One Lift Away from GOLD?

[hoptoad]

This past season, some commentators (well, Scott Hamilton, maybe others) were saying that B/S were "one lift away from gold" in 98. Besides the fall on the lift at the end of their program, they had a very messy throw twist where she came out forward. With these mistakes, they placed over Woetzel and Steuer 5 to 4. If they had not fallen on the final lift, but otherwise they and everyone else skated the same, would they have won gold instead of silver? I think K/D's only mistake was that she singled a double axle. I don't know how their programs compared in difficulty, but I think the "one lift away" claim is debatable

Also, could any of the pairs at the 98 olympics have medaled in 2002? Clearly, no one could touch B/S or S/P, but how about S/Z?

[Artemis]

Well, Scott does often tend toward hyperbole when he commentates.

I can't remember the element-by-element comparisson from 98, I can only remember that it wasn't even close. In addition to the mistakes B&S made, they also skated with a general lack of conviction and their usual flow. Everyone expected them to win, and whether it was stress or something else, they couldn't pull through.

As for whether any of the 98 medalists could have challenged in 2002, all I can say is that you can never, ever count out Artur. :wink: It's impossible to say where their skills would be if they'd decided to remain eligible for 2002.

[duane]

even with their uninspired short & long performances at the Olympic games, b&s won the silver. perhaps they WOULD have placed over k&d if they had not fallen on the lift at the end. i think by then, the judges would have "forgotten" about their earlier mistake, and they possibly would have won over k&d based on the presentation marks.

[icenut84]

I don't think B&S's performances in 98 were uninspired. Their short programme to Swan Lake was absolutely beautiful, and Anton recovered very well after the fall on the 3 toe. Their long programme to Dark Eyes was gorgeous too, even though they had a couple of mistakes they skated it beautifully. With regards to winning the silver, it has to be said that their presentation was probably the best out of all the pairs in the competition and their programmes were wonderful. Maybe if they hadn't had the fall at the end, they would have won the gold even with the mistake on the twist (I don't remember K&D's mistake, will have to check my tape). The presentation marks are the tiebreaker, and IMO they were streets ahead of K&D.

[loveskating]

In 1998 in the LP, Barezhnaya and Sik fell on the DISMOUNT of the lift...if they had fallen on the lift itself, it would have been horrible, very likely someone would have been hurt. We have seen others since then fall on actual lifts, and at the very minimum people have usually been knocked unconscious for a time.

While one can get more credit for a more difficult dismount from any lift, its not that much, therefore I doubt if B&S were marked down very much for the fall on a dismount.

Also, on the 3twist, didn't the ISU change the catching rule after that season? I can't recall, but I think so...partly because of B&S, I always thought, because their 3 twist was HUGE but the catch was always wild.

They clearly won second IMHO...

[originalQA]

I will NEVER NEVER NEVER understand how anyone could justify B&S MEDALING in Nagano, let alone WINNING!
IMO, B&S should have been 5th after the SP, with either I&D or W&S winning the SP.
Then, with B&S's lackluster performance and fall in the LP, I would have had them 4th, so they would have finished 4th overall, and I think that is VERY generous.....

[Inside Edge]

I agree with originalQA. W&S definately should have placed higher.

I remember K&D having an impressive Long, although mistakes were forgiven in the short. Oksana was practically standing up during their death spiral. Moskvina was asked about this and all she said was something like "I don't like having problems with the elements"

[hoptoad]

I really liked B/S's Dark Eyes program from 98. The throw twist was more than just wild, however; she was at least half a rotation short (coming out facing away from Anton). One of the commentators said something to the effect that, "they hadn't had time to master that element yet", so it sounds like an ongoing problem, not just an oops on that night.

[leap of faith]

The year before B&S were still doing a 2-twist in the LP. I guess that's why it was a struggle still at the Olys.

[loveskating]

Its very interesting to me how the judges differentiate according to the rules when skaters do the very same elements.

For instance, in pairs, judges seem to differentiate between excellent skaters a lot based on UNISON...which even includes quality issues like the distance between the skaters; Ina and Dungen totally blew the unison on their SBS spins in 1998 in the LP, for instance, not just slightly, but hugely.

Things like quite edges by the male skater during the lifts also seem to differentiate a lot, and rightly so, IMHO, because it is much, much harder.

Of course, judges also differentiate based on DIFFICULTY, which the casual fan cannot always appreciate, and which the commentators, sadly, often do not point out.

ONce I saw B&S skate live, I could hardly believe the seamlessness of their skating, their deep, quiet edging and at such a great speed, and with such enormous flow I felt as if I were flying myself. I think that now Kyoko Ina has that quality in her edging, in 1998 she did not, nor did Dungen. They had some hard lifts, very spectacular.

[originalQA]

[quote:12a9899bcc="loveskating"]ONce I saw B&S skate live, I could hardly believe the seamlessness of their skating, their deep, quiet edging and at such a great speed, and with such enormous flow I felt as if I were flying myself. I think that now Kyoko Ina has that quality in her edging, in 1998 she did not, nor did Dungen. They had some hard lifts, very spectacular.[/quote:12a9899bcc]But, does that "seamlessness" totally erase 2 enourmess mistakes in the SP and one in the LP?
I cannot see how anyone, Russian or not, could be held up to 3rd in the SP with 2 mistakes when I&D placed 4th with a superb, and as I recall, clean SP.
Well, before I put my foot in it, does anyone have the judges placements and countrys for the SP and LP?