Sasha has returned to John Nicks [Archive]

Debbie S

12-21-2004, 09:29 PM

I guess I'm not too shocked that Sasha changed coaches, or that she's returning to CA, but I never thought she would go back to Nicks. From the wording of her announcement, it sounds like this is temporary and that after Nats, she'll get a new coach.

Now that Robin's available, Sarah might just end up going back to her, although from what has been written and said about their parting, it sounds like they cut ties for good, although Sasha has now proved that you can go home again.

prunes89

12-21-2004, 10:10 PM

I dont' know what to say! I want the best for Sasha and I know she is doing what is best for herself. John Nicks was always my favorite coach of hers and I know he'll bring back her fire and determination. She always wenf for the harder elements with Nicks and I think we'll see this from Sasha again.
I think we'll see 3/3's and a quad in the near future. Thank God for Mr. Nicks. :bow:

expo86

12-22-2004, 12:04 AM

The link above points to the Dec. 12 journal entry. I don't see any mention of John Nicks there. Robin Wagner is still shown as Sasha's coach when you click on the left side of the page.

Am I not looking in the right place? :?:

danibellerika

12-22-2004, 12:08 AM

It was up, but was removed.

expo86

12-22-2004, 12:10 AM

OK. Thanks for the quick response! :)

Schmeck

12-22-2004, 04:58 AM

So, is it real news, or did someone hack onto her website?

SkateFan123

12-22-2004, 05:22 AM

So, is it real news, or did someone hack onto her website?
Interesting, I heard this rumor about a week ago. Then a friend sent me the link last night. I saw the entry. Now it's gone. Could be a hacker, could be a premature announcement. Time will tell.

If this is true, the journal entry said that she'd be with Nicks through Portland. No indication of if the return to him is long term or just a solution until she finds another coach.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see what the truth is about the journal entry. My guess, and only a guess, is that the announcement was premature and that an official one will come via the USFS later today.

shadymc

12-22-2004, 11:06 AM

The news is up on the USFSA site. It is official. But it's also clear that this is just temporary. It was said "only through nationals" over and over again. Clearly, there will be another change. Anyone know who the best coaches available in CA are now? My guess is Frank CArroll.

loveskating

12-22-2004, 12:42 PM

Well, as long as she settles on something for the longterm pretty soon and sticks with it through the Olympics I suppose it isn't too problematic. She really needs to cut down on the distractions and focus on getting everything in line.

Its true...ergo, my expectations are not all that high this round.

Sasha has had such a tough time, its just absurd...I want it to stop!

Schmeck

12-22-2004, 01:53 PM

Who knows, perhaps with expectations down now because of all of this, the pressure will be off of Sasha, and she'll actually get those back-to-back incredible performances that she's capable of delivering. Nationals just got a whole lot more interesting!

Debbie S

12-22-2004, 01:59 PM

Sasha has had such a tough time, its just absurd...I want it to stop!

Don't get too worked up about this. After all, it's pretty much Sasha's own doing. Hopefully, for her sake, she'll stay with whatever coach she ends up with after Nats at least through the Olys.

As long as Frank Carroll is still working with Jenny Kirk, I don't think he'll take on Sasha. I suppose he could fire Jenny, but he's only been working with her since last summer and I don't think would Frank would fire a student just to work with someone else. His firing of Tim Goebel appears to be a result of some long-standing issues between the two. It's possible Sasha could work with his partner, Ken Congemi, and Frank could consult on her coaching, like he did with Ye Bin Mok while he coached Angela N (is he still working with Ye Bin, by the way?), but I would think Sasha and her family would want her to be with a big-name coach and not his assistant.

danibellerika

12-22-2004, 02:04 PM

Mel On Ice

12-22-2004, 02:11 PM

I hope she doesn't turn into another Nicole Bobek. She really seems to be jumping coaches a lot the last few years.

WeBeEducated

12-22-2004, 03:45 PM

Don't get too worked up about this. After all, it's pretty much Sasha's own doing. Hopefully, for her sake, she'll stay with whatever coach she ends up with after Nats at least through the Olys.

As long as Frank Carroll is still working with Jenny Kirk, I don't think he'll take on Sasha. I suppose he could fire Jenny, but he's only been working with her since last summer and I don't think would Frank would fire a student just to work with someone else. His firing of Tim Goebel appears to be a result of some long-standing issues between the two. It's possible Sasha could work with his partner, Ken Congemi, and Frank could consult on her coaching, like he did with Ye Bin Mok while he coached Angela N (is he still working with Ye Bin, by the way?), but I would think Sasha and her family would want her to be with a big-name coach and not his assistant.

