A tedious time for Kwan

[Kabooke]

A tedious time for Kwan

"Ten and one-half weeks. Nearly three months of tedium, of days filled with practices at 10 a.m., 1:15 and 5:45 p.m. Of nights spent in front of the TV or noodling on the Internet.

What else can a single, 23-year-old woman do in the California mountains to pass time during the 74 days between the last competition, when she won an eighth national championship in Atlanta, and the next, beginning two weeks from now, when she will try to win a sixth world title in Dortmund, Germany?"


http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/printedition/cs-0403100409mar10,1,2362793.story?coll=cs-sports-print


Congratulation to Peter & Karen Oppegard!

"She returns to Los Angeles on weekends to spend time with her brother. Kwan was pinned in Lake Arrowhead by a snowstorm March 2 when sister Karen made her an aunt, giving birth to Olivia Colett Oppegard."

[Louis]

Hopefully, this quote will end the triple-triple speculation:


She practices triple-triple jump combinations but is unlikely to try one at worlds. She doesn't want to risk botching other things by putting too much emphasis on a combination not necessary for victory.

[Kemy]

At least she's acknowledging that she working on better spins and footwork and speed first. I think speed will help her in the future.

[JDC1]

"doesn't want to risk" typical and SMART. She wants to win and she feels she doesn't need it, maybe she'll be wrong, maybe she won't. By using her head she's also managed to avoid most major injuries. Besides, what that program needs is harder spins and more content, a 3/3 won't fix that.

[nyskatefan]

JDC1 ... didn't anyone tell you? Michelle's detractors know much better what she should do than she does.
At least we didn't have to wait long (only 2 posts) for the nastiness to begin.

Sigh .......... typical.

[drmsk8r]

I agree totally with JDC1- Michelle is much faster overall, I noticed it especially into jumps and her spins. She can most certainly win without a triple-triple. You are also right about the injury factor- she has not had one major injury; with the exception of a toe stress fracture many years ago.

[Kabooke]

Originally posted by JDC1
"doesn't want to risk" typical and SMART. She wants to win and she feels she doesn't need it, maybe she'll be wrong, maybe she won't. By using her head she's also managed to avoid most major injuries. Besides, what that program needs is harder spins and more content, a 3/3 won't fix that.

I agree!

[Emanfan]

Originally posted by JDC1
"doesn't want to risk" typical and SMART. She wants to win and she feels she doesn't need it, maybe she'll be wrong, maybe she won't. By using her head she's also managed to avoid most major injuries. Besides, what that program needs is harder spins and more content, a 3/3 won't fix that.

ITA as well. Artist, athlete, strategist! I really don't care if she wins or not - I just really like to watch her. I like a skater that stirs my emotions and she does.

Wear that "heart on your sleeve" Michelle! :bow: :bow:

[ARTIQUE]

Prior to the 2003 World competition, did'nt Michelle clearly state last year that she was NOT doing any 3/3 in her program? This year Michelle says it is UNLIKELY, which is not the same as no I will NOT be attempting any 3/3. Maybe after more practices, and the increased adrenaline starts to kick in, Michelle may get another triple axel moment. ;)

[MQSeries]

If she adds some footwork in the beginning and middle section of her program then I'll be happy.

[Schmeck]

I'd rather see skaters add more quality content (fixing flutzes, better flip entries, more difficult footwork, MIF, etc.) than less than perfect 3/3s and sloppy, two footed, underrotated attempts at quads.

Worlds is going to be so exciting!

Schmeck

[jcspkbfan]

This same article has been posted at the San Jose Mercury News site, for anyone who'd like to read the whole thing without going through the Chicago Tribune registration process:

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/8152438.htm

[Schmeck]

Thanks for the 'registerless' link, jcspkbfan!

Sounds like Michelle is getting a bit of a kick in the butt by Arutunian, lol!

It's too bad that she missed being with Karen during the birth of her new niece though. And why didn't Michelle move into her house at Lake Arrowhead right away? Why stay at a hotel, when you own a house right there????

Schmeck

[Kemy]

Maybe it wasn't in move-in condition...aka dust, no furniture yet, etc. Also, she might have been dreading the solitude that comes with living by yourself in house.

