Sasha out of SA with a back injury. [Archive]

SkateFan123

10-20-2004, 05:51 AM

It's unfortunate, hopefully she'll be able to decide on China early enough for them to get an alternate if it is needed.

Hopefully Michelle and Sasha get healed by Nationals or we'll have a mighty interesting group at Worlds (and perhaps lose the third spot for ladies.)
Bondo, you surprise me. You bashed MK for being injuried and fed the frenzy. Not a bad word about Sasha. Tells me who you favor.

But I'm glad you didn't feed more crap about Sasha's injury. I'm certain it's real. I wonder if she'll attend to get her award and just not skate? (She's getting the Michelle Kwan Trophy on Sunday during an ice make.)

I hope both ladies heal quickly and are back to competition soon!

Schmeck

10-20-2004, 07:13 AM

There's lots of info about her injury on her official website. She's seen a surgeon about it, will be doing four weeks of intense physical therapy, and has had an MRI. Sounds like her jumps are gone for now - no multi-rotational jumping for a while.

So, both top US ladies out with back injuries - can someone deliver this message to the ISU please? "Enough with the GP, enough with the 6-7 triples programs! How many crippled female skaters do we need to make a point?"

jcspkbfan

10-20-2004, 08:37 AM

So, both top US ladies out with back injuries - can someone deliver this message to the ISU please? "Enough with the GP, enough with the 6-7 triples programs! How many crippled female skaters do we need to make a point?"

Make that three US ladies--Jenny Kirk withdrew from Cup of China due to injury (I don't know what kind of injury) a week or so ago (she's still scheduled to compete at Cup of Russia, though):

http://www.usfsa.org/Athletes.asp?id=216

I can't remember the last time sooo many skaters have been injured this early in the season. :cry: I certainly hope they can all make a full recovery!

Schmeck

10-20-2004, 08:55 AM

Didn't know about Jenny - ugh!

Kemy

10-20-2004, 09:37 AM

Wow...I thought this was a joke. I guess a back strain is pretty serious then? I was under the impression that a back strain wasn't considered serious...at least that what someone said in another thread. Do you think that she made it worse by pushing through her pain? Back pain is pretty serious. I hope she gets better and takes a little longer than 4 weeks to recover in order to make sure that her back is fully healed before trying to do something that could aggravate it further.

Rapt2Go

10-20-2004, 10:54 AM

Perhaps we should use this opportunity to speculate on the negative for the sake of a good discussion? Sorry. Couldn't resist.

Hopefully these injuries will have something good come out of them. Like perhaps somebody of authority will take notice and reduce the number of triples allowed? Or the number of events will be spaced out and/or reduced? Or an equipment manufacturer will improve their product to minimize damage to the body?

Sasha appears to have been in pain for some time. I hope she pulled out soon enough to address the problems in her back. Not only would she have more time for recovery, but a replacement might have been possible and we could have seen some different faces and skating. I hope Sasha and all the skaters take good care of themselves and focus on the big picture.

Artemis

10-20-2004, 11:09 AM

Hmm ... as much as I'll miss seeing Sasha, aside from the injury itself (and here's hoping it heals quickly and well), I think this could be a good thing for her. In the past couple of years she's been on fire early in the season, then drops off by the end of the season. If she misses the GP, maybe she'll be able to peak at Nationals and Worlds.

loveskating

10-20-2004, 02:41 PM

Bondo, you surprise me. You bashed MK for being injuried and fed the frenzy. Not a bad word about Sasha. Tells me who you favor.

But I'm glad you didn't feed more crap about Sasha's injury. I'm certain it's real. I wonder if she'll attend to get her award and just not skate? (She's getting the Michelle Kwan Trophy on Sunday during an ice make.)

I hope both ladies heal quickly and are back to competition soon!

But you are "feeding " what you call the "frenzy" aren't you, while pretending not to?

Bondo never bashed MK for being injured! What an outrageous lie! No one did. He and many other posters merely pointed out the inconsistencies in the news about the reasons for MK withdrawing from the GP Series. In that context, he specifically said that the article first posted about the injury did not contain a quote by MK...so even there, he left plenty of room for defense of MK as to consistency.

