Permanently Banned Coach Still Finds Ways to Coach

[celtic]

Gordie McKellen, banned for life by the USFSA in 2001, is still on the ice and teaching kids. Although he can't coach at USFSA events, he is still finds ways to out get out there teaching. Of course, he has to have a little help from his friends, like Kerry Leitch. And worse, there are still parents out there who don't care what he did because he's "a good coach".

He buys private ice at Stonebriar in Frisco, TX two mornings a week for giving lessons.

He appears as a guest coach at the J.P. Igloo skate camps in Florida, at invitation of Mr. Leitch. Check out their website.

[mary]

Okay, what did he do?

[Skatewind]

It's not surprising that a coach like Kerry Leitch, known for bucking the system & not always the most supportive of skaters, would help him. But it's also rumored that a well known professional skater has been supporting McKellan's desire for reinstatement. If the USFSA reinstates him, then that will show an obvious breakdown in the implementation of the new rules & the intent of the organization in this area. Hopefully they will remain committed to the original grievance & outcome.

[celtic]

Skatewind, I've heard of that well-known skater pushing for Gordie, and also the rumor that he is being reinstated. I don't know who started it, but I don't think reinstatement will happen. Thanks for the info on Leitch; I didn't know much about him except his coaching successes.

[Emanfan]

I'm almost afraid to ask, but why was he banned?

[celtic]

Unethical behavior while coaching a student.

[Trillian]

Well, we've got a pairs team getting national team funding while using someone else who's been banned by the USFSA as their primary coach. They don't have their main coach "officially" listed, so it's supposedly not a problem (even though this coach been seen coaching from the stands at competitions, and supposedly even managed to briefly get ahold of some credentials at nationals one year). IMO something like that is an even bigger slap in the face of the USFSA's policies, but there's only so much you can say by way of complaint unless you can point to a specific rule being violated (especially when the person in question has friends in high places, as McKellan and this other coach do). They can't stop someone from buying a ticket, and apparently don't mind seeing such a person publicly coaching national team members.

I hope the rumor about McKellan being reinstated remains just that--a rumor. I can't believe anyone could continue to support the idea of these people being involved in the sport and coaching young kids; they were banned for a reason, after all.

[celtic]

Amen to your comments, Trillian. They won't be reinstated: the word "permanent" has a definite meaning. These reinstatement rumors start, apparently by people who have no idea of how it could happen or an understanding of the USFSA guidelines. Maybe the coach himself started the rumor to get people to pay him to coach their children.

Most rinks won't hire these coaches; they're too much of a liability.

[Louis]

McKellen was banned because he chose not to defend himself against the charges that were brought against him. I don't know what the rules would say if he suddenly decided he did want to defend himself and become reinstated. I would hope that "permanent" means "permanent," but one never knows.

The whole McKellen situation is an extremely sad mess, and I don't think it's nearly as black and white as the Bob Young situation. I didn't know what the right solution was when the whole situation happened, and the passing of time has only added to the confusion. I don't think the USFSA should revoke permanent bans, but I can somewhat reluctantly understand why Kerry Leitch, Scott Hamilton, and others have supported McKellen.

[what?meworry?]

he didn't defend himself because he couldn't. like others, including the first big stink who was never banned, rumors followed him from location to location.

for general information. occasionally, such behaviours for which these two coaches were nailed, have been effectively encouraged at worst, or at least passivly accepted, by an excessivly ambitious parent.

about the other "banned" coach. he was nailed by one family, but there were "rumors" of others that i know enough about to say: he needs to stay banned.

it's appalling that he's being supported by usfsa funding provided to the pairs team he works with. that's what effectively is happening 'cause that guy ain't coaching that team for free.

usfsa can't ban a coach from coaching at all, only from participating in any usfsa qualifying competitions. but usfsa can withhold funding from any team actively, or passively "from the stands," working with a banned coach.

and they certainly should refuse to provide envelope money (which gets substantial at the "b" level) to any skater or team that continues to work with a banned coach. no matter what other coaches they pay, that money is in fact still getting into his pocket.

[WeBeEducated]

I agree with whatmeworry. If he could have defended his actions he obviously would have. Jackie Mero didnt show up to defend herself either, afterall, what could she posible say??
There simply isnt a defense. Period.
So why do parents overlook unethical behavior and seek coaches who have been banned? Why does the USFSA allow skaters to collect USFSA funds while using a banned coach? Why does the USFSA accept the blatent falsification of records by skaters who fail to list their real coach in order to circumvent the rules?

Any ideas?

[Twizzlers]

Unfortunately there are some sick parents out there who buy into the rhetoric of said coaches promising to make their children champions. These parents seem more interested in the success of their child and turn a blind eye to the unethical behavior. These coaches won't truly be banned until the parents stop supporting them. It really makes me angry!!!

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by mary
Okay, what did he do?

he was "naughty" with one (at least) of his underage female skaters.

[Louis]

Originally posted by WeBeEducated

There simply isnt a defense. Period.

Actually, the victim in this case was going to testify FOR McKellen, as was one of the victim's parents. The grievance was filed by the skater's other parent against the wishes of the skater. Like I said, it's a messy situation with no easy answer, but it's not as black and white as people are making it out to be. I can sympathize with both sides.

[what?meworry?]

yes, she and one parent fall into that category i previously mentioned.

yes, the other parent was the motivating force behind bringing the "situation" to the attention of usfsa. and, in my opinion, rightly so.

further, the facts of the situation really are not disputable with a number of competitors verifying the "situation" made obvious at certain "away" competitions at which competitors room together.

quite offensive.

[dejaview]

Originally posted by Twizzlers
Unfortunately there are some sick parents out there who buy into the rhetoric of said coaches promising to make their children champions. These parents seem more interested in the success of their child and turn a blind eye to the unethical behavior. These coaches won't truly be banned until the parents stop supporting them. It really makes me angry!!!

I don't believe this type of behavior is fostered by parents turning a "blind eye" and willingly putting their child in harms way.
Professionals (whether they be coaches, teachers, priests, etc.)
who molest and abuse our youth, use various psychological tactics.
Just an example: If a coach has previously had a winning record even to the point of taking athletes to the Olympic arena, many students and/or parents would think quite easily - how could he/she be an Olympic coach and not have been found out by now?
Perhaps the USFSA should have a list of coaches who are permanently
banned, and why, then post said coaches up on the website so parents of skaters can check as they are exploring coaching options for their child. Also, I think a very good point has been raised. Funding money should not be going into the pockets of these coaches. Consequently, if a skater, or skaters choose to work with a coach who has been banned, they should understand that they will not be eligible for any monetary support from the USFSA as long as they continue taking lessons from that particular coach.
The US has alot of excellent coaches/choreographers who don't prey
on our talented athletes. So there are other choices.

[celtic]

Louis, I am really surprised and disappointed by your posts; apparently you are influenced by your friendship with the victim. Your insight is so consistenly good and your comments well thought out. You simply miss the point here: abuse of a minor by a person in a position of trust! The skater was 16 and 17 when this occurred. No one fesses up to anything earler than 17, because McKellen was smart enough this time to wait until legal age, something he did not do in another state. Unfortunately, those parents were talked out of prosecuting and opted for a no more coaching warning, which was obviously ignored.

Because one parent chose to support means it's okay? That parent, unfortunately, capitulated, despite all the evidence. I mean, one intance of the behavior was in California, where the mother was very close to successful in having criminal charges filed until the father refused to cooperate! Because the skater wanted to testify for him is ridiculous -- it doesn't make it right, only shows the degree of influence a coach had over an impressionable teen skater who relied on his judgment.

No, he will not be reinstated, not because of reasons you mention, but because he chose to simply ignore the complaint and refused to answer it. That, according to the USFSA grievance process, is admission of the wrongdoing.

A banned coach can coach and participate in club camps that are not USFSA sponsored, but the ban is permanent. The USFSA was contacted about this already. They are aware of his attempts to circumvent the ban and they ain't buying it. MOST people are outraged, a few are supportive and some don't care what a coach does as long as he brings results. Sad state.

[Skatewind]

The issue was whether or not the coach abused his position of authority. He clearly did. It would have made no difference whether the girl was going to testify for or against him. Further the coach in a situation with an underage skater is obligated not only the skater, but to the parents to act in the best interests of the skater. Generally speaking, people don't consider what happened in this situation to be in the best interests of the skater, even if a continuing relationship resulted. It should never have happened from the very beginning. It was the coach's responsibility to maintain a professional relationship. He did not, & there was a pattern to the misconduct, so there is really no defense. It is not a grey area, especially with the new rules in place.

[Skatewind]

celtic, here's a previous topic about Kerry Leitch:

Kerry Leitch (http://www.skatingforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=9190)

There have also been some interesting news articles & other mentions (like in Eisler's book) in the past.

Some of these coaches & skaters have a long history together & remain thick as thieves & are more than willing to overlook these pesky issues like misconduct by their colleagues. I doubt many of the skaters & parents who participate in his program are even aware of the situation, although as we know there are always a few who are willing participants.

[celtic]

Thanks for the link, Skatewind. Interesting and disturbing reading. Did you know Leitch's stepdaughter, Christine Hough, is now in Dallas, where her husband plays for the Dallas Stars.

[WeBeEducated]

Perhaps rink management at the Bradenton rink needs to have their eyes opened about the man they are advertising to children about for summer camps!
I was stunned when I saw that Gordie was being publicly touted as a draw for the camp.
I agree with celtic...the fact that a teenage girl who thinks she was "in love" with a coach might not want to "get him in trouble", but that in no way absolves him from guilt for unethical behavior. I dont care if she went after him initially, flirted, seduced, whatever(not saying that is what happened though)...it was his job to politely refuse, and guide her toward a more responsible form of coach-skater relationship.
He is guilty of unethical behavior and it is as simple and obvious as black and white can be. I dont see any grey area here, regardless of who decided it was forgivable.
The USFSA requires skaters to list the name of the coach.
Bob Young's skaters receive funding, and circumvent the rules by faking the name of the coach. I can see they are being taught high standards by their upstanding coach! :roll:
The USFSA needs to stop overlooking this fiasco.

[celtic]

I am sure the coach was the aggressor, like in the past instances.

Unfortunately, Leitch is the rink manager at Igloo. It wouldn't matter anyway, these good 'ole boys stick together and Leitch probably thinks he is doing an old friend a favor. And I think most of the parents don't get it: the coaches here are flaunting the USFSA's rules, and as long as their are parents who buy into this, they will succeed! Usually, it is the over-ambitious parents with skaters you'll never hear of who line up to buy lessons from these creeps.

[what?meworry?]

the odds are that he can't be kicked out. however, given the banning from usfsa, his buddies can be put on notice that if anything happens at any of the respective rinks involving young female skaters they are culpable.

it can be recommended that should any parent bring up the topic of concern over any kind of inappropriate attention, that it should be taken seriously.

rink management may choose to help a buddy earn a living but the spectre of big time lawsuit because of the management's prior knowledge of the accusations and a coach that was hired subsequent to his banning from usfsa, might give them pause.

[Little Bit]

Originally posted by celtic
Usually, it is the over-ambitious parents with skaters you'll never hear of who line up to buy lessons from these creeps.

That is so true just look at some other post on these forums.

[celtic]

More information unfolds in this sad mess: Some of the behavior by this coach occurred during an international competition, which means he was part of a U.S. team on travel sponsored by and paid for by the USFSA! And he expects to be reinstated???

[Sk84Fun]

With such a long history of Gordie and "little girls" why would anyone in their right mind let their child close to him?!!!!

[Little Bit]

Originally posted by Sk84Fun
With such a long history of Gordie and "little girls" why would anyone in their right mind let their child close to him?!!!!

One reason why I think is because parents do not know of this. When we started we had a coach who had a "drinking" problem. No one told us we had to find out the good old fashion way. I am glad I never leave my child alone with anyone. Not even the "trusted" coaches!

[celtic]

Sk84Fun, that's a good question. Little Bit mentions that a lot of people don't know, which is probably true for the majority of parents, and message boards like this hopefully can get the word out!

Coaches and Club officers should know, however. For example, the Dallas FSC has current officers who are well aware of the situation, yet one of the officers has a daughter who takes lessons from him, and the parents are still supporters. Another officer was on the board back when it gave the coach a personal loan from its funds! This is a USFSA club, whose parent organization permanently banned the coach from membership, yet some of its leaders are certainly not getting the message to its own members! And why does the club at the Igloo rink not get the word out to its members about his presence at the celebrity camps?

[Schmeck]

My former USFSA club put up with an abusive coach for years (mostly verbal, rumors of physical, physical not proven), before one person finally got the guts to not renew the coach's contract for teaching club sponsored lessons. The families that had their kids enrolled in the basic skills programs, etc., had no clue about the situation until it was over. The backlash from the non-renewal was very bad. Very angry parents, people who had no business getting involved got nasty too. It was the worst skating situation I've ever seen, and it was just about not renewing a contract!

