Dealing with rink management

[Terri C]

I need help and input here!!
About a year ago, my rink was bought by a former pro hockey player. He promised the figure skating community to make the rink the best training facility in Virginia.
Since then we have seen the following:
1. Freestyle sessions cancelled with little, but mostly no notice!
2. Specialty classes being cancelled with the same M.O. as #1.
3. Ice not being cut in a timely fashion.
4. Coaches that are bringing in $$$ in way of commission and paying customers being treated like kindergarders.
5. Skating parents spending $$$ at the rink also being treated like kindergarders!

And the final kicker:
Freestyle walkon at $14.00 a hour, which here in SE VA is twice the price of the two competing area rinks. Sticks and pucks as well as Adult Hockey pick up is half the walk on price, but management considers that ice "public" whereas freestyle is "private"
Believe me, coaches and parents have gone to management with concerns and have gotten nowhere. :frus:

What would you do??

[the old gurl]

What would you do??Go to one of the competing rinks.

The owners will do what they will, and it appears skaters are getting the royal shaft. If there ARE *competing* rinks in the area, then go there.

[SK8sMom]

I agree...go to the competition if it is possible. You are lucky you have that option.

We had the similar problem at our rink. It was (notice the tense of the verb here) a beautiful facility, very convenient, with LOTS of potential. Unfortunately, the GM is a hockey coach, and although he is an excellent coach, he was a disaster as a GM. He would not address issues that arose, and when he finally was forced to respond, would become very confrontational. Employees were kept on not for their ability, but out of favoritism, and as a result I watched droves of customers being driven off. I believe the GM LIKED having the facility under-utilized....left lots of time for his teams to practice!! And they have been very successful. BUt alas, the 'goose that laid the golden egg' has been killed. The owner was tired of losing money, and when a major repair issue surfaced, he opted to sell the place instead of throwing more money at it. (He is a non-skater, purely an investor, and really did not know what was going on. Many parents tried to tell him, but as the saying goes 'there are none so blind as those who will not see). So, we are left driving for an hour in each direction to skate on crowded ice for more money. But at least we have that option...many of the Learn to Skate kids and those with two working parents are left with no transportation. It is very sad, and it WAS avoidable.

The upshot to my post is, if this situation continues, the skaters may find themselves w/o ice, and the manager may find himself unemployed!\
Best of luck to you!

[Terri C]

Sk8s Mom,
Your story makes me think we're from the same area!! :lol:

[skateflo]

Here is a thought you might want to consider if your rink is USFS - there now is a joint venture/collaboration between STAR (Serving The American Rinks) and the National Governing Bodies & hockey; USFS and USA Hockey. There are also (Star) State Ice Arena Manager's Associations. The common goal is to get a figure skating club in every rink. STAR has education classes on how to promote both types of skating in a rink. See if your state has such an association and a contact name that you can discuss this situation with. There is some info on the USFS site and STARrinks.com.

[SK8sMom]

Skateflo....thanks...we have a core group of hockey/FS parents/coaches that are working hard to get ice back in our area, and I know that they have been in contact with STARS. The problem is complicated (of course) by the repairs needed to the rink. Plus, a business has made an offer for the facility/land, and the owner has accepted it, and this business is NOT interested in managing an ice rink :-(

We continue to hope, and pray, as this area NEEDS a facility and under the right management it could flourish. The GOOD thing that has come out of this is the wonderful comradeship that has developed between the hockey/FS communities. This shouldnt be surprising, as really we have so much in common....most importantly, the ICE we need for each to pursue their chosen passion!

(Terri, I think you said you are in Virginia.....we are FAR away, but it seems some things are the same wherever you may go...)

[Terri C]

Skateflo,
Thanks for the idea. We are a ISI rink, but I'll look into it anyway.

[Spider68]

I have a figure skating daughter and a serious ice hockey playing son. Before my son started ice hockey, I too thought that "those hockey players" were taking away "our" ice. But, once my son started playing, I could see that rink management has to play a balancing act.

Weekday morning ice -- mostly freestyle since hockey players can't or won't wake up and practice before school.

Weekends -- time for the rink to turn some of those sheets over to ice hockey since you can probably collect more money from hockey leagues or "pond" time (typically $20 for drop-in).

