Fan Clubs as Phenom -- good or bad?

[loveskating]

Last night on my second viewing of Europeans, I noted that Peter showcased fans with pom poms and all dressed similarly...and there is some controversey over the way MK fans behaved at the most recent Nationals in such a visible manner. Peggy Fleming has made much of MK's fans attending her practices at various times, mostly at US Nationals. The Atlanta Journal carried a very favorable article about the MK Forum following Nationals.

Would it be a good idea for skating fans to be encouraged to visibly "proclaim" for their fovorite, to organize for their favorites, say by handing out T-shirts and pom poms outside?

I mean, honestly, if it is ok for one skater, then it has to be ok in general, doesn't it? Is that the way you want to see things go in skating in general?

What would be the overall result, do you think?

[icyboid]

As long as it doesn't come down to "Hey skata skata sssSALCHOW skata skata." or people singing along with the music, let them pass out whatever. :P

[peaches]

Originally posted by loveskating
Last night on my second viewing of Europeans, I noted that Peter showcased fans with pom poms and all dressed similarly...and there is some controversey over the way MK fans behaved at the most recent Nationals in such a visible manner. Peggy Fleming has made much of MK's fans attending her practices at various times, mostly at US Nationals. The Atlanta Journal carried a very favorable article about the MK Forum following Nationals.

Would it be a good idea for skating fans to be encouraged to visibly "proclaim" for their fovorite, to organize for their favorites, say by handing out T-shirts and pom poms outside?

I mean, honestly, if it is ok for one skater, then it has to be ok in general, doesn't it? Is that the way you want to see things go in skating in general?

What would be the overall result, do you think?

Pompons were originally on the banned list for US Nats because arenas did not want outside cheer material brought in. The MKFers then proceeded to harrass the LOC about the issue, as they'd bought the poms BEFORE checking to see if it was ok, and used Michelle, their donation to charity, and other things to get their way. I've said it before though, shame on anyone for giving into a bunch of freakin' fans. Bleh!

Things like poms and noise makers have long been used at Syncho skating competitions. Since many colleges have varsity teams, the parents and students who come to support bring in things to cheer for their teams. Skating clubs do the same for their Synchro teams. I think that's more appropriate as it's a team event, but I still think it's obnoxious. Still, team supporters usually all grouped together in the stands so if you don't want to be in the middle of poms flying, you can move as there's no assigned seats at those events.

Maybe the USFSA/ISU needs to put their foot down on what can and can't be brought in from outside sources and that would save security time as they've got check all bags, and it would save the sanity of those who might get stuck sitting beside some uber jerk.

[hiliairyh]

I have seen people holding up signs for Sasha and other skaters, and if those signs gets in my vision, then I won't be too happy. Other cheering matrerials e.g. poms poms are smaller, and do not bother me much.

What are the reasons for banning certain materials? Flash lights, weapons, and pom poms? SSome e.g. flash lights and weapons are obvious. At some GP events fans are not allowed to bring stuff toys which has been kind of a tradition at skating events?? Why?? Then I learnt they want fans to buy the stuff toys from arena venders. I never bring any cheering materials in anyway. Why are Chevy stuff toy cars and 6.0 signs Ok, and a teddy bear brought in from outside not. From my experience people who keep clicking away with their flash lights are 10 times more annoying than pom poms or signs.

In some events, the arena USFSA people hand out pom poms, so why are their pom poms OK, and outside ones not?

If the LOC could be "harassed" or persuaded into something, to me either they lack back bone or the outside pom poms were really not so much a huge deal.

Cheering material from arenas or outside usually do not bother me, because I am there to watch a competition, and want the athlete/ teams who did the best to win. I can see why super fans of one athlete or team can be annoyed if the fans of their favorietes' rival out pom pom, out cheer or out signed them. :)

[Schmeck]

Give me a break - pompoms are bad, but those Chevy 6.0 placards are fine? And of course, it's all the fault of those evil MKF members :roll:

No wonder the general populace thinks figure skating isn't really a sport - it's so gummed down in bizarro regulations, it's like everyone in charge of anything about skating is turning into a Cinquata-style control freak!

No backpacks, no water bottles (wait, does it have the right kind of cap?) no pompoms, no stuffed animals, no flowers...

What's next?

