Liberty Summer Comp

[gardana]

Anyone going?

It looks like it is going to be a huge(as always) competition.

Last year-Johnny Weir & Andrei Griazev competed, but I don't think they're going to be there this year.

Nevertheless, it usually has many of the top non-seeded skaters and a lot of "unknowns"

[blue_iceprinces]

Just wondering if there was an entry list up? Like to see who's competing!

[Sylvia]

No, there isn't an official entry list online, but here's what I've managed to compile for senior/junior through a variety of sources... this is unofficial and incomplete, and there's no guarantee that all of the skaters listed will be competing this week.

Senior Men: Ryan Bradley, Mauro Bruni, Derrick Delmore, Daniel Lee, Dennis Phan, Shaun Rogers, Scott Smith, Jason Wong, Canada's Shawn Sawyer (SP only)...

Senior Ladies: Felicia Beck, Louann Donovan, Amanda Evora, Kimmie Meissner, Sarah Stone, Alexandra Tregre, Megan Williams-Stewart...

Senior Pairs: Baca/S. Pottenger (new), Evora/Ladwig, Jordan/Barrett, Kuban/Ibarra (new), Phibbs/McPherson, Canada's Dube/Davison...

Junior Men: Jeremy Abbott, Jeremy Barrett, John Coughlin, Casey McCraw, Steven Pottenger, Lenny Raney, Daniel Raad, Craig Ratterree, Douglas Razzano, Michael Solonoski, Traighe Rouse, David Weintraub...

Junior Ladies: Alyssa Curran, Kristi Hewitt, Mariel Miller, Megan Oster, Sandra Rucker, Danielle Shepard, Christine Zukowski...

Junior Pairs: Miller/Brubaker, Schmidt/C. Pottenger, Seitz/Seitz, Smith/Chitwood, Galleher/Gaumond (new), Vlassov/Meekins?...

Link to the event schedule: http://www.libertyskating.com/Lib2004ScheduleEvents.html

One of the competition organizers has said that results "will be available on the Liberty website each day (if all goes well)." The website is http://www.libertyskating.com

[newfieskates]

Where is the competition to? What levels compete there?

[Sylvia]

Where is the competition to? What levels compete there?

This is a major U.S. club (non-qualifying) competition in Newark, Delaware, starting tonight and running through Saturday. Levels run from No Test to Senior. I've heard that Code of Points will be tested for the senior events.

[newfieskates]

OK thanks. Also do you know how to start your own thread? I dont know how?! PLEASE HELP!

[evie464]

A lot of my friends and my coach are going from my rink, but only one senior skaters... most are already qualified for the grand prix and are spending their time focusing on their programs, not competition. Do you guys think its better to skip a competition and practice/rest, or go to a competition and get the performance experience?

Have fun at Liberty, if you're going!

~*EVIE*~

[falula]

Results???? :) PLEEZ let somebody have results!

[cashcow]

I didn't go yesterday(Tuesday) but I heard the Intermediate comp was a farce. Did anyone see this to include the results?

[haribobo]

RESULTS AND REPORT from Wednesday, 7/14 at Liberty Open-
The Pond Ice Arena. Newark, DE

JUNIOR MEN (some really great skating here!!!)
1. T. Rouse- 2ax, 3r (fall out), 3z-2t. Spins fast and great positions, just fantastic, great footwork, speed and presentation great. A complete, strong, and very high-quality performance all the way around. This guy is amazing and fun to watch! Music was Winter by Bond.

2. T. Steenberg- 3z (hand down) in to 2t, 3r, 2ax. Fast skater! Footwork ok, camel had small balance check/wobble. Good spins, great use of arms, good pres and choreo. Strong skate to Hernando's Hideaway.

3. S. Elefante- 3r great, fall on 3z, 2ax good. Straight line footwork seemed somewhat simple, but circular footwork was great with lots of good stuff in there, spins ok. Good complete skate. Scary movie music.

4. S. Pottenger- 3z-2t, fall on 3r, 2ax good. Spins ok could use more speed, nice sit spin though, footwork ok, overall speed could be improved. Good spread eagle move. Lounge-type music.

