New Washington Post article on Michelle

[Vicki]

Intersting article on Michelle's preparations for COP at Worlds.
December 28 2004 Washington Post article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A29947-2004Dec27.html)

[what?meworry?]

i was just about to start the same thread, but from the perspective of this note on skatefans@yahoo:
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/SkateFans/message/140398
the psychology of this sport and how individuals manage the pressure is fascinating.
here is a skater who, everytime i've seen her at nat'ls, exudes confidence and truely lives in the moment of the "skate."
yet seemingly, from the top looking at cop is somewhat intimidating! fear of the unknown! she's certainly sharp enough to understand it, but may need to understand to the point of being able to control it, to feel comfortable.
i'd suspect that for those looking up to the top, the risk of jumping into the "unknown" may be scary but worth the risk.
cop may help those who can push to "skate on the edge" of their abilities but hurt those who need to feel totally prepared and in control (skaters and coaches alike).
very interesting.

[Tapper]

Great article. It's an interesting insight into the continuing development of the skater.

[nyskatefan]

Thanks Vicki ... fantastic article!

This brings home to me everything I love and respect about Michelle. She makes it so clear ... sacrificing her body will not be an option, even for Olympic gold. I love that she is honest about her reluctance for COP.
I always want her to win, but I know that she will do all that she is capable of ... and if that is not enough, than so be it.

Good luck Michelle ... you're such a class act!

[PaulWyliefan]

Well, it sounds like she's doing her best to rise to the challenge. Good for her. I think something like this is just what she needed to revitalize her skating -- and I also think that COP tends to make programs more artistic, not less so!

[IceAngel725]

Great article. I can't wait to see her programs this year. I think it would be very interesting! thanks for posting.

[Mariadonna]

She sounded a little worried about the CoP to me.

[Tapper]

I didn't get the impression she was "worried"... I think she indicats in the article that she sees the issues it presents to her and that she is doing what she can to meet the requirements in the best way she can. But "worry" in non-productive, and it doesn't sound to me like she's wasting her time by worrying. My take on it is that she shows concern, and that's good!

As always, she'll do the best she can and let the chips fall where they may.

[Artemis]

I'm extremely glad that she's obviously taking the CoP seriously. Previous press had given the indication that she was taking a "whatever" attitude. Glad to see that's not the case.

Worlds will be veeerrry interesting!

[Tessie]

I don't think MK ever took the "what ever" approach or attitude about the CoP system. If she did she would have taken the approach of competing in the grand prix events and presenting a program that may not be complete only to see what may "stick" with the judges and does not.

She knows that it will require change and that change needs to be thought through.

She is smart to honor her body and not risk it in events that don't mean much in the overall pricture. (IMHO)

[Schmeck]

From this article, it sounds like she's taking CoP very, very seriously. It mentioned that she's had her programs analyzed by judges, including the Russian judge Lakernik. She admits to two weak parts she is working on - spins and transitions. Sounds like a plan to me...

[Mariadonna]

She will have to come up with something. The other women have their jumps and they do count for CoP. Sasha has her spins and laybacks, Miki may even do a fully rotated quad. Slute is having a banner year and home ice advantage, If Asada were older she would come with a 3/axel. Presentation and edging are great but she needs more for level 3's.

[nyskatefan]

While I heartily agree that Michelle has to work on spins and transitions, I actually feel more encouraged after this season at her chances than I did before it started.
The only skater to skate consistently well all season is Irina. She has been outstanding and clearly has proven she is the one to beat at Worlds.
Shizuka has had a disappointing season ... obviously Sasha's is in question as well. Miki has skated well, but it seems COP doesn't consider her 3/3's worthy of high marks most of the time. The quad seems to be gone for the time being.
All in all, after Irina, everything else seems to be up for grabs.

[Schmeck]

She will have to come up with something. The other women have their jumps and they do count for CoP. Sasha has her spins and laybacks, Miki may even do a fully rotated quad. Slute is having a banner year and home ice advantage, If Asada were older she would come with a 3/axel. Presentation and edging are great but she needs more for level 3's.