So, I can see how many skaters' parents can/will ignore the obvious, just to get what they want. I can also see how management/administration will also ignore the obvious, just to make money.

[what?meworry?]

i don't doubt your assessment of your local club situation.

however, i caution, having seen and heard about enough retaliatory attacks against coaches who for good reason, dismissed a skater/parent from a training program, that all that is rumored is not necessarily true.

skaters have been asked to leave because of physical or verbal abuse of partners, for constant debate and argument over training, for yelling at and arguing with partner and coach constantly to the point of not being able to train without a coach acting as a referee, and all sorts of other unworkable, problematic behaviours.

so i caution to initially take any accusations with a grain of salt until you can inquire of responsible (if there are any) individuals or of enough different individuals around the source, about the real deal of any situation.

for example, the situation with naomi/peter when they left dsc. there are plenty confirmed eyewitness reports that some of the above contributed the the effective "dismissal" by igor (he just stops working with them). some aspects of this also contributed to the departure of eve/matt from dsc (and his subsequent departure from the rink in dallas after the team split). and then the inevitable rise and fall of rumors about the coaches followed.

the facts of the move, the split, and the secondary move are indisputable, but the complete "why" is only known factually by the individuals involved, of course. i do, though, trust my sources here but continue to be wary of information if there are widely contradictory reports.

[Schmeck]

what?meworry?, thank you for the advice. I understand the warning about the truth behind rumors, especially in the skating community. In this case, there was substantial evidence, and written testimonials submitted to the board. The board just never had the guts to do anything about it, until one person took the initiative.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by Schmeck
...In this case, there was substantial evidence, and written testimonials submitted to the board. The board just never had the guts to do anything about it, until one person took the initiative.

i think this is an excellent point. accusations of such serious behaviours should be documented and the parties who have the grievance and those who directly observe the behaviours should present it over their own signatures, not anonymously.
i initially doubted the postings that eventually lead to the david lowery indictments and challenged we-be-ed effectively to "put up or shut up." they certainly did.
conversely, i challenged a couple posters who accused coaches (while thinly veiling the coaches' identities) of serious wrongdoings to "warn" skating parents to stay away from them. but this time there were only excuses as to why they couldn't/shouldn't/wouldn't actually DO anything formally about it (didn't want to reveal their identities to usfsa or the appropriate authorities who could do something about those wrongdoings). that smelled of personal vendettas and i didn't find any corroborating "rumors" either.

[Skatewind]

Originally posted by celtic
Coaches and Club officers should know, however. For example, the Dallas FSC has current officers who are well aware of the situation, yet one of the officers has a daughter who takes lessons from him, and the parents are still supporters. Another officer was on the board back when it gave the coach a personal loan from its funds! This is a USFSA club, whose parent organization permanently banned the coach from membership, yet some of its leaders are certainly not getting the message to its own members!
Hopefully they have directors/officers insurance for their club, because those situations can be a lawsuit in the making. Loaning club funds to a coach (for personal reasons) is not generally considered an appropriate use of club funds, particularly if they are a 501c3 organization. Sounds like it's simply asking for trouble.

[celtic]

Originally posted by Skatewind
Hopefully they have directors/officers insurance for their club, because those situations can be a lawsuit in the making. Loaning club funds to a coach (for personal reasons) is not generally considered an appropriate use of club funds, particularly if they are a 501c3 organization. Sounds like it's simply asking for trouble.

This loan was made to help lure McKellen to Dallas, and was done by the Board during Southwesterns. Word leaked out, but not to everyone. When discovered and presented to the 2001 Board officers, the then-President minimized it by saying it was just helping out a coach, just like the club did for skater assistance, and the matter was closed. The loan was in the amount of $2,000, and the treasurer at the time is still treasurer. (The loan was eventually re-paid.) A club member did notify the IRS in 2001, but it is unknown if any action was taken. This is inurement: money for the personal benefit of a member. The club IS a 501c3 organization.

Unfortunately, this particular club, as mentioned before, has officers who are supporters of the banned coach. The current president recommended the current vp to the board, even with the knowledge of that person's support. Of course, a club officer supporter isn't going to notify club members of the ban or its nature!

I wish the USFSA would list banned members on their website, as someone else earlier suggested.

[WeBeEducated]

Very disappointing but not surprising to know the dirty tricks of some in power there in Texas.
If they want to maintain the status quo and protect both their actions in regards to the loan and in support of a banned coach they will do everything possible to minimize it and to blame others who object.

I often wonder what wondeful skating we would be enjoying now from the girl involved, (who was as beautiful as she was talented), if her skating had not been jeopardized by Gordie's influence.
what a shame...and what a pity that club officers passively approve of his actions.

I think the clubs should not be allowed to hire a coach who is banned from the USFSA! Otherwise, it is a meaningless ban, just a smokescreen.

[dejaview]

Originally posted by WeBeEducated

I think the clubs should not be allowed to hire a coach who is banned from the USFSA! Otherwise, it is a meaningless ban, just a smokescreen.

Absolutely right! It's not as if there are alot of banned coaches to keep track of. Perhaps the USFSA could have a well known area on the website where parents and skaters could check to see if a coach has been banned BEFORE they hire a coach. In addition, this would enable club officers and club members to check the website before they hire a coach. These coaches are professionals and should be held accountable for their actions. The USFSA has only banned a few coaches in the history of the organization. This fact alone should speak to how serious being banned from the USFSA for life really is.

How many of our talented athletes have quit before realizing their potential because of the actions of a predatory coach?

[Louis]

Originally posted by WeBeEducated

I often wonder what wondeful skating we would be enjoying now from the girl involved, (who was as beautiful as she was talented), if her skating had not been jeopardized by Gordie's influence.

The young woman involved has talents other than skating that she is now happily pursuing. Last I talked to her, she was doing fantastically in college, enjoying a little bit of coaching on the side, and had the world at her fingertips.

When I saw her at Nationals last year, she was positively exuberant and the happiest I have ever seen her. I would like nothing more than for her to still be skating because she was one of my favorite skaters of all-time, but I don't think she had the mindset or the heart for competitive skating. I'm willing to bet she would agree with me.

I don't like the situation either, but at some point, I think two adults deserve respect for their life choices, as mystifying as they may seem. The young woman in question has a lot going for her, and she'll make out fine in life with or without Gordie McKellen. The situation might be different if she had dropped out of school, gone to live with him, etc., but that's not the case.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by Louis
...I don't like the situation either, but at some point, I think two adults deserve respect for their life choices, as mystifying as they may seem...

with all due respect, i would offer that at the time of the initiation of the situation, the young woman was not an adult. we heal. we make the most of our situations. many a literary piece has addressed the path not followed.

we don't really know, nor does she, what her future happiness might have been had it not been interrupted by this letcherous, preditory coach.

do my feelings betray me?

[Skatewind]

Originally posted by Louis
I don't like the situation either, but at some point, I think two adults deserve respect for their life choices, as mystifying as they may seem.
Two adults can make whatever choices they want. That's not a good explanation of what happened in this situation or why he was banned. I would also add that if two adults want to make whatever choices they want, then they also must agree to accept the consequences, good or bad, for their actions. If it means one of them wants to blatantly violate standard coaching conduct & a professional code of ethics & then is banned for life, then maybe he is the one who needs accept his fate & move on from coaching. He may be an adult, but he certainly hasn't conducted himself like one, & I don't see any reason why anyone should feel compelled to respect either his life or career choices after this whole fiasco.

[celtic]

Louis, you always have a positive comment and look for the good. We all can learn from your example. But I do take issue with some of your comments. First, why is she so happy? I am afraid her happiness is propped up by the coach, and if that prop is removed, what happens? Second, did she actually make the choice to quit skating? Probably not, it was a result of a terrible situation. I agree wholeheartedly with WeBe -- I also wonder what wonderful skating we would be enjoying now, and the skater herself would be enjoying. Ironic that the coach leaves things in shambles and proceeds to self-centeredly attempt to be reinstated and coach again! Do you realize that several lives were affected, and one divorce caused by his reckless and immoral behavior???

And third, I disagree that these were choices made by two adults!!! Please! Remember when this happened she had just turned 17, and the coach had already set his trap before that, during her 16th year. What would her life be like had he not repeated his past predatory behavior on this his latest victim? One teen-ager would be immoral, unprofessional and warped, but two (at least)? That is a pattern, and a predatory one at that. The passage of time does NOT change the wrong he did, because at the time she was a vulnerable, innocent, naive skater who placed her trust in a person of authority.

I wish her the best of everything: education, happiness, health, and a good life, but she has lost so much and given up so much.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by Skatewind
Two adults can make whatever choices they want. That's not a good explanation of what happened in this situation or why he was banned. I would also add that if two adults want to make whatever choices they want, then they also must agree to accept the consequences, good or bad, for their actions. If it means one of them wants to blatantly violate standard coaching conduct & a professional code of ethics & then is banned for life, then maybe he is the one who needs accept his fate & move on from coaching. He may be an adult, but he certainly hasn't conducted himself like one, & I don't see any reason why anyone should feel compelled to respect either his life or career choices after this whole fiasco.
:bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:
for skatewind.
i would have used clapping hands but they don't offer them.

[celtic]

I would like to join you in the applause, and a standing ovation! Skatewind, your comments summed the situation up perfectly :bow: :bow: :bow:

A closing remark: hopefully this thread will get the word out and educate some people who have choices to make about who coaches their children. The president of Southwest Florida FSC, based at the Igloo rink in Ellenton, will receive a copy of the thread and hopefully will share it with club members. It is ultimately up to rink mangement who is allowed to coach, but at least club parents will be armed with knowledge to make informed decisions about their skaters participating in sessions with banned coaches.

[IgglesII]

I don't like the situation either, but at some point, I think two adults deserve respect for their life choices, as mystifying as they may seem.

Two adults, yes. When they're equals. A coach/student or teacher/student relationship is an unequal situation with one party holding significant power/sway over the other. The student in that situation is not in a position to make a decision like that as an equal.

[oldtimersk8s]

Am I right in hearing a very sad rumor that McKellen has perpetrated again in Jan of this year?

[SkateFan123]

Am I right in hearing a very sad rumor that McKellen has perpetrated again in Jan of this year?And where did you hear that rumor? Or are you starting it?

[oldtimersk8s]

First of all, I can tell you that I was told this it came from 2 different very reliable sources out of the midwest. I was told for a very,very good, the best of reasons. So... no I am not starting this rumor. it is already out there!
Secondly, I am sorry I even posted this.... if I should erase that post if it offends you, or it is wrong to ask this, I can erase it. We can just keep this a secret! Somemore times!! I did think after viewing this forum I was safe to ask this question. I am sorry if that post was wrong. We can just wait to see if the girls family is willing to suffer...openly.. and let it hit the papers. Or keep it hidden like SO MANY DO. It took a lot of courage for me to post that, You have no idea. How else can I find out? I am not asking around the rinks just here. I am sorry this would strike you as a rumor and it is interesting that you would think anyone would make something like that up, and then post it. That never even crossed my mind.

[SkateFan123]

First of all, I can tell you that I was told this it came from 2 different very reliable sources out of the midwest. I was told for a very,very good, the best of reasons. So... no I am not starting this rumor. it is already out there!
Secondly, I am sorry I even posted this.... if I should erase that post if it offends you, or it is wrong to ask this, I can erase it. We can just keep this a secret! Somemore times!! I did think after viewing this forum I was safe to ask this question. I am sorry if that post was wrong. We can just wait to see if the girls family is willing to suffer...openly.. and let it hit the papers. Or keep it hidden like SO MANY DO. It took a lot of courage for me to post that, You have no idea. How else can I find out? I am not asking around the rinks just here. I am sorry this would strike you as a rumor and it is interesting that you would think anyone would make something like that up, and then post it. That never even crossed my mind.
Were charges filed? Was a civil suit filed?

As far as people making things up on the Internet, not saying you have, it's been done before. If it's already out there, where/how? I couldn't find anything which doesn't mean it's not out there but it is why I asked the question. If my asking offends you, I'm sorry. But when someone states something so serious, it's reasonable to ask questions.

[SkateFan123]

First of all, I can tell you that I was told this it came from 2 different very reliable sources out of the midwest. I was told for a very,very good, the best of reasons. So... no I am not starting this rumor. it is already out there!
Secondly, I am sorry I even posted this.... if I should erase that post if it offends you, or it is wrong to ask this, I can erase it. We can just keep this a secret! Somemore times!! I did think after viewing this forum I was safe to ask this question. I am sorry if that post was wrong. We can just wait to see if the girls family is willing to suffer...openly.. and let it hit the papers. Or keep it hidden like SO MANY DO. It took a lot of courage for me to post that, You have no idea. How else can I find out? I am not asking around the rinks just here. I am sorry this would strike you as a rumor and it is interesting that you would think anyone would make something like that up, and then post it. That never even crossed my mind.
Were charges filed? Was a civil suit filed?