Frankly, if you look at the information and statemetns that Sasha has put out as compared to Michlelle, then I think Michelle could learn something...although Sasha has not withdrawn from the GP Series yet...so far, only from one competition. I suspect, from the info given, however, that she will not be ready to compete for some time.

The way Sasha has handled all this...seeing a doctor, providing information, etc., apologizing to her fans who bought tickets to Skate America -- I think perhaps Michelle takes a lot for granted, and maybe she should not be so thoughtless, and just maybe those criticizing her for this have her best interests at heart more than those FAWNING all over her all the time! If they do not subjectively, then objectively they do!

I'm sorry, but if I were Michelle, I'd read Shakespeare's King Lear, and read it carefully. Many of her fans are NOT "like her family". Rather, they are people who have hung their hat on HER power, and use it to play their own little games!

ARTIQUE

10-20-2004, 03:50 PM

But you are "feeding " what you call the "frenzy" aren't you, while pretending not to?

Bondo never bashed MK for being injured! What an outrageous lie! No one did. He and many other posters merely pointed out the inconsistencies in the news about the reasons for MK withdrawing from the GP Series. In that context, he specifically said that the article first posted about the injury did not contain a quote by MK...so even there, he left plenty of room for defense of MK as to consistency.

Frankly, if you look at the information and statemetns that Sasha has put out as compared to Michlelle, then I think Michelle could learn something...although Sasha has not withdrawn from the GP Series yet...so far, only from one competition. I suspect, from the info given, however, that she will not be ready to compete for some time.

The way Sasha has handled all this...seeing a doctor, providing information, etc., apologizing to her fans who bought tickets to Skate America -- I think perhaps Michelle takes a lot for granted, and maybe she should not be so thoughtless, and just maybe those criticizing her for this have her best interests at heart more than those FAWNING all over her all the time! If they do not subjectively, then objectively they do!

I'm sorry, but if I were Michelle, I'd read Shakespeare's King Lear, and read it carefully. Many of her fans are NOT "like her family". Rather, they are people who have hung their hat on HER power, and use it to play their own little games!

I think it should be obvious by now that Michelle & Sasha's interaction with fans are very different by choice. Michelle does not have a website or does she give weekly/mtly journal updates. From that alone I can conclude that Michelle has different boundaries when it comes to a running commentary on her life, skating or otherwise. Now Michelle has given clues from her own mouth by both mentioning that she could not do a layback for weeks because of the pain, and she also stated that she is opting out of the grand prix because it is more beneficial for her skating. Those are clearly TWO reasons for her not to participate in the grand prix. Whether these reasons go into any more specific details or not, depends on Michelle and Michelle only. She does not have to give a running commentary on her practice, skating, injuries or personal life. The choice is hers, not mine or anybody else's.

As an aside, part of the "is she or isn't she competing" situation was caused by the first USFSA article which had her not competing, or partially competing, then a note added saying that Shep had confirmed that she is competing. Since the USFSA, in the subsequent SA withdrawal article, stated that Michelle would accept/decline grand prix assignments in the fall, I think that there was some miscommunication about whether they had an official acceptance by Michelle. Otherwise why would the USFSA amend their original article twice?

hiliairyh

10-20-2004, 04:56 PM

On topic, did she had a stress fracture on her back in 2001?

The way Sasha has handled all this...seeing a doctor, providing information, etc., apologizing to her fans who bought tickets to Skate America -- I think perhaps Michelle takes a lot for granted, and maybe she should not be so thoughtless, and just maybe those criticizing her for this have her best interests at heart more than those FAWNING all over her all the time! If they do not subjectively, then objectively they do!

I'm sorry, but if I were Michelle, I'd read Shakespeare's King Lear, and read it carefully. Many of her fans are NOT "like her family". Rather, they are people who have hung their hat on HER power, and use it to play their own little games!

"if I were Michelle" I am sorry, you will never be Michelle, as MK will never be you loveskating, I mean Abby dearest. .

Oh :roll: king Lear now I am expecting opera or pavarotti. Obviously different skaters handle their interactions with their fans differently. Obviously different fans have different expectations from their favorites.

