S/P article

[Debbie S]

from today's NY Times, about issues dealing with fame, agents, not being on tour, etc.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/23/sports/othersports/23PELL.html?todaysheadlines=&pagewanted=print&posi tion=top


I had to laugh when I read this:
[quote:cd935741f7]
Had they joined Tom Collins's tour, Champions on Ice, they could have earned close to $1 million this summer. Not only did they lose financially, but Collins said they also lost precious visibility.

"They're out of the loop completely now," he said. "They've disappeared. They could have done very, very well, but now it's too late. The Olympics are a very short-lived thing. After six months, if a skater or skaters don't promote themselves, it's very difficult. I don't think they can ever recoup what they've lost."
[/quote:cd935741f7]

Gee, you don't suppose Tom's being just a [i:cd935741f7]little[/i:cd935741f7] biased, do you? I hardly think the public, and certainly not the skating fans that buy tix to shows, are going to forget about them. And someone needs to remind Tom Collins that his is not the only tour for skaters to get exposure.

I did miss seeing S/P at COI, but I'm very much looking forward to seeing them on SOI.

[trixie]

Coming from him it does sound a little self serving, but that does not make it less than true. I am not privy to the details of their negotiations, but I was concerned for them this spring. It did seem there was a less than stellar plan in place. Somebody dropped the ball big time. I understand that Mr. Browning was instumental in getting them back on track and the SOI deal. Seems a lIMG had to do was sit back and wait, then pick up the pieces. All very odd since these skaters have not , in the past, been a vision of athletes who are pushed around. The move to the Glenora, as exhibit A.

I dunno, it may come out later what happened.

[trixie]

Sorry, re: above that should say "are not pushed around". For some reason they were getting bad advice and for a while were listening to it.

[rack]

Thank you for posting the link.

I understand that the reason why S/P and Todd Eldredge can't skate in SOI and remain Olympic eligible, while B/S and Alexei Yagudin can is because of their country's FSA rules, but can someone explain to me why Canada and the US forbid it? I can't figure out how it benefits the US and Canada to keep skaters out of Worlds and the Olympics (especially when these skaters are relatively young and healthy recent world champions).

If someone knows the answer, I'd really appreciate it.

[Debbie S]

rack, I'm not sure Canada forbids it (B/K have done Canadian SOI for years) - the reporter may have just gotten confused by the fact that they're going to be touring during the competitive season, plus that they've already announced they're "turning pro." AFAIK, the U.S. is the only (major skating) country that doesn't allow its skaters to do SOI and be eligible, and I think this has something to do w/ Tom Collins/COI's sponsorship deal w/ the USFSA.

However, Todd Eldredge got some kind of exemption where he can be in SOI and not lose his eligibility. I'm sure that if other big-name skaters, like Michelle (not that she's joining SOI any time soon), wanted similar exemptions for SOI, the USFSA would provide it. This exemption only applies to SOI, though, not pro comps - Todd has said he's not sure he wants to lose his eligibility by doing them this year.

[MegT]

I was somewhat concerned for them as well in the spring with all the talk of their own tour. I really didn't think there was room for yet another skating tour, or enough elite skaters to make it worthwhile. However I do think Tom Collins is a little biased and seeing as they're currently appearing in ads across the continent and continue to get mentions in newspapers and on talk shows, I hardly think they've been forgotten. SOI will be good for them. I was hoping thhey'd go that route instead of COI. Mostly because COI doesn't tour Canada but also because the older big names on CSOI i particular are starting to leave and the tour needs new faces.

[olivia]

As trixie pointed out, while Collins definitely sounds self-serving, he's not entirely off the mark. S&P did miss out on substantial earnings they could have made on tour following the Olympics, which is arguably the most visible and profitable time for figure skaters. It's a time to solidify and grow a fan base. It's the perfect time to make an positive and lasting impression on hard-core fans and every-4-years fans. I disagree that S&P have fallen off the radar (especially for the hard-core fans), so that comment by Collins was an exaggeration, IMO, but I would say S&P missed a valuable opportunity.

O-

[jcspkbfan]

I hope posting a link to another forum isn't violating copyright laws, but someone posted the entire article at S&P's official message board (just in case it's no longer accessible at the New York Times site--I'm not sure how long they keep their articles online):

http://www.sale-pelletier.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=12&t=000164

Umm, since when have B&S toured with COI this spring? And I guess Tom Collins forgot about Elvis Stojko when he said no skater could put on their own tour...even though COI doesn't come to Canada and Elvis' tour is the closest equilvalent we have up here.

You know, the more I read about Mike Burg and Craig Fenech, the more relieved I am that S&P are no longer associated with them. :D

And I may be in the minority here, but I actually think S&P not touring and keeping a lower profile since the Olympics could turn out to be a [b:c063beaa94]good[/b:c063beaa94] thing. Yes, I'm disappointed they decided not to tour (I've wanted to see them with Canadian SOI for at least two years now--LOL!), but considering all the complaints from people saying how sick they were of seeing S&P everywhere during the Olympics and how much publicity the judging scandal got, hopefully once they (and B&S) return to the ice, people will begin appreciating both teams for their [b:c063beaa94]skating[/b:c063beaa94] once again! Same thing for B&S...