Didn't Frank work for Tim? How could the employee fire the boss?

likes2skate

12-22-2004, 05:08 PM

I am glad she left Robin. I don't know why, but Robin annoys me for some reason.

Sylvia

12-22-2004, 05:14 PM

Didn't Frank work for Tim? How could the employee fire the boss?

It was Tim who used the verb "fired" in the 12/15/04 Washington Post article.

Debbie S, Frank Carroll will be coaching or co-coaching Jenny Kirk, Yebin Mok, Danielle Kahle, Evan Lysacek and Mauro Bruni (and maybe Danny Steffel? not sure) at 2005 Nationals.

hiliairyh

12-22-2004, 06:26 PM

Its true...ergo, my expectations are not all that high this round.

IMHO fans should not have high expectations, it is all in the hands of the skating gods

Sasha has had such a tough time, its just absurd...

Now where on earth did you get the idea that she has a tough time. She is young and flexible, I mean flexibility with changes.

I want it to stop!

I think that is an absurd statement. Sounds kind of personal too. You are only her fan not her family :roll:

Debbie S

12-22-2004, 10:18 PM

Debbie S, Frank Carroll will be coaching or co-coaching Jenny Kirk, Yebin Mok, Danielle Kahle, Evan Lysacek and Mauro Bruni (and maybe Danny Steffel? not sure) at 2005 Nationals.

Thanks, Sylvia. I wasn't sure if Yebin was going to be at Nats (didn't I hear that she was injured?) but I'm glad that she'll be competing. I like her skating - hopefully, they'll show her on TV.

Just to clarify for those who asked, I was referring to that article in the Post where Tim said Frank "fired" him, that is, telling him that he no longer wanted to coach him. I suppose it would be the same as someone telling their boss they no longer wanted to work at Company X. Quitting, fired - it essentially gets the same result.

I don't think Frank would do that to Jenny after only working with her for 6 months, just to coach Sasha. Now, if Jenny were to leave Frank by her own decision, then Sasha might sieze the opportunity, but I'm hoping Jenny will stay with Frank through next season, as I think he can give her the best shot at making the Oly team.

fadedstardust

12-23-2004, 04:08 AM

Are there any actual reasons people want Sasha to go to Frank, or is it just kind of by default? Those two personalities would never mesh, plus Frank isn't what he used to be, I think the only great potential he has in his reigns right now is Evan, and he's coached more and more by Ken, who by the way is amazing. Frank/Sasha wouldn't work, they both want to run the show and only one person can, as was exhibited by Sasha/Tatiana not working out, no matter how well the two techniques should have worked together.

Let Sasha pick, who cares? It's her call. I hope she decideds to stay with Nicks, but whatever she wants to do, is what she feels will be best.

Tessie

12-23-2004, 07:35 AM

So, is it real news, or did someone hack onto her website?

It's in the Boston Globe's sports section this morning. For you Bostonians its on the second page of that section under "Miscellany". I'm not sure if you can see on the web site, but here's a try

www.boston.com

loveskating

12-23-2004, 07:54 AM

"IMHO fans should not have high expectations, it is all in the hands of the skating gods."

Ultimately, absolutely true. Considering Kulik's season in 1998, which included 6 weeks off the ice with a serious foot injury, I did not expect him to do well at the 98 Olympics! That joke was on me and I loved it.

But I do think Sasha has had a rough, bumpy ride, including the serious back injuries, and I do wish it would stop.

Meredith

12-23-2004, 08:39 AM

Considering Kulik's season in 1998, which included 6 weeks off the ice with a serious foot injury, I did not expect him to do well at the 98 Olympics! That joke was on me and I loved it.
Oh ye of little faith. ;) His programs for the season rocked and his performance at the GPF told me that, "YES!!!! He can go all the way!"

LittleBitSk8er

12-23-2004, 11:33 PM

I hope she stays with Nicks.................
It would be nice to see him take her to the Oly's!!!
8-) ..........;) but it's not what I want it is uo to Sasha.
What ever she feels best with, works for me!!:D

loveskating

12-26-2004, 10:39 AM

Oh ye of little faith. ;) His programs for the season rocked and his performance at the GPF told me that, "YES!!!! He can go all the way!"