As far as people making things up on the Internet, not saying you have, it's been done before. If it's already out there, where/how? I couldn't find anything which doesn't mean it's not out there but it is why I asked the question. If my asking offends you, I'm sorry. But when someone states something so serious, it's reasonable to ask questions. I'd appreciate any information you can provide.

[oldtimersk8s]

It is a very reliable source, that is why I bothered to ask. TOO early for charges and filings. I guess it is time to wait...and see. :?? I will not tell the whole rumor and all it's details in a posting. It is seedy, and hurtful. I believe what I heard is very very true. Lay it to rest for now, I guess. Gordy has Quite a network if it stays quiet. Thank you.

[celtic]

I don't doubt your honest or sincerity, but I somehow have trouble accepting this rumor. The coach lives in the Dallas area and does very limited coaching locally, and as far as anyone knows, the only out-of-area coaching is at the annual skate camp in Florida. Last I heard he had another, full time job that was totally unrelated to skating. This could be the rumor mill gone mad, who knows? I just don't see where the opportunity presented itself. Who in the midwest, where he used to coach and where is past reputation is well known, would hire him?

[WeBeEducated]

First of all, I can tell you that I was told this it came from 2 different very reliable sources out of the midwest. I was told for a very,very good, the best of reasons. So... no I am not starting this rumor. it is already out there!
Secondly, I am sorry I even posted this.... if I should erase that post if it offends you, or it is wrong to ask this, I can erase it. We can just keep this a secret! Somemore times!! I did think after viewing this forum I was safe to ask this question. I am sorry if that post was wrong. We can just wait to see if the girls family is willing to suffer...openly.. and let it hit the papers. Or keep it hidden like SO MANY DO. It took a lot of courage for me to post that, You have no idea. How else can I find out? I am not asking around the rinks just here. I am sorry this would strike you as a rumor and it is interesting that you would think anyone would make something like that up, and then post it. That never even crossed my mind.

I think the news is more than a rumour.
Thanks for the info oldtime...hopefully the girl's family will pursue it, but I know for a fact that they will be treated like villians, and he will continue to receive various forms of support from the skating world.
sad but true
Kudos for sending a copy of this thread to the Florida club hosting Gordie's seminar (to whoever sent it)!!!
The USFSA needs to address the issue of the "ban" and how it is not preventing any banned coach from being directly involved in the coaching of USFSA athletes!

[WeBeEducated]

oldtime...could you at least give us the rink area please?
Chicago?
Kansas?
Can we have that info so that the puzzle pieces can be put together?

[celtic]

There is more info on the banned coach and his star billing at the Florida "celebrity camp" in the thread about Kerry Leitch selling Champions Training Centre. Informative reading. . . .

[celtic]

The IRS was notified, and a loan of this type is perfectly legal. It is not considered inurement for personal benefit.

This is a pure outright untruth! When the issue came up in an open board meeting in early 2001, the then and present Treasurer said nothing. The President in 2001 looked shocked and at the next meeting said "it was just like money to help one of the skaters and the matter is closed" or something to that effect. The treasurer then asked that any mention of it in the minutes be struck, which was not done because this was in an open meeting. The treasurer also never wanted the amounts given to skaters for assistance be put in the minutes. Every attempt was made to keep it hidden!

Do not tell me this was perfectly legal. The person who reported it in 2002 to the IRS said the IRS said it was inurement and against requirements of a 501(c)(3) organization. When I personally called the IRS last week two of their representatives said any money given to a member for personal benefit is against regulations and the organization could be fined or lose their 501(c)(3) status. Apparently because this happened so long ago and was not made general knowledge for so long, nothing happened.

It worries me that Earlyriser was either a board member or a close relative of a board member and is justifying this type of behavior! Do not be misled -- this is never acceptable behavior by a 50l(c)(3) organization.

And what is also problematic is that all this energy is expended about something that was covered up for so long, and also that the club president in 2001 stated that the club did not hire coaches -- well, they advertised in Skating magazine, did interviews, and issued front money to this coach. Disappointing they didn't spend all this energy doing background interviews -- this issue of liking young female skaters was well known in Chicago and Rockford!

Why doesn't the Dallas FSC board let us know if any other members got personal loans! Anyone out there need money???

And it is insulting to other coaches within the Dallas FSC that the club was looking for top quality coaches when they already had Lorraine Borman, Olympic coach, Staci McMullin, who took several skaters to Nationals and was a Junior World team member, national and international medalist, Pierre Panayi, a former world team member for Britain, Peter Cain, Olympic skater from Australia, etc., etc.. The admission by earlyriser that the club was looking to get coaches proves they were, in fact, instrumental in bringing coaches to the area. I think that opens them up to a lawsuit. Shame no one sued over this mess.

There is a choice in Dallas, though: The Stars FSC, formerly Lone Star FSC, is the only club in the StarCenter rinks now. StarCenter coaches must be members of USFS and ISI and I'm not sure about PSA. They must have insurance from one of those entities.

[leafericson]

Earlyriser this may be true about the club. I don't know... And it is too bad that Rockford didn't do more. Now one can see that. Well, what he got away with in Ill. that's ancient history. Those people will probably not come forward after all these years. If they didn't want this TYPE of scandel for themselves then why would they now??? This is all part of the problem. It is unfair to use that in your argument and to pose that on Celtic.
Now he has been banned and it's out that he had earlier sexual encounters elsewhere, with no action taken,(it's not like people are saying..."oh poor Gordie this never happened before", alot of people know his tangeled webs, and sorted character from the past) and now is in this Dallas situation,
is why stronger USFS action should be added to innapropiate behavior bans inorder to save minors from the good ol' boys systems of snaking him back into coaching.
Possible future scenario......As Gordan gets older and he looses his little boy appeal and he is around students crying, what then? When he creates and manufactures himself another comforting type situation and the girl says... no! And then he continues to force himself because 'she wanted it' is it called rape then? Is this what we have to wait for?
Coaches who open themselves up to these types of immoral or sticky situations and then do get caught should be banned just like in any other sport no matter who they are. When Gordie realized that this girl was in trouble what was he thinking of? He should have moved her out or gotten her council. He should not have pulled her into A 'romantic web'! He most likely thought he wouldn't get caught and get in trouble! Gordie should be made an example of in the stricktest way. I believe his consequences are not severe enough. Earlyriser...Yes, he does tend to whine and cry, like a little boy that never grew up, if you have ever talked to him, you may even characterize him as possibly being very emmotionally stinted.

Pete Rose gambled. He as far as I know didn't involve sex with a minor! Pete Rose is still out of the game after all these years for 'gambling'.
Earlyriser, sexual abuse aftermath lingers for years. This is why Gordie should be strung out to hang for all of the problems this is still causing in Dallas and now in Florida! Gordie will be long gone someday and Dallas will still be fighting.
A physician looses his license when sex with a patient is involved, an attorney or an accountant for money laundering a high school teacher for having affairs with students. Why should Gordie or Lowery be above the law? What makes them so special? Are these men better than anyone else not to recieve the PROPER consequenses?
And if Pete came back into baseball he wouldn't be coaching minor teenage girls. SO.....What is the comparison?
Coaches who have any urges of any type of abuse that attract them to minors like this (either sex)at any time and it does not matter what the excuse is should be banned once caught and kept away from coaching minors at all times!

[celtic]

Don't even get into touting about the Dallas coaches.

I simply listed some of the better-known ones because in one of your long posts you mentioned that the Club was trying to bring a high-level coach to the area. Now you are trying to imply that those named coaches have problems. NONE of them has ethical complaints against them!

Wasn't this about Gordie anyway? . . . In the meantime leave him alone. ]

Yes, it was, and thanks for reminding me to bring the subject back to where it belongs. You are correct. No, I will not leave him alone, if it takes me and other posters to get the word out about him, as long as he continues to coach. He is still trying to do that, and as long as I am aware of that, this will continue. You in your own words said he has a right to try to coach, which is unbelievable! Regardless of what you think, people are not trying to hurt him in any other career choices. But people will speak out if he continues to remain in this career.

[celtic]

. . . best interests of the skaters may very well not be at stake. (referring to changing clubs).

What do you imply by this?

If she is a Lone Star member and is happy, that's fine,

I am not a member of any club in that area.

You seem like a very angry person. Now you have villified the Lone Star Club and the Dallas Stars as well.

[Skatewind]

Fact: A figure skating club may LOAN a coach money for the purpose of bringing said coach to the area. An outright gift is not legal. This was a loan.

Why don't you all who want to hang Gordie out to dry go don some white sheets and go to his house?
Another Fact: Most people working in the non-profit field find it inappropriate to loan organizational funds to an individual for personal purposes, which is why you would never see a motion on the table for this by the vast majority of organizations.

Another fact: There are some people who work in non-profits who will abuse the privilege & the funds of the organization every chance they get, often manipulating budgets & situations for some personal gain even if it's not financial. Then there are other people who will understand they are being tasked to manage funds for altruistic purposes & will try to bring some selflessness to the table in order to make responsible decisions for their organization & the goals of the non-profit world accordingly.

Regarding your other observation, I have nothing personal against McKellen, but I do have a real interest in making sure abusive coaches are removed from the teaching arena to help break the cycle of abuse. And I strongly feel it's an idea that is long overdue for implementation. Some of us have come here to discuss this topic from the viewpoint of organizational business & try & improve the situation for future generations; & you want to "play the race card" & post inflammatory statements because you don't care for the content we have to share?

[celtic]

To clarify, I said Gordie has a right to TRY to coach, try being the operative word. You have the right to try to stop him. But I do know that the mother has made several threatening calls to employers and prospective employers in an attempt to get him fired from his non skating job. That is the part that I feel should stop. . . .

Response:
(1) I can tell you that the mother WANTS McKellen to succeed in another line of work and has NEVER contacted a non-skating employer. That would defeat the purpose of his working in another career field. Where do you get such misinformation??? Everyone has a right to make a decent living. Let him do saleswork or marketing or whatever. Now she DID contact rinks where he was supposedly going to work, but so did many other people in the area who were outraged that they would hire him and their kids might skate there. Her concern, and others share it, is with the coaching.

Regardless of the truth, at what point do you want to know every detail of a person's private life? Again, I don't condone what Gordie did, but there are plenty of other things that other coaches have done and people continue to take from these coaches. What about drinking, other infidelties, religious differences, sexual identity, lying, yelling, screaming, abuse of other skaters, etc., things that you don't agree with? What about the allegations against someone like Callaghan, dismissed on a technicality? Would you take from him if there was any doubt? At what point do you separate the things you don't like about them personally from their coaching abilities?

Response: You just keep at it: now you are lumping together other types of behavior and comparing it to Gordie having sex with at least one of his skaters while he was in a position of authority (coach) with her. Stick to the facts at hand. We are NOT discussing every Tom, Dick and Harry here. And I repeat, again, that whether or not they are still together is a symptom of his power over her, not a mitigating factor!

[celtic]

Unfortunately, much that has been posted has been inflammatory. That is regrettable and I do apologize for heated comments. However, I did not attack Earlyriser personally. I feel that mean and inflammatory comments were made about the mother especially, other coaches in the Dallas area, rink owners, etc., all in defense of McKellen. He isn't worth our anger or defense. To defend him by attacking others is not worth it.

I do feel that my comments about the loan are valid, and when I explained in detail to the IRS reps (2), that it was a loan to a teaching professional for a lot to build on and would be repaid, they both said it was inurement. That is where I got my info from, and I do feel the club at the time kept it quiet. You, Earlyriser, however, have been very open about your explanation, which is commendable.

I, too, was there throughout and much of my info is firsthand and/or from trusted sources. The good result of all this is the huge amount of interest it has created on this board, and will get the info out to many skaters, parents, and others in skating about the situation at the heart of the debates.

[sk8pics]

To clarify, I said Gordie has a right to TRY to coach, try being the operative word. ...
Gordie's punishment is pretty severe.

I have no idea of any of the specifics of this situation, except for what I've read here, and of course the notice in Skating Magazine. But I'm curious about your statement above. Why do you say he has a right to try to coach, if the main governing body/organization for figure skating in this country has banned him from coaching or involvement with the organization? You may feel his punishment is too severe, or not, but that's a separate issue. It seems like he is trying to do something he is not supposed to be allowed to do, so I'm curious about your wording.

