Daria Grinkova

[blizabat]

Anyone know how her skating is coming along? What level is she and any results on competitions would be appreciated.

[Trillian]

Daria competed in club competitions in New England this season, doing pretty well at the pre-juvenile level IIRC. I think she competed "up" at the juvenile level a few times, but she didn't enter the qualifying competitions at regionals so I assume she hadn't tested juvenile at the time of the application deadline. I haven't seen any of the non-qualifying results from regionals so I'm not sure if she competed pre-juvenile there.

I believe the maximum age for juvenile singles competition is 12 at the time of the application deadline (the first few days of September), so Daria would just barely have another year of eligibility if she wants to try it next year.

Otoh, for those who are hoping she'll be a top competitor someday, I'd have to say it doesn't look likely. Most girls her age who are future elite competitors would at least have been in juvenile this year, more likely intermediate or even novice, and attempting to qualify through regionals. Even skaters like Cohen and Kirk, who both got off to comparably late starts, were at the intermediate level by the time they were Daria's age. It just doesn't seem like she's on the elite track at this point. She has done well in many of the events she's entered, though, and hopefully she's having fun.

[fadedstardust]

Oh come on, when is the nonsense gonna end about that stuff? "oh, she's not a Juvenile by age 12, she doesn't have much of a chance of medaling at the top" that crap is so old and it's such a "sheep" mentality. That's what people tell you to believe (coaches, etc...) so you do without actually questioning the reasoning behind it. And if you do, you realize it truly makes no sense. I mean are we not getting the message with all the injuries? The triples TOO SOON? Ie: before bones are even halfway done growing? Yeah, at this rate Daria might be the only one left standing in 5 years so...you really don't know. You can't tell at 12 years old if a little girl is gonna medal at Nationals/Worlds/whatever in 6-8 years. At 12, Johnny Weir had been skating for 2 years. At 29, Maria Butyrskaia was still winning titles. This "OMG she's 12 and not even in Juvenile!!" stuff is such crap. She's skating, she's been skating, she's doing well, so she's got time. And just because she might progress a little slower than her competition does not mean she doesn't have a shot, on the contrary, at least she's taking her time. The next age limit is 18 years old, for Intermediate, so if she wanted, she could spend 6 years in that level. I highly doubt she would. But she could. The age gap is there for a reason- people reach intermediate at different rates. From Novice on up, the progress is much quicker, usually. I don't know if she'll make it to the top or not, and it doesn't matter because she's so young. But if she doesn't make it, it won't be because she wasn't sweeping the medals at 12 in the Juvenile division.

[Debbie S]

Actually, I believe Daria did compete at Regionals this year in Juvenile. I think she was just shy of advancing out of her qualifying group.

And I'm pretty sure the maximum age for Juvenile is 13.

[skaterinjapan]

It appears Daria did in fact switch to juvenile sometime over the summer, because she placed 5th in her QR at the New England Regionals.

Here is her competitive history, from http://www.gg-corner.de/results.htm
currently: USFSA Level - Juvenile

Year Competition 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Maj. End Result
2005 New England Regionals (QR) 5 3 4 4 5 3 5 - - 4/4 5
2004 Cranberry Open (F) 10 10 7 8 11 8 10 11 10 7/10 10
2004 Cranberry Open (QG) 4 3 3 3 3 2 4 3 3 7/3 3

USFSA Level - Pre-Juvenile

Year Competition 1 2 3 4 5 Maj. End Result
2004 Charter Oak Open 1 1 2 1 2 3/1 1
2004 North Shore Open 1 3 2 1 2 4/2 1 (tie)
2004 Summer Challenge 3 2 2 4 3 4/3 3
2004 Colonial Open Competition 2 2 2 4 3 3/2 2
2003 All Year FS Club Championships 4 3 3 5 4 4/4 4
2003 Glacier Falls FSC Summer Classic (FS) 12 16 5 16 16 5/16 16
2003 Glacier Falls FSC Summer Classic (A) 4 3 7 2 3 3/3 3

USFSA Level ・Pre-Preliminary

Year Competition 1 2 3 4 5 Maj. End Result
2002 All Year FS Club Championships (FS) 4 6 5 6 5 3/5 5
2002 All Year FS Club Championships (A) 2 2 1 1 2 5/2 2

[Lmarletto]

I don't get why every time someone asks what Daria's up to, someone has to comment on how her progress compares to the average skater her age. She has a very experienced mother, (probably unlimited) access to excellent coaching and performing opportunities most skaters only dream of. Her situation is so far from the norm that standard sorts of milestones can be very misleading. Not to mention those are the milestones for ladies singles - there are other disciplines. ;)

But even if she was your average no-name skater, why write her off at twelve? Jennifer Don started skating at ten. Was she intermediate at twelve? And I'm pretty sure Johnny Weir was 12 when he started skating. Are they really the only international competitors who didn't progress according to the conventional plan?