Actually, presentation and edging will get you the + points needed, while sloppy jumps will land you in the -. Michelle does have the jumps, and she is working on the spins and transitions. Right now Sasha is having a tricky time it seems, (where did her jumps go at the cheesefest?) and Ando might get some points for a quad, but what else?

Luckily, Irina and Michelle have beeing competing against each other for years. They know what they can do, what the other does, etc. The judges have seen them, scored them at the same competitions as well. CoP makes it interesting, but it's not going to be an upset whoever is above the other, Irina or Michelle.

[Mariadonna]

:?: What level can Kwan skate at under CoP? What level are the other's elements?

[Schmeck]

What level can Kwan skate at under CoP?

I think she'll be up there with the other top skaters. It would be absurd to think that she wouldn't be, especially since the article mentions that she's talked to many skating judges, and had them critique her skating. She has excellent basic skating skills, the kind most skaters try for but never quite get there. She's gotten there. All she has to do is 'connect the dots', as she says in the article.

What level are the other's elements?

Well, one could check out Irina's, etc, results on the ISU website. One could also get a good idea of how Cohen would do from her past results.

[loveskating]

Well, pushing the envelope means high risk by definition...so it is no surprise to me that Arkakawa and others are having an inconsistent year. They are pushing their bodies to the very edge of what can be endured.

But the reason they have a high risk program in the first place is so that it will be ready when needed.

So what I mean is....Arakawa, Ando, Sebastyn, Sasha, Irina, even Rochette (she is a very solid skater with high quality to all her elements), Sokolova...how likely is it that all of them will make serious mistakes?

[loveskating]

I don't think MK ever took the "what ever" approach or attitude about the CoP system. If she did she would have taken the approach of competing in the grand prix events and presenting a program that may not be complete only to see what may "stick" with the judges and does not.

She knows that it will require change and that change needs to be thought through.

She is smart to honor her body and not risk it in events that don't mean much in the overall pricture. (IMHO)

Well, win or lose, it would be absurd to claim that any competition means anything to Kwan at this point "in the overall picture". She is well defined, and no additional medals or losses are going to change anything for her at all.

She is smart enough to know that...so she must have some other reason for continuing while "honoring her body" as she watches everyone else tearing theirs up all season long keeping skating alive so she can waltz in and take the biggest prize! Clearly, if everyone behaved exactly as she did, there would only be some event like Campbells, then nationals (and no one would see any other nationals but their own) and worlds! Two televised events a year could HARDLY be considered good for skating!

Or is the risk to Irina's or Arakawa's or Sebastyn's or anyone else's body any greater than it is to Kwan's?

[shadymc]

mmmmm, I think Michelle has not come out and stated, but has hinted, that she has some back and hip problems and this has been an issue since '02 when she stopped attempting 3/3's with loops on the end. I think it is obvious to read between the lines that there is a problem that she can't take the demands of skating a full season, but wants to participate anyway. I have asked this question over and over....why is it considered perfectly natural for older athletes in other sports to curb their participation as they get older and not figure skaters? This is a question for her to answer alone. Other skaters have nothing to do with it. Everyone's body is different. IS, ES, etc appear stronger and have more body mass than Michelle and it seems it's the smaller skaters who get the most wear and tear injuries (NNN, TL, DS). To each his own. The other girls have the option not to compete so much as well. It's a decision they all have to make for themselves.

I think it's interesting how all the people who are most complaining about Michelle not participating in GP are the same ones who are always complaining that she is boring and they don't want to watch her anyway.

[kisscid]

I watched the repeat of grand Prix finals over the weekend and the commentators said that miki Ando will not be doing the quad this year that she has stopped doing it to focus on her spins and connecting elements (Which currently only rate a 1 - according to the commentators). I don't think she's much of a threat at this worlds comp. But in the future when it all comes together for her- watch out!
Irina looked good. A little sloppy in places but over all she's coming on very strong. I think if either Sasha or Michelle is "on" they stand a chance of beating her.
Rochette is really looking good too. I could see her being a surprise on the poodium at Worlds. I was really impressed with her skating.
Cid'

[Samskate]

shadymc, VERY good points! I really appreciate your comments. They saved me from saying the same thing but it probably wouldn't have come out quite as nice! LOL!