I've heard many rink managers complain about figure skaters that "sneak" onto the ice and don't pay. Plus, you get the "elite" free-style sessions that limit the number of skaters to 8-10 on the ice at a time. Not a good return for the rink. You get a hockey clinic going, and with 40-45 players paying anywhere from $20-$25 an hour with a few rink-paid coaches on the ice, and the economics will tilt towards the ice hockey.

Don't even try to compete against skating schools. You figure running up to 8 classes on a sheet of ice with 8-10 little wanna-be's paying $15-$20 a lesson, and you have the rink making $1200-$1600 for 30 minutes (that's the rate in our area).

It's all about money. Somebody has to pay the electricity to keep that pond frozen.

[dbny]

The complaint is not that all the ice is going to hockey. Just about everyone knows that hockey is a rink's bread and butter. The management at this rink seems not to have dealt honestly with the figure skating community!

[Mrs Redboots]

When our rink was threatened with closure, representatives from all the disciplines - free, dance and hockey - got together to form a user group and to work together to save the rink. Our new management is a lot better than the old, who wanted to run the rink into the ground and lose it - the present people are committed to keeping it going, which does help. But the result of having a user group means that hockey and free/dancers finally begin to understand each other - and you will see lots of the free skaters coming to cheer "our" team when there is a home match!

[dooobedooo]

You need to note down all your complaints, and put them into a letter to management, emphasising the effect on profitability and morale at the rink. It is possible that the owner is not aware of some of the actions of his paid managers. Then you need to follow it up with a telephone call and visit.

If people just walk off to the next rink, how on earth will the owner ever find out what is going on, or indeed - how things should be done properly.

Think, discuss, inform, and fight, before you walk away!!

[Terri C]

Spider 68,
I understand what you are saying, but the bottom line is , WE WERE LIED TO!
It gets even better - at the same time that this guy bought the rink, we formed a USFS club. In January it was a act of Congress to get him to sign a six month contract for one hour of club ice a week.
Earlier this month, he tried without notifying the club board to cut our club ice to 50 minutes and still charge us for a hour. We told him that it's either a hour as specified in the contract,or we will get legal counsel, since he did not inform us prior (we found out when the freestyle schedule for April came out). Since we are enforcing the contract,which he signed he told us (verbally) that he will not negotiate another contract with us when the current contract runs out at the end of June.
In a meeting with the rink office manager (the rink owner's "puppet" so to speak") on Thursday that my coach and another coach had with her to discuss these issues. she told them that the letter was faxed to the club.
The club president did not get any letter at all, which leads me to believe that a letter never existed.

Spider 68, a question for you:
Is sticks and pucks always cheaper than freestyle??

[Terri C]

You need to note down all your complaints, and put them into a letter to management, emphasising the effect on profitability and morale at the rink. It is possible that the owner is not aware of some of the actions of his paid managers. Then you need to follow it up with a telephone call and visit.

If people just walk off to the next rink, how on earth will the owner ever find out what is going on, or indeed - how things should be done properly.

Think, discuss, inform, and fight, before you walk away!!

The owner is the one making all the calls- his office manager is his "puppet" - he pulls the strings and she says whatever he wants her to say!

[Isk8NYC]

Unfortunately, the only rinks where I've seen cooperation between the hockey and figure skating camps are those that have multiple ice surfaces. It's funny -- the people from those rinks can't fathom the conflict that goes on at other rinks. (BTW, I'm including all disciplines in "figure skating." I'm not trying to exclude dancers or others.)

Many parents will go out of their way to put their kids into hockey lessons, clinics, and on teams. That committment doesn't really exist for figure skating unless the parents were skaters themselves. The cost, time, and availability of ice keeps many figure skaters from pursuing skating. Because of the team atmosphere, hockey guarantees built-in attendance with spectators, thereby creating rink income with little effort.

Good figure skating sessions have fewer skaters than open hockey sessions, so they are more expensive on a per skater basis. By comparison, a 20-person open hockey session is more profitable to the rink than a 12-skater freestyle session if they charge $12 a head for both.

I haven't met many former hockey players who care about figure skating. Many of them only view the skating school as acceptable because it feeds the hockey clinics and teams. Plus, the old "figure skaters make holes in the ice" complaint gives them an attitude. (Of course, hockey does no damage: ever tried to skate past the grooves around the hockey circles?)