Pat

[dejaview]

[QUOTE=Earlyriser] To some, he is a dangerous sexual predator. To others, he had some weak moments, believing he was a charmer, a relationship was formed, and they choose not to judge his personal life. So right or wrong, the system allows him to coach wherever the market will bear if there are willing parties. QUOTE

And there in lies the problem. The "willing parties" have a right to know the full story. It would be different if the USFSA had not felt strongly enough to ban this coach for life - but they did. That's only happened twice in the history of the USFSA. :frus:

[SkateFan123]

[QUOTE=Earlyriser] To some, he is a dangerous sexual predator. To others, he had some weak moments, believing he was a charmer, a relationship was formed, and they choose not to judge his personal life. So right or wrong, the system allows him to coach wherever the market will bear if there are willing parties. QUOTE

And there in lies the problem. The "willing parties" have a right to know the full story. It would be different if the USFSA had not felt strongly enough to ban this coach for life - but they did. That's only happened twice in the history of the USFSA. :frus:
I only know of two also: Jackie Mero and Tonya Harding. Although not a coach at the time of being banned, Tonya is not allowed to participate in any USFS event.

About Tonya
http://www.sciencedaily.com/encyclopedia/tonya_harding

About Jackie
http://www.freep.com/sports/othersports/skate16_20031016.htm

The USFS site yeilds no results when searching for any other banned coach or Gordie McKellan. I wrote the USFS about this and have yet to receive a response.

[dejaview]

I only know of two also: Jackie Mero and Tonya
The USFS site yeilds no results when searching for any other banned coach or Gordie McKellan. I wrote the USFS about this and have yet to receive a response.

Well, then there are more than two because, there is a coach in Connecticut, still coaching a pair team. The USFS evidently banned him for life a couple years ago, and yet the pair team he coaches receives money from the USFS and that's how they pay him. So, even though these coaches are not able to go to USFS sanctioned events to coach, they are still receiving USFS funding. That's a little weird.

[Skatewind]

Bob Young has also been banned.

There are a couple other coaches I can think of offhand whose time has come & who should be banned or voluntarily retire. The problem is that the skaters I know who suffered abuse from them experienced it in the '80s & early '90s. They are now adults with obvious problems because of it, but the USFSA policy which helps skaters in this area was initiated only a few years ago so it was not in time to assist them. And in their cases it was not only limited to this kind of abuse, but also things like misappropriation of training funds in the case of at least one coach in order to buy drugs off the street & other assorted "leadership" of this type.

In the many articles I have been reading about the young athletes, Future Champions interviews, etc, these skaters state time & time again that their coach is one of the most influential people in their lives (or the most influential). One has to ask if these abusive & unethical coaches are the ones we want influencing our young skaters who are the future of the organization.

I hope whenever the USFSA gets a case where there is documented evidence of a coach with demonstrated misconduct & illegal activity of this type, the coach will be given a clear message that it is time to move on to a new career. Acting on the problems & resolving them objectively & responsibly despite a coach's influence, past history with the organization or who knows who, is what will gain credibility for the USFSA when it comes to these matters. It's nothing that other sports organizations in the '90s & today haven't had to deal with too, since others have also recently reviewed policy in this area just like the USFSA, but it's a housecleaning that is long overdue.

[celtic]

I'll try to explain. Gordie has, of course, accepted his punishment from the USFSA and not made any attempt to circumvent that decision by seeking to coach at a USFSA sanctioned event. The USFSA does not control every rink, though, only their events, and if Gordie wants to seek out a rink that is willing to hire him, right or wrong, he has that right. People have different views on what he did, and although the majority think this occurance and previously alleged occurances show he is not worthy of ever coaching again, there are those who do support him or choose neutrality and will use him as a coach. His behavior was unethical as a coach, but the relationship has stood the test of time, and some people give the both of them the benefit of the doubt that they truly were and are in love and it was consensual and legal in the eyes of the law. If Gordie feels he wants to fight the ban, he has that right too, although I don't believe he is actively trying to. To some, he is a dangerous sexual predator. To others, he had some weak moments, believing he was a charmer, a relationship was formed, and they choose not to judge his personal life. So right or wrong, the system allows him to coach wherever the market will bear if there are willing parties. Anyone has a right to appeal anything. Whether they will prevail is another story.

You have stated your view very well here, and a few do agree with you. You have included many points in your statement to think about.

I am not giving any personal opinion here, but do want to point out a few things: whether or not a relationship still exists does not in any way change the findings or the ban. When the coach refused to answer the grievance, he lost his right to appeal. That is in the rules of the grievance procedure. A relationship between a student and a person in a position of authority is not considered as a consensual relationship between equals by schools, sports governing bodies, etc. And again and again, whether or not it was "legal" in the state in which it occurred has nothing to do with the ban. This ban is not about legality of this relationship, and I want readers to distinguish this. This relationship would have been illegal in most states when it started, and even in states with a lower age of consent, most have clauses about positions of trust.

That said, I want to repeat that the above is not my personal opinion, just a little more information which gives a more complete picture.

[dejaview]

[QUOTE=Skatewind]Young has also been banned.

I'm assuming this is the coach from Connecticut?
Is it true that he coaches a nationaly ranked pair team?
Why are they still with him if they know he's been banned? Maybe they don't know - which is the point of this thread. Again :frus:

[SkateFan123]

Well, then there are more than two because, there is a coach in Connecticut, still coaching a pair team. The USFS evidently banned him for life a couple years ago, and yet the pair team he coaches receives money from the USFS and that's how they pay him. So, even though these coaches are not able to go to USFS sanctioned events to coach, they are still receiving USFS funding. That's a little weird.
I only listed those who I could find articles on. I thought Bob Young was banned too but the USFS website does not yield a thing about it.

Your account is weird, USFS money pays for the coach via the student but can't attend events. Interesting. Seems like a double edge sword.

I wonder why the USFS doesn't list all banned coaches on their website?

[Skatewind]

Probably because it is a relatively new policy so they haven't worked out all these details yet. It would require committee work, board approval, legal consultation, etc. They definitely should have the collective information available somewhere. I can see why they wouldn't post it for the general public on the web site, but it could certainly be included under members only.

They also need to shut the door on the training funds to skaters who want to use the banned coaches too. It could be made a part of the skater agreement if they want to accept the funds.

[SkateFan123]

Probably because it is a relatively new policy so they haven't worked out all these details yet. It would require committee work, board approval, legal consultation, etc. They definitely should have the collective information available somewhere. I can see why they wouldn't post it for the general public on the web site, but it could certainly be included under members only.

They also need to shut the door on the training funds to skaters who want to use the banned coaches too. It could be made a part of the skater agreement if they want to accept the funds.I agree with the second about valid uses of funds received.

As to the first statement, why shouldn't findings be posted for general viewing? First, anyone wanting to become a member to see postings there could become a member. You could even do it online with false identity if you wanted to.

Second, if the information used to make the determination to ban a coach is factual, printing it poses no liability. If the information is speculative, then it should not be posted in an official capacity.

If the USFS does not post information on banned coaches, then how could a skater determine if they are using their USFS fund money to pay for banned coaches? By posting information, it would be readily available for all to see and judge for themselves.

[dejaview]

They also need to shut the door on the training funds to skaters who want to use the banned coaches too. It could be made a part of the skater agreement if they want to accept the funds.

What a sensible idea. Quite frankly, I can't understand why this hasn't been done. Perhaps because the USFS had no idea that someone who has been banned from coaching would actualy want to stick around, or that they're skaters wouldn't ideally want a coach who could go to USFS sanctioned events. What do they do, just compete without a coach? I can't believe that as hard as these kids must work to get where they are, and as much money as they must being paying at that level, they wouldn't want a coach with them at competition.

[Skatewind]

This is a business related matter so USFSA's primary consideration is to the organization & skaters. There is all kinds of business related information that is not posted on the web site & the USFSA is a member & club organization. They need to provide the information to their members & clubs & other affiliated organizations like PSA & ISI. Or notify the proper authorities in the event of a complaint of child abuse, etc.

If a skater is in a team envelope & eligible for funds, then he or she is a member & would have access to the members information on the website if the information is made available. I was pointing out the members only option as one that is available. I don't necessarily disagree with the idea of the USFSA posting the information publicly, I simply feel it should not be expected of them to notify the general public & it is solely up to the organization if they want to post it that way. It is a member based sporting organization, not law enforcement or a public court system.

[Trillian]

I'm assuming this is the coach from Connecticut?
Is it true that he coaches a nationaly ranked pair team?
Why are they still with him if they know he's been banned? Maybe they don't know - which is the point of this thread.

No, they'd have to be fully aware of it--first of all, they know their coach isn't eligible to act in an official capacity at USFSA events or to travel with them to international events, so there's no way they wouldn't know. However, the female half of the team, who is 17 now, has been coached by Young for many, many years, and she and her family have stood by him. Her partner came along after the scandal had already surfaced, but evidently he doesn't mind either. Which is true of a lot of people in the sport--one reason Young has been able to continue working and receiving USFSA funding is because he's got a lot of extremely powerful friends.

[WeBeEducated]

No, they'd have to be fully aware of it--first of all, they know their coach isn't eligible to act in an official capacity at USFSA events or to travel with them to international events, so there's no way they wouldn't know. However, the female half of the team, who is 17 now, has been coached by Young for many, many years, and she and her family have stood by him. Her partner came along after the scandal had already surfaced, but evidently he doesn't mind either. Which is true of a lot of people in the sport--one reason Young has been able to continue working and receiving USFSA funding is because he's got a lot of extremely powerful friends.
Yes, he has their support, which is sad.
Have you ever read the details of just some of his methods he used on the girl who filed the grievance? Check out the Silent Edge website, her story is on there.
Absolutely sickening.
And I think everyone knows that the next girl he went after (when she was just 15) also had her skating and life messed up because of his influence.

No team/skater should be able to collect USFSA money if they are using a banned coach.

[Trillian]

No team/skater should be able to collect USFSA money if they are using a banned coach.

I fully agree with that in theory, but the problem with enforcing it is that the skaters list someone else as their official coach, and there's only so much they can do to monitor that. I mean, in this case, it's pretty well known (the pair's official site even still lists his name), but I could see other situations being trickier and then how do you apply the rule fairly? Right now the USFSA relies on the skaters and/or their families to report the name of the coach, and as long as that's the case, it becomes problematic to say, "Yeah, but everyone knows you're really working with so-and-so." Unless they're going to travel the country checking to see who the skaters are spending time with at the rink each day, anyway.

So unfortunately I don't see this rule happening anytime soon--especially when banned coaches have friends in the USFSA, or friends who donate a lot of money to the USFSA, who will speak up for them. I am glad that the banned coach's name has been eliminated from the USFSA bio (although I see his wife's name is now listed instead :P), but that doesn't really solve the problem of this coach receiving USFSA money in spite of his status.

[what?meworry?]

given that no banned coach should recieve usfsa funding, even in a round'bout way, i would suggest that a video camera is a very useful tool.

i would even go so far as to suggest that the possibly surrogate "wife" coach solicits suspicion in a big way (and given the circumstances, why is she still with him???), it would warrent a close investigation by usfsa, even if only one individual reports it.

the credibility of usfsa's policies on abuse are at risk of being considered only a wink and a nod otherwise.

[WeBeEducated]

given that no banned coach should recieve usfsa funding, even in a round'bout way, i would suggest that a video camera is a very useful tool.

i would even go so far as to suggest that the possibly surrogate "wife" coach solicits suspicion in a big way (and given the circumstances, why is she still with him???), it would warrent a close investigation by usfsa, even if only one individual reports it.

the credibility of usfsa's policies on abuse are at risk of being considered only a wink and a nod otherwise.
I agree. And since when is falsifying records NOT unethical behavior by a coach? So the wife is setting herself up for a reprimand too the way I see it.
So she /he is telling young skaters to lie on their forms, the USFSA is aware of it, and it is deemed ethical??
a wink and a nod is right!

[dejaview]

So she /he is telling young skaters to lie on their forms, the USFSA is aware of it, and it is deemed ethical??
a wink and a nod is right!

Last Nationals, evidently he coached from the stands. :?? He tried coaching from the boards and was kicked out, then unfortunately USFS could not kick him out of the public arena. I would be so over this guy if I was an athlete working hard to get ahead. In looking at their bio, unfortunately this team has none done great after the first year together. Why not work with a coach that can give them everything they need. (Like being able to go to the competitions for starters) My other question is this - even though the girl has been with him for a long time, why would they pay money to a coach who is moraly and ethically weak? (understatement)

[WeBeEducated]

The Pair team is probably being fed a pack of lies about how he was innocent , how the girls were "after money", how he was being treated unfairly, etc., and he probably is offering some kind of perk. He also probably acts as if nothing is wrong. The level of ego in these kinds of coaches is enormous. Instead of leaving the rink in shame they continue on as if nothing has happened, which gives the skaters a false sense of trust.
The coach acts as if nothing happened so the skater begins to believe that..."nothing must have happened, he sure seems confident and self assured" etc.
He suggests that he is the victim of unfair policies, and the skaters decide to agree with him if he has been a successful coach.
This is when the parents need to finally decide what principles they ultimately want to instill in their children.
Some have obviously decided to encourage their children to lie on forms, and misrepresent the truth about who is coaching them.