[JDC1]

Actually in an earlier Hersh article about Kwan she stated her father was nervous having her live by herself in the house and convinced her to stay in the hotel. It's sad she really doesn't have a friend to take to the Oscars? Oy. I hope Rafael worked on her spins and added some harder ones she's been slacking off on the spins lately, not the speed, but the variation.

[AnnM]

I can understand her dad being nervous about her living in a house up there, especially since the article mentions that she moved up to Lake Arrowhead in October. The devastating SoCal wildfires started in mid-October and lingering effects such as spotty electrical and phone service were felt into November. There were also problems with getting access to non-major roads. Then in December mudslides and flash floods were a huge concern due to the state of the land after the fires.

I've spent a couple weekends up in Arrowhead. Most of the homes/cabins are far apart from each other and can be pretty well hidden from the main road. There are some shops and stuff at the lake itself, but there is not a whole lot to do. And it's quite a drive to get to a decent city (some of the closer cities are not very nice or safe). Arrowhead is a very lonely area to live in if you are a young, single female.

[Schmeck]

AnnM, and JDC1, thanks for the info and descriptiions of Lake Arrowhead. Somehow, I got this "perfect skating community", kind of like a gated community I guess, vision of Lake Arrowhead. I didn't realize it was so isolated, and spread out!

[Dolly]

I don't care if Michelle doesn't include triple triples. I hope she can skate her best, and her best is wonderful to me. I love the softness of her skating, her elegance, her emotion. She is just a classy lady and I am looking forward to watching her perform at Worlds.

Thanks for the article. She seems so sweet, but lonely right now. It takes a lot of everything to continue to excel as Michelle does. I wish her only the best.

[Samskate]

Nice post, Dolly!:D

[loveskating]

Originally posted by Schmeck
I'd rather see skaters add more quality content (fixing flutzes, better flip entries, more difficult footwork, MIF, etc.) than less than perfect 3/3s and sloppy, two footed, underrotated attempts at quads.

Worlds is going to be so exciting!

Schmeck

Who is planning a quad for Worlds?

But I agree...I love the COP because you get things like serpentine footwork into a 3 flip and a 2 axle like from Sasha...and MIF instead of mere strokes all the time...like from Sasha, half bielmans, attitude, innovative combination spins and back scratch spin...its great.

[hiliairyh]

I bet Miki Ando the reigning Japan national champion is planning a quad sal in worlds. She may have a good chance of landing it, since she has already landed this jump in competition about 8 - 9 times.

I too agree I prefer skaters to do a good triple jump with good run out than attempting lousy 3/3.

[Tapper]

Originally posted by JDC1
"doesn't want to risk" typical and SMART. She wants to win and she feels she doesn't need it, maybe she'll be wrong, maybe she won't. By using her head she's also managed to avoid most major injuries. Besides, what that program needs is harder spins and more content, a 3/3 won't fix that.

I totally agree also! She is a brilliant athlete. I am so looking forward to seeing her skate at Worlds I can hardly wait.

[Tessie]

Originally posted by Schmeck
I'd rather see skaters add more quality content (fixing flutzes, better flip entries, more difficult footwork, MIF, etc.) than less than perfect 3/3s and sloppy, two footed, underrotated attempts at quads.

Worlds is going to be so exciting!

Schmeck

Well said, bravo.:)

[Lavender Girl]

Originally posted by JDC1
It's sad she really doesn't have a friend to take to the Oscars? Oy. .

Is she still dating that hockey player named Brad? I haven't heard anything about him in a long time.

[adrianchew]

Originally posted by Lavender Girl

Is she still dating that hockey player named Brad? I haven't heard anything about him in a long time.

No - they broke up last year sometime I think.

[apache88]

Originally posted by Bondo
"Doesn't want to risk"

Typical.

Bondo, I'm just curious. What do you think of Sasha's decision to drop the 3/3 at 2004 Worlds because she doesn't want to risk it? In fact for those who have criticized Michelle for not planning to do any 3/3 at 2003 Worlds or this year's Worlds, could you care to share your thoughts about Sasha's decision?

As for me, whatever Sasha's plan is, I respect that and I hope it works for her. I hope she will pull it off this time with a clean LP in the freeskate.

[nyskatefan]

Apache, there really isn't much difference at all. It is correct that in the last few years, Michelle has not pushed the envelope, so to say. She has instead worked on her power and speed ... both have improved immensely. While many people are so quick to point how how perfectly simple the 3T/3T is ... it makes me wonder why more skaters do not attempt and land them cleanly, much more often. I guess maybe it's their choice to try a more difficult 3/3, even if it does not turn out successful.
BTW, I can't remember, but has Sasha attempted her 3Z/3T this season? I do remember she landed it once last season.