Not to mention neither team would be able to get much of a vacation if they decided to do the entire COI tour--they'd only have a couple of weeks rest in between the time COI ends and the time SOI rehearsals begin.

I'm also confused as to how skating in SOI would cost S&P their eligibility--Kurt, Josée, B&E, Elvis, and now B&K all skated in the Canadian tour for years before turning pro. Would the rules be any different for the US tour?? Not that it probably matters in S&P's case since there doesn't seem to be too many other unsanctioned pro events scheduled this season where they could officially lose their eligibility, anyway! :(

Trixie, where did you hear Mr. Browning (I'm assuming you mean Kurt??) helped S&P get on track to renegotiate their deal with SOI?

And speaking of Kurt, I seem to remember Tom Collins saying something along the lines of, "If you think Kurt can sell one skating ticket south of the border, you're crazy," after Kurt stopped skating in the Tom Collins tour in 1990. As far as I know, Kurt didn't perform in another skating tour in the States until joining US SOI in 1994, and his popularity south of the border hasn't seemed to suffer much from that. :D I only hope Tom's prediction about S&P turns out to be equally wrong!

[gandalf]

Considering the amount of attention they received in SLC, and the backlash that was beginning to build, some time out of the spotlight may have been the best thing for S&P. I mean, it's not like they needed more visibility.

Personally I'm really looking forward to seeing what S&P and B&S do in SOI - hopefully they have at least one "all pairs" number.

[loveskating]

On the money issue, sure S&P lost something I guess.

But I don't understand why COI feels so competitive with SOI...they are really so different, and I used to go to both of them every year, and for different reasons.

I got turned off to COI because of Candeloro stripping (NOT a family show therefore) and some other similar things, didn't like the whole incident with Yags, and it seemed COI was getting all nationalist and showcasing US skaters instead of the "champions" as it previously had. But that was internal to COI, not because of SOI or anything like that.

Can anyone explain this?

[trixie]

Sorry, can't divulge any sources, so I should not have even mentioned it.

It may have been S and P's choice to keep a low profile , but I doubt it. It was simply a handling fiasco. A little backlash from the overexposure was a scary thing for newly minted stars. however.

I was stunned to find out who was representing them at the Games. It is a miracle that it went as well as it did in the direst aftermath of the event results. That credit goes to Jacques Rogge, COA and a few other behind the scenes, highly placed individuals.

Now we can all look forward to a new start for them this season.

[trixie]

Just re-read the article again. Fenech didn't know or didn't care that he would never be able to get the venue dates / Any 15 year old who follows skating could have told him that. Safe to say most of us in Canada were more than skeptical, as it appears were Jamie and David.

Sounds as if they are having a restful summer, moving into a new house...wait ,that is oxymoronic, I know,...anyway, the missed COI tour is not the end of the world and they have their whole lives ahead of them.

[speedy]

I really had no interest in last year's SOI Tour...Kurt was about the only draw left for me. With S&P and Yagudin joining next year's show, I will definitely be there! COI was pretty good this summer but considering S&P, B&S, Yagudin, Todd, Sasha and Sarah were originally listed for our city when tix went on sale, then ended up dropping out of the tour or missing our show, it lost quite a bit of star power from what had originally been planned I'm sure.

[skatingfan3]

I'm sorry...$4,000 per show for a Olympic gold medalist (even it's pair) is simply too LOW! S&P is not just a flash-in-the pan pair. I think they made the right decision to rest for the summer (& hired a new agent) then to be underpaid! Of course, everyone's financial situation is different. I'm also glad they signed with SOI.

I really didn't know Collins said that about Kurt Browning...what a snob!! With the exception of the 2001-2002 season, I think SOI is a better show than COI - especially if you're talking about creatively. Look at Tara L., she's a better skater (artistically speaking) now than when she was an amateur.

Deborah

[jcspkbfan]

Trixie, I understand why you can't give any further details re. Kurt, but I still think it was a really nice gesture on his part.

The quote from Tom Collins came directly from Kurt's "Forcing The Edge" autobiography. But they were both inducted into the Canadian Figure Skating Hall of Fame a few years ago (along with Brasseur and Eisler) and from all accounts, acted pretty cordial towards each other (joking together, etc.) So hopefully any friction that existed between the two of them back then has since been resolved.

I knew pairs and ice dancers never earn as much money on tour as singles skaters, but I had no idea the difference was
[b:c2908a8e4f]that[/b:c2908a8e4f] great! If a North American Olympic champion pair like S&P can only earn $4,000 per show, I wonder what a lot of the Russian pairs and couples without world or Olympic titles are making? No wonder G&G were so concerned about money when they first joined SOI! If that figure means S&P would earn $4,000 [b:c2908a8e4f]each[/b:c2908a8e4f] as opposed to $4,000 between the two of them, it would be a little more fair...

[bleu]

Tom is cheap :(

Even a sequined male shirt cost over $4000.00 IMO.

Cheap guy.