Actually I can't wait to see what the skate gods will decide this season.

kisscid

10-20-2004, 05:11 PM

Wow, I'm hoping Sasha and Michelle and Jenny kirk get better. I do think something needs to be looked at when our top 3 women are injured after only 1 comp. There is so much more to skating than triple after triple, or even triples in combination. I read on the board here that if michelle wants to win gold she will have to get a triple triple combo. Which is probably true, but is it really healthy for the skaters? I know big jumps are what the audience wants to see and it helps to sell tickets. But I'd like to see more emphisis put on footwork, and deep edging. It can be really fantastic to watch when done properly (I think back to the days of Toller Cranston). I hope all our ladies heal and are 100% again! I live with cronic back pain and it's not very fun (to say the least)
Cid

Kemy

10-20-2004, 06:12 PM

Frankly, if you look at the information and statemetns that Sasha has put out as compared to Michlelle, then I think Michelle could learn something...although Sasha has not withdrawn from the GP Series yet...so far, only from one competition. I suspect, from the info given, however, that she will not be ready to compete for some time.

I don't think Sasha apologized...but then again, I don't think anyone should apologize for not wanting to skate with an injury. I'm pretty sure that with the right exercises and treatments Sasha will be back in time for Nationals...after all, a strain is not all that serious, is it?

Rachel

10-20-2004, 10:32 PM

The way Sasha has handled all this...seeing a doctor, providing information, etc., apologizing to her fans who bought tickets to Skate America -- I think perhaps Michelle takes a lot for granted

Sasha saw a doctor. Do you know for a certainty that Michelle didn't?

Of course not, because Michelle didn't provide information.......to you. She said that she thought it was best for her to skip the GP and she said she was having back pain. How much information do you feel entitled to?

Sasha apologized to her fans? Where? I don't think she owes anyone an apology, any more than Michelle does. The skaters have a lot more at stake here than any fan. So we don't get to see them skate. Big deal. I'd rather see them both doing what they have to do to be well and happy with their careers, as it is their health and their careers.

Rachel

10-20-2004, 10:50 PM

Yes, and it's nice when they do, but neither woman apologized, and my point was not that they couldn't, but that they were not obligated to do so.

Rachel

10-21-2004, 01:07 AM

susan6

10-21-2004, 08:19 AM

I think perhaps Michelle takes a lot for granted, and maybe she should not be so thoughtless, and just maybe those criticizing her for this have her best interests at heart more than those FAWNING all over her all the time! If they do not subjectively, then objectively they do!

I'm sorry, but if I were Michelle, I'd read Shakespeare's King Lear, and read it carefully. Many of her fans are NOT "like her family". Rather, they are people who have hung their hat on HER power, and use it to play their own little games!

Wow. This is the funniest thing I've read on this board for a while. Thanks for the laugh!

loveskating

10-21-2004, 08:30 AM

Someone doesn't have to have done anything intentionally wrong to have it be polite to apologize. It isn't Michelle or Sasha's fault that they can't be there, but all the same they are disappointing fans, thus traditionally in sport someone apologizes for that disappointment. I've seen it hundreds of times with various things.

Absolutely, its just acknowledging the disappointment of the fans and also providing information to the fans to help them not have to speculate....whatever the specific words used.

Some of MK's fans seem to want her to behave like a Diva...but I think in the long run, its not good for her. Look at Maria Callas! Once she was no longer on top, she paid a huge price for all that Diva behavior, and it seems to me anyone who actually cares for MK would not want her to have to pay that price further down the road.

ClevelandDancer

10-21-2004, 08:52 AM

Why oh why couldn't she have announced this a day earlier ... when I submitted my fantasy skating team! :roll:

I hope she feels better soon.

hiliairyh

10-21-2004, 10:25 AM

providing information to the fans to help them not have to speculate...

Oh really, some fans love to speculate some fans don't. I think 80% of skating message board activites are fueled by speculations. That is part of the fun of being a fan, from my observation. When a skater announced that he or she will announce in 10 days that he or she will disclose the details of the newest costume, we see their fans speculate like crazy.

Some of MK's fans seem to want her to behave like a Diva

Actually I think some people are trying very hard to twist and turn things to present her as a diva.