[Italiano]

I'm not sure it is good to drop the 3/3 from Sasha's program. To me, this year's Worlds is not about Michelle at all. It's about beating Miki Ando who if she doesn't do her quad will at least do a 3/3, maybe two and she is very consistant. I wish Sasha would re-think this decision.

[Kabooke]

Originally posted by Italiano
I'm not sure it is good to drop the 3/3 from Sasha's program. To me, this year's Worlds is not about Michelle at all. It's about beating Miki Ando who if she doesn't do her quad will at least do a 3/3, maybe two and she is very consistant. I wish Sasha would re-think this decision.

Ando???
You're kidding right?:lol:

[nyskatefan]

Bondo, I can't speak for "many" Michelle fans ... but I can tell you I have NEVER downplayed the 3T/3T. Frankly, I can't comprehend how any of these skaters can spin in the air and then land without falling.

[bunghodog]

Ok so if sasha decides against the 3/3 its ok because she tries harder things??? look Michelle has landed 6 triple programs in the last 3 worlds in a row and at Nationals, and I think she could of easily done another triple to make it 7 but she knew she did not have to because the other competitors had mistakes so she stuck with 6, I do not think that is calling it safe just because she did 6, how many of the top 5 at worlds landed 6 triple jumps? besides soklova who has no finish in her program at all. Michelle plays it safe because she can, she has not been forced to do 7 triples, don't knock her just because the other skaters have not put it together. Believe it or not: she can do it(7triples). She is doing what you call in bowling sand bagging.

[Italiano]

Thats right Kabooke, I said Ando. Miki has the quad which she may or may not use. She also has very consistant 3/3's which she most certainly will use. Miki is also artistic and has good presentation. She just won JR Worlds. What makes you think she can't win SR's? Sasha should put a 3/3 in . We are pretty sure Michelle won't. Sasha has to beat Ando.

[sk8rbean]

Miki Ando may have a quad and triple-triples, but she is only going to be at her first senior worlds and her artistry, while it may be good for a junior, is not going to come close to matching those with lots of finish and emotion like Sasha and Michelle. Next year we can all freak because Michelle and Sasha aren't trying triple triples while Miki is doing a quad. Saying that Miki Ando is the one to beat at this point is a little far-fetched.:roll:

[Italiano]

That's your opinion. If she outskates everyone they won't give her the gold just because she's never done Sr Worlds? That's just wrong.

[apache88]

Originally posted by Bondo
Well, there are differences...

Sasha actually tries to grow in a non-jump direction by adding more difficult non-jump elements and also going for that clean program that has generally eluded her.

Michelle has had that clean program...probably too often (the consistency is a sign that she is playing it safe), and I don't think any elements she adds for Worlds will be new to her completely, rather just a return to a better time in her skating.

So Sasha is still actually pushing for progress. Additionally, Sasha has had a full season with a 3z/3t combo, more difficult than anything Michelle has landed, and Sasha did land it. In a few events Sasha attempted a 4s. She has pushed it in the jump arena in the past and will again.

I know Michelle comes from a different era, but even then a 3t/3t wasn't a huge deal, Michelle started after people had landed 3a. So I don't know how progressive Michelle has ever been with jump difficulty. She tends to make up for in crowd and judge pleasing emoting what she lacks in difficulty.

Thanks for answering my question when I specifically directed it to you.;)

Ok I just have to disagree. First, how can Sasha still be considering pushing for progress when she toned down her LP specifically for the 6.0 system at Nationals and now she's planned on dropping the 3/3 at the coming Worlds?

Second, how can you claim Sasha has had a full season with a 3z/3t when all she has landed is just one at Worlds 2003? If you argue that is because she has planned it for her program and she has successfully landed it in practices, then shouldn't you have given credit to Michelle for landing successfully the 3s/3l combo in the practice sessions at Worlds 2001 and the 3z/3l at 2001 Skate Canada too? Practices are practices. There is a reason why Peggy had to say "best practice skater ever" even though it pained her to say that knowing how much she has always loved Sasha's skating.

