Why is everyone counting SASHA out?

[prunes89]

:evil: Why is everyone counting Sasha out? Big mistake guys! Don't ever count out the most talented skater the US, and possibly the World, has ever seen. She's going to amaze us at Worlds. She's gonna rock the house. :bow:
To you nay sayers I say :frus: She'll show you,and she will win.

[supersk8er]

Why do we count her out? Because we've been saying what you're saying right now for the past couple of years, and we just get disappointed when she..."pulls a Sasha".

[NoVa Sk8r]

I guess the only answer I can provide is that "everyone" of whom you speak is sick of counting her IN. It's put up or shut up, and so far, she's not skating up to her potential. She has all the talent in the world, but when, oh when, is she gonna put together 2 clean programs in one competition? <sigh>
It would be amazing if she amazed us at Worlds, considering how lackluster she's been this season.

[Schmeck]

I'm hoping that she pulls it together, because it's getting boring watching her blow it all the time...

[Sk8n Mama]

The field is very deep this year. In this field, no one will be able to have a meltdown. It's possible that Sasha could finally do it but maybe it's too little too late. I also think that her regular inconsistency will cause the judges to count her out. Plus, she didn't skate the GP and, honestly, I can see ISU judges knocking those who didn't participate because they were very upset about it (ie: the threatening memo).

I don't want to get into, beyond that, why I don't count in Miss Cohen because it's a personal preferrence issue and I don't want to spurn a big debate with her fans about her abilities. Suffice it to say, I don't see her finally pulling off the clean programs and, even if she does, I think she's beatable.

[Schmeck]

But her inconsistency could play to her advantage - everyone is expecting her to mess up, so the pressure is off, right? Kind of like Hughes at the Olympics, the underdog has the advantage of lack of hype/pressure. So don't count her out, maybe she's just playing head games with all of us, instead of with herself, LOL!

[evereg]

But her inconsistency could play to her advantage - everyone is expecting her to mess up, so the pressure is off, right? Kind of like Hughes at the Olympics, the underdog has the advantage of lack of hype/pressure. So don't count her out, maybe she's just playing head games with all of us, instead of with herself, LOL!IMO Cohen and Hughes is not a good comparison. Cohen has too much talent and status to be considered an underdog. However, if she keeps performing the way that she has, she will be consider to be an underachiever.

[Frau Muller]

Sasha should do well in Moscow. If anything, she has something to prove now so I look to her to come out with all guns firing! The problem is that she has stronger competition, in general, this year. Besides, she's skating in Irina & Elena's home ice. Any color of medal would be a blessing for Sasha, IMO.

[duane]

But her inconsistency could play to her advantage - everyone is expecting her to mess up, so the pressure is off, right?

But Schmeck, everyone has been expecting Sasha to mess up for years now, and unfortunately, she keeps proving us right!

Once again, I hope Sasha--IMO, one of the most talented, graceful skaters ever to take the ice--is able to maintain focus and deliver the goods...but I'll admit that I'm not holding my breath.

[elanboy]

IMO Cohen and Hughes is not a good comparison. Cohen has too much talent and status to be considered an underdog. However, if she keeps performing the way that she has, she will be consider to be an underachiever.

I agree here, a more suitable comparison would be to say that Sasha is the "Emmanuel Sandhu" of US Ladies figure skating...loads of talent and potential, but unfortunately, lack of consistency when it counts to make it to the very top (ie, at Worlds, or Olympics)

[Japanfan]

It's not a fair comparison between Sasha and Sandhu. Sasha may routinely make mistakes, but rarely more than two. In fact, two is her average number.

But, she is the current World Silver Medalist. I'm certainly not counting her out, just not counting her as a lock for Gold or even a medal.

I would be surprised though, if she placed any less than fourth.

[Oracle]

Sasha with 1 or 2 mistakes can still win out over 97% of the women who will be competing at worlds. I wish someone would list the names of just 6 current competitors of hers who have been able to skate both their SP's & FP's cleanly, this year, with NO mistakes. (Please no names of girls with simple programs or with no style.)

[Buzzing84]

Sasha with 1 or 2 mistakes can still win out over 97% of the women who will be competing at worlds. I wish someone would list the names of just 6 current competitors of hers who have been able to skate both their SP's & FP's cleanly, this year, with NO mistakes. (Please no names of girls with simple programs or with no style.)

Obviously she can't. There aren't even 100 competitors at Worlds, but she's finished 4th twice in the past. I think 97% is a bit of a stretch. Besides that I've often thought while watching the competitions where Sasha blows it (2003 Worlds in particular), "She's still way better than Fumie or Elena, so she'll probably medal." It just doesn't happen.