Having been a head-strong person dealing with management in the past, I will tell you that your best bet is to get some good representatives on your side. Look for skaters or parents that come from a hockey background. Then, they can work the "I know where you're coming from" angle. Look for the nicest people in your club, not the toughest. I have a friend that I swear was kissed by leprechauns. I can ask management for something 20 times, and get a sound "NO" each time. He can ask for the same thing once and it gets done. Frustrating for me, but it really does get the job done for the team, which is what matters in the end.

You could also check with the USFS or ISI local management. They may be able to plead your case with management.

To be on the safe side, you'll need to expand your skating sessions to other rinks, just in case you get shut out next season. That way, your club can continue.

It could be worse: we have no speedskating clubs/sessions within an hour of our house, although there are 8-10 rinks nearby.

[Skatewind]

Unfortunately, the only rinks where I've seen cooperation between the hockey and figure skating camps are those that have multiple ice surfaces. It's funny -- the people from those rinks can't fathom the conflict that goes on at other rinks. (BTW, I'm including all disciplines in "figure skating." I'm not trying to exclude dancers or others.)
Actually, one surface rinks run by the county or parks system generally offer both & are often mandated by the authority who governs them to offer programs for different types of skating. Generally speaking, it's whether the rink is privately or publicly owned that is the determing factor, not necessarily the number of surfaces.

[Terri C]

Just to give everyone here a update:
The letter did exist, but instead of out club getting a copy (which our club was refused to a copy by the rink office manager) the letter was faxed to USFS and the president of the neighbouring club. :evil:
On Wednesday of this past week the rink offered a "sale" on punchcards, going down from $130/$230 a piece to $100-$200. :lol: The sale was only for three days. I refused to buy one, for the reasons that the club was treated regarding the letter stated above and because of the unreliable schedule.
From what I've heard, almost everyone that skates there will be doing what I'm doing, going there for lessons and club ice ( we have it until the end of June) and skating at the two other rinks!

[Spider68]

Spider 68, a question for you:
Is sticks and pucks always cheaper than freestyle??

In our area (Southern California):

Pick-up time (go on the ice for an hour in full gear and hit pucks around or private lessons with a coach): $15-$20.

Pick-up hockey (go on the ice and play scrimmages with everyone that shows up, officials, and time-keeper): $25 each.

Hockey clinics (with anywhere from 50-70 kids on the ice) doing skating, stickhandling drills, 6-8 coaches on the ice to organize (you line up in 6 lines and go up and down the ice): $10-15 for the hour.

Free-style (45 minutes each): $8 each, max (on "elite ice sessions") of 10-12 skaters.

So, do the math and you can see that a rink would be more than happy to sell/delegate ice to hockey than a free-style session.

Hope this helps out. Believe me, I'm very sympathetic to the "fairness" issue of ice-time for figure skating and hockey, but being involved with my son's hockey club and trying to negotiate with the rink for practice ice, I've come to appreciate the economics that the owners face.

[Terri C]

In our area (Southern California):

Pick-up time (go on the ice for an hour in full gear and hit pucks around or private lessons with a coach): $15-$20

Free-style (45 minutes each): $8 each, max (on "elite ice sessions") of 10-12 skaters.

This is where the problem is! Sticks and pucks admission is only $7/8 per hour whereas the freestyle sessions are $14/ hour. Forget only 10-12 skaters on the ice, our owner wants 20 people on the ice for freestyle!

[Isk8NYC]

Actually, one surface rinks run by the county or parks system generally offer both & are often mandated by the authority who governs them to offer programs for different types of skating. Generally speaking, it's whether the rink is privately or publicly owned that is the determing factor, not necessarily the number of surfaces.
You're correct: when a central authority sets the tone of cooperation and respect, the number of ice surfaces do not matter. Many counties and cities do strive for a balance of power. However, there are several NYC Parks Department rinks that just rent ice. Period. These are different from parks' rinks that are administered by a central authority. The concessionaires that administer the rink are in charge and what they say, goes. These rinks have few public sessions and the figure skating sessions are club or school rentals for 2-3 hours a week. Everything else is hockey rentals, where the hockey clubs rent the ice and run the league.

I also remember someone from NJ saying that there's a rink that doesn't have ANY figure skating sessions. The people in charge believe that the "holes in the ice" are too much work to fix, so the rink doesn't allow figure skating. (I don't know if that's a parks' department rink.

I still believe the atmosphere is more cooperative when there are multiple ice surfaces because of the reduced competition for ice time. I base this on first-hand observation of how the staff speaks to each other and works together. But again, you're correct about the central authority setting the tone.