[dejaview]

I just found an article published by the "Washington Times" June 18, 2003 entitled Crossing the Line. Not only did I learn a little about the Connecticut situation, but I learned that the young lady (Jessica Roos) who was exploited by this Connecticut coach (Bob Young) actually is responsible for having a law passed making it a felony for a coach to have sexual contact with a high school student under the age of 19, and with an amateur athlete outside of school under 18.
That took alot of guts, and I admire that she turned a negative into a positive by helping it not happen to others.

[IgglesII]

The Pair team is probably being fed a pack of lies about how he was innocent , how the girls were "after money", how he was being treated unfairly, etc., and he probably is offering some kind of perk. He also probably acts as if nothing is wrong. The level of ego in these kinds of coaches is enormous. Instead of leaving the rink in shame they continue on as if nothing has happened, which gives the skaters a false sense of trust.


...everybody is out to hurt them, he's the only one they can trust, the only one looking out for their well-being, etc. etc.

[Skatewind]

Here is the link to the article referenced by dejaview:

http://washingtontimes.com/sports/20030617-114902-9485r.htm

[WeBeEducated]

Here is part of an article that appeared in JUMP magazine 2000. I tried to hyperlink but wasnt able to do it right. This is all about the coach in Connecticut that is still coaching USFSA skaters, including athletes who receive funding from the USFSA.

Jessica, 23
When I was 17, I collided with another ice-skater and hit the ice facefirst. I shattered my jaw, broke my nose and went through a series of procedures to save my teeth. My skating fell apart, my coaches basically dropped me and I thought my athletic car eer was over. The whole thing took my confidence to an all-time low.
Then I met a new coach. When he saw me skate, he told me I was incredible. To hear those words was amazing. He bragged about his coaching credentials and said that if I trained with him for a year, I could reach my goal of making the national team. He even said he would cover all of my expenses, which was a relief, since my parents were having financial problems.
Training with Coach was like heaven at first. He constantly gave me gifts -- like tickets to ice-skating shows and backstage passes to meet the stars -- and special privileges, like allowing me to skate on ice that was usually reserved for Olympic skater s. He even told me to use his office as my locker room.
On weekends, I would stay at Coach's house so I could be closer to the rink for training. One night, he climbed into bed with me. I felt totally uncomfortable, but he played it off like it was no big deal. He said that he shared a bed with other skater s when they slept over and told me he had a different way of coaching -- I wasn't just a number, but somebody he cared about. Since he was my coach and my dad's age, I trusted him. I never dreamed he would hurt me.
Another night, Coach got in my bed again and we started talking. Somehow, the conversation led to boyfriends. I told him that I had never even kissed a boy and that I was afraid of being taken advantage of. He said, "Don't worry, I'll teach you what yo u need to know." He began touching me and having me touch him. I was in shock. But I felt like Coach was the only one in the world who believed in me, so I didn't think I had a right to be angry. Besides, I'd always been teased about being too prudish , so I believed him when he said he just wanted to show me how to handle myself with a guy.
Soon, my coach had me move in with him so my commute to the rink wouldn't be as hard, and he came into my bed more frequently. Once, when I got up to shower, he reprimanded me for locking the door. When I told him that I have never even changed in front of other girls, he told me I needed to get over those hang-ups. Sometimes, when I showered, I would turn around to find him watching me. He would walk around the house naked, and he even pushed himself up against me a few times. At the rink, he'd make me change in front of him to get over my so-called hang-ups. He said I could never tell anyone because people are sick and wouldn't understand how much he was helping me.
Coach controlled everything. Since I'd been training with him, my relationship with my parents deteriorated. He said horrible things about them and I started to believe him. I was totally isolated, and he was all I had. I felt I had to respect him, bu t I was also frustrated and confused. I cried all the time.
Then, I met my first boyfriend, who took things really slowly, and I started to realize how much Coach had manipulated me. Eventually, I moved out of his house. Fortunately, he was coaching another new recruit, so he was a lot cooler about me moving out than I thought he'd be. I started going to therapy, but I couldn't tell my therapist what he had done. I was so angry with myself. I was scared to tell my parents and my boyfriend; I thought they wouldn't want me to be a part of their lives anymor e. Finally, I told my therapist what happened, and soon after that, I told everyone. It was such a relief to not live with this secret anymore.
I contacted a lawyer and filed a complaint with the state's Commission on Human Rights and Opportunities and grievances with the Professional Figure Skating Association and the United States Figure Skating Association. I had to do something to stop Coach from hurting other skaters. I've had an overwhelming amount of support for standing up to him. Fifteen other girls have now come forward, and he resigned from his post as executive director of the skating center. I finally know that I did nothing wrong, and I hope that he never controls another skater's life the way he did mine.

[WeBeEducated]

http://www.silent-edge.org/

Here is the website that has the story, and also offers links to other related info.

[Skatewind]

An update about the ice rink in FL:

http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/8904706.htm

[SkateFan123]

An update about the ice rink in FL:

http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/8904706.htm
What does this have to do with this thread other than to move it back to the top of the list?

[Skatewind]

Because some of the posters who were posting in the two McKellen threads inquiried about the status of the rink (for sale, etc) & some others were interested in referring information to the club & management, journalists, etc & this would add an additional contact name. If you were not one of those interested, certainly feel free to disregard my post.

[WeBeEducated]

Because some of the posters who were posting in the two McKellen threads inquiried about the status of the rink (for sale, etc) & some others were interested in referring information to the club & management, journalists, etc & this would add an additional contact name. If you were not one of those interested, certainly feel free to disregard my post.

The local journalist who wrote the column can be contacted at mgriswold@bradentonherald.com (Matthew Griswold), and would probably be interested in some facts.
Amazingly, the information regarding Gordie being permanently banned is almost impossible to dig up, so certainly many parents there in Florida could be totally unaware of the background of their "celebrity coach".
Because the rink is full of young girls with skating dreams and trusting attitudes towards coaches I feel we are obligated to inform the parents so they can make knowledgable choices. If management is aware of his background and is deliberately withholding the facts from parents then parents need to know that too.

[leafericson]

What does this have to do with this thread other than to move it back to the top of the list?


I understand what you mean Skatefan... Maybe since the article is about J.P. Igloo, and it's being sold to hockey, not about Kerry Leitch, who isn't even mentioned in the article, it should go under the K leitch sells champions thread. There can be talk about the rink and where he goes now.

Kerry Leitch is not the banned coach here.
Although he has alot to do with helping a USFS banned coach for some crazy reason, he is not the banned one.
People may confuse this coming into the thread at this point, because, you know, people judge you by your friends and associates, new people may think Kerry may be banned too, or better yet that he believes in pediophelic type behavior, being friends with a person like Gordan McKellen.
As far as anyone has said or what with what happened in Canada, or at the Igloo Kerry just disciplines and trains hard, his boys and girls, he does not carry on - much talked about heart felt touchy romantic love affairs with young underaged girls.

Let's see if this is brought back out that everyone can stay civil and orderly follow the rules and not bring this to a shut down as was probably the last intent by some now banned posters.

When was the court date for Lowery? Soon I thought. Let's see if that man gets out of his trouble and back into coaching. Or whether USFS bans this colorful character.
Quite frankly I think what Lowery is up for is worse than McKellen or anything Leitch has done.
Gordie has been sharp enough to keep the relationship long enough to get out of trouble and Kerry hasworked hardand has National champions right now.
Lowery is doing nothing as far as I know but hoping someone buys something old off a website.

[tjsk8]

I understand what you mean Skatefan... Maybe since the article is about J.P. Igloo, and it's being sold to hockey, not about Kerry Leitch, who isn't even mentioned in the article, it should go under the K leitch sells champions thread. There can be talk about the rink and where he goes now.

Kerry Leitch is not the banned coach here.
Although he has alot to do with helping a USFS banned coach for some crazy reason, he is not the banned one.
People may confuse this coming into the thread at this point, because, you know, people judge you by your friends and associates, new people may think Kerry may be banned too, or better yet that he believes in pediophelic type behavior, being friends with a person like Gordan McKellen.
As far as anyone has said or what with what happened in Canada, or at the Igloo Kerry just disciplines and trains hard, his boys and girls, he does not carry on - much talked about heart felt touchy romantic love affairs with young underaged girls.

Let's see if this is brought back out that everyone can stay civil and orderly follow the rules and not bring this to a shut down as was probably the last intent by some now banned posters.

When was the court date for Lowery? Soon I thought. Let's see if that man gets out of his trouble and back into coaching. Or whether USFS bans this colorful character.
Quite frankly I think what Lowery is up for is worse than McKellen or anything Leitch has done.
Gordie has been sharp enough to keep the relationship long enough to get out of trouble and Kerry hasworked hardand has National champions right now.
Lowery is doing nothing as far as I know but hoping someone buys something old off a website.



It's USFSA not USFS.

[SkateFan123]

It's USFSA not USFS.
Actually, it's the USFS. Just "US Figure Skating". Even my new membership card states that. It will just take awhile for us old members and fans to get used to the new name.

[Lurking Skater]

It's USFSA not USFS.

Actually, it is USFS. The US Figure Skating Association officially changed the name last year to US Figure Skating.

[SkateFan123]

I understand what you mean Skatefan... Maybe since the article is about J.P. Igloo, and it's being sold to hockey, not about Kerry Leitch, who isn't even mentioned in the article, it should go under the K leitch sells champions thread. There can be talk about the rink and where he goes now.

Kerry Leitch is not the banned coach here.
Although he has alot to do with helping a USFS banned coach for some crazy reason, he is not the banned one.
People may confuse this coming into the thread at this point, because, you know, people judge you by your friends and associates, new people may think Kerry may be banned too, or better yet that he believes in pediophelic type behavior, being friends with a person like Gordan McKellen.
As far as anyone has said or what with what happened in Canada, or at the Igloo Kerry just disciplines and trains hard, his boys and girls, he does not carry on - much talked about heart felt touchy romantic love affairs with young underaged girls.

Let's see if this is brought back out that everyone can stay civil and orderly follow the rules and not bring this to a shut down as was probably the last intent by some now banned posters.

When was the court date for Lowery? Soon I thought. Let's see if that man gets out of his trouble and back into coaching. Or whether USFS bans this colorful character.
Quite frankly I think what Lowery is up for is worse than McKellen or anything Leitch has done.
Gordie has been sharp enough to keep the relationship long enough to get out of trouble and Kerry hasworked hardand has National champions right now.
Lowery is doing nothing as far as I know but hoping someone buys something old off a website.
Two charges were dropped, two reduced, Lowery plead guilty to those two charges.

http://www.cincypost.com/2004/06/22/coach062204.html

From the article linked above:


Davis said he wanted to hear from the victim before imposing Lowery's sentence, but Lowery's attorney indicated the civil settlement might not allow that.

"I don't know that the victim will necessarily make those statements, judge," attorney Hal Arenstein said. The judge said he didn't care, but he at least wanted to give the victim an opportunity to be heard in regard to a suggested sentence if he wanted. Lowery returns July 13 to be sentenced.

[BittyBug]

Actually, it is USFS. The US Figure Skating Association officially changed the name last year to US Figure Skating.
Actually, it's just US Figure Skating. They do not go by the acronym 'USFS.' I specifically asked HQ about this after the branding change. It's tempting to use the abbreviation because of the old brand name 'USFSA,' but if you look on the US Figure Skating site, you will see that they only use 'US Figure Skating.'

[Phuket]

Let's move past the exact name of the NGB of the United States. USFS or USFSA, I think we all know who we're talking about.

[newfieskates]

:) So whats the website? Seems like something I would wanna check out. Also does anybody know how to post your own thread, like start your own because i dont know how? :roll:

[streetfightnman]

I was a national and international USFSA competitor in the mid-eighties. My contact with the skating world has been little if nothing at all over the last 17 years.
It is more than shocking to find out that it has taken over at least twenty years for the USFSA to take action.

It is sad but a true fact of the sport of figure skating in regards to unethical behavior of coaches...

Personally I was aware of supposed relationship that started with Gordie Mckellan and a student that he had started coaching in the late seventies when she was a pre-teen.

So was all of the Upper Great Lakes region. This includes the USFSA and the judging community. I don't understand the lack of accountability of the USFSA? How many other kids were abused? Why haven't banned coaches been listed? What good is a ban if no one knows or enforces it.