[loveskating]

I think it's interesting how all the people who are most complaining about Michelle not participating in GP are the same ones who are always complaining that she is boring and they don't want to watch her anyway.

Yes, well, that is not exactly my complaint -- my problem with Michelle is that she is in fact no longer Michelle Kwan!

[likes2skate]

Yes, well, that is not exactly my complaint -- my problem with Michelle is that she is in fact no longer Michelle Kwan!

I am not sure what this means?? Michelle is still Michelle Kwan even though she is not skating in every competition, or doing programs such as TRV or Lyra. Even though Tosca was not a difficult program, it sure was a "Michelle Kwan" type of skate at 2004 Nationals.

To give another example...Tara is still Tara Lipinski the OGM even though she can really not skate anymore. Some of her fans would probably be happy to just see her skate and do double jumps.

Maybe I am not sure what you mean? :?:

[magicladi]

Yes, well, that is not exactly my complaint -- my problem with Michelle is that she is in fact no longer Michelle Kwan!

You know what, loveskating, there's more to Michelle Kwan than JUST being a figure skater, competing in every competition and hurting her body. I mean, there IS Michelle Kwan the human being. Just like there's Irina Slutskaya the human being. Sasha Cohen the human being. I realize that Kwan has done some wrong to you because of the "bumping" incident that she AND Sasha both have called an accident. Maybe it's time to follow that old adage "Forgive and forget". Goodness knows, Kwan can do NO right in your eyes. I'm sure she frets about it.

If I had my druthers, the GP Series would only be for those who haven't had the international exposure that the elite skaters have had. In other words, why shouldn't ANY of these skaters, men or women, have that choice? They've certainly earned the right to make their own decisions without being castigated for not doing something.

I seriously doubt Kwan just waltzes in and wins. She trains hard. She works hard. And no matter what you think, she has left her mark on figure skating. It's also funny to me that you hold one "accidental bumping" against Kwan when it was Sasha who ran into her. Whatever! Kwan isn't some diva. Maybe you'll get to meet her and spend some time with her. You might be surprised. She's a really down-to-earth, funny and generous person.

Oh well, to each their own. You've made your mind up. I can see that. I've seen that for two years now. It's too bad you judge someone by one incident as opposed to an overall career.

[sugar4]

Yes, well, that is not exactly my complaint -- my problem with Michelle is that she is in fact no longer Michelle Kwan!

If she's not Michelle Kwan than who is she? Oh, Oh I know, she's Michelle W. Kwan! Pat myself on the back, cause I'm in the know!

sugar

[Rapt2Go]

She is smart enough to know that...so she must have some other reason for continuing while "honoring her body" as she watches everyone else tearing theirs up all season long keeping skating alive so she can waltz in and take the biggest prize! Clearly, if everyone behaved exactly as she did, there would only be some event like Campbells, then nationals (and no one would see any other nationals but their own) and worlds! Two televised events a year could HARDLY be considered good for skating!

Or is the risk to Irina's or Arakawa's or Sebastyn's or anyone else's body any greater than it is to Kwan's?

Not sure I follow... Are you suggesting that MK push her body to the point of no return a la Tara because other have chosen to? I keep in the back of my mind that we may not know for years what damage is being done to those you seem to honor for "pushing the envelope". I tend to think its not unlikely that we may see some of today's skaters that have hyper flexible backs, Beilemann spins, etc, with arthritic backs in a few years. And we'll definitely see more debilitating hip injuries from all those "pushing the envelope" with those 3/3's. Do you seriously think its good for skating if the skaters brutalize their bodies for the sake of the envelope? Or did I misunderstand you?

Sorry for the typos..

[loveskating]

Well, accuse me if you like, but I'm making a serious point here, not bashing anyone.

I watched Pavarotti in a similar situation...I was one of those fans who said that even in his decline, he was better than most tenors on the stage, which was absolutely true.