Look at Maria Callas! Once she was no longer on top, she paid a huge price for all that Diva behavior
Oh here we go with opera, and Callas this time. I just did a quick google search. Callas paid a huge price for letting go of her career for romantic love. BTW once their voice was gone, I don't believe the most humble of singers will get any invitation to sing in major opera houses, diva or no diva behavior.

and it seems to me anyone who actually cares for MK would not want her to have to pay that price further down the road.

Oh full of such good intentions of caring :roll: Michelle has never behaved like a diva, imagine if she went public that she will announce in 10 days the music and costume of her program, what accusation she will received for this "diva like" behavior. (going by your idea that behavior that lead to speculation is diva like)

Lili

10-21-2004, 10:32 AM

Eh, screw it. Deleted. :frus:

Now that that is said, does anyone know where I can find an up-to-date line-up of the competitors? Ill be making the trek to Pittsburgh in about 3 hours, so if anyone has anything that would be super.

TIA.

Rachel

10-21-2004, 02:41 PM

Absolutely, its just acknowledging the disappointment of the fans and also providing information to the fans to help them not have to speculate....whatever the specific words used.

Since when has anything ever stopped fans from speculating? And why is it the responsibility of the skaters to keep the fans from speculating anyway?

And again, I must ask--where in her entry does Sasha acknowledge the disappointment of the FANS? To say that she does when the actual words aren't there is speculation about her intent, thus proving once again that fans speculate about skaters when it suits them, regardless of what the skaters themselves actually say.

Some of MK's fans seem to want her to behave like a Diva...but I think in the long run, its not good for her. Look at Maria Callas! Once she was no longer on top, she paid a huge price for all that Diva behavior, and it seems to me anyone who actually cares for MK would not want her to have to pay that price further down the road.

Well, I don't know what MK's fans want or don't. But I do know people who have worked with MK and other skaters and it is not MK who is described as having diva-like behavior. Your perception may be that MK is behaving like a diva, but that is all it is--your perception, even if some others share that perception.

prunes89

10-21-2004, 07:24 PM

I have no doubts that Sasha has a serious back injury and is taking proper care of it. I just hope she is well enough to skate in Nationals. I hope she wasn't over training for the 3/3's and the quad. Does anyone know how she injured her back?

doubletoe

10-21-2004, 09:47 PM

Ooohhh, forgot about the fantasy skating team! Is it too late to play that, 'cause I need to put Kimmie Meissner on there, LOL! :lol:

fadedstardust

10-21-2004, 10:49 PM

This is the closest thing I could find to an apology:

I am very saddened that I have aggravated my reoccurring back injury, and will not be able to defend my title at Skate America. I was looking forward to competing in the first event of the Grand Prix series and am very disappointed that I will not be able to do so.

Apology (http://www.wordreference.com/definition/apology): an expression of regret at having caused trouble for someone

She is sad that she is hurt and she is disappointed that she won't be able to compete because she was looking forward to it. Everything she says there is self-directed. I don't see anything there about being regretting that this might effect others.

But again, I don't expect her to apologize.

You must be VERY biased because you quoted the FIRST paragraph of that entry- which indeed doesn't show anything about any "apology" to fans, and then you left out the second paragraph, which is the paragraph adressed to/about her fans:

My fans are very loyal and I am very lucky to have your unconditional support. I will do my best to keep you up-to-date on my rehabilitation and training on my journal so you get the correct news here.

Thank you for your patience and support.

It's not an apology but it's certainly a gesture, and the fact that you quoted the first half which didn't have to do with anything, but not the second, is just plain weird.

jpeach

10-21-2004, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loveskating

"Some of MK's fans seem to want her to behave like a Diva...but I think in the long run, its not good for her. Look at Maria Callas! Once she was no longer on top, she paid a huge price for all that Diva behavior, and it seems to me anyone who actually cares for MK would not want her to have to pay that price further down the road."

Whatthefu?

You must be VERY biased because you quoted the FIRST paragraph of that entry- which indeed doesn't show anything about any "apology" to fans, and then you left out the second paragraph, which is the paragraph adressed to/about her fans:

My fans are very loyal and I am very lucky to have your unconditional support. I will do my best to keep you up-to-date on my rehabilitation and training on my journal so you get the correct news here.

Thank you for your patience and support.