[JDC1]

Both skaters are choosing to skate smart and skate to their strenghts, that's a good strategy. And trying to get ANY uber fan to admit that their favorite skater is not the goddess of all skate goddesses is pointless...let it go..logic is useless. :-)

[Kemy]

Originally posted by Bondo
Her Swan Lake has never had a 3/3 combo in it so she didn't remove it for Worlds, she just didn't add one.

But she did take out much of the footwork preceding her jumps and took out a couple of positions in her spins. I think the footwork ommission to was done to improve consistency on her jumps, which is good. I also thought that her eliminating her camel (is this right?) from before her forward scratchspin was an excellent decision. Before that, I always thought that the forward scratchspin never had time to fully develop.

[Schmeck]

You mean, Sasha hasn't done a 3/3 in her long program this year? Are you all sure? She never had one planned? She trimmed down her footwork in a program, to make it a less difficult program?

[Kemy]

Originally posted by Schmeck
You mean, Sasha hasn't done a 3/3 in her long program this year? Are you all sure? She never had one planned? She trimmed down her footwork in a program, to make it a less difficult program?

Her spins are still great, and she only trimmed down the footwork before the jumps (it wouldn't get any credit under the 6.0 so why keep it when it was hindering her jumping?) The footwork section was not trimmed down...just changed.

[apache88]

Originally posted by Bondo
Sasha ATTEMPTED the 3z/3t in every competition IIRC in her Rach 3 program. The difference between doing it in practice but removing it for the competition vs. actually trying it in competition, whether it is successful or not, is huge.

Her Swan Lake has never had a 3/3 combo in it so she didn't remove it for Worlds, she just didn't add one.

Ok I understand where you are coming from and I agree there is a huge difference between really attempting it in competitions and in practices.

Am I right to say because of that, to you, Sasha can be excused for not including it in Swan Lake this season since she already had made effort to attempt the 3/3 last season. Fine, nothing wrtong with that. But aren't we talking about making technical progress here? She was making techical progress last season, no argument, but this season, she decides to tone down her jumps and you still say she is pushing for technical progress?

I'm confused because when Michelle dropped the 3/3 you said she was not making effort to push for technical progress. Also, since you are willing give such leeway to Sasha for what she has done in previous seasons, shouldn't you do the same for Michelle who has started to skate easier programs since last year, considering all those 6-7 triples + 11 3/3s that she had skated before that. From your posts, I don't think you have in anyway given Michelle the same leeway as you have Sasha.

I'm not trying to find fault with your opinions (I respect your opinions), I'm just curious to find out if you are a biased fan which is totally fine really, if you are. But if you claim you are objective and neutral as some posters would love to claim they are, then I have to say I don't think so. Your opinions lack coherence.

[Little Bit]

ouch!

[Kwanisaswan]

Originally posted by Bondo
I don't claim to be objective, I think objectivity is a myth.

With that out of the way, my point was that for Sasha, having that clean skate, is by itself a breakthrough. So by working for that she is pushing to be better, it just isn't an improvement in jump difficulty. For the record she has made other elements more difficult this season, although less so under 6.0 because it wouldn't be rewarded.

Michelle on the other hand has already done the clean skates, so striving for that isn't really working for improvement. So she needs something else as a goal to be moving forward in her skating. Personally, I don't see Michelle really improving any element of her skating over what she's done in the past...maybe she is improving over earlier in the season in certain parts, but not over her best.

So that is my main critique here. Sasha has a goal that is new to her, something that will make her better than she's been overall. Michelle doesn't seem to have a goal that provides anything new. If she isn't going to strive to be a better skater than she has been, then isn't she just striving for more medals? This is one of the reasons I think Michelle shouldn't stick around, she isn't improving and I don't really see her ever making further breakthroughs in spins or jumps to surpass her past abilities.


hahahahaahha,
Bondo, I love you because you make coming to this forum and laughing so hard the best part of my day. Guess what I acutally agree with part of with what you said. But the reason I laugh so hard is because dispite the fact that "Michelle isn't improveing" she is STILL a damn good skater. She is the best!! Period, she doesn't NEED to improve, she's already the best. Sasha has to best HER. Not vice versa, dispite sasha has better overt technical abilities like spins, choro, and sprials. Kwan has still the best overall techical and artistic skater since she landed her last 3toe at the in of Salome at '96 worlds. It was true for Michelle vs. Tara(Tara has to beat HER) it was true with Michelle vs. Irina vs. Sarah at SLC(Sarah had to Beat HER with 2 3/3s)