What I didn't understand is that when you are a Pavarotti, its not ENOUGH to be as good as the current field...he was just no longer PAVAROTTI, he just could not any longer sing like the Pavarotti we had known for over 20 years, he could not reach the standard he himself had set!

Its a huge risk to stay too long at the party, if Pav is any example, because as he weakened, his enemies came out in droves to attack him (and slander him). Now, I feel that those who wanted him to retire earlier were better freinds of his than I was, and ergo, it follows that it could be that I care more about Michelle, the human being, than you all do!

P.S. Of course I don't want her to hurt her body, but I don't want the other skaters to have to do so either...only a group approach will solve the problem of the grueling schedule.

[Rapt2Go]

Its a huge risk to stay too long at the party, if Pav is any example, because as he weakened, his enemies came out in droves to attack him (and slander him). Now, I feel that those who wanted him to retire earlier were better freinds of his than I was, and ergo, it follows that it could be that I care more about Michelle, the human being, than you all do!

I understand your point, I think. But what enemies do you feel will or have come out to attack Michelle? Anti-Michelle fans on posting boards? Christine Brennan? Phil Hersch? I mean, how can they really hurt her, or skating for that matter? Say bad things about her? People will say bad things about her whether she stays or goes. I think she's used to that by now.

P.S. Of course I don't want her to hurt her body, but I don't want the other skaters to have to do so either...only a group approach will solve the problem of the grueling schedule.

Thanks for clarifying what you meant. I don't want *any* of them to hurt themselves either which is why I am also concerned about how the CoP may impact their bodies and why I feel so passionately about skaters being forced to participate in events in order to make Worlds.

[hiliairyh]

Here we go with Pavarotti and opera again. The option of not participating in as many comps is available to every skater.

BTW, this is a skating board, so criticism of any skater's skating is fair. Wrapping hidden hints in tearing down a skater in the disguise of "caring" for the skater as a person is really getting old

[magicladi]

Well, accuse me if you like, but I'm making a serious point here, not bashing anyone.

I watched Pavarotti in a similar situation...I was one of those fans who said that even in his decline, he was better than most tenors on the stage, which was absolutely true.

What I didn't understand is that when you are a Pavarotti, its not ENOUGH to be as good as the current field...he was just no longer PAVAROTTI, he just could not any longer sing like the Pavarotti we had known for over 20 years, he could not reach the standard he himself had set!

Its a huge risk to stay too long at the party, if Pav is any example, because as he weakened, his enemies came out in droves to attack him (and slander him). Now, I feel that those who wanted him to retire earlier were better freinds of his than I was, and ergo, it follows that it could be that I care more about Michelle, the human being, than you all do!

P.S. Of course I don't want her to hurt her body, but I don't want the other skaters to have to do so either...only a group approach will solve the problem of the grueling schedule.

I almost understand what you are trying to get across. But when you make comments that "Michelle Kwan is no longer Michelle Kwan", that's kinda sad. See, Kwan is more than just a skater. And of course she isn't the Kwan she was. She's matured, grown up. Her skating is improving even though but you don't seem to want to see that.

See, I don't understand people who complain like this. First it was that she was too slow. So she sacrifices certain aspects of her skating to gain speed. Then under Nichols her programs were boring and same-ole, same-ole, so she gets different programs and the deriders are not happy. She does what is best for HER. Not you. Not me. (BTW, Pavarotti had nodules on his throat caused by an illness. That's the main reason his voice started to go.)

Here's what I will say because I happen to like watching figure skating as a whole and not just because of one certain skater. If Kwan isn't Kwan anymore (as you imagine she should be even as she grows older), then Cohen has never become the Cohen she has been played up to be. IMO, neither of these young women deserve anything but the respect they should have for the hard work and the wonderful skates we have seen from them.

I just want to know, loveskating, if you've ever met Kwan, talked to her, anything like that. You don't like her and I can respect that. However I don't think you'll have her to kick around in the next couple of years. I think she will retire whether it's after this Worlds or after the '06 Olys. Then what skater will you have to pick on when Kwan is gone from competitive skating?

P.S. I don't think you want to see any skater injure their body. I've never thought that just to let you know. :D