The USFSA has to wake up and live in the modern world. Instead of pretending like the catholic church... There are immoral people in all professions. Parents need to have the information.

[stop the drama]

In repsonse to all that I've heard about Gordie McKellen, I have just one comment...Get a life and get off the computer.

Anyone who feels the need to criticize his choices and the choices made by people in his life have entirely too much time on their hands. Unless you know Gordie the way I do (which I GUARANTEE you don't), don't make accusations about his character. Gordie is a kind, caring, hard-working person who always put his students first. His coaching style was aggressive and demanding mentally and physically but you know what...HE PRODUCED RESULTS. Thats more than most coaches will ever say.

It hurts me to read some of the things that have been written about him and I will gladly confront anyone who feels they have an argument. However, from here on out - STOP THE DRAMA! I've seen enough of this "kicking a man while he's down" thing. I know how Gordie feels about all that has been said and he wishes that everyone would just move on and talk about something else.

So what if he does a celebrity coach camp in Florida, he's there for a reason. He is one of the best coaches you will ever encounter and he produces results. If you feel like doing some research, ask his old skating parents if their kids got better after working with Gordie. You won't find a single one who didn't. Any skater should be honored to work with Gordie. He may even become a major influence in their life...which has happened before and is also the reason why he is banned from the USFSA. However keep in mind there are no regrets by Gordie or the other party involved...their life is their life, not yours.

Thanks for your consideration, I would appreciate it if people would keep their harsh comments to themselves. The skating world is upside down with irrelevant accusations, self-important parents, and people looking to get in the limelight for 15 minutes. Gordie's just trying to get out of the limelight...and if I'm not mistaken "Isn't that what everyone who criticizes him wants as well?"

[WeBeEducated]

My first reaction to the recent posting above from stopthedrama was to laugh because I thought it was intended as a joke.
Afterall, to say that a man who was banned for having unethical relationships with his underage student(s), taking her to hotels after competitions, etc., should not be the subject of discussion and inquiry is laughable.
Sorry, but when one does something highly inappropriate, usually considered criminal, then one will be discussed in society.
Thats the way it goes.
Nobody owes Gordie an apology for that
He is guilty of extremly unethical behavior. There is a reason, real and true, that he was banned. He had no defense, and could not expect anyone to "understand" then and now.
One of the prices he will continue to pay for the havoc he chose to create is an enduring lack of respect for his integrity ad character by all who are familiar with the situation. Since he chooses to continue to try to hang out in the skating world that banned him, he will continue to be held accountable for his deeds in that world.
He will be rejected by most of the responsible parents and coaches.
He can and should expect that.
His coaching skills may or may not be excellent, but that fact is totally irrelevant.
He is not being judged as a coach, he is being judged and rejected as a man who imposed his unethical and inappropriate behavior on minors.
Even in the company of raw and raunchy prisoners that is unforgivable.
I feel very very sorry for anyone who is still being influenced by Gordie's perceptions and I hope that one day she will mature emotionally and define her own world according to her own values rather than the ones that were fed to her by a self serving coach.
But the critique will continue of any man who boasts that he has "no regrets" for taking advantage of the trust of minors, for secretly engaging in relationships with young students, and for manipulating skaters and parents for his personal gratification.
A teacher who "loved" her young student spent 7 years in jail-Gordie should be grateful he got off without jail time, much less be expecting people to hush up about his actions. What nerve!

[stop the drama]

My first reaction to the recent posting above from stopthedrama was to laugh because I thought it was intended as a joke.
Afterall, to say that a man who was banned for having unethical relationships with his underage student(s), taking her to hotels after competitions, etc., should not be the subject of discussion and inquiry is laughable.
Sorry, but when one does something highly inappropriate, usually considered criminal, then one will be discussed in society.
Thats the way it goes.
Nobody owes Gordie an apology for that
He is guilty of extremly unethical behavior. There is a reason, real and true, that he was banned. He had no defense, and could not expect anyone to "understand" then and now.
One of the prices he will continue to pay for the havoc he chose to create is an enduring lack of respect for his integrity ad character by all who are familiar with the situation. Since he chooses to continue to try to hang out in the skating world that banned him, he will continue to be held accountable for his deeds in that world.
He will be rejected by most of the responsible parents and coaches.
He can and should expect that.
His coaching skills may or may not be excellent, but that fact is totally irrelevant.
He is not being judged as a coach, he is being judged and rejected as a man who imposed his unethical and inappropriate behavior on minors.
Even in the company of raw and raunchy prisoners that is unforgivable.
I feel very very sorry for anyone who is still being influenced by Gordie's perceptions and I hope that one day she will mature emotionally and define her own world according to her own values rather than the ones that were fed to her by a self serving coach.
But the critique will continue of any man who boasts that he has "no regrets" for taking advantage of the trust of minors, for secretly engaging in relationships with young students, and for manipulating skaters and parents for his personal gratification.
A teacher who "loved" her young student spent 7 years in jail-Gordie should be grateful he got off without jail time, much less be expecting people to hush up about his actions. What nerve!

__________________________________________________ _______________

NO ONE IS ASKING FOR AN APOLOGY, DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT? Judging by how often you post your "know-it-all" self-satisfying comments I think you may be one of those drama starters. Use your "education" to give you and your family a good life rather than ruin others.

And I don't find it funny that you think it's okay to laugh in the face of people who have feelings. Nothing here is a joke.

[leafericson]

[QUOTE=stop the drama]In repsonse to all that I've heard about Gordie McKellen, I have just one comment...Get a life and get off the computer.

Anyone who feels the need to criticize his choices and the choices made by people in his life have entirely too much time on their hands. Unless you know Gordie the way I do (which I GUARANTEE you don't), don't make accusations about his character. Gordie is a kind, caring, hard-working person who always put his students first. His coaching style was aggressive and demanding mentally and physically but you know what...HE PRODUCED RESULTS. Thats more than most coaches will ever say.

It hurts me to read some of the things that have been written about him and I will gladly confront anyone who feels they have an argument. However, from here on out - STOP THE DRAMA! I've seen enough of this "kicking a man while he's down" thing. I know how Gordie feels about all that has been said and he wishes that everyone would just move on and talk about something else.

Well, I hope we can stay civil now that stop the drama has come aboard. Remember the forum rules, everybody! It seems like gordies camp can get posts banned and aggrivate the posters!
I do have a life and am very busy. It hurts me to see coaches do this to students! This is not for limelight! But what I can say is that Gordie knew what he was doing was wrong... when he started it up...
Why can't he take all the talk, when he started it?
He knew when he started this whole mess it could get ugly.
As long as he has been in the skating world?
Did he really think that he would be the exception?
Maybe he thought he could get away with it again?
Nobody would say anything because it was Gordie? Yeah, maybe when he was 15!
Kicking him when he is down? He started it!
He has been punished, by being banned but he still obviously thinks that he should be the exception to the rule!
You know, stop the drama...
I think what you should know is that some people on this forum are fighting for justice and show signs of good morality. I am not saying you cdon't have morals,now. I just can't understand anyone who would think sexual relationships with under aged students would be O.K.in the name of love! I don't feel that having these types of relationships with students is what you call putting your students first!

[Rogue]

If Gordie wishes to stay out of the limelight, it is quite easy to do. Just don't participate in Celebrity Camps. After all, what is a celebrity but someone who is in the limelight? If you put yourself in the limelight, don't be surprised if someone decides to throw tomatos at you.

As to always putting his students first - when has enticing a minor into an inappropriate relationship ever been in the best interest of the student? A mature man who truly loves a student can wait until that student is also mature before initiating a relationship.

[celtic]

Has anyone else noted the tone taken by supporters of this coach? They seem hostile, especially to the posts of others. This may be an attempt to have the entire thread deleted, which I hope doesn't happen, because it serves a good purpose.

In response to certain comments:

". . . he's there for a reason" (re celebrity camp). -- What is that reason?

". . . he produces results." -- Many other coaches have produced better results, and they have not been banned. No one is arguing his coaching credentials, but his character.

"Gordie's just trying to get out of the limelight. . ." -- Let him choose another profession, one in which he would not be discussed. Does he seriously think he can use his friends to attack anyone while he attempts to continue coaching kids, when he has been permanently banned?

Please do not attack people who post responses. No one is trying to ruin his life. He is an adult and he is responsible for his actions and knowledge of these actions should be
available to skaters and parents. If he had been a school coach and not one in an unregulated sport, he would have been fired and probably arrested. He should be thankful he wasn't and lead a new life.

[md2be]

Respect is earned, not granted. He needs to change his life and prove he is worth trusting, respecting again before he can rectify his reputation. Just because he is a good coach (and I love his mom - she coached me!) does not mean he is automatically excused for his decisions. You could be the best coach/teacher/preacher/parent in the world, heck win medals for it, but if you cross that line of indecency, you have to pay the consequences to your reputation. He is in the minority here - most successful coaches/teachers/parents/preachers do NOT cross that line, so of course it is going to be talked about, of course it is going to ruin his reputation - because it is out of the norm, wrong, indecent to most people.

If he wants his reputation back, he has to earn it. Having a friend post online to support him is not adequate to change most peoples' minds.

[Skatewind]

The reaction to McKellen & his actions by the skating world has been mild compared to the reaction he would have experienced in other professions. Had he been a teacher, middle or high school coach, or in the ministry, he probably would have faced more than only charges of impropriety from the USFSA. As someone else has pointed out, this week an ex-teacher was released from jail after serving over 7 years for sexual abuse of a minor. It is quite a bit more than a few people in the skating community who find this to be a problem.

[Skatewind]

Gordie's just trying to get out of the limelight...and if I'm not mistaken "Isn't that what everyone who criticizes him wants as well?"
To answer your question: No. The people I know who are critical of McKellen & his actions do not care about his limelight or anyone else's. They would like to see him restricted from teaching or working with children because he has a history of misconduct & abuse when it comes to minors.

[stop the drama]

Well, it seems there is a large conglomerate that wishes Gordie's name to be destroyed. However there is also several people who just think the system is flawed. I am grateful that some of your can at least be civil with your comments (attacking the system rather than the individual). But then there are others (and you know who you are) who are just downright mean and seem to have "beef" with Gordie.

Why not watch your comments from now on, and keep in mind that the more certain people see these self-satisfying comments...the more it hurts them. I think the point has been made and penalties have been handed out. How you choose to have your child taught the sport of figure skating is your choice. But I think is was about time that some people heard from someone in the so called "gordie camp". Whatever. Gordie has no idea I'm doing this, so don't accuse me of being asked to drop a line in his favor. As far as the camp goes, Gordie can help your child with their skating and that's why he's there. Because people don't doubt his ability is the reason he is there. Gordie has to make a living too, that's also why he is there. Forget the term "celebrity", some people need the money when any opportunity arises. Contact the right people if you want him out of the camp, there's no use in using the internet for your complaints.

I've never felt that Gordie was right for his actions, but I am concerned that this is just becoming overwhelming. For pete's sake, it's pretty much the most searched topic on the site. THE POINT HAS BEEN MADE. Move on.

I am not a hostile individual, as someone seems to think. I just know the situation better than the rest of you and I think several people are making comments without knowing enough about the people involved.

Think about the factors here. FIGURE SKATING. RUMORS. BACK STABBING. LYING. PARENTS WHO LOVE GOSSIP BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO OTHER WAY TO FILL THEIR TIME, S_XUAL DECISIONS AND SO ON. This industry has to many ways of swaying someone's opinion based on the immoral ways people act. Gordie is no exception, but now everyone is just making it worse than it should be at point. This "skating world" just stinks sometimes.

Again, thanks to those of you who have been civil. Take care.