I also posted in another completely unrelated thread a comment about Sasha's competitive history. I watched a video of her first ever appearance at Senior Nationals, and after falling on the final triple toe in her program, Dick Button made some statement regarding her ability to not be able to keep herself mentally together through a whole program. You can go even further back than that, and see that Sasha has always been somewhat inconsistent.

[danibellerika]

What reason has Sasha given this whole season to count her in as a favorite for anything? While she will always be my fave ladies skater, she cannot afford these mistakes, especially on the world scene. It'd be a maricle if she showed up at worlds with a bulked up programs that she skates cleanly and with attack. The only difference I think with Sasha and Eman is that Eman, when he messes up, it's like a total meltdown and he drops pretty low because of it. With Sasha, it's usually her mistakes that keep her from a win, but she still medals or is top 4. The only favorite I see this year is Ira, and personally, I hope she gets it. What an inspiring comeback that'd be.

[7302005]

Sasha usually counts herself out - I am not sure what the issue is, lack of confidence (although I doubt this is the issue), nerves or other things.

I agree she has talent, but she also needs to do something with it.

[fadedstardust]

I've got a better question for you prunes- WHY DO YOU CARE IF EVERYONE COUNTS HER OUT? Why would it bother you if everyone on this board thought Sasha was the absolute worst skater in the world and thought she'd never even podium again? What is it to you, and why must you always bring it up? It's so grating. Everytime I see a "SASHA FOR GOLD!" post, it's from you. You periodically post the exact same post, about every two weeks or so I'd say, and then everyone tells you why they count her out, and then you argue, and then you let it go, and then you bring it up again even though you have no new information which could change the argument. Just let her skate, and let people watch, and leave it aloneeeeeeeeee already. If you think she'll win, great. We don't. Why does it matter to you? Good lord.

[elanboy]

I've got a better question for you prunes- WHY DO YOU CARE IF EVERYONE COUNTS HER OUT? Why would it bother you if everyone on this board thought Sasha was the absolute worst skater in the world and thought she'd never even podium again? What is it to you, and why must you always bring it up? It's so grating. Everytime I see a "SASHA FOR GOLD!" post, it's from you. You periodically post the exact same post, about every two weeks or so I'd say, and then everyone tells you why they count her out, and then you argue, and then you let it go, and then you bring it up again even though you have no new information which could change the argument. Just let her skate, and let people watch, and leave it aloneeeeeeeeee already. If you think she'll win, great. We don't. Why does it matter to you? Good lord.

LOL@fadedstardust - you seem a little exasperated... ;)

[prunes89]

Fadedstardust,
Are you having a breakdown over my post? If you don't like what I have to say, then skip my posts. It's simple. I don't post to please you. I am here to cheer for Sasha and remind the world that she's the best. I don't care how that makes you feel. Maybe you're just jealous of Sasha because she has real fans or something. I dunno. Why do you have to be a Debbie Downer?

[Schmeck]

I wouldn't call Sasha the best yet, because she hasn't won one single important title. That's why so many people here are a bit exasperated by the juvenile claims that she is. Titles need to be won in order to be considered the best, don't you think?

[Sk8n Mama]

Sasha with 1 or 2 mistakes can still win out over 97% of the women who will be competing at worlds

Let's not get delusional in our fanatacism.

Really, I think the pressure is on more than ever for her. Because she's been labelled one who can't do it when it counts, every time she skates the pressure is there to prove everyone wrong. Besides, every skater out there has pressure at the Worlds preceeding the Olympics because they need to make enough of an impression on the judges to be considered a favourite for that top 6 group in Torino.

[loveskating]

Let's not get delusional in our fanatacism.

Really, I think the pressure is on more than ever for her. Because she's been labelled one who can't do it when it counts, every time she skates the pressure is there to prove everyone wrong. Besides, every skater out there has pressure at the Worlds preceeding the Olympics because they need to make enough of an impression on the judges to be considered a favourite for that top 6 group in Torino.

Yes, I wouldn't be surprised if that is Sasha's view...but it is not the view of the international judges (not including the highly politicized USFSA judges.) By the rules, one only has to skate best, not perfectly, to win gold or anything else, and most gold does not crown a perfect skate, much less back to back skates..

This "perfection" criteria is a set up by fans of other skaters...in short, it is a grotesque, obvious lie.

However, after being injured most of the season, it is silly to think that Sasha is in a good position to win...she might, she can at any time, but she has had a very rough year.