So true! I have little faith! I agree, his programs were absolutely the best...and he sure had that fire in his eye...but if you recall, he then had a back injury after GPF, and it was almost a miracle he was able to skate at all (after the Olympics, I was told he could not do a 3 axel/3 toe loop without great pain and risk) so you are right, one never can tell!

I was glad he won...I wasn't bananas about him at the time, but I did honestly belive he was the best, and its nice when the best skater wins. (I went Kulik bananas after I saw him skate live...it appeared his 3 axel was half the length of the rink and he was down it in 3 strokes, LOL! What a magnificant skater!)

prunes89

12-26-2004, 04:30 PM

DancinDiva

12-26-2004, 05:52 PM

Is it true that Robin W. went on record and said Sasha's training habits are inconsistent? Is it true she implied Sasha is lazy and unmotivated? :evil:
I don't believe that for a cotton picking second!

I would believe it. Sasha seems to be very motivated only by the notion of winning major titles, and so when she is not winning she may become discouraged and lose some motivation. As for her training being inconsistant, well I'd have to agree that with all her travel and her other "problems" she's had this season, I'm sure her training has been very inconsistant.

danibellerika

12-26-2004, 06:09 PM

And of course, Diva has all the answers. I think pretty much ALL skaters are motivated by the big titles, not just Sasha. :roll:

Is it true that Robin W. went on record and said Sasha's training habits are inconsistent? Is it true she implied Sasha is lazy and unmotivated? :evil:
I don't believe that for a cotton picking second!

She says that they were inconsistent but she didn't imply that Sasha was lazy and unmotivated. It seemed to me that she implied that when you aren't happy in your surroundings, things will suffer. If Sasha were unmotivated, I don't know if she would have even bothered returning to Nicks or doing that dartfish thing or whatever she was doing in VA.

Schmeck

12-26-2004, 06:16 PM

Completely OT, but prunes89, do you understand the rascist meaning of 'cotton picking' - it's a racial slur.

I think Sasha is looking for that 'magic potion' that has eluded her, except when she was with Tarasova. Lots of skaters have gone through this phase in their skating, and Sasha won't be the last one to go on this elusive hunt.

Alaska

12-26-2004, 06:41 PM

I think Sasha is going to be a more confident & happy skater now that she is back home. She has had back problems this year and lost valuable practice time so give the girl a break. If Sasha wasn't such a beautiful skater there wouldn't be so many people saying yucky stuff about her because she wouldn't be a threat to their favorite skater IMHO.
I wish all the skaters there best at Nationals especially Sasha.
Peggy

crazysk8er

12-26-2004, 07:52 PM

And of course, Diva has all the answers. I think pretty much ALL skaters are motivated by the big titles, not just Sasha. :roll:

She says that they were inconsistent but she didn't imply that Sasha was lazy and unmotivated. It seemed to me that she implied that when you aren't happy in your surroundings, things will suffer. If Sasha were unmotivated, I don't know if she would have even bothered returning to Nicks or doing that dartfish thing or whatever she was doing in VA.

Diva never agreed with the part about Sasha being unmotivated, nor did she imply that Sasha was the only skater motivated by winning big titles. The topic is about Sasha, so only Sasha was mentioned. Of course most skaters are motivated by winning. Why wouldn't they be? Diva only pointed out that with the events that Sasha experienced this past year would have led to inconsistant training.

danibellerika

12-27-2004, 05:11 AM

I believe that when you quote someone and say that "I believe it," it means just that. Then she says that ONLY titles motivate Sasha. As I said, who are we to know that that is the ONLY thing motivating her and nothing else? Every skater out there is motivated by something more than just titles. They are out there because they have got to love what they do to some extent if they are going to be at this kind of an elite level.

All I know is that a lot is going on. A lot more than we may ever know so we can't just say that Sasha losing the major titles all the time discourages her so she doesn't practice well. There were no major competitions for her to lose between the summer and now (she skated really well and looked very happy at COI which was after the last major championship was held) so that doesn't make any sense.

PaulWyliefan

12-27-2004, 09:51 AM

Completely OT, but prunes89, do you understand the rascist meaning of 'cotton picking' - it's a racial slur.