[manleywoman]

Flowers I can understand, because the petals/stems/staples can fall off and cause probems on the ice.

[Kemy]

Originally posted by manleywoman
Flowers I can understand, because the petals/stems/staples can fall off and cause probems on the ice.

Flowers are okay is wrapped in plastic, aren't they?

Pompoms are jsut bad in general...as are banners and signs. They block people's views.

[Italiano]

MKF must of read your post here as they just started a "pom pom"thread in their event info section. As if any of what they did at Nationals had anything to do with pom poms, but that is what they have reduced their behavior to. They quickly took the thread down and put it in the feedback section under a differant title- "Please look at this thread". lol.

[Kwanisaswan]

Re-title the thread Let's Bash MKF:??

[peaches]

Originally posted by Kwanisaswan
Re-title the thread Let's Bash MKF:??

When someone asks a specific question, it deserves an answer.

hiliaryh, specifically, the LOCs do not want to spend any more time or effort worrying about what is stuffed in the already larger than needed bags that fans bring in. They want as much control as possible over what is in the arenas.

And I'm sure on some level they would rather make $$ off ticket holders by selling their own obnoxious material. ;)

[hiliairyh]

Originally posted by Italiano
MKF must of read your post here as they just started a "pom pom"thread in their event info section. As if any of what they did at Nationals had anything to do with pom poms, but that is what they have reduced their behavior to. They quickly took the thread down and put it in the feedback section under a differant title- "Please look at this thread". lol.

What MKF post or not post over there is their business. Why drag it over here, why watch every single thread, word that is said over there?

Would it be a good idea for skating fans to be encouraged to visibly "proclaim" for their fovorite, to organize for their favorites, say by handing out T-shirts and pom poms outside?

Wasn't there an encouragement last year to wear red to show support for Sasha? So what do you think about that as an organized effort for your favorite? If fans are handing out t shirts, sure I will take a few, it does not mean that I will wear the shirts in the arena though. There are always good use for t shirts like washing cars, get a few oversize ones and wear as PJs. :)

I mean, honestly, if it is ok for one skater, then it has to be ok in general, doesn't it? Is that the way you want to see things go in skating in general?

Why not, the Green Bay Packer fans wear cheese hats, and paint their face green, the Cowboys fans paint their face steel gray and blue. I do not bring in cheering materials, but we live in a free country, if fans want to express their cheer with materials, I can't stop them.

What would be the overall result, do you think?

I don't know what you mean. Skating is a sport, not a Sunday afternoon at the opera, (OMG, I am bringing up opera) Of course I don't have the money to pay $160 for an opera ticket, for that price I can buy a ticket to a GP event.

[Italiano]

It is fine for fans to wear their colors. Wearing certain colors has nothing at all to do with unruly fan behavior like what took place at Nationals.

[nyskatefan]

Italiano, where were your seats at Nationals ... were you on the lower level?

[Woofy2]

lol...and i thought we had dropped this debate already. :)

Originally posted by Italiano
MKF must of read your post here as they just started a "pom pom"thread in their event info section.

for a person who doesn't like MKF, could you seriously answer me on why you spend so much time there? are you a closted michelle fan?

by peaches:

"...security time as they've got check all bags, and it would save the sanity of those who might get stuck sitting beside some uber jerk."

security for what? i need someone to convince me on how fan's behavior would affect skaters'/fans' safety. annoyance/enjoyment of the event would be one thing, let's not blow this out of proportion.

by hiliarlyh:

"Cheering material from arenas or outside usually do not bother me, because I am there to watch a competition, and want the athlete/ teams who did the best to win. I can see why super fans of one athlete or team can be annoyed if the fans of their favorietes' rival out pom pom, out cheer or out signed them."

and that's the bottom line...well said. :)

by schmeck:

"No wonder the general populace thinks figure skating isn't really a sport - it's so gummed down in bizarro regulations, it's like everyone in charge of anything about skating is turning into a Cinquata-style control freak!"

ita with you also! :) some posters tend to forget that US nationals, worlds are indeed compeititions. if you want to watch these events w/o any annoyance by other fans just stay home, and save yourself the whinning. in these events, you will see some fans booing, cheering, talking loudly, stand and block your view, holding signs & PP, chevy signs, etc. you will also see other fans who are reserved and quiet of each peformances. i think this all comes down to individual expression and personality, really. my way of in-your-face expression may cause some annoyances to others...but am i less of a person by doing so? who cares?! watch the damn event, and enjoy it for what's it's worth! we should be proud that we have fans who are so passionate about our sport during these times of skating's decline in popularity...no matter if they are michelle fans, sasha fans, jenny fans, etc.