5. J. Miller- 3z-2t, 3r (stepout), 2ax. Spins ok, footwork good but straight line steps could have more speed. He's looking like a more complete and mature skater this season, much improved from previous seasons. A stylish performance to rock music.

6. C. Ratterree- 3z (2ft?)-2t, 3r (stepout), 2ax. Nice spins, great expression, amazing circular footwork sequence. Same program to Zorro that he's been using for a few seasons, but it's such a great one (music + skating) that I never get tired of seeing it!

7. S. Carriere- 3z (bad turnout)- 3t (fall, but good for trying it), 3r (fall, bounced off his blade after landing it), 2ax good. I saw him do a clean 3z-3t in warmup...Great spins, very good footwork, great skate besides the jumps. Shaft was the music.

8. D. Razzano- 3r (fall), 3z (fallout)-2t, 2ax. Nice camel, good sit spin, footwork fine. Greek or folk music?

9. J. Abbott- 3ax (fall), 1r, 2ax (turnout/hand down). Trademark gorgeous spins, great footwork including a nice twizzle at the end, expressive, great skater with good speed.

10. M. Solonoski- 3ax (fall, but solid attempt), 3r good, 2ax (fall). Gorgeous spins positions, good footwork, nice moves and choreo to Bond by Kismet, great in character of the music.

11. C. McCraw- 3z (fall), 3r (slight turn), 2ax. Sit change sit good, circ footwork, nice turns and edges throughout the program, solid, high quality skating. Music was All I Ask of You from Phantom, or something like that.

12. D. Raad- 2ax, 3z (wonky, 2ft, turn)-2t, 3r (hop on end). Good program, great footwork sequences, good spins. Nice choreo and slides, he has a sincerity about the way he skates and presents which I love. Music was Safri Duo, Played A Live, or whatever its called, that Yagudin used for his last eligible short program.

13. L. Anderson- fall on 3z, 2ax good, 2r. Combo spin nice and fast. Nice sit spin, couldn't see much in the way of footwork but I may have been distracted. Had some moments of great speed. Tango music.

14. M. McLeod- 3z (poss cht) -2t, 3r (und./2feet), 2ax. Unusually artistic camel with a sort of arched upward flying position, spins very nice, nice footwork section with leap in it. Could use more a lot more speed overall, but his program is a good one, really nice presentation.

15. D. Weintraub- 3ax (und., 2ft, hd), 3r (kind of 2 footed balance check, no runout, nearly fell), 2ax (turnout). Sit change sit nice low positions. Footwork could use more speed. Techno music.

16. J. Jones- 2ax, 3t (fall), 2r. Footwork ok but had a slip or two. Spins gorgeous, nice speed in them. Nice look on the ice, stylish with good moves and choreo. Had to stop with a costume issue towards the end but upon restarting got right back into it and did some lovely spins to close.

17. T. Toth- 2ax great, 3s? fall, 2r (fallout), camel lil slip but still good, leap in footwork fell, overall footwork could use more difficulty compared to other guys in the field. Nice scratch spin at end. Bolero from Moulin Rouge. The mistakes kind of took away from the magic of the performance, unfortunately. He really sparkled in the SP at regionals last season, I hope to see him have more moments like that in the future. This is a great program, I really think he has the right feel for it when he's on.

18. P. Kozodoy- (I must have missed something here...). 3z-2t, 3r, 2ax. Fly sit good, camel quite slow, good footwork. I think he may have done some wrong elements, cause I was thinking he'd be in the top 6. I need to start paying attention to what kinds of spins people are doing. Either that or I misidentified his jumps. Fun program, nice spins at the end and then fell, ending up on the ice, not sure if this was intentional.

19. J. Clements- 3r (2ft), 3t (fall), 1.5 ax (came out on 2 feet). Other elements ok, good looking guy, skated to Jazz music.

JUNIOR LADIES SP GROUP C
1. Hacker- 3r-2r, 2ax, 2r. Great 3 turns to open, amazing spins, good spirals, excellent skater, a thrill to watch. Music was something like Secret Garden.