[fadedstardust]

LOL@fadedstardust - you seem a little exasperated... ;)

Elanboy- Just slightly :P I have a new conspiracy theory that Prunes is IN FACT Sasha Cohen herself. No one else would be that deluded. Although I of course think Sasha's one of the best in the world. She's just not the best. And even if she were I don't see why we'd need to be constantly reminded.

Meanwhile, prunes- I'd rather have no fans at all than fans who are so deluded about my abilities that they constantly build me up only to be let down by me if I don't perform perfectly. I want people to appreciate my skating even if I falter, not just to prove to them and the whole world that I'm the best. That wouldn't be the kinds of fans I want, so I'm certainly not jealous of your devotion to her. She can keep it. :)

[Lark]

I personally agree with whomever compared Sasha to Sandhu.

If both could consistantly put clean SP's with LP's, both would, IMO, be National, World AND Olympic champions.

I like Sasha because I feel she is gutsy, and I admire that.

[likes2skate]

Yes, I wouldn't be surprised if that is Sasha's view...but it is not the view of the international judges (not including the highly politicized USFSA judges.) By the rules, one only has to skate best, not perfectly, to win gold or anything else, and most gold does not crown a perfect skate, much less back to back skates..

This "perfection" criteria is a set up by fans of other skaters...in short, it is a grotesque, obvious lie.

However, after being injured most of the season, it is silly to think that Sasha is in a good position to win...she might, she can at any time, but she has had a very rough year.


If you look at the World Championships since 2000, all have been won with clean skates and 3/3's, except for 2003. So yeah, you do not have to skate perfectly but looking at the last 5 world champions, it seems more necessary than not.

I also do not think the "perfection criteria" is set up by fans of other skaters. Sasha is a self admitted perfectionist so ultimately it is she who puts the pressure on herself.

Third... yeah Sasha is injured but her season thusfar is not that different from seasons in the past.

This brings me to my answer of the post in question...people (not me) are counting Sasha out because she has proven in the last 5 years she cannot shake her nerves and skate clean in a big competition. It has nothing to do with Sasha personally, just looking at her track record.

Do I think it is stupid to count her out? I sure do. While I think the opinions are warrented and can be easily backed up, I also think they are wishful thinking. We should not count out someone who, only due to herself , is not a National or World Champion. I will root for Michelle to win until the day she retires, but Sasha Cohen is the most talented skater today and one day she will skate like it and we will not have seen anything so great since 1998 US Nationals.

[prunes89]

If you look at the World Championships since 2000, all have been won with clean skates and 3/3's, except for 2003. So yeah, you do not have to skate perfectly but looking at the last 5 world champions, it seems more necessary than not.

.

Wrong! Irina Slutskaya did not land, or attempt, at 3/3 when she won Worlds 2002. Actually, I think the only skater to do a 3/3 at that comp. was Michelle Kwan in the QR. Irina was the first lady, in a few years, to win Worlds WITHOUT attempting a 3/3.
-1997 Lipinski 3/3
-1998 Kwan don't know about 3/3
-1999 Maria.
2000- Kwan with 3/3
2001 Kwan with a 3/3
2002 Irina WITHOUT a 3/3
2003 Kwan WITHOUT a 3/3
2004 Shizuka TWO 3/3's.

[flyingonglass]

Elanboy- Just slightly :P I have a new conspiracy theory that Prunes is IN FACT Sasha Cohen herself.

:lol: You got that right!

[FSWer]

PLEASE......let's all STOP BASHING Sasha!!!!!!

[Sk8n Mama]

PLEASE......let's all STOP BASHING Sasha!!!!!!

I don't think anyone is bashing her. There's a difference in discussing a skater's strengths and weaknesses and bashing someone.

[7302005]

and the question originally posted was "why is everyone counting Sasha out?'....if you don't want to know the answers, then don't ask.

[fadedstardust]

PLEASE......let's all STOP BASHING Sasha!!!!!!


I'm not bashing Sasha, I'm bashing Prunes. Although according to my theory, that would be the same thing. Hmmmmmmm does FSWer know something we don't? Heh heh.

[prunes89]

I'm not bashing Sasha, I'm bashing Prunes..

I thought bashing of other posters was against forum rules? So, you're basically admitting that you're following my posts to bash me? You need a life, buddy.

[flippet]

Okie doke...closing thread. I think it's run its course.



as an aside...mentioning the word 'bash' does not necessarily a bash make. I'm just saying.

~flippet-the-mod