Unapproachable Axel

[skatetiludrop]

Hi skaters, I was wondering what are the reasons that make an axel the most intimidating and scariest jump (for those who don't agree, what's your most :twisted: jump and what are the reasons that make it so?).
:)

[skaternum]

As Dick says, "It's the treacherous forward takeoff." ;)

[johnfisher]

I think it is more than just the takeoff. It is the first jump that you have to do where you are effectively blind in mid-air. In all the singles you know where you are in mid-air by what you can see. In the axel and everything above it you have to know where you are in mid-air by feel. Not having the reassurance of being able to see where you are is a scary barrier to overcome. The good thing is that once you can do it, the axel is a great jump :D

John

[Mrs Redboots]

A friend landed hers today for the first time in some weeks - she came into the pros' room later, when we were changing, and demanded that the kids - who had seen it - bore witness to her having done it to her coach, who was not in today. She said, "I don't suppose for one moment I'll be able to do it in my lesson, and he might not believe me!"

[NickiT]

Every now and then my coach has me try the axel but we've never really spent any decent and consistent time on it. However I think for me it's that extra bit of rotation that makes it scary. I can't even do it off-ice so I can't imagine ever doing it for real on the ice but I guess I can dream!

Nicki

[vesperholly]

I think it is more than just the takeoff. It is the first jump that you have to do where you are effectively blind in mid-air. In all the singles you know where you are in mid-air by what you can see. In the axel and everything above it you have to know where you are in mid-air by feel. Not having the reassurance of being able to see where you are is a scary barrier to overcome.
I hadn't thought of it this way but that makes a lot of sense. When I started working on my axel recently after a few years of concentrating on moves, I was skidding the take off and not kicking through at all. It felt more like a regular jump that way, but it was always 1/2 turn short and never consistent.

A few days ago I decided to go back to an old exercise of doing a waltz jump-axel "combination". It felt very odd at first (got a lot of height but no rotation) but after a few times I was able to rotate much better. It actually felt like an *axel* instead of a "throw and pray" kind of jump. For some reason I cannot do the waltz-backspin exercise for axels so waltz-axel helped. It's still extremely eville, though. :twisted:

[CanuckSk8r]

If you have ever witnessed a "w-axel"... an axel gone really bad, that is enough to intimidate you!!!!
I think it can be scarier than other jumps for a couple of reasons, mainly it's the forward entry though. But a few other reasons..... the follow through before the rotation starts - an odd feeling to get used to, that extra half rotation is deceiving - it feels like a lot more than just a half revolution!! Another is how easy it is to drop your shoulders, and not be square on the entry and finding out how much it hurts when you fall!!!

Just my thoughts!!!

[MQSeries]

Dick Button was the main reason why I had such fear about the axel. Every competition that Dick commentated he kept mentioning how treacherous that forward take-off edge of the axel was. So of course I carried that mentality onto the ice with me when I was learning the axel. Evertime I stepped forward into the jump, I would think of uncle Dick. I like Button but, seriously, I wish he would shut up about the how "dangerous" a jump the axel is. People learning the jump don't need anyone else to put extra fear into their heads about it.

[NoVa Sk8r]

For me, it has to do with a quantum leap notion. Namely, doing toe loop, loop, and salchow are all really half jumps. The flip is more like a full-rev jump, and this jump was first hard to grasp becasue I was so used t oonly doing 1/2 revs. But the axel is 1.5 revs. That's nearly 3 times the revs of the first 3 jumps listed here. That's a big change for a clunky adult (like me) to master. I know, I know ... you can do 1 1/4 revs or cheat the take-off, but I'm talking about the real-deal jump.

[flo]

I think it's because there's not another jump with that "feel". I've found with the doubles I know how it's suppose to feel because I have the single. With an axel, the "single" is a waltz jump, and the axel does not really feel like a waltz jump.

[Isk8NYC]

For me, it's not the axel takeoff -- it's the fear of not landing it on a back edge! I'm terrified of landing face-first or sideways. I'm not afraid of a lot of skating things, but that's one of them.


I tried a few last week at the Ice Vault Adult freestyle and I was pathetic -- cheated everything! Ah well, back to the MITF and footwork clinic practice.

[MQSeries]

For me, it's not the axel takeoff -- it's the fear of not landing it on a back edge! I'm terrified of landing face-first or sideways. I'm not afraid of a lot of skating things, but that's one of them.


