Stop the madness and injuries

[Spider68]

Like a broken record, I'm going to state again: There are too many injuries that are destroying our young skaters, especially girls, because of the rush to jumps. USFSA needs to take some responsibility and start controlling the rush to triples. The argument that we will be left behind by the Chinese and Japanese that will have the jumps is "valid" -- maybe the ISU will do something. In the meantime, we will see "one-jump-wonders" that explode onto the skating scene, only to be gone in 12 months with hip and back injuries. Let's make the Moves in the Field "harder" as a start. School figures held back skaters and allowed the bodies to physically mature before being pounded by these new jumps.

[Peter_K]

You're not the only one who feels this way. Doesn't it seem just plain wrong that kids are having to undergoe back surgery and hip replacements?

In order for this to work, it really has to start at the top. The new COP scoring system might help out a little bit, but ultimately, the ISU needs to clamp down on all the jumping.

The problem is, jumps are what seems to get the biggest pop from audiences. Would the audiences stick around if you took them away or toned them down? I'm almost afraid that with general audiences for skating events dwindling, there might wind up being more emphasis on jumps.

Personally, I'd like to see figures brought back, but I'm not about to hold my breath.

--Peter

[fadedstardust]

You want to see figure skating REALLY die? Bring back figures. NO ONE in competitive skating would do them. Lives are faster now- and ice and coaches more expensive. It just is not worth it, there ARE other ways to improve edging, starting with dance.

Meanwhile, I agree that there is too much jumping and that it should be limited but figure skaters are not these helpless little creatures. We make the decisions, we pay the price. After I had surgery I knew I was supposed to stay off for 6 weeks. I also knew I had competition in 4. Going back would risk me re-injuring myself. I went back anyway. Most skaters are this way. I was lucky that it turned out OK in the end, the injury and the competition, but you can't blame my coach for not pushing me away when she knew I had 3 more weeks of recoup time to do, it was MY choice. All athletes make these choices. Why so much focus on figure skating injuries? You know, tennis players can get a MEAN wrist sprain. ;)

[WeBeEducated]

The changes in the design of skating boots and blades have not kept up with the huge changes occuring in technical difficulty.
I feel skaters are using equipement that is 20 years outdated.
Even the ice surfaces are contributing to injuries in rinks that are kept too frigid with hard brittle ice.
I think if most competitive skaters at the junior and senior level were thoroughly examined with an MRI we would find a majority to have stress fractures.
Dont know what the solution is
but definately NOT the expense and drudgery of figures.

[md2be]

I agree figures should be brought back.

I disagree about technology of the boots...they have made them stiffer and this makes the torque affect the knee and hip/back much more than the more giving boots in the past. I dont think the right balance has been found, but I think they are too stiff now.

[skateflo]

Other parts of the solution are more defined training regime - in other words the coach needs to help the skater set a specific pattern for when they are on the ice so that their body is fully warmed up by the time they start doing their jumps in a session and set a limit to how many jumps attempted per session. Another part, and the powers that be are aware of this, the skaters need to limit the number of competitions they do each season. It even starts at the Basic Skills level and these kids are going almost every weekend to compete somewhere.....the parents just can't say no to their little darlin'

[Terri C]

It's not just the lack of figures, but the fact that there are so many more competitions now.
Back in the day, skaters went to regionals, then sectionals if they qualified, and then possibly nationals.
Now there's all the Grand Prix, Cheesfests, numerous shows, tours and exhibitions and non qualifying competitions to choke a horse or better yet wreck his back!

[montanarose]

As the originator of this thread mentioned, girls seem to be more vulnerable to these hip and back problems. But have you seen the latest article up on the USFSA web site re: Evan Lysacek? He has a break in the hip socket and a stress fracture in the hip itself and is attempting to skate through it. His doctors recommend surgery that involves placing screws in the hip. What is he . . . all of 18 years old or so?

[WeBeEducated]

Hate to hear that about Evan.
My son has suffered with stress fractures in pelvis and lower back..it all started with the triples.

[Chico]

I agree with several comments here. Skaters need to warm up before hitting the ice. I warm up everytime I skate, AND I don't have any company. I don't see or hear coaches talking to their students about this. I also agree that skaters and many coaches are jump crazy. As a skater, I love jumping best, but I do understand this is only part of the puzzle. Third, more moves need to be done. LOTS. I've seen kids practicing doubles and such with NO edge control. And really, skating is all about edge control. Deep edges and control. I think good skills are the base. And, spins, jumps and fun little elements are all made up of moves. I'm not sure about figures per say, but I do think more moves would be a plus. Too many young people are getting hurt. I definitely think all the triple madness is part of this. And, starting kids way too young.

[Perry]

It's not all about edge control. I've always had good edge control -- I've been doing dance since I was seven, and around here, it actually takes effort to pass dances; kids can't just freestyle there way through them. Regardless of that, when I was twelve years old, I started having hip problems, and when I was thirteen I had surgery. My hip was bad enough that the surgery, which ordinarily last 90 minutes, lasted over 4 hours. Furthermore, I had developed about ten other conditions in my hip which can't be surgically corrected, or won't be until I'm eighteen. Whereas most skaters are off for maybe three months after this surgery, I was off for two years, because my hip was so badly damaged.

I know exactly why the problem developed. I started working on triples when I was ten, and I'm the type of person who works until the end of a session, and doesn't stand by the boards. In about a year, according my doctor, I had developed a cyst in my growthplate -- under the constant pounding of triples everyday it couldn't fill in properly. Somehow, this made the rest of my hip more susceptible, and because I, like most, was trained to skate through pain, I never did anything abou it. By the time I actually saw a doctor a year later, it was way too late.

