Arakawa's Flip? Lip?

[Vicky458]

Arakawa seems to roll the edge of her flip jump resulting in a lip. But, it doesn't seem as the judges nor the technical analyst are taking deductions. Her flip looks like a lutz making 3 lutzes in her program. Doesn't this violate the Zayak Rule?

[trains]

Triple flips are very commonly done off an outside edge like a lutz. Some coaches teach it that way intentionally. Instead of a three turn, a shallow rocker is done. Look carefully at Cynthia Phaneuf's triple flip and you will see that it takes of from an outside edge.

[3ggi3]

Triple flips are very commonly done off an outside edge like a lutz. Some coaches teach it that way intentionally. Instead of a three turn, a shallow rocker is done. Look carefully at Cynthia Phaneuf's triple flip and you will see that it takes of from an outside edge.

it's funny because it is not that difficult to do a real flip
or a real lutz for that matter
it is really depends on the technique that a skater was initially taught

speaking of Shizuka, It appears that she got a new dress
http://images.tsn.ca/images/stories/20041106/arakawa_37880.jpg

[danibellerika]

That's not new. It's her SP dress. Her spiral extension is improved a lot.

[prunes89]

Why all the fuss about Sasha's flutz then? Shizuka's jumps aren't text book perfect either. :frus:

[3ggi3]

That's not new. It's her SP dress. Her spiral extension is improved a lot.


ooooo
i like it
yea her spiral is actually quite nice!

[3ggi3]

Why all the fuss about Sasha's flutz then? Shizuka's jumps aren't text book perfect either. :frus:

because it is possible to do normal take offs! look at the rest of the top skaters, kwan, suguri, kostner, they all do normal take offs!

[Buzzing84]

Triple flips are very commonly done off an outside edge like a lutz. Some coaches teach it that way intentionally. Instead of a three turn, a shallow rocker is done. Look carefully at Cynthia Phaneuf's triple flip and you will see that it takes of from an outside edge.

Unfortunately triple flips done on outside edges are lutzes! It doesn't really matter whether a coach happens to teach it that way or not; it's wrong. I'm pretty sure the take offs for jumps were made for a reason. A flip should take off of a back inside edge plain and simple. I'm going to agree with Bondo though, and say that it should simply be lower mark in GOE.

[icedancer2]

Although I think that a lip is less obvious than a flutz, I, too, agree with Bondo. Otherwise too complex.

[danibellerika]

because it is possible to do normal take offs! look at the rest of the top skaters, kwan, suguri, kostner, they all do normal take offs!

Michelle flutzes. It's not as bad as Sasha's, but when it's all said and done, she's on an inside edge before she launches. At this years worlds on Italian tv for Michelle's SP (the net broadcast), they slo-moed the jump, zoomed in on her boot and it was an inside edge. The commentators called it a "flootz".

I think that if they do instant replay, they should do it on flip and lutz take offs. That way you're deducted for not doing it right and the judges won't miss it. Some think it may be ok to lip and judges don't pay as much attention to it, but I don't think that is right at all. Improper tech is improper tech and you should be penalized, period.

[fadedstardust]

Well, judges pass skaters doing lips and flutzes in the USFS tests- so who can blame people for doing them in competition that way too? Hold skaters back and make them learn it the proper way, or don't kick them later on when the USFS has already issued the seal of approval on the botched jumps. You can't send out judges to say "YES YOU PASS THE DOUBLE LUTZ" for the Senior free test and then have that same judge say "DEDUCTION" or even more "DOESN'T COUNT" for that same jump later on.

And everyone flutzes sometimes. Michelle usually does not. And for the record, I do think flutzes/lips are a problem and should be failed, and then deducted everytime one makes the error. I'm just saying it needs to start from the beginning, or it's hypocritical.

[fadedstardust]

it's funny because it is not that difficult to do a real flip
or a real lutz for that matter
it is really depends on the technique that a skater was initially taught

speaking of Shizuka, It appears that she got a new dress
http://images.tsn.ca/images/stories/20041106/arakawa_37880.jpg

Oh, God. Shikuza is a beautiful girl, but that dress is disgusting. Why can't she get a dress that actually covers her ***? That ruined the program for me last year, and it will again this year. I know she doesn't do it on purpose but I can't understand how no one would notice that, or even how she wouldn't notice it in pictures, and get it fixed. That's just tasteless.

[mskater]

That's just tasteless.

Not only is she a beautiful girl, I think it's a beautiful dress. I like the cut as I think it accentuates her lines and positions:]

[fadedstardust]

Well it sure does accentuate SOME things. Her excellent bikini wax, for starters?

[mskater]

Well, whether or not you like the cut of the dress, which I DO, certainly it's an improvement over the monstrosity that she was wearing...

[fadedstardust]

I like the rest of the dress, it's very pretty. But am I understanding correctly that you LIKE the fact that it rides up her arse? I'm just double checking here. And no, it's cut about as high up her butt as last year's dress. If you mean a step up from the anime-fandom-bubblegum-pink-horror dress, then I regret to inform you that so far, she's keeping it. This red dress is her short program dress. Anime girl dress is the long program dress.

[mskater]

Yes, I like the looks of her short program dress and I loved her long program dress from last year's worlds; I would be the last person to 'notice' her arse hanging out, if you get my drift;] Hopefully someone will tell her that this year's long program dress has got to go!

Speaking of dresses, I really like Cynthia P's long program dress; anyone have any pics of her in the short?

[NoVa Sk8r]

Here's a pic and profile:
http://www.skatecanada.ca/en/events_results/events/mcsci04/athletes/phaneuf.html

And another pic:
http://www.skatecanada.ca/en/events_results/events/mcsci04/news/images/fri/phaneuf.jpg

Speaking of dresses, I really like Cynthia P's long program dress; anyone have any pics of her in the short?