2. Curran- 2r, 3s-2t, 2ax (poss. 2ft). Fly cam good, very good spirals with a slide-skid one in there for a nice change, lots of choreo in this program, fast combo spin. Great job!

3. M. Miller- fall on 3s, 2ax good, 2r. Nice fast spin, some cool spin positions, spirals ok. I'd like to see a little more choreography going on in this program-- Nicole Bobek did this fun jazzy music sometime in the 96-98 years and blew the roof off the place. She's a strong skater and is doing a pretty good job but with a little more work this program could be amazing, the music calls for fun!

4. Rucker- fall on 3z, 2r, fall on 2ax. Nice spins and spirals, fast and pretty layback spin, impressive. Forrest Gump.

5. Hewitt- 2ax (to), 3s (maybe und)-2t, 2r. Unique cool layback position.
6. Van Patten- 2ax (so), 3s?-1t, 2r. Nice spins, good footwork, great choreography and an ethereal quality. Coaches are P. Hill, Johnny Weir, Karl Kurtz. Spartacus.
7. Champion- 2f (2ft)-2t, 2ax, 3r (fall), great spins, good speed, great use of arms. Addams Family.
8. Boulanger- 2r, 3s? to-2t, 2.0 ax fall, very nice layback, good spirals and presentation to Black Magic Woman.
9. Troutman- 3r (hd) to 2t, waxel, 2r. Nice layback, good spirals, good program, nice hand moves in footwork expressive of Harry Potter type music.
10. Bird- 2r was clean, nice.
11. Russo- good 2r, had a nice spin. Phantom of the Opera.
12. Agler- 2z. good layback, amazing spiral positions, very nice spin positions. Leyenda by Vanessa Mae.

[haribobo]

This is what Sylvia typed for results-- we were typing up the same thing at the same time! :)

"JUNIOR MEN’S SP: Rouse (straight 1sts in new program to Bond's Winter), Steenberg, Elefante, Pottenger, J. Miller, Ratterree, Carriere, Razzano, Abbott, Solonoski, McCraw, Raad, Lars Anderson (CAN), McLeod, Weintraub, J. Jones, Toth, Kozodoy, Clements (scratched: Childers, Coughlin, Hernandez, C. Pennington, Raney, Serpe).

JUNIOR LADIES SP GROUP A: Shepard, Oster, Houston, Choi-Smith, Peng, Zinsmeister, Tahtouh, Candela, Jennie Lee, Boutwell, McMurtry, Wiggett, H. Alexander, Esposito, Kuban, Denny

JUNIOR LADIES SP GROUP B: Zukowski, J. Richards, McSwain, Oberstar, C. Kinney, Lahurd, Willey, K. Moore, Manzouri, Barreto, Panzera, Ellis, Grotticelli

JUNIOR LADIES SP GROUP C (last event of Wed.--: K. Hacker, A. Curran, M. Miller, Rucker, Hewitt, Van Patten, Champion, Boulanger, Troutman, Bird, Russo, Agler

NOVICE MEN’S SP FINAL: Kanallakan, Andrew Gonzalez, Rippon, Corvasce, Nuss, Dornbush, Chau, Oi, Frye-Patch, Vays, Tran, Alex Allen

NOVICE LADIES SP GROUP A: B. Rosenthal, Aaryn Smith, A. Wagner, Minna Lee, Tran, Lawver, Pflumm, Bass, Sacks, Pierson, T. Lucas, Yankowskas, Klinker, C. Nguyen

NOVICE LADIES SP GROUP B: M. Hyatt, Flatt, S. Jordan, Aigner, Bulanhagui, Gengler, Vlassov, Kiang, Feinerman, D. Fritz, J. Bloom, Wetterich

NOVICE LADIES SP GROUP C: Boisuloi (CAN), Lecheler, C. Davis, C. Baxter, R. DeRita, Basile, O’Neill, Kadis-Strauss, Fabian, Milewski, Zawojski, Paolini, A. Adams, Bray

NOVICE LADIES SP GROUP D: K. Stricker, B. Hatch, Cammarata, Aziz, J. Crenshaw, Thirawattanapan, Shiring, Pyun, Flood, Hoptman