It's not an apology but it's certainly a gesture, and the fact that you quoted the first half which didn't have to do with anything, but not the second, is just plain weird.

Whaaaaat?

ClevelandDancer

10-26-2004, 11:00 AM

Ooohhh, forgot about the fantasy skating team! Is it too late to play that, 'cause I need to put Kimmie Meissner on there, LOL! :lol:

Yep, the deadline was 10/20. Sorry.

Rachel

10-26-2004, 11:37 AM

It's not an apology but it's certainly a gesture, and the fact that you quoted the first half which didn't have to do with anything, but not the second, is just plain weird.

This is what I quoted: http://www.sashacohen.com/sashaout.shtml

I didn't realize that she had both a News section AND a journal. The first paragraph of her journal entry is not what I quoted before, as you will see if you compare them all.

But yes, you are right, it is certainly a gesture, if still not an apology.

fadedstardust

10-26-2004, 04:37 PM

This is what I quoted: http://www.sashacohen.com/sashaout.shtml

I didn't realize that she had both a News section AND a journal. The first paragraph of her journal entry is not what I quoted before, as you will see if you compare them all.

But yes, you are right, it is certainly a gesture, if still not an apology.

Ohhhhh well I didn't know she had a news section, I thought she updated through her journal only. So we both learned something new about Sasha's site. Woo hoo? Hahaha.

Rachel

10-26-2004, 04:48 PM

I don't spend a lot of time looking at skater websites, but Sasha's is certainly the most comprehensive I've ever seen. I think it's nice that she puts so much effort into it.

fadedstardust

10-27-2004, 02:04 AM

I agree, I like her site too. I like her "ice cream of the month" section, it made me discover Oatmeal Cookie chunk, which is the BEST Ben and Jerry's ice cream known to man. :D

prunes89

10-27-2004, 04:47 PM

valuvsmk

10-27-2004, 06:18 PM

I enjoy Sasha's journal, however I do wish she would discuss her skating more. I am a fan of her as a figure skater. I don't care what she cooks, what magazines she reads, or what she likes to eat. She is my favorite figure skater period. Figure skating is her life, I just wish she would discuss it more.

Excuse me? Her LIFE? 8O I seriously doubt that - she seems to be genuinely interested in many areas such as cooking, fashion and travel. What she does as an athlete and to earn some money is figure skating, but her coaches or family certainly don't flip the switch to turn her on or off immediately before or after practices or competitions. :roll:

AxelAnnie22

10-27-2004, 07:42 PM

I enjoy Sasha's journal, however I do wish she would discuss her skating more. I am a fan of her as a figure skater. I don't care what she cooks, what magazines she reads, or what she likes to eat. She is my favorite figure skater period. I just wish she would discuss it more.
I totally agree. As much as I am interested in her skating, is how much I am NOT interested in what restaurant/premier or walk she went to or on!

valuvsmk

10-27-2004, 08:46 PM

I totally agree. As much as I am interested in her skating, is how much I am NOT interested in what restaurant/premier or walk she went to or on!

Well, based on your editing of prunes' post in quoting him/her, you apparently don't think that figure skating is Sasha's life, at least. That's commendable.

Of course, no one is forcing you to read any of her journal entries at all.

loveskating

10-28-2004, 07:57 AM

I totally agree. As much as I am interested in her skating, is how much I am NOT interested in what restaurant/premier or walk she went to or on!

I love that stuff. I love hearing about Sasha's life...I think such things have a social value, even, in that it demonstrates that people like her are just human...with one incredible talent.

loveskating

10-28-2004, 08:12 AM

"Since when has anything ever stopped fans from speculating?"

Plausible information stops speculation for most rational people. If there are people who are not rational, then they would not be so under any circumstances, and in relation to no one...rather like some of the Kwaniac superfans, I'd say.

unafaluna

10-28-2004, 08:28 AM

Are there any more reports on the severity of Sasha's re-occuring injury? I hope it's not as serious as it was four years ago.

Alexa

10-28-2004, 08:30 AM

I think Sasha does a good job with her journal...she has a good mix of skating and personal news.

Now, sorry to bring Tara into this, but I don't think she has ever done a good job with her journal. She has never done entries all that often, and when she does it is usually about what food she likes. And then when she was transitioning from skating to acting, she basically quit mentioning skating altogether which I think is not really fair to her fans. She should have at least made a comment to openly admit she is not skating anymore.

So, I think Sasha's is much better in that she does a good job of mentioning the things that her fans expect of her and adds some good personal information.

Rachel

10-28-2004, 08:44 AM

"Since when has anything ever stopped fans from speculating?"

Plausible information stops speculation for most rational people.

So if people consider speculatively negative "reasons," it is the skater's fault for not providing "plausible" information.

Gotcha.

As long as well agree on what plausible means, we should be in good shape. What are the odds there?

Personally, I find speculation about the motives of people I don't know at all both fruitless and irritating. Unless I have very good reason to do otherwise, I take people at their word. If Michelle says that she thinks it's better for her to skip the GP, I assume that that is the actual reason she doesn't do the GP. If Sasha says that her back is injured, I don't need to hear that she's seen a doctor and been taking physical therapy to believe that it's true. Of course, YMMV.

lilwish

10-28-2004, 03:33 PM

which is not much
Sasha's journal has made her seem very friendly and human to me, not an experience I have had with her in person at Nationals, where, it now occurs to me, she has been very very focused.

I think she is gorgeous to watch and am hoping she is feeling better by Nationals since I do have tickets. and am hoping that Jenny and Michelle and AP and some of my other favorites will heal up before Portland. I love watching up and coming skaters. It is one of my favorite parts of Nationals but there really is a different level (from my point of view) in the top 10?

Anyway, that's all off topic. Michelle has mentioned lower back problems for years. This is not a new problem. The GP has been hurting skaters since it began. It is only about money. I would much rather see healthy skaters 3 times a year than injured skaters some of the time...just my two scents...

loveskating

10-28-2004, 10:24 PM

So if people consider speculatively negative "reasons," it is the skater's fault for not providing "plausible" information.

Gotcha.

As long as well agree on what plausible means, we should be in good shape. What are the odds there?

Personally, I find speculation about the motives of people I don't know at all both fruitless and irritating. Unless I have very good reason to do otherwise, I take people at their word. If Michelle says that she thinks it's better for her to skip the GP, I assume that that is the actual reason she doesn't do the GP. If Sasha says that her back is injured, I don't need to hear that she's seen a doctor and been taking physical therapy to believe that it's true. Of course, YMMV.

I find self contradictory and self-serving specualtion the worst of all..for instance, Michelle makes a decision not to skate in the GP Series, and says, forthrightly, that she believes it helps her skating not to do so...meantime, some of her fans claim that she has an injury and that is the REAL REASON, not what she said, and furthermore, they assume a serious injury and take me to task for offering information that it might not be a serious injury!

She gave a clear cut explanation, and I straight up disagree with her. So shoot me! I did not "speculate"! I simply disagree with her. I think her peak was 2000, 2001 and she has not even been at her "fighting weight" since. I'm not interested in her medals...it was her SKATING that I loved. I loved those Worlds LPs, and I still watch them. If anyone wants to see a seamless skate at a high level of difficulty, with truly great presentation, go watch Kwan's 2001 LP at Worlds. She hasn't been close to that since.

If you or anyone else is satisfied with that, it is your perogative...what I object to is this bashing everyone who is not satisfied with that. I'm not.

lilwish

10-28-2004, 10:55 PM

Loveskating, I know you were responding to another post, not mine. I will say though, that I agree with Michelle's decision not to do GP as well as for Sasha to do less events this year. I think it is too much pressure, travel and strain for them to maintain the level of quality they and we deserve. I also, offered up Michelle's former mention of back problems not as her current reason for not doing GP but as a further reason in my own mind for her to stay as healthy as possible. She has made many decisions that I have disagreed with. I think leaving Frank was one of the worst. I have been critical of her in the past and will be in the future (not crazy about the choice of Bolero) but by and large, I think she is sensible. I know you were not responding to me, as I said, but I do want you to know that I can agree with some of what you think and disagree about some other parts (like it used to be here). Hope you get the spirit of what I mean.
Deb

hiliairyh

10-28-2004, 10:59 PM

And some Cohen superfans, Jenny superfans e.g. speculate quite a lot about even though they keep an official journal. I don't see this as superKwan fan specific.