[leafericson]

STD, I agree again, civil is best. And am glad you see that, so you can stay on the board! Maybe you can shed some light for us(prudes) here! I would like to explain to you that the people who upset the forum months ago were from Gordies camp, new posters, and not these posters. You must be confused, since you can't read those banned posts, now, and you have just joined. All those posts were erased by the moderaters. It was his person that was banned from posting. I happened to read those posts before they were erased, truly horrible, mean, and malicious against all people, that think that the ex national champion, good coach, they are still together, etc. should stay quiet and move on. And except his improprieties. Moving on is not the issue. Everyone has a life and telling people not to post and to get a life in my eyes may not be very logical and a little ridiculous. Just because you don't like that this is being discussed is all in part of Gordies mistake in not showing up at his hearing.
What, what he did was no big deal? Time has passed? Giving an excuse like he didn't go to the hearing because his attorney had paperwork trouble and mail issues.
If he really had cared about his financial future, his reputation, his career, and all of his students at that time? He could have stopped the affair months earlier, then hopped on a plane with his attorney, been at the hearing no matter how hard, he would have pulled some political strings and shown up to defend himself, no matter how humiliating.. Walked away with a hand slapping, maybe a year ban, and he would have been done with it. His ending to his story! Why didn't he?? What was more important than not showing up????? Did he really think that a ban wouldn't happen? Being above the rules? Why because he is Gordie? Did he just not care? Did he laugh and say don't worry, it's nothing. Rumors and who can do what damage here? The damage is done! He did it to himself! He's still doing it to himself by talking to old buddies and crying to them and mooching off of their successes. Making other pros and coaches looking bad at the expense of "helping" him. I think Gordie is harming the reputation of the pros and coaches who are trying to help him. How can this be righteous?
Do you think being banned for life should just be swept under the carpet and everyone should just deny the USFSA system?
Then why isn't Harding not competing?
If Gordie needs to make a living which seems to be one of the biggest problems, why didn't he think of all this before he started the under age part, and the part of the affair with a teen under his own roof, while still married? The hotel part at International events? Was loving a teen really worth destroying everything for himself and everyone around him? To sacrifise his career, second marriage, risking his children finding out, and of course his reputation? Obviously, so why is he crying now??? Sounds like he is still above and avoiding the real issue here. I hear about money,etc...but I don't hear ever how sorry he is and how he has gone to therapy and done other ways to show the skating world he regrets the under age part! Unfortunately for him, what happens now is all part of the consequence. This is what happens to you when you don't obey the law and don't go to hearings by the USFSA..
Why didn't he think about consequences then? (Sadly, I think, it is the ..child prodigy super star, youngest, cute, most wonderful little boy, syndrome. But now all grown up and as an adult, life is harsh reality).
STD, do you have an answer for any of these points and questions? Because I don't understand how he can pursuade only a few people like you and people holding celebrity camps and very few famous pros into believing that all this is not a big thing and all A.OK. Something to over look. His actions were calculating and far above the law, being unlawful with minors and shameful to the USFSA!
He was lucky it was figure skating and not a school sport. As luck should prevail, what he is going through now is better than court proceeding for months, being arrested, handcuffed, finfger printed, mug shot, jail or civil duty time for molestation. And being banned from all children including family!
I believe that if this was at a school, a school board would have began processing charges while the student was still a minor being able to press charges.
STD, I am sorry if you think these posting are some of the worst lies, gossip etc, in skating. I don't think anyone here is lying, or gossiping, just daring to put in words what is hard to talk about!
I think the banned poster was the worst I have ever read, and that was gordies camp.

[blades]

8-)

oh mannnnnn!...this thread just keeps going and going and going...personally, i think many of y'all have far too much time on yer hands...

on the other hand though...in answer to the question: "what's the big deal???"...do da name mary k. letourneau ring a bell???

btw..."STD" ???...now there's a great acronym to use... 8O

[leafericson]

Actually I for one have a 40+ hr. corporate position. Yes that is one of a few sadly.

[skatingmom]

I saw him judging some pro/proam competition last year on TV and think that it flies in the face of polite society...he is a pervert that should be in jail - in any other circumstance he would be. Why do we let people like Gordie, David and Jackie get held up to lesser standards?

[WeBeEducated]

I agree that it is disappointing that in US skating people who have been banned for highly inappropriate/illegal behavior involving minors are hired for skating events, camps, competitions.
It is bizarre.
Gordie should consider himself lucky that he was only banned by the USFSA instead of the usual treatment for those who choose to molest minors, even willing minors. The infamous school teacher had a very willing minor who "loved" her too, and she spent years behind bars and endured very public humiliation. How silly it would sound if people petitioned on her behalf to teach again because she was very good at teaching math!

He should never expect to be sympathetically included in the sport or his actions overlooked by those who have morals.
Unfortunately, in the skating world many involved are extremely liberal socially and politically, thus, they accepted and tolerated his behavior .
They didnt want to intrude upon his "freedom" to do whatever he liked with whomever he wanted, regardless of the fact a minor was the object of his desire. He knew that was the status quo and he felt comfortable taking that risk.

[Skatewind]

Unfortunately, in the skating world many involved are extremely liberal socially and politically, thus, they accepted and tolerated his behavior.
I disagree & believe your assessment of the situation is way off. It has much more to do with appearances & people not wanting to air dirty laundry in the skating world along with the good old boy network of coaches & professionals who protect their own. It also has a lot to do with organizations taking the initiative to implement policy in this area, & this has not only been a problem in the sport of skating. It is incorrect to infer this has been going on because people are liberal socially & politically. That's nothing more than an off the cuff answer for people who aren't taking the time to examine the real root causes & solutions to these problems.

[manleywoman]

Unfortunately, in the skating world many involved are extremely liberal socially and politically, thus, they accepted and tolerated his behavior .

Don't you dare equate those with liberal leanings as being accepting of molestation of any sort. What an incredibly offensive comment. I am both a social and political liberal and I would NEVER think it was okay for a coach to prey on a kid. :evil:

[WeBeEducated]

The many people I know personally in the skating world who voiced only mild disapproval of behavior as Gordie and other similar coaches are guilty of, are the same people who vigorously voice approval of popular liberal politics.
That is my personal experience.
The "old boy" clique within skating is definately seen as "liberals" to those outside of the skating world. And these old boys that quietly accepted predatory behavior made a choice based on more than their professional bonds I believe. They simply refused to define it as "molestation", and in their book it became "private relationships that were none of their business."

[manleywoman]

Your point is moot. The revelations of the high numbers of priests in the Catholic church found molesting little boys should in of itself prove that. Hardly a group anyone would consider "liberal."

Next time remember that it has nothing to do with being liberal or not. Your comment is still really offensive, and a HUGE generalization based on your obviously limited experience in meeting a variety of people. I'm sorry for you that your world is so small that all liberals are molesters to you.

There are predators in all walks of life. Doesn't asume all liberals are horrible people. There are plenty of horrible people with more conservative views.

[blades]

8-)

offensive???

how about just plain stupid!!!

of all the assinine comments on this board, this one has got to be one of the worst!!!

[WeBeEducated]

I am using "liberal" in this sense, as defined by a dictionary:
[adj] tolerant; not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or tradition
[adj] showing or characterized by broad-mindedness; "a broad political stance"; "generous and broad sympathies"; "tolerant of his opponent's opinions"


I never said liberals were child molesters.
So please dont morph my words into that.
I said that the liberal environment of the skating world supported those who chose to look the other way and that is a known fact. Some people who were privy to such activity in the past have told me they chose to look the other way because it wasnt really "their business" and that it was "so common" in skating that it had become part of skating's identity.

There is a reason that it was considered acceptable to many. If it wasnt acceptable then something would have been done to stop it. No policies were in place throughout the 20 th century bascially within US Skating. No penalties were inflicted. People knew what was happening but agreed the actions didnt warrant investigation, penalties, or even official discussion within membership.

Parents, skaters, officials, judges, and coaches were ALL involved in silently tolerating this behavior, so to say it flourished unchallenged simply because of professional bonds between coaches is incorrect.

[manleywoman]

You did not use the dictionary definition.

You specifically said:
"many involved are extremely liberal socially and politically, thus, they accepted and tolerated his behavior ."

Now your latest post is not AS offensive:
"I said that the liberal environment of the skating world supported those who chose to look the other way and that is a known fact."

But that's NOT what you said the first time. You're backpeddling. Your first statement makes a disgusting generalization that all of those who lean liberal are tolerant of deviant behavior.

Now, I agree with this part:
"Some people who were privy to such activity in the past have told me they chose to look the other way because it wasnt really "their business" and that it was "so common" in skating that it had become part of skating's identity."

If that's what you meant you should have stated it that way. But it has nothing to do with being politically or socially leaning one way or the other. i think my priest analogy made that clear. So be much more careful in your assumptions in the future. They're very close-minded.

[Madame Saccoche]

Oy vey, can we put this thread out of it's misery....pleeeeezzeeee

[what?meworry?]

Oy vey, can we put this thread out of it's misery....pleeeeezzeeee
NO! as long as parents and their usfs member skaters are unable to access a data base that lists factual information about permantly banned coaches, it needs to keep going somewhere---if for no other reason than to keep the names out there: jackie mero, gordon mckellan, bob young, and hopefully soon, david lowery.

and about webe's unfortunate comment: webe did a great service for the skater community by staying with this lowery matter. but that doesn't make webe or anyone immune to severe foot-in-mouth-disease.
i've always felt that anyone should have an opportunity to make a fool out of him/herself once a year and get a pass on it.

[Madame Saccoche]

Hey WhatMe!


No problem with that but these kinds of threads tend to go off on tangents sometimes which detract from the original topic.

[blades]

Oy vey, can we put this thread out of it's misery....pleeeeezzeeee

8-)

does the term "beating a dead horse" ring a bell???

[skatingmom]

Whatme is right....the fact of the matter is that pedophiles should not be allowed access to minors whether they move and open a new skating school under a new name, show up at a camp where kids are attending, be judging at competitions where minors are competing, or sellling skating memorabilia at competitions where minors are present in the hallways. Evil is allowed to flourish when good people do nothing to prevent it. You cannot "dialog" with evil, appease evil or reeducate evil. It has to be stopped for the sake of the children. I applaud Webe for keeping this issue at the forefront!

[Skatewind]

Whatme may be right, but WeBe isn't this time. As pointed out by manleywoman, if such a premise was correct, we would not be seeing these incidents in the Catholic church or any other church, boy scouts, private schools, or any number of other "conservative" safe havens for children. It is unacceptable make generalizations that loosely assign blame to entire groups of people based on political beliefs, rather than seek out the root causes & enact procedures that will correct the problems. WeBe's comments are very offensive & do not help resolve the issue of child abuse because the information is incorrect. There are just as many people who have strongly voiced disapproval of these coaches who have progressive political beliefs, there is no empirical information to support WeBe's premise. There is, OTOH, much evidence to support the fact that many other sports organizations, besides USFS, have not gotten serious about these issues until the past decade. Personally, I think they should have acted sooner too, along with the many other organizations. However, it's more productive to spend time looking toward implementing solutions now that they are engaged.

[skatingmom]

I was refering to WeBe's work regarding the David Lowery case...not political stance.

[WeBeEducated]

Whatme may be right, but WeBe isn't this time. As pointed out by manleywoman, if such a premise was correct, we would not be seeing these incidents in the Catholic church or any other church, boy scouts, private schools, or any number of other "conservative" safe havens for children. It is unacceptable make generalizations that loosely assign blame to entire groups of people based on political beliefs, rather than seek out the root causes & enact procedures that will correct the problems. WeBe's comments are very offensive & do not help resolve the issue of child abuse because the information is incorrect. There are just as many people who have strongly voiced disapproval of these coaches who have progressive political beliefs, there is no empirical information to support WeBe's premise. There is, OTOH, much evidence to support the fact that many other sports organizations, besides USFS, have not gotten serious about these issues until the past decade. Personally, I think they should have acted sooner too, along with the many other organizations. However, it's more productive to spend time looking toward implementing solutions now that they are engaged.

I am well aware that there are perverts in every walk of life.
The difference is that in the skating world EVERYONE from parents to skaters to officials to judges chose to remain silent about it for most of the 20th century.
For example, when we hear about teachers molesting students there is open outrage by parents and school officials.
But instead of calling off the jackals who were preying upon young skaters in America the system glorified them , rewarded them, and in the very least passively ignored them!
That is because of the significant difference of the atmosphere within the skating world .
I believe within that very liberal( i.e. tolerant, unorthodox, non -traditional) atmosphere it was not condemned as it would have been for instance in the school system which is much more traditional. Nobody would invite a teacher gulity of sexual misconduct with minors to their school as a special guest speaker!
Adults in other environments do try to molest children, but they try also to HIDE it. In skating, it wasnt even a dark hidden secret! The skating subculture tolerated it as an aspect of their world , and there were implied and direct examples of such behavior even being protected.
The fact that misconduct with minors
was openly witnessed, tolerated, and perpetuated by silence is very strange to me.
But even more amazing and grotesquely unique within skating is that STILL, in the 21st century a coach can be guilty of abusing a minor and yet is FEATURED as a celebrity coach within the sport! A well known abuser in skating can count on being invited to judge televised events, can be offered guest coaching assignments, and can be offered public sympathy by top athletes in the sport! He can still count on alot of folks to look the other way! Now, isnt that rather bizarre?

And I attribute it to the liberal culture of the skating world ; the tolerant, unorthodox, nontraditional atmosphere that is wonderful in some ways and wacky in others.