NOVICE LADIES SP GROUP E: Rizo, Brock, Syken, Dross, Martino, Iskrenova, Franczak, Tansomboon, Bartholomay, D. Lynn, Dabney, Hucek, Lusk, Carfagno, Vaccariello

INTERMEDIATE LADIES FS GROUP A: A. Gilles, Vicari, S. DeRita, Fontanetta, Liu, Steward, Clugston, Stern, S. Stricker, O. Brock, Friedenberg, Greenhalgh, McNamara, Stockunas, Zoretic, Shears

INTERMEDIATE LADIES FS GROUP B: Musademba, Mozer, Franzese, S. Young, Rowley, Larsen, Lucivero, J. Lopez, Gaff, Crenshaw, Vaillant, Nemeth, Nagode, Shortridge, Nicholson (scratched: Sherry Barnes)

INTERMEDIATE LADIES FS GROUP C: Jane Ruan (SC of NY), Girard, H. Ho, Gervasio, McKenzie Jackson, S. Connolly, Petursson, Black, Raver, Gumbinner, Rittenhouse, Matz, Moses, Tyler, Waldschmidt, Zietara, Phillips-Brown

INTERMEDIATE LADIES FS GROUP D: Hoeg, Volpicelli, E. D’Agostino, C. Coleman, Lena Johnson, Millet, Klinker, Kreger, Fenn, M. Collins, Finkbiner, Meis

INTERMEDIATE LADIES FS GROUP E: Mozuch, Aaron, Earley, Riggins, Levenson, Yingst, Allen, Goodreau, Stier, Greene, Sund, Zysset, Carlson

INTERMEDIATE LADIES FS GROUP F: Byrne, M. Smith, Syme, Shaub, A. Smith, Batterman, Karimzada, Weinstein, Pickard, Klopman, Wright, Simpson, Socolovsky

INTERMEDIATE LADIES FS GROUP G (Tue.): Shioda, Lanser, H. Alexander, Bibbs, J. Wong, M. Nguyen, Cappeto, J. Seitz, Fredin, Veloso, Messerschmidt, Olimpio, Emser, Vick, T. Taylor, S. Davis

INTERMEDIATE MEN SP GROUP A: Mahbanoozadeh, Millet, Franzese, Scognamiglio, Copely, Dmitriev, Sun, Ting, Crawford, Silecky, Nakazawa, Papale

INTERMEDIATE MEN SP GROUP B: Laboy, Dyer, Miner, Lo, Zahradnicek, Dang, Carter, Kuo, Goujjane, Berman, Wenger"

[Lenny2]

I didn't go yesterday(Tuesday) but I heard the Intermediate comp was a farce. Did anyone see this to include the results?


What do you mean by this?

[cashcow]

The group I'm referring to is ...

INTERMEDIATE LADIES FS GROUP G (Tue.): Shioda, Lanser, H. Alexander, Bibbs, J. Wong, M. Nguyen, Cappeto, J. Seitz, Fredin, Veloso, Messerschmidt, Olimpio, Emser, Vick, T. Taylor, S. Davis

I understand that at least one of the girls skated a flawless performance. No falls, no stumbles, everything cleanly landed and executed yet she placed out of the top ten. Whereas, one of the girls who placed within the top five fell on one of the required elements and did not execute all of the elements cleanly. I also understand that many of the onlookers(competitors' Mothers included) were in shock of the results and acknowledged that the clean skater should've been placed within the top three if not 1st place.

Naturally, this is second hand information as I was not there and so I ask again if anyone witnessed this "farce". My source is reliable and will obtain the entire group's performance on DVD for me to see with my own eyes. If it is that cut and dry and was not contested....I will be amazed.

Why am I so intrigued by this? I have a young daughter who is very interested in skating but I am leary about unfair judging and the impact it may have on her emotions should she pursue this. She will be taught to deal with and accept defeat but I doubt she nor I could handle blatant misgivings such as this if this is indeed the case.

[Ellyn]

The group I'm referring to is ...

INTERMEDIATE LADIES FS GROUP G
<snip>
I understand that at least one of the girls skated a flawless performance. No falls, no stumbles, everything cleanly landed and executed yet she placed out of the top ten. Whereas, one of the girls who placed within the top five fell on one of the required elements and did not execute all of the elements cleanly.

This is a free skate, so there aren't required elements with deductions for errors the way there are in the short program.

Were your sources taking into account the difficulty of all the elements (jumps, spins, steps, etc.) and the quality of the completed elements and the basic skating? All that counts just as much as "clean" vs. "fall."

[cashcow]

This is a free skate, so there aren't required elements with deductions for errors the way there are in the short program.

Were your sources taking into account the difficulty of all the elements (jumps, spins, steps, etc.) and the quality of the completed elements and the basic skating? All that counts just as much as "clean" vs. "fall."

From what I understand...Yes.

[skatgfan]

I guess that's why they sell so many videotapes at competitions like this :) .

I wasn't there, so I can't comment (perhaps you shouldn't either if you didn't see the competition), but from what I have seen at this level, the skaters who perform lower-level jumps 'clean' don't do as well in the scoring as the ones who try double axels, etc. I don't know if this is the case here, but if history is any precident, the judging at Liberty is about the best in the country.

My skater (unfortunately) placed almost exactly where I would have put her at last year's competition, and I really didn't disagree with the placements. Also, they usually have a critique after the LP - what did the judges say about the skating and why they placed the skater so low?

If the 'placements' of each of the judges in the flight are pretty consistent, I'd bet my cash that the skater was judged fairly - perhaps the skater needs to either add more difficult elements to their program or their coach needs to work on bigger jumps with them.

Crazy sport, huh? :) Good luck!

[cashcow]

I guess that's why they sell so many videotapes at competitions like this :) .

Hmmmm...never thought about controversy as being a possible video sales marketing ploy....nahhh...couldn't be :??

I wasn't there, so I can't comment (perhaps you shouldn't either if you didn't see the competition), but from what I have seen at this level, the skaters who perform lower-level jumps 'clean' don't do as well in the scoring as the ones who try double axels, etc. I don't know if this is the case here, but if history is any precident, the judging at Liberty is about the best in the country.

I was only posting what I was told and attempting to verify by other eyewitness accounts if they exist via this forum. I should have tape(DVD) in hand within a week or two and will definitely take note of each skater's level of difficulty on each of the jumps/elements for I really do not know at this time. I also expect better judging from Liberty compared to local competitions .. so to hear this is indeed a surprise to me.

My skater (unfortunately) placed almost exactly where I would have put her at last year's competition, and I really didn't disagree with the placements. Also, they usually have a critique after the LP - what did the judges say about the skating and why they placed the skater so low?

Got me...Are these critiques open or closed session as I've never been to one?

If the 'placements' of each of the judges in the flight are pretty consistent, I'd bet my cash that the skater was judged fairly - perhaps the skater needs to either add more difficult elements to their program or their coach needs to work on bigger jumps with them.?

DVD tells no lies...nor does my source but it's always good to have confirmation....hence my original post.

Crazy sport, huh? :) Good luck!

I'm just getting my feet wet in all this...as to whether I want to swim or not...well...this will help me in some regard to decide. Thanks for your candidness..I do appreciate it.

[Lenny2]

This was actually a short program group, not a freeskate group. All of the intermediate freeskate groups skated on Wednesday. The Tuesday night intermediate short program group was for juvenile skaters who were skating up for the intermediate short and had not also entered the intermediate freeskate.

Keep in mind that the short program has other required elements aside from jumps, including spins and footwork. Presentation also counts. Also, what the spectators saw as "clean" jumps may not have been judged as "clean" by the more experienced judges.

No sense in getting all worked up about placements in this sport. This is, after all, a judged sport. It the skater cannot find sufficient satisfaction in a good performance, then he/she might as well find another sport. There will be plenty of times when he/she is placed higher or lower than he/she feels is deserved. The satisfaction has to come from within. This isn't the Olympics, after all, and no one is winning any prize money. We teach our skater to hold her head up high no matter where she places and to try to feel good about it so long as she feels she skated her best that day. She can't help but feel disappointed if she feels that the judges placed her lower than she deserved. But, her goal is to be a competitive senior lady one day--all this stuff along the way are just experiences to that end. If she wins a competition here and there, great! If she comes in last now and then, well, we hope she learns that life goes on. it's just so embarrassing when people make a fuss about placements.

[cashcow]

This was actually a short program group, not a freeskate group. All of the intermediate freeskate groups skated on Wednesday. The Tuesday night intermediate short program group was for juvenile skaters who were skating up for the intermediate short and had not also entered the intermediate freeskate.

Keep in mind that the short program has other required elements aside from jumps, including spins and footwork. Presentation also counts. Also, what the spectators saw as "clean" jumps may not have been judged as "clean" by the more experienced judges.

No sense in getting all worked up about placements in this sport. This is, after all, a judged sport. It the skater cannot find sufficient satisfaction in a good performance, then he/she might as well find another sport. There will be plenty of times when he/she is placed higher or lower than he/she feels is deserved. The satisfaction has to come from within. This isn't the Olympics, after all, and no one is winning any prize money. We teach our skater to hold her head up high no matter where she places and to try to feel good about it so long as she feels she skated her best that day. She can't help but feel disappointed if she feels that the judges placed her lower than she deserved. But, her goal is to be a competitive senior lady one day--all this stuff along the way are just experiences to that end. If she wins a competition here and there, great! If she comes in last now and then, well, we hope she learns that life goes on. it's just so embarrassing when people make a fuss about placements.

That is certainly one way of looking at it....thanks for your opinion.

[skatgfan]

The critiques take place immediately after the event. All the skaters and their coaches file into a room and a couple of judges go through each skater's program in front of all the other skaters....what they liked, what needs improvement, missed elements, etc. There's also an opportunity to ask the judges a question or two about their program.

If the judge's marks for the skaters were pretty consistent, I think that says something....every once in a while there's a competition where the marks are all over the place, but in these 'larger' competitions with most of the top-level judges in the country attending, you'll usually see pretty consistent results.

[Skatewind]

Here is the link to the actual results cashcow was discussing:

http://www.libertyskating.com/2004ResultsLadies2.html#ILSPgroupG

It was a SP event, not LP, so it looks like cashcow already got some misinformation from mothers or other people who saw the event. A review of the actual judges marks doesn't show that much out of line in the lower half of the skaters. There are many more differences regarding placement in the upper half.

Since this is the first level requiring the SP, the skaters are inexperienced & do not have the level of awareness regarding some of the differences between the SP & LP that might cause them problems with the marks. Some things I have seen before in Intermediate SP that I know have affected placements include: Skater not completing the footwork sequence (especially for circular footwork), missing a jump & then trying it again later (may work for LP but it's an added element in SP), repeating the required double jump again in the jump combo, & finishing over the time. Then there are always at least two or three skaters every year who have a wrong element included somewhere in the program, or the music cut wrong. One time I saw an intermediate who skated very nicely must have skated at least another 20 seconds after the ref blew the whistle & the music was still playing the whole time. Someone obviously made a huge mistake editing her music. Intermediate is the level where skaters learn how to compete in the SP & sometimes they have to take the good with the bad.

[skatgfan]

A couple of the judges (2 & 4, I think) had some screwey ordinals compared to the rest, but it wasn't any worse than what I've seen before.

Regardless, I agree that it didn't look all that out of line as a whole.

One of the 'problems' with skating is that it can be very subjective (missed elements and wrong music time notwithstanding). It's one of the real challenges of the sport. It doesn't mean that the judging is 'no good', just that there's no goals to count or finish line to cross to determine the winner.

The cream almost always rises to the top in all these competitions, and the skaters that finish 3-7th always think they should have placed higher (because they did skate well). *sigh*

Good luck!

[Debbie S]

I already posted this at Unseen Skaters, but I thought I'd ask here as well. Does anyone know the starting order for Senior Ladies FS tomorrow afternoon? And does anyone know if Kimmie Meissner made it in? I heard from an unofficial source that the field was expanded to 32.

[bunghodog]

Yes I read Kimmie got first and skated great.

[3Loop3Loop]

Any more reports or results?

[bunghodog]

http://www.unseenskaters.com/board/viewforum.php?f=29