[adrianchew]

To make a short reply - I suppose some fans think this is hockey and booing is acceptable behavior. I guess it says quite a bit given which segment of fans is actually suggesting we condone such behavior, as a reflection of their total indifference and lack of respect for other competitors except their own favorite.

You don't have to cheer or clap if you don't want to, but booing is just plain rude, distracting, and yes, shouting instructions to skaters while they are warming up is dangerous for the skaters safety and concentration. Such spectators should be duly escorted out by security and told never to come back.

[Fred Freebus]

You don't have to cheer or clap if you don't want to, but booing is just plain rude, distracting, and yes, shouting instructions to skaters while they are warming up is dangerous for the skaters safety and concentration. Such spectators should be duly escorted out by security and told never to come back.

Since when? This isn't bowling or golf. Commentators don't whisper like they do for these sports, not even while the skaters are performing their programs. Coaches yell stuff out all of the time. At some competitions they play heavy metal music or hip hop during the warm-ups. How is spectators yelling out stuff dangerous for the skaters when all of this other noise is not?

[Fred Freebus]

Well, they light the arena yet they say don't do flash photograpy. Just as flashes are visually, shouts are auditorily. I remember at the Sears Open in 02 when Sasha was debuting her Romeo and Juliet program she went into a jump and there was a baby that cried out really loud and it caused Sasha to slip on the jump takeoff and just skipped it. Due to the nature of the program it didn't hurt, but just as easily she could have gotten more of a jump started and fallen because of the shout, and any fall is a danger for injury.

That happened during the performance, not the warm-up. Adrian is saying that people who shout out comments during the warm-up should be ejected from the arena and not let back in again. Many skaters say that they love it when fans shout stuff out to them because it breaks the tension, and helps bring up the level of the performance.

IMO people who don't clap are very rude. There were a bunch of people in the first row at Nationals who sat and didn't applaud after Michelle skated. I don't think that's any different than booing. I applaud every skater for their effort. Some get polite applause, but I would never disrespect a skater by not clapping, even if they finish last.

[hiliairyh]

To make a short reply - I suppose some fans think this is hockey and booing is acceptable behavior.

A short reply to what question? loveskating asked

"Would it be a good idea for skating fans to be encouraged to visibly "proclaim" for their fovorite, to organize for their favorites, say by handing out T-shirts and pom poms outside?"

I thought you answered that last year by asking / organizing us to wear red to show support for Sasha. How does a thread on cheering turn into a thread about booing? Anyways, I too agree that booing is rude.

You don't have to cheer or clap if you don't want to, but booing is just plain rude, distracting, and yes, shouting instructions to skaters

Did you see that too? In world 2003, some fans were booing Michelle and shouted at her during practice. I have no idea what "segment" they belong to , because they were smart enough not to wear t shirts or paint their favorite skater's name on their foreheads. :)


shouting instructions to skaters while they are warming up is dangerous for the skaters safety and concentration

Somewhat off topic.
Someone brought up golf. I believe it is lengendary by now that Tiger Wood's father put him through the training of maximum disruptions. Earl woods shouted, dropped a bunch of change onto the green, and did all sorts of things that were supposed to be distracting while Tiger was practicing golf. The result is one tough Tiger, who is able to concentrate, stay focus, and mentally tough. I believe on tour currently Tiger has to deal with all sorts of noise and distractions, cameras clickings, fans yelling drain that putt, kids calling go Tiger, babies crying, Tiger haters trying to trip him up by sticking umbrellas in his path, even death threats, and he handles that beautifully. I agree these distractions shouldn't happen, but I admire the way Tiger handles all these obstacles. Michelle dealt with death threat too.

Back on the topic of cheering I think skating is a sport, so fans can be as creative as they want to to cheer, pompoms, t shirts, flowers neatly wrapped, stuff toys whatever, although I do not use cheering materials. Skating is not hockey, it is not an evening at the opera either. I have only attended opera twice, and I was instructed not to clap in the middle of an act, I had to wait to the end of an act to clap.