The problem is that kids work too hard. You never see any of the ones that stand by the boards getting these injuries. Furthermore, some hip sockets are simply more susceptible to them, and, coincidentally, those are the hip sockets that make it easiest for a skater to jump. (when the ball of the socket is too large for the socket).

[WeBeEducated]

I think Perry has hit the nail on the head. The skaters who work diligently and relentlessly on those triples at a young age are taking a dangerous pounding.

[fadedstardust]

I think the biggest part of the problem is that kids are taught to believe that skating should be something you squeeze in before college- it's not a "career", I don't know when or why that happened, but even dancers get more mileage out of their careers than skaters do. I don't think kids should start jumping that early, especially the big jumps, because their bones haven't finished developing yet and that's when the majority of injuries START. The belief that after 18, a girl is past her prime- that's what's screwing everyone and everything, and I think it's very wrong.

On the other side of the coin, Kwan has never had a major injury and she's been at Senior Nationals since she was 13. The Japanese ladies putting out quads and triple/triple also seem fine up until now. I think it's a mixture of being too young, working too much, and improper training. And no one will ever fix all three- if one- of these things. But a jump limit, and MORE age limit to keep kids that are too young out of the competitions you need triples for, would be a start.

[Chico]

Just for the record. I didn't say edge control would prevent injuries. I think edges, line, and control is what makes figure skating figure skating. Warming up, spreading your abilities out (not just jumping), and starting triples later is what would help with injuries. And yes, better edge control and understanding body line can't hurt. I've seen kids who have no idea how to check, where the lean should be on jumps, and basically flinging themselves into doubles. This almost always results into a killer fall. My old coach used to say..."Just cause you "can" doesn't mean you should be". My opinion.

[loveskating]

I tend to go with those advocating the ISU clamp down, but I'd do it as to the rules, where other things should emphasized. THe COP is like that to some extent, and I'd be for reducing still more the points you get for jumps.

I agree that the skaters themselves make these decisions, including day by day at the rink.

However, I think parents also make decisions, and they will increasingly make the choice not to let their kids skate in the first place, or to see to it they only skate recreationally, if what they see is people injured for life with no career ladder to fall back on.

Working class parents are different...they have little disposable income to offer their kids at all times, so they would let them skate, but the econmics and politics in our country right now mean that working class kids cannot even skate at the entry level, it is so expensive. (no doubt, everyone has seen on the news how real wages continue to decline in the US, starting back in the late 1970s).

Lot of problems for skating to solve.

[NJSk8Fan]

I think you have all made some very good points in this thread.
I've been saying for years that skating is looking more like "jump fests" than SKATING.
There are entirely too many young people suffering injuries, injuries that seem to be coming as a result of all the jumping.

[BABYSKATES]

I don't see any blanket policy or rule that any organization could put in place as a solution to this problem. You have those who get terribly injured who did big jumps at a young age and you have those who never have big injuries, despite starting big jumps very young. Truly technique is important but there are other issues, too.

This is just my theory. Look at the body type that skating promotes. Itty bitty, skinny, tiny skaters are worshipped in this sport. Muscular, healthy sized skaters are often told they are too fat for the sport. I see so many less injuries in average sized skaters than in the whispy, overly small skaters. Think about it. Michelle Kwan is muscular and not extremely skinny or small. Her skeleton and joints have adequate muscular support. This even seems to be somewhat true for the men. The bigger, more muscular men seem to be more injury free than the super skinny, less muscular guys. Evan Lysacek is SKINNY. He is very talented and while being so thin may contribute to being able to jump higher, how long can his body tolerate the pounding with nothing to cushion or support him? (And come on! What is he doing skating through such a serious injury in the first place. Nothing is that important!) I'm not saying that the injuries only happen to the tiny ones but it seems to be more prevalent in them.

What skaters who are not naturally skin and bones do to get and stay skinny promotes osteoporosis, predisposing them to skeletal injuries such as stress fractures and joint problems. Look at the Japanese skaters. They appear to be average sized, healthy girls but even with the youngest of them doing triple jumps (including axel) and even quads, they are raising the technical bar with a lower injury rate than we have.

I could be way off base but that is a thought that occurred to me. I have a healthy sized young skater who is working on big jumps at a young age and I have given the issue a lot of thought and research.

[LittleBitSk8er]

Other parts of the solution are more defined training regime - in other words the coach needs to help the skater set a specific pattern for when they are on the ice so that their body is fully warmed up by the time they start doing their jumps in a session and set a limit to how many jumps attempted per session. Another part, and the powers that be are aware of this, the skaters need to limit the number of competitions they do each season. It even starts at the Basic Skills level and these kids are going almost every weekend to compete somewhere.....the parents just can't say no to their little darlin'
Well we are not basic skills anymore, but I limit the competitions to three a year plus regionals as a rule. One local, one in state and one out of state. I am not sure how many is a good number to attend but the entry fees can break the bank alone. Lord, knows the bank is already cracking open with just lessons and ice times.;)

[Isk8NYC]

It's not just in skating, it's all sports. In swimming, I've seen little kids of seven and eight doing butterfly events! And they do the stroke well, which means they've been training very hard, even though most coaches don't recommend training in 'fly until 11 or 12 years old. The result is an incredible spike in rotator cuff injuries and surgeries. But, we're breaking records left and right.


At this point, I wouldn't encourage my kids to "go for" the Olympics. It's not worth the emotional and physical costs.