Well, you can land face-first just doing a forward spiral. I have :)

I think a lot of adults learning this jump are just afraid to commit to it once they're air-born. They go up and then don't commit to pulling in their arms and legs at all and just let their whole body drop down on the ice again. You will never get the axel that way. It's rare that you will get a really nasty fall from doing an axel. Even a waxel fall doesn't feel that bad once you've done it. Just commit to it.

[MQSeries]

verperholly,

Your cw layback looks much better than your ccw layback, but you jump ccw and do you do all of your other spins ccw as well? Or can you do other spins in the cw direction also?

[vesperholly]

verperholly,

Your cw layback looks much better than your ccw layback, but you jump ccw and do you do all of your other spins ccw as well? Or can you do other spins in the cw direction also?
Yes, I jump CCW and do *most* of my spins CCW too. I learned flying camel CW, so I am relearning it CCW now. It's still not as good as CW but getting better. I can also do a sit change CW but no forward camels. When I got my boots rebuilt, my CW spins went out the window so I decided I should start doing *all* my spins the proper (CCW) way. I never thought I'd be able to do a camel-back camel but lo and behold after a few weeks I could sort of do it.

I have just about given up on the CCW layback. It is terrible! It would be very nice to be able to do but I don't need it in combination for any test so I can just do a much more stable CW layback.

For those who didn't find the link on the other thread, it's here:
http://www.vesperis.com/video

There are also some axel videos there too if anyone wants a looksee. :)

[JessicaLynn]

I really liked your videos, Vesperholly. How long have you been skating, and what level are you in? :)

[Schmeck]

Hey, I landed face first doing a bunny hop... :oops:

The kids around here learning the axel do a lot of off-ice training for it before they do it on ice. Sometimes it's more dangerous to be in the locker area than on the ice! All those little jumping beans hopping around trying to get the feel of the rotations makes me dizzy just watching them!

[NCSkater02]

Hey, I landed face first doing a bunny hop... :oops:


So did I!....and one of the first times I was in my new skates (the change in toe pick from Jackson Mystique to Competitor is HUGE!!)....and when I caught an edge doing a 2-foot turn....Matter of fact, I think I've fallen on everything possible. :lol:

[sk8er1964]

I'd rather fall on an axel than a bracket any day!

[Chico]

I'm not really a fan of the forward takeoff. It has crossed my mind that I'm "throwing" myself off a cliff. It's always that moment when you lift your free side to push up into the jump. I've found it's best to foucus on the rotation and landing instead.

Chico

[JessicaLynn]

So did I!....and one of the first times I was in my new skates (the change in toe pick from Jackson Mystique to Competitor is HUGE!!)....and when I caught an edge doing a 2-foot turn....Matter of fact, I think I've fallen on everything possible. :lol:

Ack, I have Mystiques and was thinking of upgrading to the Freestyles (not Competitor) when I need new skates again. Does the size of the toepick make it necessary to "learn" things over? I never thought the toepick would change. (I guess I never even thought about it!)

[TashaKat]

Hey, I landed face first doing a bunny hop... :oops:

The kids around here learning the axel do a lot of off-ice training for it before they do it on ice. Sometimes it's more dangerous to be in the locker area than on the ice! All those little jumping beans hopping around trying to get the feel of the rotations makes me dizzy just watching them!

I'm with you on the bunny hop! I was never really taught it and the one time that I was asked to demonstrate it I fell face first and slid across the ice on my tummy .......

Thinking about it, the BUNNY HOP is my scariest jump!! Sad, I realise, but at least you have the rotations on the axel .... this baby is forwards to forwards. I haven't 'got' the axel but I'm happier to try and axel than other jumps .... weird I realise, and if I'm happier with it why can't I do it???

I think that a lot of the 'problem' with the axel is that you're always told how difficult it is and how it take 'x' long to get it ..... I'm not saying that it ISN'T challenging but then so is the loop when you're learning it, so is a spin. Maybe we should all not make such a big deal of it and then the brain won't automatically go into negative mode?

I twisted my ankle doing axels off-ice :roll:

[AstarZ41]

Oh man ITA about bunny hops! :twisted: One is ok, but doing a bunch in a row, especially when you get going pretty fast....it's so easy to catch your toepick and sliiiide :??