Regardless, when she's performing, she looks like she's having fun, so good for her!

[Sylvia]

I don't think Trillian was writing Daria off -- just being realistic. Being in the top 20 Juvenile level girls in the New England region this year was a very good accomplishment for her, but there's no way to predict her future success with any certainty based on her results so far (or on her genes). In any case, Daria can compete another year in Juvenile in the 2005-06 season if she wants to because she won't turn 13 until after the September 1st Regionals application deadline next year.

[Trillian]

I don't get why every time someone asks what Daria's up to, someone has to comment on how her progress compares to the average skater her age.

I guess some of us are uncomfortable at the idea of so many people having such high hopes for a kid at the juvenile level. I don't think it's good for a kid that age to have expectations piled on her (by some people, not everyone) which look, at this point, to be pretty unrealistic. I'm not trying to be overly negative about Daria's prospects, I'm just pointing out the realities of the situation in hopes that the people who are watching her with such great interest might realize that so far, frankly, there's nothing to indicate that she's going to have the kind of success some people seem to be expecting. Give the kid a break. If it happens, great. Right now, she should be able to enjoy competing the same way all the other 12-year-old juveniles out there do, without all the extra expectations she hasn't shown any indication she's going to be able to meet.

[Sk8n Mama]

When I was skating many of the coaches put their children in skating and it was rare that the child ended up succeeding on a higher level than Mom. To be honest, I can't think of a single skater I knew whose mother was a coach who ended up doing 'big things' in my region. Granted none of those coaching mothers were Katia Gordeeva but there just doesn't seem to be much genetic connection when it comes to skating ability.

Also, you have to consider that part of Katia's ability came from her teeny tiny stature. She was always extremely small for her age and did dance early so she had that grace (if you're interested in her early career, there's much about it in her book "My Sergei") Daria doesn't seem to have her mother's tiny build. She looks much more like Sergei.

[mikey]

Backpedal, backpedal, backpedal... We all know what the intent of the mistake-ridden earlier reply was- no need to try to hide it now. :roll:

[Trillian]

Backpedal, backpedal, backpedal... We all know what the intent of the mistake-ridden earlier reply was- no need to try to hide it now. :roll:

Huh? I made one mistake--I didn't know Daria's results from regionals because I don't have time to memorize all the lower level results at regionals, and I'm not going to pay special attention to one skater because of her last name.

As for my intent, it was hope that people wouldn't put too much pressure on a 12-year-old kid. I don't see any difference between my first post and my second in that regard. I stand by everything I said in my first post, except the competition results, which other people corrected.

If you think I have some more sinister motive, sorry, you're mistaken. :roll:

[fadedstardust]

No no no, Trillian, I agree with you that the notion of basing expectations on a kid based on their results at the Juvenile (or even Intermediate-Novice, that's the time MOST skaters quit if they're going to quit, and a lot do) is bad. It's even worse to expect a kid to do well based on her genes, as they say. But what I think is even worse is to totally discourage a kid and say they'll never score the big ones because they're behind, when really they are only behind on the notion that you must be a Senior at age...15 these days, to become a gold medalist, and while that's been the current trend, it certainly is NOT a cold hard fact, and while she may not be a contender in the Olympics if she started skating at age 35, saying she doesn't have much of a shot because she's 12 and barely in Juvenile is probably just as much of a "there's no way to tell" game as saying she'll be a top contender because she's faring well at the low levels. They're both equally harmful, and equally irrelevant to her future success. I really do not know why people are so hell bent on having prepubscent jumping beans as medalists. It's been shown by many a skater that puberty doesn't claim your jumps forever if you have a fair amount of talent and you work hard to overcome the changes. Don't you want some nice WOMEN who can understand, appreciate, and interpret the music? There is such a different between the Kimmie Meissner/Tara Lipinskis of the world versus the Michelle Kwan/Maria Butyrskaia/Irina Slutskiaia of the world, and clearly the more mature age of the second set counts for something.

[Lenny2]

Realistically, it is much more difficult for a full-grown teenage girl to acquire triple jumps than it is for a pre-teen girl. That is why, if a girl has not acquired a good double axel and at least one good triple jump before she stops growing, she'll likely have a tough time acquiring a full set of triple jumps and succeeding one day as a senior lady. That is also why you tend to see people keeping an eye on the kids who have early success at juvenile and intermediate level--they likely have not yet gone through puberty, have not reached their full height, and have already acquired good jumping skills that they may be able to carry through puberty. A twelve or thirteen year old who is not well on the way to a good double axel may still acquire that jump, along with all the triples, but she will have a tougher time than the girl who acquired a double axel at 11.