[gracefulswan]

s/p were my fav. pairs...i was truly sorry to see them turn pro so soon. they could have been even more popular and won many more amateur competitions. i was hoping they'd compete up to the 2006 olympics. :( after all, they have only been skating together 2-3 years...

[jcspkbfan]

Even though S&P have only skated together as a team for four years, they've both been hanging around the senior eligible ranks, off and on, for almost a decade. Jamie competed at Olympics and Worlds for the first time with her former partner Jason Turner back in 1994; David competed at his first Worlds a year later in 1995 with his former partner Allison Gaylor.

S&P might have also been able to contend for a medal at 1999 Worlds (the very first season they skated together, before they teamed up with Lori Nichol to create Love Story) had David's back injury not forced them to miss the rest of the season after 1999 Canadians. :( As much as I would have loved to see them try for at least one more world title before turning pro (and who knows, they might still be able to do this if there aren't any unsanctioned events scheduled this year where they could compete and lose their eligibility--LOL!), I honestly never expected them to appear at the 2006 Olympics (even [b:43ad35aef9]before[/b:43ad35aef9] the whole judging scandal happened) just because they'd both been around the international scene so long (albeit with different partners).

[Scott]

I also am of the opinion that this pair turned pro too soon. They really needed more time in the amature level, particularly afer the olympic controversy. I would have preferred that they stay amature and come back to prove that they should have won that gold. Doing this would have been a powerful statement.

[gracefulswan]

i agree scott. i can't understand why the sudden change of heart. they had intended on staying amateur for a couple of years but then decided against it. i guess they must be burned out already.... :cry:

[RobinEgg]

Yuck. Who does he think he is? How does he think skaters still continue to skate and be adored years after they last won an eligible competition? I enjoyed seeing Barbie and Paul in person until they retired, and that didn't have anything to do with them and their last competition. I loved their skating and their personalities, as I adore Jamie & David's, Kurt and Josee, Brian and Scotty. I still, to this day, miss Oksana Baiul, and wish that her personal life had not taken control of her professional life, and was still able to skate as she loved to do. Losing visibility because they took a summer off? What a moron!

[memememe76]

They never intended to stay after this season. They were unsure, even prior to the Olympics.

Here's an article from [color=red:ecc0260f1f]January 2002[/color:ecc0260f1f]:

http://www.canoe.ca/Slam020110/ska_can6-sun.html

""We're not trying to tease people that we might retire. But after the Olympics and Worlds, we want to have a plan and it'll be our heart that makes the decision, not our bank account.''

[gracefulswan]

thanx for article. still, by all accounts they've no doubt disappointed many of their fans considering that many were sure they would have stayed till turino.....

[jcspkbfan]

There were also a couple of articles published shortly before the Olympics retiring from skating [i:cc1d28902d]altogether[/i:cc1d28902d] after last season--at least we'll still get to see them skate now that they've turned pro and joined SOI! :D

[erin_m]

I'll just chime in and say that while I was initially upset when J&D announced their decision to turn pro it didn't take me long to remember that they know what is best for them and even though I want to see them in a lot of competitions they have been competitive skaters for a long time and were probably ready for a change. Plus, this way I can go see them in SOI! :D

About the article, I really think that the summer off worked out in their best interests, even if it wasn't what they were planning in the first place. Everyone needs time to regroup after stressfull times and in any interviews and appearances they have made lately they have seemed very happy, which is great.

I also never thought very highly of Craig Fenech and was glad to hear that he was no longer their agent! Robert Steadward seems to be doing a great job for them.

[bleu]

Gracefulswan - don't worry. I too was upset in the begining but when I look back, I think they have done better than they thought they would do and are quite content to skate for themselves and their fans for the next four years. N.B. Jamie and David are really into their fans. Good things are coming. If you don't believe me, ask Erin_m :D

By the way Jamie and David are in skating today in IDAHO - Sun Valley.
Did anyone see them?

[Orable]

yes, they and B/S are headlining a show together at Sun Valley...I wonder if anyone went and would be so kind as to write a report :)

[erin_m]

They aren't headlining the event in Sun Valley together. E&A skated there a couple weekends ago and J&D are skating there tonight. I too would love reports if anyone was there.

[quote:d4b9d0ad52]Good things are coming. If you don't believe me, ask Erin_m[/quote:d4b9d0ad52]

bleu? Do I know you from the Salé and Pelletier message board?

[Orable]

ok, my bad. I was under the impression that all four were skating together tonight, but guess I was wrong...

[bleu]

Erin_M:

I saw you post the sale-pelletier addy here.

[erin_m]

Okay, that explains it! :D

[pilgrimsoul]

I'm not very impressed with Tom Collins. He views the skaters as commodities and only cares about the bottom line. And as far as his questioning S&P's decision to cool it for a while, I guess if you view it from merely a financial perspective, they have lost out on some cash. But I think taking a break was a wise long-term move for them. They were beginning to get overexposed. This way people aren't sick of them, and when they do step back in the spotlight, their career will pick up right where it left off. I don't think they'll suffer any loss of popularity just because they took a break. People will be curious to see what they do next.