[Mrs Redboots]

Dick Button was the main reason why I had such fear about the axel. Every competition that Dick commentated he kept mentioning how treacherous that forward take-off edge of the axel was. So of course I carried that mentality onto the ice with me when I was learning the axel. Evertime I stepped forward into the jump, I would think of uncle Dick. I like Button but, seriously, I wish he would shut up about the how "dangerous" a jump the axel is. People learning the jump don't need anyone else to put extra fear into their heads about it.Is that the commentator? In the days when skating was shown on television (I do hope we get some next time there is a Winter Olympics, but somehow I doubt it), our commentators never mentioned any danger, except in lifts with pairs skaters. In fact, they were very often silent during the programme (always, when it was a dance), and just commented during the wait for the marks, especially if there were replays of the highlights and/or low bits.

[Mrs Redboots]

Thinking about it, the BUNNY HOP is my scariest jump!! You and my Robert both! It's my favourite jump - the only one I can actually do! In our waltzing cat routine Robert reckoned I was evil because we had to do 2 bunny hops in the step sequence, one on each foot. Well, it was easy..... I thought! :twisted:

[NickiT]

You and my Robert both! It's my favourite jump - the only one I can actually do! In our waltzing cat routine Robert reckoned I was evil because we had to do 2 bunny hops in the step sequence, one on each foot. Well, it was easy..... I thought! :twisted:

Add me to the list of skaters who fear the bunny hop. I hadn't done one for years and was then required to do two at each performance of our Christmas show. After a few hesitant starts I actually found they're not so bad after all, but equally they're not something I go around practising either!!!

Nicki

[NCSkater02]

Ack, I have Mystiques and was thinking of upgrading to the Freestyles (not Competitor) when I need new skates again. Does the size of the toepick make it necessary to "learn" things over? I never thought the toepick would change. (I guess I never even thought about it!)

It wasn't so much the size of the toe picks--although they are bigger--as much as they're lower on the blade. I was in Mystiques for a little over a year, and had to get new skates because my heels were moving in them. The pro shop was having their annual sale, and one of the skate school coaches recommended Competitors for me. They even had them in my size. I did have to relearn basic stroking-ie-not toe pushing because they were lower. AND, I tripped on them more than a few times until I got used to them. Even bruised a couple of ribs once--it hurt to laugh for a while. But, it was worth it.

[CanuckSk8r]

Dick Button was the main reason why I had such fear about the axel. Every competition that Dick commentated he kept mentioning how treacherous that forward take-off edge of the axel was.

I think the way Uncle Dick goes on about the axel is hilarious, sort of like it's his own way of patting himself on the back!!! I mean afterall, he was the first skater to land a double axel in competition!!!! I always laugh at his axel comments for that reason!!!

[johnfisher]

I think the way Uncle Dick goes on about the axel is hilarious, sort of like it's his own way of patting himself on the back!!! I mean afterall, he was the first skater to land a double axel in competition!!!! I always laugh at his axel comments for that reason!!!

Well having been working on the double axel this lunchtime I think Uncle Dick has got a point. I'm past being worried about the FO edge on the single axel, but on the double it is the worst part. You have to get that FO edge just right otherwise the whole thing goes haywire - and then of course you find yourself in mid-air spinning out of control thinking "this is going to hurt" :frus:

Fortunately today none of them did hurt that much, but the ice was all wet so I got soaked to the skin!

John

[MQSeries]

Add me to the list of skaters who fear the bunny hop. I hadn't done one for years and was then required to do two at each performance of our Christmas show. After a few hesitant starts I actually found they're not so bad after all, but equally they're not something I go around practising either!!!

Nicki

The bunny hop can actually be a spectacular highlight move if you give it a lot of oomph on the take-off to really get into the air and then really extend your body and legs in mid-air and also when landing. Charlie Tickner always had one in his "My Way" exhibition number.

[JessicaLynn]

Well, I love bunnyhops! They are my best jump. :) I was scared to jump up when I first learned them, but now I can do them across the rink and they get higher as I go (or they seem to ;) )

I think they are so fun. I wish all jumps were that easy!

[Isk8NYC]

I can do Bunny Hops on both feet, but I hate them! I don't like landing forward and I'm too big to be doing dainty little jumps. Ironically, I can teach anyone a bunny hop in a heartbeat. All my students learn them early -- I guess I'm compensating for my own fears. :halo:

Last year, I went to an on-ice workshop where we had to do what the instructor called a "One-Foot Bunny Hop." I chickened out and still haven't practiced it. It's just a skip on one foot, but I'm with you all on the fear of catching a toe pick and kissing the ice. Maybe I'll try it tonight on the wall.