It is not the same for boys, who do not acquire larger hips during puberty. Boys get stronger during puberty and many see an improvement to their jumping skills, whereas girls may begin to struggle with jumps as they gain weight and see a change in body shape.

So, no one is picking on Daria by pointing out that, it is unlikely that she will be a standout if she is spending her first year as a juvenile at age 12. That is not to say that she has no chance of making it big--she'll just have a tougher time than the younger girls who already have acquired the jumping skills to be at the top of the juvenile and intermediate level. Of course, those girls may be injured by the time they are 15 or 16 so, as it goes in skating, only time will tell!

[doubletoe]

Lenny2 - Excellent job of explaining the phenomenon without dooming anyone to a failed skating career! :)

[Mel On Ice]

If Daria doesn't get all those triples... there's always pairs!

[Sk8n Mama]

Lenny is exactly right.

[vanillalatte]

I hope Daria achieves whatever level she WANTS to achieve. :)

[thebiggestggfan]

You can see her be our guest programe on gordeeva.ru!

Love GG and Dasha!

They're my Gods! :bow:

[passion]

She's 12 already?!!! I still remember her as a 3 year old hugging mommy.

[passion]

There are two issues being discussed here as I read the posts. One being, the fact that at her age she should be at a certain level doing certain jumps. Well, I frankly think that you can't really tell a skater's future based on what jumps they have achieved by a fairly early age. Some people are late bloomers and who are complete underdogs, but who seem to pop out of nowhere one day. Others who catch on early don't do as well as expected as they reach higher levels. Jumping, by the way, is only one aspect of skating. I disagree with coaches who dish skaters early on because they think they know best.

The other issue I read here is the issue of genetics. I don't think jumping technique is genetically acquired. That needs to be learned. Perhaps the physical features of a good jumper are acquired. I'm not sure, but I do think that artistry is acquired genetically. Of course it can be taught to a certain point, but you can always tell which skaters have it naturally.

So, I'm just wondering for those who have seen Daria skate, is she quite an artistic skater? And also, does she do ballet?

[Lenny2]

Twelve isn't a particularly early age in skating any more. As I said in my post above, I certainly agree that girls who have gone through puberty without acquiring triple jumps may still acquire those jumps later in their skating careers, but it will be tougher for them to do so than for the girls who can acquire those jumps while they are still quite small. Of course, many girls who acquire great skills at a young age don't keep those skills as they grow, so you never know. I've only seen Daria skate a bit on television, and it looks like she is built more like her dad than her mother. But, it did look like she had nice emphasis on pretty hands, arms, toes, etc., like her mother. As I recall, she has not had much interest in ballet, although she did do gymnastics for some time.

[passion]

What tv show did you see her?

[Lenny2]

She was on something with her mother last year--I can't remember now. But she didn't look anything like her mother--a lot more like her dad, but with blonde hair. They had her do a lovely spin, perhaps an axel or something like that, but nothing really tough. She seems to do pretty well in competitions, but has not yet been one of the break out skaters in her area. Personally, I would love to see her skate in person. Anybody else seen her skate?

[fadedstardust]

I've seen her skate. She was much faster and surer of herself than the other kids. Her jumps were really off and her spins were nothing to write home about, but I'm pretty sure she was having an off day and I never judge a skater by one competition, so I have no opinion on her skating right now, other than that she bombed her competition that day and barely landed anything. If she's still interested I think she could develop into something good in the future, though, the basic skills and power are definitely there.

[imanta]

There are more recent videos of her skating and she is significantly improved from last year (based on the videos and to a non-expert eye). If you guys go to www.gg-corner.de there should be links to the videos. There is one of a full program that she did recently. IMO, she's very graceful and has very good presence on the ice. It appears that her jumps and her spins are improving. I don't know what's in store for her skating in the future, but it's really fun to see her skate and it looks like she's having fun. :D

[Jaana]

An excerpt from the Ilia Kulik interview in the new Blades On Ice magazine (mentioning about future):

> "... I might get into coaching and try to develop myself as a coach, because I do enjoy it very much. I do enjoy working and I feel comfortable with my knowledge. [Skating] is my whole life. I´ve had the best coaches all my life and I think it would be a waste not to keep it going, not to pass it on."

One person he is already passing his knowlege on to is his stepdaughter, Daria. "She´s in juvenile level, and I do help her a lot with her skating," Kulik said. "But she needs to figure out whether she enjoys it or not. Because it´s a tough sport; you really need to push yurself. We´ll see if she sticks with it or not. It´s her choice." >

Marjaana