[Rogue]

[QUOTE=WeBeEducated]For example, when we hear about teachers molesting students there is open outrage by parents and school officials./QUOTE]

Sure, when the parents actually hear about it. However, school officials have frequently been known to quietly "pass the trash" to other school districts by letting the offender resign. The Catholic church (which I wouldn't call liberal) has done the same thing through the use of transfers. It's more a matter of wanting to keep scandal from landing on your own doorstep. The skating world likewise has banded together to keep scandal from being bandied about in the real world. It's not a matter of the skating world being liberal, but of wanting to keep its skeletons in the closet.

[Skatewind]

The difference is that in the skating world EVERYONE from parents to skaters to officials to judges chose to remain silent about it for most of the 20th century.
This is probably the most ridiculous assertion I have read in the many years I have been involved in skating & it is not even worthy of an argument.
The fact that misconduct with minors was openly witnessed, tolerated, and perpetuated by silence is very strange to me.
I guess I don't understand why you personally find it so very strange when you were apparently one of the parents who followed Lowery around from rink to rink amid the many rumors. It seems like it would have provided a first hand look into how some parents, skaters & coaches can get caught up in this cycle & rationalize it.

I have personally witnessed numerous incidents where abuse of minors was not tolerated & was reported to the appropriate authorities. So this may have been happening at your rink, but it certainly is not at all rinks. I have also heard stories directly from skaters who were abused by a coach but did not want to register a complaint on the record. This makes many cases unable to go forward legally, since hearsay doesn't get convictions. I'm sure you are fully aware when there is no direct evidence, "EVERYONE" is limited in the action they can take & liability also then becomes a consideration.

Stop the drama & instead take a realistic look at what needs to be done in order to effect change & help change it. The constant National Enquirer-like rants aren't solving anything. If anything, such harangues can do harm & prevent other abused kids from coming forward.

[WeBeEducated]

I thought it was strange when I first learned about skating "rules". I was told 12 years ago by coaches,skaters, and experienced skating parents that we were to never question the actions of officials and coaches.

I still think it is a strange approach regardless of how many of us felt compelled to comply.
And as recently as last year coaches were still telling me that any challenge to the status quo could harm my skaters chances!
I do think that's strange, or sad, that such a fearful climate still exists.
But the thread was about a permanently banned coach who is being hired to work with children.
And my response is geared toward that thread, not in suggesting ways to improve the organization. I was reacting to the frustration and disbelief many feel about the fact that the banned coach was hired to judge skating events, appear as a celebrity coach, etc. The point being expressed is that to be banned from an organization usually means being ostracized and left out of the loop, yet with Gordie (and Bob Young )that has not happened at all.
It is worth discussing. Until we understand why banned coaches are still flourishing within the sport the changes that are developing will not be significant.
Did I cooperate with the "rules"? Oh yes I did, just like everyone else around me.
But things are beginning to change within the USFSA and their attitude adjustment will trickle down to coaches,officials, skaters and parents. When there are problems in an organization we look to the top, to the leadership, to identify the issues and solutions. Only in the past few years has the USFSA leadership shown courage and conviction in response to this well known problem.
On a personal level I decided I could no longer play by the old rules too.
It was a choice, then and now.

[robertp]

Whether or not these things are more accepted elsewhere or not, people need to speak out. Not rocking the boat or speaking out is a problem. Officials not wanting to have a scandal on their hands are aiding the problem in a selfish way (think Catholic church)

The first thing that should happen is that a permanently banned coach should be "permanently banned". Duh!!! And those that support the avoidance of this permanent ban should find themselves in contempt of the USFS rules. Get some guts!

Why should this be so? Because it may act as a deterrent to those that might be tempted to "fall in love" when it is inappropriate. If there are no consequences to this behavior, why would it stop? Also, if there are no consequences to those that go around the ban, it will continue.

[celtic]

And I was accused by a now-banned poster of keeping this thread alive! :) Since so many are outraged that a permanently banned coach can still be quite visible in skating, why not contact USFS and request that it prominently display a list of banned coaches on its website.

As for the appearances as a judge and a celebrity coach, USFS does not control those events. But a word to the organizers of such events, and to the media, could have results. At least parents and the general public would be aware. And perhaps the well-known individuals who offer support could be asked to explain their puzzling support.

[what?meworry?]

And I was accused by a now-banned poster of keeping this thread alive! :) .
i'm pleased to share that "blame."
Since so many are outraged that a permanently banned coach can still be quite visible in skating, why not contact USFS and request that it prominently display a list of banned coaches on its website..
i don't know about the "prominantly displayed" we do want such coaches to get employment elsewhere not involving youth. but a header under the usfs members only area titled "banned and suspended individuals" could work.
As for the appearances as a judge and a celebrity coach, USFS does not control those events. But a word to the organizers of such events, and to the media, could have results. At least parents and the general public would be aware. And perhaps the well-known individuals who offer support could be asked to explain their puzzling support.
that would require expensive labour in monitoring and notification.
how about
1) any eligible athlete participating in an unsanctioned program (no matter how young) could be suspended from eligibility for one year.
and that
2) no organization or show or skating program may employ a banned or suspended individual and recieve a sanction from usfsa.
that might be risky enough to get the public eye and attention of the organizers of such skating-related events.
i'd also make a wager that usfs is pretty well aware of this and other conversations about the subject.

[skatingmom]

[that would require expensive labour in monitoring and notification.
how about
1) any eligible athlete participating in an unsanctioned program (no matter how young) could be suspended from eligibility for one year.
and that
2) no organization or show or skating program may employ a banned or suspended individual and recieve a sanction from usfsa.
that might be risky enough to get the public eye and attention of the organizers of such skating-related events.
i'd also make a wager that usfs is pretty well aware of this and other conversations about the subject.[/QUOTE]

1) I don't think punishing children for the sins of these banned coaches is a good idea. Again, the parents of young children don't currently have the resources to make these decisions.

2) An excellent idea...this should be #1. This would require communication from USFS. I am in favor of a list of people banned being in print somewhere, perhaps on the sanction application.

[what?meworry?]

i probably should have put #2 as #1 and #1 as #2 because the first one precedes the second.

the purpose of the eligibility thing (which may already be a rule in some form or another) is so that the parents of all usfs skaters have a high awareness of the requirement for all competitions and skating events (including shows, seminars, isi stuff, etc.) that their skater participate in be "sanctioned" by usfs.

so the parents need to verify that banned coaches aren't involved or their kid loses usfs eligibility. they put the pressure on the rink/club/etc. to be sure the coaches are not permanently banned or temporarily suspended.


the other part about usfs refusing to santion any event at all that includes any temporarily suspended or permanently banned coaches, is a way to keep their names public enough to keep them away from skaters without trying to creat a "police" force of monitors (which obviously isn't working.) the parents of the eligible skaters would be able to check for themselves, ideally.

the banned coaches' buddies won't get sanctions for events and could even lose usfs sanction to hold seminars, etc if they employ them in any capacity.
i'm not sure i said that quite right, but i hope you get the drift.

of course, it requires usfs to buy into both ideas, but it would be so much simpler just to make the darn list easily available to usfs members via header.

[skatingmom]

Morry Stillwell - are you out there? Anybody else from USFS care to elaborate and give us some feedback here? List the banned USFS coaches on sanction applications! How about on regional competition apps as well...

[Skatewind]

I totally disagree with things like putting lists of names of banned coaches on sanction applications, etc. Listing members on sanctions should be limited to who will be participating in the event that is being sanctioned. I suggested last year on one of these topics to list banned coaches in the members only section of the USFSA site & it was met with ridicule, but that is the proper place for such information. The organization needs to keep it's members & clubs informed along with the appropriate authorities when needed, & so the information should be easily accessible by these groups. USFSA does not need to advertise the information by notifying the general public, making media announcements, or listing banned names like a scarlet letter on every written application. Other sports & children's organizations do not do this.

[what?meworry?]

sw, my suggestion is not to put the names on sanction applications, but to put notification that if any permanently banned or currently temporarily suspended coaches, etc. are participants, the sanction will not be issued or would be revoked, retroactively.
i applaud your proposal, which is of my thinking, that a list be made available within the usfs members part of the usfs site for skaters and parents to access!
shame on usfs that this was not accepted.

[dr.frog]

The problem I see with the direction this discussion has taken is that summer camps and seminars -- such as the one that IIRC originally spawned this thread -- don't require USFSA sanctions in the first place. (Only competitions and shows where admission is charged to the audience require sanctions.) I can also assure you that the USFSA does *not* want to take on legal responsibility for what goes on between skaters and coaches at rinks all over the country that they do not own or control or even supervise. So, it's caveat emptor. Before you employ a coach you should find out if they are a PSA and USFSA member, and if not, why not. I think a lot of rinks already require that coaches who work there be PSA members with proof of liability insurance. If you are the type to want to do something about this problem, try selling your rink on the idea that coaches need to be USFSA members as well, and that they could be opening themselves up to more liability issues if they employ coaches who have already been banned by the USFSA for abusive behavior with their students.

[Skatewind]

sw, my suggestion is not to put the names on sanction applications, but to put notification that if any permanently banned or currently temporarily suspended coaches, etc. are participants, the sanction will not be issued or would be revoked, retroactively.
i applaud your proposal, which is of my thinking, that a list be made available within the usfs members part of the usfs site for skaters and parents to access!
shame on usfs that this was not accepted.
I realize you did not suggest putting the names on sanction applications, but others here have, most recently skatingmom who also suggested listing them on regionals applications.

I did not make the proposal about listing the names directly to the USFSA, but I did suggest it in this forum sometime ago. It was met with ridicule & numerous comments about how it's not enough & it doesn't protect innocent children & helps cover up for child abusing coaches, etc etc. It seems to me some people are insisting on solutions that are really not possible from a legal or liability standpoint & then blame the wrong parties because it can't be done. Instead it's better to look at realistic steps than can be taken to improve the response to this problem. Working to get those implemented & ensuring a supportive environment for the skaters so they continue to come forward are the types of things that will result in changes.

[celtic]

I suggested to appropriate officials at USFS earlier this year that their website post names of banned coaches. The suggestion was well received and I got the impression the party(ies) I spoke to would act on the suggestion. At least parents/skaters/other interested parties would be able to look for this information on the website of the governing body. I still believe this is the best way to inform.

I have no idea what action was or will be taken. It seems that USFS would make this information available after it permanently banned a number of its own coaches.

[skatingmom]

The PSA should not be absolved of also providing the same information in a public forum as to who has been permanently banned from their organization. You must be a PSA member to coach at Regional competitions, hence my suggestion of the banned coaches being listed there on those applicaitions....not just a witch hunt.

[what?meworry?]

i may very well be wrong about this, but i don't think they have banned anyone! 8O
anyone, please, say it isn't so.

[skatingmom]

Jacqueline Mero has been permanently banned by the PSA.

[Skatewind]

Didn't Mero receive a permanent ban from USFSA but only a suspension from PSA at the time of the incident? Did PSA change the suspension to a permanent ban?

[sk8er1964]

AFAIK, Mero was banned for life by the USFS, but I don't know about the PSA. Her husband received a suspension (1 year, I think?).

[oldtimersk8s]

Are the Mero's still coaching somewhere?

[skatingmom]

i may very well be wrong about this, but i don't think they have banned anyone! 8O
anyone, please, say it isn't so.


http://www.cincypost.com/2004/10/13/coach101304.html

[Skatewind]

skatingmom, that is a recent article about David Lowery which was just posted last week. Can you verify where you got the information about Jackie Mero being permanently banned from PSA? After the Mero incident happened, I read a link to information via an article or website that said she was sanctioned & suspended (I believe for 2 years), but did not have her PSA membership permanently revoked. Can you provide further details about something more permanent?

[skatingmom]

USFS ban
http://www.freep.com/sports/othersports/skate16_20031016.htm

PSA ban

The November/December 2003 issue of the Professional Skater PS Magazine has the following notice - "The Committee on Professional Standards of the PSA has found Jacqueline Mero to be in violation of the rules on ethical conduct. The finding carries with it the SANCTION OF EXPULSION (emphasis added). Inappropriate relations between coach and athlete were determined to have occurred."

[Skatewind]

I'm not sure why you have the perception anyone suggested you would lie & make it up when there was simply a request for a reference or a link to more details of the PSA case.

At any rate, when is an expulsion not be permanent? When the PSA grants a reinstatement in accordance with Rule 10 of their Grievance Procedure Rules:
Any member who has been suspended and who is not reinstated under the terms of the suspension or any skating professional who has been subjected to expulsion from the PSA must apply for reinstatement of membership to the PSA. Such requests for reinstatement with the PSA may be granted upon such terms and requirements as may in the sole discretion of the Committee by majority rule deem appropriate. No professional may be returned to the status of good standing in the PSA as a reinstated member until the professional has satisfied the requirements imposed under these rules and the general rules of membership in the PSA.
The term expulsion in the PSA is not the equivalent of a permanent membership ban by the USFSA. The coaches can be reinstated to PSA depending on the circumstances.