[Schmeck]

Ah, now we have the cause of all of Sasha's problems - let's blame it on a baby, LOL! And now, of course, the next logical step would be to associate that baby with MKF. It must be the devil's own spawn, brought to life by the MKF, and trained to cry out just when Sasha sets up for her jumps...

Or maybe someone pinched it, on purpose, or something? :roll:

[adrianchew]

Many skaters say that they love it when fans shout stuff out to them because it breaks the tension, and helps bring up the level of the performance.
Let me be clear - I meant fans shouting out jeers at skaters they don't like, and not cheering ones they do. The "Go Sasha, Go Michelle, Go Jenny, Go Whomever" cries by little girls aren't a big deal.

[dalayna]

What has cheering got to do with behaving so bad that security has to step in? That's what happened at the last event. I think people are talking about two differant things.

[TreSk8sAZ]

by peaches:

"...security time as they've got check all bags, and it would save the sanity of those who might get stuck sitting beside some uber jerk."

security for what? i need someone to convince me on how fan's behavior would affect skaters'/fans' safety. annoyance/enjoyment of the event would be one thing, let's not blow this out of proportion.



By security, I don't think that peaches meant to the skaters' safety. But with all of the national and international worries of bombs in backpacks or other hazards being brought into large crowds with the express purpose to harm, it's not only skating that is checking the contents of people's bags. Yes, the cheering stuff might annoy some people, but the security issue is if/where people are hiding hazardous materials... And about the stuffed animals in another post... this is cynical, but if someone really wanted to bring a bomb in, what better place than to hide it in a "stuffed" bear? No one would check that! Granted, that's not why they won't allow them in, but still.

[Fred Freebus]

As to the performance vs. warm-up difference. It provides the same danger either way. Just because it is a warm-up doesn't mean it can cause problems and endanger the skater.

I wouldn't go to a skating event as part of a fan club organized to dress a way or wave pom poms or anything. I like to think of skating as a bit more dignified sport than football and others. I don't want drunk shirtless fat guys shouting obsenities at a skating event. Or other less extreme annoyances about going to those sports. You'll notice at one of the big four sports, you can make as much noise as you want (within reason) at any point of the game. In skating, if you made a lot of noise mid-performance, you would probably be tossed quite quickly. Skating isn't just a sport and thus created equal. I think it is fully rational to expect higher standards.

Oh, and not clapping is perfectly polite. This isn't the special olympics where we have to like every performance simply because it is there.

I have attended lots of competitions and practices sessions and it's never quiet. Music is playing, skaters are joking back and forth. None of this is a danger is to the skaters. At some competitions, horns blare to mark the end of the warm-up or practice session. Once the skaters begin their programs, fans are quiet.

I have never heard a coach, a skater, a commentator, or anyone else say that fans yelling out stuff during warm-up was a danger to the skaters. They make announcements about flash cameras being a danger. If shouting out during the warm-up endangered the skaters, I figure the announcers would ask the audience for quiet.

I didn't say you had to like the performance, just that I consider not clapping as disrespectful as booing. I attended a competition this past fall where Elena Sokalova skated. She's not my favourite skater and she doubled all her jumps but I still clapped. Everyone has different definitions of rude. That's mine.

[dalayna]

[QUOTE=TreSk8sAZ]By security, I don't think that peaches meant to the skaters' safety. ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// No, security was called due to fan behavior.

[loveskating]

I agree with Adrian, when people are rude or obscene to ANY skater, they should be removed from the rink. Like I said, the ONLY time I ever felt like booing a skater was when Candeloro took his clothes off...and even then, I didn't do it. One can exercise restraint out of respect for other fans and the sport?

I see no problem with people wearing national colors or some color to help them find one another, sitting together, having fun...but pom poms and all that are too much, too polarizing I think, and that goes for my faves as well.

I just want you all to know that there used to be these fan clubs in Italy for opera singers...they had offices and everything. Things got so out of hand that they had to be shut down.

We need to think about DIRECTIONS, the long term things, as well.

[dalayna]

Lol Lol Lol. I remember that time when Philipe took his clothes off. I had a differant reaction though. I wanted to give him 6.0's across the board and then follow him to his hotel room.