Thus..I see little point to your argument. All I have to say is this, sasha has to "Bring it" at worlds is she wants to beat michelle. NO matter how much you complain about Kwan "not improving" and "no 3/3" and "Tosca sux" she still wins!!?!? So, I say if sasha truly wants to win...she must skate cleanly, though ALL 3 phases at worlds. She might want to consider doing a 3/3 too! Kwan we all know is 3/3 shy. No falling on a crossover, or falling out of a spin, and absolutly no falling on jumps!! Keep you head together, the whole way thought. You are up aginst Kwan the Kween of Kwansistancy!!!


Listen to reason PLEASE, Bondo, adrien, lovesskatign, dani, and all sasha fans. We don't need to fight. I like sasha too;)

[apache88]

Hey Bondo, your last post was great really.:D Although it was a criticism towards Michelle, I actually found your explanation objective and thanks for the answer.

I disagree about your reasons why Michelle should retire but then we can debate the whole day and still disagree. Just to point out, hope you don't mind, all your other posts gave me the impression you were extremely biased against Michelle. Perhaps it was not your intention and you didn't realise it but that's how they appeared to me. That has led me into mis-inferring your posts here, sorry my bad.

[apache88]

Kwanisaswan, perhaps we saw Bondo's last post differently. He may not be my favourite poster but I actually found his answer to my question objective. But that doesn't mean I agree with him.

[hiliairyh]

This is one of the reasons I think Michelle shouldn't stick around, she isn't improving and I don't really see her ever making further breakthroughs in spins or jumps to surpass her past abilities.

Here we go again, people begruding Michelle sticking around. As long as she is competitive and is able to win, she should stay around, as long as she enjoys eompetiting she should stay around. Competitive skating is a sport, it is about competing.

Making break throughs can be a secondary, or 3rd or 4th goal, it is not the primary goal. LOL, how many break through moves are there in basketball? or footballs?

BTW, competitive skating is not about MK vs SC, although every thread on either skater had been turned to that.

If every skater's reason to stick around is to do break through moves then who should Irina, Fumie, Liashenko just to name a few stick around.

BTW be careful, people can apply your same standard back to Sasha, once she skates clean then should she retire?

What double standards, Sasha hasn't been consistently clean, so that is something she works towards, therefore she is striving to improve, and therefore she should stick around. OTOH, Michelle's spins need improvement, she can not possibly improve on her spins according to some posters, therefore she should retire.

Instead of all these round about way of nit picking Michelle, I have a simple solution, just don't watch her, take a rest room break the next time they show her on TV.

[hiliairyh]

I think most of the skaters you listed could still improve so I don't see a reason for them to retire. Its just that Michelle isn't doing anything new and improved over what she has done in the past from what I am watching, she is stagnating if not actually diminishing in her own talent, even if others aren't beating her consistently YET.

I totally disagree with your view of why Michelle should retire.

Skating is a sports, if Michelle or any skater is good enough to be competitive and is enjoying the competition, they should continue to stick around if they want to. Michelle is improving e.g. in her overall edgings and speed. Even if she is not improving over her personal best, so what, she is still beating many skaters, she should compete if she wants to.

[yvettedeena]

Originally posted by Bondo
I think most of the skaters you listed could still improve so I don't see a reason for them to retire. Its just that Michelle isn't doing anything new and improved over what she has done in the past from what I am watching, she is stagnating if not actually diminishing in her own talent, even if others aren't beating her consistently YET.

As you say, most of the skaters named COULD still improve and that's right, as COULD Michelle.

[yvettedeena]

Originally posted by hiliairyh
I totally disagree with your view of why Michelle should retire.

Skating is a sports, if Michelle or any skater is good enough to be competitive and is enjoying the competition, they should continue to stick around if they want to. Michelle is improving e.g. in her overall edgings and speed. Even if she is not improving over her personal best, so what, she is still beating many skaters, she should compete if she wants to.

This is completely correct. Unless there is a rule instituted that says a skater who is not improving must retire, then they should continue to compete, especially since their federation sees fit that they represent them in competition. If such a rule were instituted, then I am sure the governing officials would come up with guidelines in evaluating each skater to determine whether or not they should retire.