I've heard that expression all my life, and I've never heard anyone use it in a racist manner.

blades

12-27-2004, 10:51 AM

8-)

knee jerk political correctness strikes again...

the "politically correct" are defined as the "humor impaired"...

reminds me of the time some bozo tried to get the mascot of my daughter's school changed from the "braves" to the "brave bears"...seems that they thought "braves" was a slam to indians (erp!...i mean "native americans" of course!)...funny thing was that the indian school a mile away (yes...in seattle there is an indian school, established to unite and continue the heritage)...had absolutely no objection to the mascot...

as for sasha...y'all can guesstimate the effect of returning to nicks till the cows come in...or, at least till nationals...

i'm personally not very fond of nicks (every bit as arrogant today as he was fourty years ago)...but i have to give credit to his results...(too bad there's so many injured skaters in his wake)...

adrianchew

12-27-2004, 11:16 AM

Diva never agreed with the part about Sasha being unmotivated, nor did she imply that Sasha was the only skater motivated by winning big titles.
Diva is dead for board trolling and dragging - and that goes for you too. :twisted:

AshBugg44

12-27-2004, 12:32 PM

PML - Posting to defend your own posts my dear? I'm just going to "no comment" that one! :lol:

Schmeck

12-27-2004, 01:07 PM

I find it ignorant to use a racial slur - so, you don't know what it means, it's OK to use it? I could then use one of many other bigoted sayings I grew up hearing from my very bigoted father. It took me quite a few years to realize the many slang things he said were demeaning to certain people. I don't see this as a PC issue at all, it's more of a racist issue. "Cotton picking" refers to slavery, demeaning a whole race of people. It shows that we still have a long way to go in this world, don't we?

Back to topic - who does Naomi Nari Nam train with now? Is she still skating? I wonder if Sasha and Naomi would get each other going again like they did years ago.

jss

12-27-2004, 03:15 PM

danibellerika

12-27-2004, 03:18 PM

Back to topic - who does Naomi Nari Nam train with now? Is she still skating? I wonder if Sasha and Naomi would get each other going again like they did years ago.

She's at Sasha's rink. One of the Sashafans posters who trains there (and they are a reliable poster because they reported Sasha being and Cali and training with Nicks et all) actually gave us a little news on Naomi:

"naomi is doing great...she is still training and working hard...she is also coaching...naomi is at the rink ALOT haha and basically lives there...its nice to see her around...always a smile on her face"

and about returning to competition:

"shes not sure about coming back...she says shes gonna see how things go and take one step at a time which is a good idea"

valuvsmk

12-27-2004, 03:28 PM

I just have to reply to the "cotton pickin" thing. Cotton picking doesn't just refer to slavery. People may have connected it to that, but people of ALL races have been cotten pickers. Also living in the state of Texas, people of ALL races say it around here. Nobody thinks twice about it being even remotely racist because in the context in which it is used it ISN'T even referring to that.

(ETA to add the target of my reply) Schmeck, if she were alive, you could ask Tammy Wynette about cotton picking - she did it herself growing up in the South, as did many poor people, regardless of race. Read her autobiography.

Rachel

12-27-2004, 04:27 PM

The origins of the words "cotton picking" vary depending on what reference guide you use. But most agree that the term "cotton picker" first appeared in the 1900s, after slavery had been abolished, and meant "wretched" or "damned" because few people could be more wretched than cotton pickers. Some say the term was originally racist because most cotton pickers were black; some say it wasn't.

The term "cotton picking" has a slightly different history.

Cotton-Picking
Believe it or not the adjective cotton-picking comes from Bugs Bunny and the Looney Tunes cartoons. He may not have been the first to use it, but he gets credit for first recorded use.

But the noun cotton-picker is older. It dates to around 1919 and refers to a contemptable person. Those who worked in the fields, usually blacks, were beneath notice. The racial overtones have mellowed over the years, but it is still a derogatory term.

http://www.wordorigins.org/wordorc.htm

Tessie

12-27-2004, 06:01 PM

I've heard that expression all my life, and I've never heard anyone use it in a racist manner.

Ditto, and that's coming from somone who grew up in the peanut business with many connections to the south.

LittleBitSk8er

12-27-2004, 06:11 PM

I have to agree with JSS and PaulWyileFan, that cotton picking is NOT a racist term. I think people are getting all worked up again for nothing.

