Why is it so difficult for her?

[TheGreasyFry]

I don't understand why it's becoming so increasingly difficult for Michelle to just choregraph programs normally. Doesn't ANYONE tell her that her program has nothing in it? She says she wants to get somewhere and win... but doesn't she see what's happening? Comparatively to previous years, she is going downhill. 3rd at Worlds, Shaky nationals, etc. When her programs had some true choreography in them, she was so on top. Barely anyone could touch her. I mean her choreography was out of this world. I mean even her programs from when she was 13 or 14 were far more complex than they are now. I'm not trying to bash her, I just wish it would get through to her that she needs to change something. I never hear the commentators on TV saying anything. I guess maybe at this time in her career she's going with the play it safe technique, but she could be doing so much better with just a tiny bit more effort on her programs. I was suprised when her program this year was even less choregraphed than earlier years, considering Christopher Dean did it. I mean I doubt he would let her just skate around in circles the whole time. Unless she did a lot of "editing" herself after he was done working with her. I don't know, I just miss what Michelle can actually do. I miss being amazed everytime I watch her :cry:

[backspin]

I highly doubt that what we saw at Nationals was what Christopher Dean gave her.

[icedancer2]

I highly doubt that what we saw at Nationals was what Christopher Dean gave her.

I read an article about Christopher Dean in which the author stated that almost nobody can do the choreography that he gives them, including most of the stuff that he created for Jayne Torville to do when they were skating together. It is always just too darn hard.

I would guess that this was the case with MK's Bolero.

[Aussie Willy]

GreasyFry - I agree with what you say. I used to love Michelle's programs (96 and 97 in particular) but I find her LPs in the last few years are ho-hum and don't challenge myself as a fan of skating. I like a skater who makes me think and I can admire.

[tdnuva]

I read an article about Christopher Dean in which the author stated that almost nobody can do the choreography that he gives them, including most of the stuff that he created for Jayne Torville to do when they were skating together. It is always just too darn hard.

I would guess that this was the case with MK's Bolero.

Basically yes.

BUT 1) There were far interior skaters to Michelle Kwan who did quite a lot of Dean choreography. So why is Kwan not able to do at least a big part of it?

BUT 2) Kwan skated a Dean choreography before (her Rush program). She tried it, she did it - but dumped it for "political" reasons I think. She thought the judges did not like it iirc.

BUT 3) Choreographies are not done at the desk and the choreographer DOES see the skater doing/trying it. That's the way choreography evolves. In the case of Kwan's Bolero there seems almost nothing left of what Dean usually does. And that is very unusual. Seems to me Kwan tries to incorporate the choreography in pieces, like "there will be more of it at worlds". Bad idea imho.

[TheGreasyFry]

I agree that it seems that Michelle is using his choreography in pieces, but why does she do that. We all know she can do much more complex programs. By far everything she has done before has been more difficult. Don't see why now, at this point, she has to go downhill with it.

[lotusland]

I remember watching a biographical piece on Lori Nicol in which she spoke about doing choreography for Michelle Kwan and Sale & Pelletier.

Lori said that, although she loved working with Michelle, she never wanted to watch Michelle compete (her choreography) because "everything" would be changed to accomodate what Michelle could do and would do. For example, Michelle could (like many skaters) only go into her jumps with specific entrances ... an outside three as opposed to an inside three etc. And, after the program was finished, Michelle and Frank (I suppose) would set about altering the program to accomodate what was "comfortable" for Michelle. So, if you think that much of Michelle's work "looks generic or the same" it is likely because she doesn't stick with what was actually designed ... she changes it to what she knows she can do and is comfortable doing.

On the other hand, Lori apparently loved to watch Jamie and David's competitions because they would not change a single thing ... not an arm movement, a head position, footwork, jump entrances, nothing.

Lori went on to say what Michelle/coach did with her work is relatively common amongst skaters ... where as Jamie & David's approach is less common.

[Schmeck]

You also have to remember that the "rules" of skating have changed since Salome. I don't mean actual ISU rules (although of course they have changed) but the amount of 'stuff' that has to be in a winning program has changed.

Some if it has to do with CoP, (although I'm hoping that we'll see more interesting transitions because of CoP), but most of it has to do with the pressure of planning 6 and 7 triple programs, which doesn't leave a lot of room for successful choreography in anyone's programs. Even Cohen plucked the Swan out of Swan Lake.

I'd like to see jumps limited to 5, and the time of a free program extended another 5-10 seconds. Then skaters would be forced to add choreography to fill in the empty sections!

[proam]

I'd like to see jumps limited to 5, and the time of a free program extended another 5-10 seconds. Then skaters would be forced to add choreography to fill in the empty sections!
Please this is skating, you know a sport, not a skating recital. :roll:

Ladies skating is way behind the Men as it is and you want to regress Ladies further?

I praise those Ladies who advance the technical aspect of the sport starting with the great Midori. :bow:

[flippet]

On the other hand, Lori apparently loved to watch Jamie and David's competitions because they would not change a single thing ... not an arm movement, a head position, footwork, jump entrances, nothing.



See, if I were a competitive skater, this is exactly how I'd go about it, too. Changing a choreographer's work right, left, and center is like painting a mustache on the Mona Lisa. Kills the effect. Rather than taking it upon herself to destroy the choreography, why doesn't Michelle work with the choreographer at the time, saying....well, I can't/would rather not use that entrance--it guarantees a fall for me (or whatever)...can you work around it?

But honestly, if it were me...I'd think myself a rather crappy skater if I couldn't adjust to reasonable choreographical choices. Skating is not just 'sport'...it is also art. The best skaters are able to combine the two to make magic. Michelle long ago lost most of the magic--safe doesn't cut it. Is she a great athlete? Yeah, I guess. But she's no longer a great artist. (She does have an impressive live presence, I'll give her that...but presence alone does not art make.)

[Schmeck]

Please this is skating, you know a sport, not a skating recital. :roll:

Ladies skating is way behind the Men as it is and you want to regress Ladies further?

I praise those Ladies who advance the technical aspect of the sport starting with the great Midori. :bow:

Technical doesn't have to be just jumps - and the jumps don't have to have just more rotations, how about more height, more distance covered?

Figure skating isn't just the jumps at all. Remember that there are 8 elements in the short program, and only 3 are jumps. More than half of the 'important' stuff has nothing to do with jumping.

Ito was a great jumper, but the rest of her skating left me cold. Let the men do the quads. Their bodies are better designed for them. How many crippled skaters do you need to excite your interest? :roll:

And if you just see skating as the jumps, then I think there was some 'jump off' a few years ago - might be right up your alley?