Question about the US nationals

[LTM]

First I apologise if this has been discussed I just don't remember seeing it.
Why is USFSA going to be using the old scoring system at their nationals? I believe that's what I heard Paul Martini
commenting on yesterday.
From what I've observed so far this year, the skaters (and
coaches and choregraphers) who've had the consistant success this year are the ones who've gotten their heads around COP.
And how do the Kwans and Cohens really know how their programs stack up point wise if the only times they skate them the old system is used?

[Julia]

"Although tests are being run at U.S. competitions, the new judging system cannot officially go into effect in this country until it is passed at the 2005 Governing Council in May 2005. Therefore, U.S. Figure Skating will use the 6.0 system for all U.S. competitions during the 2004-05 season."
http://www.usfigureskating.org/New_Judging.asp?id=280

Cohen has skated under CoP so she'll do well. Kwan has not skated under the new system but she surrounds herself with great people who will make it work for her, IMHO. :)

Julia
(Later) Is this the first season for Irina under CoP? She was out most of last season. Works for her! ;)

[Mariadonna]

There are several reasons. 1- It's exspensive to put in a new computer scoring system with trained judges and they are cheap. 2- they are so arrogant they think it doesn't matter. 3- they've been wearing blinders since before Peggy Fleming's time which the other countries will painfully soon remove. :D

[blue111moon]

As a member-run organization, USFSA bylaws require that changes be voted on at the annual Governing Council meeting, which takes place in May. Since the ISU system went into effect after last year's GC meeting, US competitions can't be changed until after the issue is voted on in May 2005. That's procedural.

Secondly, USFSA has more judges and accountants than any other federation, all of who have to be trained on the new system. This costs money. At a time when revenue is decreasing, USFSA has to come up with a way to fund all the training for the hundreds of officials, as well as figure out a way for COP to work all the way down to the grass roots level, without callers and touch-screen computers, and figure out how COP affects the current test system as well. This takes time, since ISU hasn't bothered with the bottom end of the scale. Also, remember that USFSA judges and accountants are volunteers and have to fit the training in around their real lives. So training has to be spread out over time and locations to give people choices about when and where they go for the training. And then after training, they'll need time to practice on the new system to be sure that they know what they're doing.

As for the elite skaters and coaches, they've had more opportunity to study COP than most of the judges have. If they haven't chosen to take advantage of the opportunities, then that's their problem.

[Mariadonna]

Either way the U.S. will pay big time.

[Schmeck]

Mariadonna, it has been explained (twice) why the US cannot use CoP at Nationals. Of course the skaters are aware of CoP, their coaches have studied CoP, and the USFS is directing the skaters to be ready for CoP. So, can you explain (instead of just state) why the US will "pay big time"? Many of the top skaters have been competing the last two seasons under the GP CoP, so they've had experience. Are you suggesting that the ISU is going to underhandedly, illegally, penalize the US for not using CoP at Nationals?

Are there other countries not using CoP at their Nationals?

[loveskating]

I doubt seriously if the USFSA could not call an emergency GC meeting, or even call a telephone or computer conference vote on this one issue. Most organizations leave room for exceptional circumstances or the day to day governing body is free to make a one time rule change!

So, I'm left to speculate as to why they want to do this...

I think under conditions where there was little or no corruption, it would be bad for the skaters who have never competed under the COP. I doubt if those who have will change their programs much.

However, I don't think the ISU has the power or would want to sanction them in any manner.

[mikey]

I understand the procedural argument, but it also seems a bit like an excuse to me... if USFS had thought it was an important enough issue, they could have found a way to work around it.

I do not completely buy the expense argument. The ISU developed a paper-based scoring system that has been used successfully elsewhere, and I don't think there ever was an expectation to have computer systems with replay and touch screens all the way down to the grass roots level.

It just seems to me that the beaurocracy was slow to respond to this issue. Somehow lots of other skating federations were able to make it happen- even the large ones. Do I think it will make a lick of difference? No, not at all... All of the top senior and junior skaters have had 2 years of international experience using CoP, and they'll all be using CoP-ready programs at US Nationals. American skaters are already prepared for CoP, even if USFS is not.

In my mind, the only question mark is Michelle Kwan. I still have this sneaking suspicion that the real reason she dropped out of the GP series again this year (after announcing that she planned to compete) was that she got some concerning feedback after the Fall cheesefest and realized that she needed to make a few significant upgrades in order to not get slammed under CoP. It will be interesting to see how Bolero has changed when she skates it at Marshall's...

Anyhow, both sides do have to admit that USFS does look kinda silly still using the old 6.0 system 8-)

[Schmeck]

If the USFS switched to CoP without proper notification to all members of the meeting, would it be legal? How could they manage it? Oh wait, the ISU pulls that kind of crap all the time, so I guess it could be done, however devious.

Don't forget that the first year of CoP was a test of the system, so this is the first year that CoP is being used at Worlds. How was the USFS supposed to know if CoP was going to be accepted or not until this year? That doesn't give them much time to do things properly.

Which other countries are using CoP at their nationals this year? Can anyone answer that question?

[7302005]

I was under the impression that although nationals could be converted, it was the regionals that would find the CoP hard to implement - finding technical advisors, etc.?

I don't know that for certain, and could be dreaming, but thought I heard or read some discussion related to the regional level....

[Mariadonna]

I wish to heaven the ISU could somehow sanction the U.S. at Nationals for not using CoP- legal or not. I would be a happy camper. They deserve it for trying to keep FS in the dark ages. Yes, I agree that Kwan didn't want to do the GP after Cambpells because of the CoP. She won't have a choice in the matter next year. Ha Ha.

[SkateFan123]

I was under the impression that although nationals could be converted, it was the regionals that would find the CoP hard to implement - finding technical advisors, etc.?

I don't know that for certain, and could be dreaming, but thought I heard or read some discussion related to the regional level....
CoP is expensive to implement. The extra computers and software and technical support for them is a concern.

Additionally, the contracts for the year were signed before CoP was passed by the ISU. Therefore, the USFS can't go in and change the rules after Regional or Sectional or US Championship contracts were signed.

You are correct that it would be difficult to find the advisors, judges, etc. Let's not forget these folks are volunteers too. The costs involved with having more judges that you need so the secret computer can do it's magic.

It will be interesting to see how the USFS handles this at Governing Council this year.

[Schmeck]

Mariadonna, have you found out the percentage of countries using CoP this year at their nationals? You are so quick to slam the USFS, but there are other countries using 6.0 this year as well.

[jenlyon60]

The USFS web site has a page with info on the New Judging System, and more will be added there, as the planning moves forward. From the main USFS web page, go to the top menu bar, and it's the first selection before the selection for the Bulletin Board.