Just wait a Cotton-Picking minute before you reply! I thought this thread was about Sasha and John Nicks............ :)

I am glad that Sasha is back home I think all teens should/need to be near the home base. I cannot fathom sending my girl off, and I know young teens in areas that are away from the parents. I do not think I could do that. But then again I have only one. I would like to go away for a week or so with her during the summer to a camp in Simsbury or Hackensack. Anyone know of a fun and good camp:?:

skaternum

12-27-2004, 06:21 PM

I grew up deep in South Carolina, around people of all sorts, and I never heard the terms cotton picker used at all, much less in a racist manner. Ther term cotton picking was used, but not in a racist manner. It was used as a synonym for phrases like:

gosh-darned
dad-blamed
etc.

To me, this illustrates the point that we just have to move on. I think this term may have been used in a racist manner by a small subset of people. Do we let that group hijack our language, or do we just move on? I think it's a wonderful thing that most people don't associate any racism with it at all. Contrary to what some might think, I believe that demonstrates that we have moved beyond it.

Rachel

12-27-2004, 08:26 PM

I am glad that Sasha is back home I think all teens should/need to be near the home base. [/color]

Is Sasha still a teenager? I thought she was 20. And her whole family had moved to New York to be with her, I thought; her apartment was part of her parents' or something like that, and her sister was enrolled in an East Coast boarding school.

But if she's happier in California, hey, more power to her.

PumpkinHead

12-27-2004, 10:19 PM

I can't say that this is the wisest choice for Sasha, in my opinion. Its just one more distraction that she does not need this close to Nationals. I don't actually mind the coaching change, I just don't think that the timing was great. She's had a lot of interruptions already this season, the stress of moving back across the country surely can't be a good thing for her when she needs to focus on Nationals if she wants to put up a good showing, which I'm sure she does. Also, the Nicks/Cohen pairing didn't work so well before, I'm not totally confident that things have changed enough for it to work now. Robin Wagner wasn't quite right for her, but Nicks may not have been the best choice, either. I'd like to see her prove me wrong, maybe it will be different now that she is a bit older, but I won't hold my breath just yet.

valuvsmk

12-27-2004, 10:21 PM

Now that the PC minions have had their say :roll: and rebuffs have been posted, back to the topic...

If Sasha is more comfortable in Southern California, more power to her. I hope it helps her confidence and skating.

PumpkinHead

12-27-2004, 10:38 PM

. I think pretty much ALL skaters are motivated by the big titles, not just Sasha. :roll:

My take on this is that there are some skaters who really do get a great deal of motivation from their failures and do their best to turn things around. Take Irina for example. At one point she was skating so poorly that the Russian Federation kept her off the world team. She did consider quitting, but then let her failure fire her up and get her motivated to make some drastic improvements to her skating. Sasha, on the other hand, gets very disappointed when she does poorly but instead of taking it as a learning experience and growing from it, she lets is drag her down. So its not that Sasha is the only skater that is motivated by winning big titles, its that she doesn't seem to be able to take something bad that happened and use it as an incentive to turn things around and really get herself fired up and get the job done.

Emmaly

12-27-2004, 11:42 PM

Wow... i thought i was reading about Sashas move to John Nicks not the origin of Cotton picking and slavery!

Blosmbubbs

12-28-2004, 08:36 PM

Sasha is not a teenager anymore, I think her birthday was a while ago? Anywho, I hope her renewed relationship with Nicks works out.

climbsk8

12-29-2004, 01:05 PM

Ummm...from an earlier post ... just curious ... (since I've dropped off the planet the last couple of months)

Who is Tim Goebel working with now?

NoVa Sk8r

12-29-2004, 01:36 PM

Who is Tim Goebel working with now?

He's working with Audrey Weisiger at Fairfax Ice Arena in Virginia (the rink where Loops and I take pair lessons).

climbsk8

12-29-2004, 01:45 PM

You are such a wealth of information, No Va ... I really miss having you around at our rink and I'm jealous that Tim gets to skate with YOU GUYS!

NoVa Sk8r

12-29-2004, 02:03 PM

Yeah; Tim G. is very lucky to be in *our* presence! ;)

Haha ... as I just told mskater, I miss my NC skaters--badly! :cry:

And remember climbsk8, you were the first to experience an off-ice press lift (or was it platter?) with me in Hillsborough!
You also taught me how to do the catch camel (or donut spin variation). :bow:

Ah, the good ol' days!