There is a difference between disagreeing with a skater's decision, and imagining character flaws.

fadedstardust

10-29-2004, 01:30 AM

CoP isn't hurting skaters. If anything, it's lessening up the pressure of doing the biggest jumps because CoP rewards EVERYTHING, and you don't have to dig your own grave if you're skating first. It's making all of us skaters work harder to come up with jump entries, new spins, etc. People who are concerned about the health of the skater because he/she is going into a jump with a new entry...need to learn more about skating. A jump is the same no matter how you enter from it, and most skaters learn 2-3 different ways from which to enter a jump before settling on the one best for them. Expecting skaters to be able to pull off jumps from interesting entrances or do more positions in spins will beautify programs and push the sport. I mean it's about time the sport get pushed in ways other than quads and triple/triple, and CoP is bringing that about. I don't know why people are unhappy about it, it'll take a while, and no judged sport will EVER be completely fair, but nonetheless, the CoP in itself is only going to bring the skating world good progress.

Rachel

10-29-2004, 06:01 AM

I find self contradictory and self-serving specualtion the worst of all.

I'm not picky. It's all stupid and self-serving, AFAIAC, since it's only purpose is to support a particular viewpoint.

for instance, Michelle makes a decision not to skate in the GP Series, and says, forthrightly, that she believes it helps her skating not to do so...meantime, some of her fans claim that she has an injury and that is the REAL REASON, not what she said, and furthermore, they assume a serious injury and take me to task for offering information that it might not be a serious injury!

Um, saying "offering information that it might not be a serious injury" is speculative. If you are dealing only with what was actually said, then there never was a statement from Michelle that said anything about an injury. If you find assumptions from her fans to be objectionable because they are speculative, why do you think it's okay to respond with more speculation?

She gave a clear cut explanation, and I straight up disagree with her. So shoot me! I did not "speculate"! I simply disagree with her..

First of all, you can stop telling me to shoot because you assume that I disagree with you. Go and take a look at the thread in question. I didn't post once, so you have no way of knowing what I think on the subject. But you just said she gave a clearcut explanation and all you did was disagree with it. Disagreeing with it would mean saying "I think this a bad idea for the following reasons." You don't consider saying things like Michelle is addicted to high-risk behaviors to be speculative? And when some people were interpreting a comment in an article to mean that Michelle was injured, you went off on long list of reasons that "back pain" did not constitute an injury, then said "Some are not willing to consider speculatively negative reasons out of those that are objectively possible." Were you defending someone else's right to negatively speculate about the depth and breadth of Michelle's supposed injury?

If you or anyone else is satisfied with that, it is your perogative...what I object to is this bashing everyone who is not satisfied with that. I'm not.

I am not bashing you for not being satisfied with that; I couldn't care less if people like Michelle Kwan or not. I simply find many of the arguments you make for bashing Michelle to be specious, illogical and speculative, and are often founded on baseless interpretations of things that are said or done. If you post on a public board, you are inviting discussion of your ideas and thoughts. Don't be surprised if you get them, and don't be surprised if people disagree with you, sometimes strongly.

LittleBitSk8er

10-29-2004, 09:21 AM

But I'm glad you didn't feed more crap about Sasha's injury. I'm certain it's real. I wonder if she'll attend to get her award and just not skate? (She's getting the Michelle Kwan Trophy on Sunday during an ice make.) I am sorry I find it humorus that Sasha is getting a Michelle Kwan award seeing that those two are the top two skaters in the USA.

Also, in the past I was never a real "Go Sasha" woman, I thought and still do think she is an excellent skater, but after the Marshals Skate Fest, I really changed my mind about her personally. Often we see Sasha at competitions with her "game face" on and mistake that as her real personality. Sasha was very friendly and warm; she even skated around with me a bit.

It just puts things in perspective: Do not listen to what everyone has to say about each other. Find out for yourself, you just might be surprised.

I hope Sasha, Michelle and Jenny a speedy recovery, and look forward to the continued battle on the ice between them. Michelle cut your music time….no more silly deductions! I want to see all the skaters at their best next time they compete.