lol: My mom OTOH fits into a more altruistic volunteer category. She works mainly on her projects at home, & is not at the rink as one of your attention seeking supervolunteers. There's plenty of work that she never signs up to do, but it ends up with her anyway, or another board member who didn't sign on for the task either. It's the "stuff happens, now what?" problems that get dropped into somebody's lap at the last minute. Someone either ends up taking care of it or activities get cancelled. It's usually business related (specialty paperwork or such) & can't be farmed out to someone unless they have experience in that particular area. It's easy to say don't volunteer for more than you can do when someone fits the same volunteer category as me. But when something urgent has got to be done immediately, it becomes a question of "how do we get it resolved" instead of "I worked my 4 hrs & that's all I committed to do so cancel the rest of the season & where's my t-shirt". Most board people will know exactly what I mean when I say there are a lot of exception situations. People who can't or won't recognize that don't have a good understanding of all that's involved in running the club. The column "Clubs Matter" is for a target audience & it would be the group who think clubs matter & are actively involved. :!:

kar5162, I love your comment "Sneak in the volunteering"!!!! I'm going to pass that one along. :D

[NiceIce]

Yazmeen, to answer your question about who I am/my role in skating, I prefer to leave that unanswered so I may be honest with my opinions online.
The truth is, I have NEVER run intoskating parents that I felt were mean or outrageously rude! Yes, i think it is common and understandable to switch clubs...I dont feel the parent that does that is being unfair to the club, in fact, I have first hand experience with the COACHES suggesting the club switch thing all the time, in order to make opportunities for the skater in a crwoded field.
I have more often found the clique of intense volunteers a little bit arrogant, and reluctant to really share duties other than the drudge work and the gopher work.

[manleywoman]

Originally posted by NiceIce

The truth is, I have NEVER run intoskating parents that I felt were mean or outrageously rude!

Then consider yourself one of the lucky few, because those parents are unfortunately very common. And if you had run into them, then perhaps the Skating Mag article wouldn't have been so shocking to you.


Originally posted by NiceIce
Yes, i think it is common and understandable to switch clubs...I dont feel the parent that does that is being unfair to the club, in fact, I have first hand experience with the COACHES suggesting the club switch thing all the time, in order to make opportunities for the skater in a crwoded field.

Fine if they want to switch clubs. But then they shouldn't expect the club to bend over backwards for them if the skater is going to stay only as long as it's advantageous to them. They should just become Individual USFSA members, and not switch clubs every six months.

Originally posted by NiceIce
I have more often found the clique of intense volunteers a little bit arrogant, and reluctant to really share duties other than the drudge work and the gopher work.

Well, walk a mile in their shoes, and you'll see what a thankless job it can be. I'm not condoning rude volunteers, and perhaps the club members are rude at your club, but that does not apply to all clubs. And conversely, just because you've never met a rude parent doesn't mean they don't exist.

Nice Ice, if you don't already, why don't you help out and volunteer for your club? If you want to change the situation at your club and change the USFSA's perception of parents, then put your money where your mouth is and join to your club to help them out and come up with some constructive ideas for change.

[Mazurka Girl]

Originally posted by NiceIce
The truth is, I have NEVER run into skating parents that I felt were mean or outrageously rude!
The main reasons I can think of that someone would never run into outrageous skating parents would be:
1) You do not think any of the examples given here are outrageous or rude. (How about some others I can think of like parents pushing each other in the warming room, parents chasing after & screaming at officials including the wrong ones who didn't judge their kid's test or competition, parents who need to make 20 or more calls to a club person a week (what is the justification for that?), parents who defiantly tell the test chair & USFSA their child will go test when & where they want with complete disregard for the retest waiting period, & then actually try to do it, parents who falsify official & coach signatures on forms so they can do things they might not otherwise be able to do,...) Like I said before the list goes on & on. There are some people who I'm sure don't think anything is wrong with any of these actions. That's why they are happening.
2) You have a harmonious club where all the skaters support each other in a rink utopia environment. Coaches would never consider soliciting, parents bring healthy snacks for all the kids & offer to carpool them to competitions even when they're in their kids skating group. It's true SHANGRI-LA in your skating land!
3) You are a coach. Parents almost never let their coach see them act this way toward volunteers or officials & try to keep the coach in the dark when it comes to this kind of bad behavior.

[Mazurka Girl]

Originally posted by NiceIce
Yes, i think it is common and understandable to switch clubs...I dont feel the parent that does that is being unfair to the club, in fact, I have first hand experience with the COACHES suggesting the club switch thing all the time, in order to make opportunities for the skater in a crowded field.
I could care less if they switch for this reason, although there is a problem where sometimes parents switch (in the case of our club they switch to another coast) & still expect to retain ALL the benefits of their former home (now associate) club such as sectionals & national funding & programs limited to home club members. They can't have it both ways but some of them expect to do exactly that.

[Artistic Skaters]

Originally posted by NiceIce
I have more often found the clique of intense volunteers a little bit arrogant, and reluctant to really share duties other than the drudge work and the gopher work.
I'm happy to know I don't fit into NiceIce's clique of intense & arrogant volunteers. I know this because I have to do the drudge & gopher work myself, LOL!!! Unfortunately so do my fellow club volunteers, so they can't be the intense clique either. Someday we'll take a field trip & visit NiceIce's club so we can see all the arrogant cliques!

manleywoman, forget walking a mile in their shoes, I'd be happy to see her/him walk around the block in them. Can you wear a size 7-1/2? "The truth is, I have NEVER run into skating parents that I felt were mean or outrageously rude!" would quickly (& I mean like in the blink of an eye) become a statement of the past, LOL.