Jenny Kirk planning second Triple/Triple for Worlds

[Maureen]

An article in the Detroit Free Press indicates that Jenny
is planning to do a second combination triple flip/triple toe at Worlds.

The article can be accessed at:


Http://www.freep.com/sports/othersports/oly28_20040128.htm.[/url]

[Debbie S]

Well, if she adds a 3 flip/3 toe, she's going to have to change her regular 3/3, b/c you can't do the same triple jump more than twice - Zayak rule. I wonder if Jenny meant that she was changing her 3/3 to make it harder. I guess she could do a 3 lutz/3 toe, and the 3 flip/3 toe, but given her problems with the lutz, I'm not sure that's the smartest move.

Maybe what Jenny really said was that she was going to add a more difficult combo to her LP than the 3/3 she does in the SP.

[EdemamePirate]

She doesn't have to change anything. The rule states you can't repeat the same solo jump or the same combo. If she does flip/toe and toe/toe, she is fine. Should be interesting. I was hoping it was loop/loop.

[Dustin]

Originally posted by EdemamePirate
She doesn't have to change anything. The rule states you can't repeat the same solo jump or the same combo. If she does flip/toe and toe/toe, she is fine. Should be interesting. I was hoping it was loop/loop.

You can not repeat any jump more than twice - even if it is in a combination.

[EdemamePirate]

Then how can you have 3 allowed combos in a program if there are only toe and loop that you can use in a combo? Edited to add that I am a coach myself (competitive) and I am sitting here with a Master rated coach reading the rulebook.

[Dustin]

Originally posted by EdemamePirate
Then how can you have 3 allowed combos in a program if there are only toe and loop that you can use in a combo? Edited to add that I am a coach myself (competitive) and I am sitting here with a Master rated coach reading the rulebook.

There is only a limit on triples and quads, so it is possible for someone to do say, a 3toe/3toe, 3lutz/2toe, and 3flip/2toe.

[valuvsmk]

Originally posted by EdemamePirate
Then how can you have 3 allowed combos in a program if there are only toe and loop that you can use in a combo? Edited to add that I am a coach myself (competitive) and I am sitting here with a Master rated coach reading the rulebook.

Here are possible combinations under 6.0/interim system
(Theoretical for many of the harder 4jumps and 3Axel LOL):

4ToeorSalchoworLooporFliporLutzorAxel/3Toe
4ToeorSalchoworLooporFliporLutzorAxel/3Loop
3Axel/3Toe
3Axel/3Loop
3Lutz/3Toe
3Lutz/3Loop
3Flip/3Toe
3Flip/3Loop
3Loop/3Toe
3Loop/3Loop (no solo 3Loop or other combo with 3Loop allowed in program)
3Salchow/3Toe
3Salchow/3Loop
3Toe/3Toe (no solo 3Toe or other combo with 3Toe allowed in program)
3Toe/3Loop

If 2 combos contain the same 3or4jump with a different other 3jump in each combo, the 3or4jump common to both combos could not be done as a solo jump in the program.

No 3or4jump could be used in the 3rd combo that had been done as a solo jump and in one other combo, in 2 separate combos with different 3jumps as either the 1st or 2nd jump, or with itself in a single combo.

So it seems that a skater could theoretically do 3 different triple-triple or quad-triple combos as long as s/he followed the rules above.

[icenut84]

Another example of how someone can do three combos without breaking the zayak rule - Sarah Hughes at the Olympics. She did (IIRC):
2axel
3salchow/3loop
3lutz/2toe
3flip
3toe/3loop
3toe

Under the old rules (it's changed slightly in COP), this was legal because you can only repeat two triple jumps, and at least one of each set of repeated jumps must be in combination. The two triples Sarah repeated were the loop and the toe.

Tara Lipinski also did 3 combos in Nagano - 3loop/3loop, 3toe/half loop/3salchow, 3lutz/2toe.

I believe the Zayak rule only applies to triples and quads, which is why skaters can have, e.g. more than one 2toe in their routine, which they often do if they have combinations. The rule actually stated that they must do between 1 and 3 combos in the LP.

However, Jenny Kirk won't be able to do both a 3toe/3toe and a 3flip/3toe in her LP, because that would mean she does three 3toe and the limit is two. However, she could do 3toe/3toe and 3flip/2toe, for example.

Edited for typo

[Callystarr]

I know that during her Juniors, Jenny Kirk was doing 3Flip/3Toe and 3Loop/3Loop, I am almost positive that she has already landed 3Flip/3Toe before back in 1999/2000 Grand Prix Series or Junior Worlds...pretty sure.

[Schmeck]

I wish they'd change the rule about how many doubles you can do as well - how many skaters tack on a 2toe to a jump when the landing is sloppy, just to try to disguise it!

Schmeck

[Artemis]

Originally posted by Schmeck
I wish they'd change the rule about how many doubles you can do as well - how many skaters tack on a 2toe to a jump when the landing is sloppy, just to try to disguise it!

There is a limit, in that you can still do no more than 3 combos total, whether they're 3/3 or 3/2 (or 4/3, or 4/3/2).

[FollowYourHeart]

The only 3/3 Jenny has landed in competition is the 3toe/3toe. She has worked on many different 3/3's and that is why you think she was doing flip/toe and loop/loop. She has NOT done them in competition or even attempted them.

I find the comment about being a coach and sitting with a rule book very funny. The rulebook must be years and years old, say, before Zayak won Worlds. ;) A real coach should know the most basic rules of the sport they teach. :roll:

[3Loop3Loop]

Is this wise for her to attempt this? I'd rather see Jenny do a clean long with a 3Toe3Toe, rather than try a 3Flip3Toe, and 5 other triples for 7 triples total; like at SA. Just the same, I wish her well and love her skating! Are any of the other ladies at Worlds planning triple triples of this difficulty?

[supersk8er]

Originally posted by FollowYourHeart
The only 3/3 Jenny has landed in competition is the 3toe/3toe. She has worked on many different 3/3's and that is why you think she was doing flip/toe and loop/loop. She has NOT done them in competition or even attempted them.

I find the comment about being a coach and sitting with a rule book very funny. The rulebook must be years and years old, say, before Zayak won Worlds. ;) A real coach should know the most basic rules of the sport they teach. :roll:

Maybe she just got confused...:oops: