Sydne Vogel to compete for Germany

[Aaron W]

The following is from Blades On Ice:

[quote:594cbaeff0][b:594cbaeff0]Sydne Vogel Moves To Germany[/b:594cbaeff0]
Former US Junior Ladies Champion (1995), Sydne Vogel, now 22, plans to move and compete for Germany in the future. Vogel, who began skating playing hockey at the age of five is a native of Anchorage, Alaska. At the age of seven she began figure skating, and by 1997, Vogel added the 1997 World Junior title to her skating accomplishments. After winning the World Junior title, she wasn't able to make a smooth transition to the senior level and injuries kept her from competing for a while.
Earlier in this summer, she made the decision to move to Germany and contacted the German Skating Federation (Deutsche Eislauf-Union). Sports Director Udo Doensdorf, said speaking on the phone from Munich, "We now forwarded the documents to the ISU. She needs one year of residency before she will be able to represent Germany in international competitions."

Vogel, who has German ancestry, plans to go to Oberstdorf in August. She hasn't yet chosen a coach or a place to train. According to Doensdorf, she has been released by the USFSA. Vogel is welcome in Germany whose Ladies have been struggling in the past few years in international competition. "We are glad for anyone who is bringing up the competition a notch in German skating," Doensdorf commented.[/quote:594cbaeff0]

Here's a link to their web site: http://www.bladesonice.com/mag/blaweb1.htm (the blurb is about 1/5 of the way down the page)

[Gingi]

I don't necessarily agree with athletes country-hoping, but I can understand why it occurs. Especially given the skating depth that countries like the United States have. And being allowed to compete for another country makes sense when one or both of the athlete's parents are natives. Trifun Z. I think could at least claim dual-citizenship through his parents. But for Vogel to compete for Germany because of her "German ancestry" seems ridiculous to me. As much as I like her, it seems obvious that this is a way for her to compete internationally. Despite several comebacks she's yet to make it out of sectionals/regionals in the last few years and perhaps she knows that this is the only way for her to compete on the level she feels she is capable of. How well she'll do is a different story, this all seems very misguided.

As cruel and I know this sounds (which is not my intent) when athletes country-hop there is a part of me that feels it's because they know can't "make-it" in their home country. Very rarely do you hear of a successful athlete country-hopping.

Just my opinion.

[meli]

Gingi--I have to agree with you. I think the athlete hopping is part of the reason figure skating is going through it's current problems. Think about it--if Marina Annissina hadn't been allowed to move to France simply because her first partner left her and she wanted to be in the Olympics, and this mobster guy didn't necessarily know that and think with her gold medal Marina could convince the French government to extend his visa...

I think there should be a "citizenship rule" concerning ISU competitions. I know the rules already say to compete in the Olys you have to be a citizen of the country you're representing, but I propose that rule should be extended for all ISU-sanctioned competitons. Furthermore, I'd like to see where you not only have to be a citizen, but you have to be a full-fledged citizen for at least 5 years. That way a skater is going to another country because they want to live in that country, not because they know they're not good enough in their own country and think by going somewhere else they're going to get to the Olympics that way.

[skelly]

At least Sydne is moving to Germany to train. Some competitors rarely set foot in their home country once they begin to seriously train--look at Sylvia Fontana, for instance, or 90% of the Russians. The whole idea of someone being "from" a country, or "representing" a country, is beginning to have about as much significance as a football player being a 49er or a Cowboy.
On one hand, this is a good thing--it is a sign of our increased mobility and of, perhaps, a slow turn towards becoming more of a global community. On the other hand, it at least gives the appearance of rank opportunism, over loyalty and devotion. Is Sydne Vogel a German? In a pig's eye. Can she "represent" Germany? Legally, yes. But for every medal she ever earns, there will be the unspoken corrollary--yes, well, she's really American...

[Gingi]

How is it that Tanith Belbin from the U.S. is not eligible to compete in the 2006 Olympics because of her citizenship but Trifun Z. and potentially Sydney V could? This has to do with US immigration law right. Seems unfair that the IOC doe snot have a uniform policy.

[Gingi]

I can understand going to another country to train, i.e. better coaches and facilities, but to country hop because you can't move up the ranks in your home country is silly.

[Ellyn]

[quote:4e9a999878="Gingi"]How is it that Tanith Belbin from the U.S. is not eligible to compete in the 2006 Olympics because of her citizenship but Trifun Z. and potentially Sydney V could? This has to do with US immigration law right. Seems unfair that the IOC doe snot have a uniform policy.[/quote:4e9a999878]

They do have a uniofrm policy -- competitors must be citizens of the countries they represent. Do you really think the IOC could dictate immigration policy to all coutries that send athletes to the Olympics?

Who said anything about Vogel competing at any Olympics?

[speedy]

Is it too late for me to skate for Scotland next year? ;)

[skelly]

oooh! I claim Bermuda!

I once had a pair of Bermuda shorts, so therefore I have Bermudan ancestry, and shall skate for Bermuda.

I plan
on leaving for training as soon as possible. I've already put in an advance order for lots of tropical juices with little paper umbrellas in the glass.

[Arsenette]

Bermuda doesn't have a FS Federation :wink:

It's not as easy as you think to jump countries.. there are strict rules by the IOC, ISU AND the member federation.. you have to claim some sort of bloodline (even if it is by grandparent) with proper documentation.. not just.. "I'm such and such - but not sure how far back".. there must be documentation.. then of course they have to comply with whatever residency (depends with each country) AND if they want to compete internationally there are requirements added on by the country's Olympic Federation as well as the Member Federation.. Olympics are a separate entity on to it's own with it's own politics.. so - let's see what happens.. If Sydne makes it in Germany (being accepted to compete) she would have to have had the proper documentation.. and guess what.. you can't argue with that regardless if you don't agree with it. As for training in other countries.. why not make yourself better where the training is better? No EVERYONE trains in the US for crying out loud.. and besides.. I don't blame the skaters for trying to give their best and go out and sacrifice themselves leaving their country behind to train where you feel is better. I believe you'd do the same if given that opportunity.

[JS]

What do you people think then about that American girl that competed for Azerbaijan (Sp?) at the last Olympics. She competed in ice dancing with some Russian guy. Her name I beleive is Fraizer (sp?). They took something like 19th or 17th place.

Needless to say she has never been to Azerbaidjan nor has any blood line or anything. Could not make it to international level in this country. Just got another citizenship -- and here she was -- competed at the Olympics.

Isn't THAT ridiculous?

[michele]

Well, blame the lax citizenship policies of Azerbaijan if you will. It might seem ridiculous, but a number of countries just aren't as demanding as the US and I can't blame skaters for taking advantage of them when possible.

btw, did Tanith Belbin not hack it in Canada? :P

[LadyNit]

So, does switching citizenship to Germany mean that Sydney gets a heap-o-money to train and represent her new country? That does strike me as self-serving and opportunistic, if her motive is simply to go where the low-hanging fruit (read skater funding/competition slots) is most available to her.

What I really wonder about is what Germany's FSU could possibly gain by sponsoring her. She isn't exactly in a position talent-wise to do much to put them on the map internationally at this point. Or am I wrong?

If I were working hard to deserve German FSU euros, I think I might resent the sudden appearence of a US fig skater with ties back through grandma (or whoever) making a claim on whatever limited financing is available.

:?

[Trillian]

[quote:5cd851c3fa="JS"]Needless to say she has never been to Azerbaidjan nor has any blood line or anything. Could not make it to international level in this country.[/quote:5cd851c3fa]

Uh, yeah, I think she probably could have. At her last U.S. nationals she finished 8th with her partner in their first year together. They'd probably have gotten an international assignment in the fall, but her partner quit. Not much she could do about that.

There were no strong enough male partners available in the U.S., so she found one from another country, and they made the decision to skate for his country. That's not any more wrong than if they'd made the decision to skate for HER country; they had to pick one or the other, after all. And they were good enough to [i:5cd851c3fa]qualify[/i:5cd851c3fa] for the Olympics.

Incidentally, this team's international placements are proof enough that she's not a bad skater as far as I'm concerned. There are plenty of other U.S. girls who compete internationally in dance with foreign partners; most of them don't place among the top 20 in the world.

[manleywoman]

Well said Trillian. You took the words out of my mouth.

[meli]

[quote:782520cb70]Bermuda doesn't have a FS Federation [/quote:782520cb70]

Actually, Israel didn't have a FS federation either until Micahel Schmerkin emigrated from Russia. So if someone wants to represent Bermuda they are more than free to do so... :wink:

[Bibby]

We should think of this as a positive thing for Sydne. She's been overshadowed by so many young skaters. This may be her last chance to try to make an Olympic team...even if it is with Germany.

[ToddFan]

A person is the same person no matter where she or he chooses to live or what country she or he chooses to represent, unless by doing so they are knowingly supporting government oppression or something :wink:. I don't see why it should be an issue.

If I decided to move to / write for a publication in a country other than the United States, whether my ancestors came from there or not and whatever my reasons, I personally wouldn't give much credence to people considering that a defect :) There's a world of nations out there, like a country full of cities in some senses, and it's hardly an evil or a slam to wherever else you've lived and worked to move between them.

Best of luck to Sydne after facing a number of obstacles in her career! :D

[11yrskate]

Many of the US skaters cannot financially afford what it really takes to become a top US skaters. Very few have the ability to have their own personal coach like Sarah Hughes. That does not mean they are less talented. Sydne Vogel, does not come from a wealthy family like the Hughes and Cohens. If any skater chooses to skate for another country, especially one who will support the skater, and give them the opportunity and the money to train properly, then I say go for it. The US gives such little financial support, comparitive to the cost of skating. For team B the award is between 10,000 and 15,000 dollars, compared to an overall cost of 50,000 to 80,000 not much help, especially if the families income is only 50,000 - 80,000. And sponsorships in this country for up in comers are so few and far between. Maybe, if the US would stop paying hundreds of dollars to Senior skaters, like Weiss, Kwan, and Eldridge to stay in another year, and funnel that money to the truly talented Junior and Novice skaters who are not economically advantage and who often have to quit because their parents cannot keep up with the cost of training, going to another country or quiting all together may not have to be the answer.

[J.J.C.]

[quote:a50ec5ca14="Gingi"]How is it that Tanith Belbin from the U.S. is not eligible to compete in the 2006 Olympics because of her citizenship but Trifun Z. and potentially Sydney V could? This has to do with US immigration law right. Seems unfair that the IOC doe snot have a uniform policy.[/quote:a50ec5ca14]

You mix up two different things. For Olys you need citizenship (passport), for Worlds not. Different rules.

[J.J.C.]

[quote:679ca1d218="LadyNit"]So, does switching citizenship to Germany mean that Sydney gets a heap-o-money to train and represent her new country? [/quote:679ca1d218]

Who says she is changing citizenship to compete for Germany? It's not necessary.

[Hannahclear]

The US ladies field is very very deep, so I can't fault her for trying in another country. I don't see the problem with it, she could be maybe in the top 20 at worlds, but not if she can't make the medals at Nats. Sarah, Angela, Sasha, Jenny, AP maybe MK, it's just too many, she'd be what 7th or 8th with a good skate? Good for her I say, the US has plenty of skaters.

[Arsenette]

[quote:0404ab6967="meli"][quote:0404ab6967]Bermuda doesn't have a FS Federation [/quote:0404ab6967]

Actually, Israel didn't have a FS federation either until Micahel Schmerkin emigrated from Russia. So if someone wants to represent Bermuda they are more than free to do so... :wink:[/quote:0404ab6967]

No problem.. but if someone wants to represent Bermuda in International competition they'd have to wait until the whole Federation is recognized.. That takes a while.. Even Misha had a time where he had to wait.. it wasn't just "him going to the Olympics" with no backing. Israel was already an ISU member nation by that point.

[meli]

I think the big problem here is the lack of honesty. Sydne is trying to make it sound like she wants to move to Germany because she suddenly feels these really strong desires to be in her "motherland". She should just come right out and say "well, it's clear that I'm going to get nowhere in the US because there are 20 other women who are better skaters, have more money, have better coaches, and the Olympics is my life and if I can't get there I'll just wither up into a little ball and die a horrible death because I have no value to anyone except as an Olympic athlete."

Frankly, if she did say that, she'd get a heck of a lot more respect and support for her decision than the Bovine Scatology she's throwing at us right now.

[Hannahclear]

I guess I just don't see why she owes us an explanation. She is a grown woman, doing what's best for her career. More power to her, and for all we do know, she does feel connected to her heritage. There's no way to disprove this, so we should give her the benefit of the doubt. I look forward to seeing her internationally.

[Mazurka Girl]

[quote:3995305cb2="meli"]I think the big problem here is the lack of honesty. Sydne is trying to make it sound like she wants to move to Germany because she suddenly feels these really strong desires to be in her "motherland". She should just come right out and say "well, it's clear that I'm going to get nowhere in the US because there are 20 other women who are better skaters, have more money, have better coaches, and the Olympics is my life and if I can't get there I'll just wither up into a little ball and die a horrible death because I have no value to anyone except as an Olympic athlete."
Frankly, if she did say that, she'd get a heck of a lot more respect and support for her decision than the Bovine Scatology she's throwing at us right now.[/quote:3995305cb2]

It would, of course, be ridiculous for us to imagine that her objective might actually fall in between either of these two absolute extremes. :roll:

I can think of other skaters who have jumped ship to other countries that have not been nearly as successful as this one & I don't see remarks nearly as hostile about them.

The door's been open for skaters to do this for years, just like they've been changing regions within the U.S. for years.

[adrianchew]

[i:1f14886dcb]As long as skaters are within the rules, they're entitled to switch countries.

Since we've moved off tangent from the news to discussing what is well within the rules, I'm closing this down... there is no need to target any one skater specifically when others have done the same. ~adrianchew~[/i:1f14886dcb]