[MQSeries]

I can do Bunny Hops on both feet, but I hate them! I don't like landing forward and I'm too big to be doing dainty little jumps.

A bunny hop doesn't have to be dainty if you really attack the HOP part of it. It might help if you think of the jump more as a full-grown Kangaroo hop than as a bunny hop.

[Mrs Redboots]

A bunny hop doesn't have to be dainty if you really attack the HOP part of it. It might help if you think of the jump more as a full-grown Kangaroo hop than as a bunny hop.One skater once taught it to her son by telling him: "First you kick the rabbit in the stomach, then, when he doubles up in pain, you stomp on the back of his neck!" Works for me....;)

[AstarZ41]

One skater once taught it to her son by telling him: "First you kick the rabbit in the stomach, then, when he doubles up in pain, you stomp on the back of his neck!" Works for me....;)
8O :lol: :lol: PML! Will try thinking of it that way next time I'm doing bunny hops :twisted:

What does everyone think of inside axels? Do you think they are easier then regular axels? I'm taking a jump&spin class over the summer and we have skaters from all different FS levels. So far we've done a lot of axel excersizes and I learned the inside axel! Well I kept two footing it, but still, I haven't even done a lutz yet! And the loop is my total nemesis jump.

[Chico]

TashaKat,

I agree on the axel being a big brain thing on difficulty. I worked on the axel for weeks with my coach, many years ago when I didn't know what an axel was, and I worked at it like any other jump I had learned. And then, someone informed me about the axel. Next lesson I questioned my coach. She just stood there saying, "NO, no, no." I take it she was quietly sneaking into this jump. My previous questions had been ignored and talked fast over. Once told, I got worried. Before that I had been cluesless and unafraid. I've never been concerned about bunny hops. Saying that, I've seen some serious head bangers on this skill. One guy went off in an abulance! Beware of bunnies. =-)

Chico

[MQSeries]

What does everyone think of inside axels? Do you think they are easier then regular axels? I'm taking a jump&spin class over the summer and we have skaters from all different FS levels. So far we've done a lot of axel excersizes and I learned the inside axel! Well I kept two footing it, but still, I haven't even done a lutz yet! And the loop is my total nemesis jump.

The inside axel is harder than a regular axel. I wish I can do an inside one. I have always wanted to do the inside axel-2sal combination but can't get the inside axel to take off.

[vesperholly]

I have always wanted to do the inside axel-2sal combination but can't get the inside axel to take off.
I think you mean one-foot axel. They are often confused. Think of it as defined by the entry edge instead of landing edge.

Regular axel - LFO take-off, CCW rotation 1.5x and RBO landing edge.
One foot axel - LFO take-off, CCW rotation 1.5x and LBI landing edge.
Inside axel - RFI take-off, CCW rotation 1.5x and RBO landing edge.

Jill Trenary and Emily Hughes both have done one-foot axels to triple sals, so did another mid-range skater at US Nationals in the not-too-distant past but I'm blanking on who (Amber Corwin?). I have rarely seen inside axels and they're usually part of a footwork sequence like walleys.

[MQSeries]

Oh you're right. I was confusing inside axel with a one-foot axel.

I would say inside axel is easier and regular axel. My right leg is stronger than my left. So it's no big deal for my right leg to spring me up in the air and rotate for the inside axel. The one problem I have with the normal axel is taking off in a way that will allow me to transfer my weight over to the right side and rotate around that side. I tend to feel my weight somewhere in the middle of my body on the axel.

[EM_skate]

Hey there!

I've been working on the axel on and off for about 2 months now, but i think i'm going to put my all into it. Today on ice, i get into the air and either my arms are flying, or my arms are fine and my free leg is not pulling through enough. I got up in the air a couple times but end up falling half way the way through. My coach has been teaching me and making me continuasly do the waltz-backspin and i've been doing that and it's hepled quite a bit. Same with the waltz-loop. I just try not to be afraid when attempting it too lol.
Off ice today i landed the axel. It wasn't that great, and i think i cheated it a bit, but it felt good knowing it was going somewhere. lol. I could never do them before.