Why US Skaters Will Never Dress Like the Russians...

[adrianchew]

Got that from here...

http://www.usfsa.org/news/2001-02/rulebook.htm

[quote:f167fccc2e][b:f167fccc2e]SSR 19.02 [/b:f167fccc2e]

Clothing for men cannot be theatrical in nature. Men must wear full-length trousers. Tights are not permitted. The clothing must have a neckline which does not expose the chest, must not be sleeveless and must be without excessive decoration such as beads, sequins and the like.

[b:f167fccc2e]SSR 19.03 [/b:f167fccc2e]

Clothing for ladies cannot be theatrical in nature. They must have skirts and pants covering the hips and posterior. A unitard is not acceptable. A bare midriff is not acceptable. Clothing must be without excessive decoration such as beads, sequins, feathers and the like. [/quote:f167fccc2e]

That's why you won't see US skaters in sequined glory! - Interesting, its ok for guys to have feathers, but not the ladies? :lol:

[adrianchew]

[quote:a9a10ab911][b:a9a10ab911]SSR 19.04 [/b:a9a10ab911]

Any ornamentation attached to the clothing must be firmly fastened so as not to fall off while skating under normal competitive conditions. [/quote:a9a10ab911]

So if what happened recently with Shae-Lynn was a USFSA competition, it would be a mandatory 0.1 deduction in the second mark.

Is this the same for Canadian competitions and ISU ones?

[Mazurka Girl]

I always laugh at the part where it says to "cover the posterior". We don't want them wearing a thong costume but they could express it in more of a 21st century way. :lol:

[Scott]

Adrian, the Russians do seem to have a certain "flair" for costuming. It would be rather difficult to picture any us or Canadian in outfits that would come close to what some of the Russians wear. Except maybe Rudi Galindo's outfits! American and candian men are much more conservativer in appearance. Which is what i prefer. I hate it when the costume takes away from the skating.

[Emilieanne]

We have all seen some real fashion disasters over the years. No one nation has a monopoly on that.

The ladies, men and pairs generally do not look all that bad, but the dancers look like escapees from a very bad fright show :o :oops: and it is getting worse. Some of the costumes do not even look well made, despite the fact that they probably cost a fortune. That IS distracting :!:

Call me old-fashioned but I remember when the men wore those elegant dance tuxes and the ladies wore elegant dresses, not to mention that ladies with long hair always put it up, and NEVER did I see a gentleman look like he needed either a haircut, shave or a shower :!: Think about it. :mrgreen:

It sure would be refreshing to see good taste and style again :idea: and that once again the skating will be the focus of our attention. 8)

[Lee]

Adrian, the USFSA rules are basically the same as the ISU rules re: costuming. Here are the SC rules:

[quote:54269ff199][b:54269ff199]5000-3.5 Clothing[/b:54269ff199]
The Clothing of competitors must be modest, dignified and appropriate for athletic competition -- not garish or theatrical in design. Clothing may however, reflect the character of the music chosen:

(1) [u:54269ff199]Type of Clothing[/u:54269ff199]: Ladies must wear a skirt. Men must wear full length trousers; no tights are permitted and the clothing must not be sleeveless. Accessories and props are not permitted.

(2) [u:54269ff199]Deduction For Not Complying[/u:54269ff199]: Clothing not meeting the foregoing requirements must be penalized by the judges by a deduction of 0.1 in the mark for presentation.[/quote:54269ff199]

Just for emphasis, I guess, item #1 above is repeated in the dance section...wonder why? :lol:

You can be sure neither the USFSA or SC would put in place any rules that would be more restrictive for their skaters than what's in place at the ISU level. It would be grossly unfair to assume that skaters would work with one costume for a program at their domestic events and, in order to 'keep up with the Russians' (to use your comparison), develop a new costume for international events.

All you need to do is take a look at the dance costumes -- sequins, feathers, nude spandex and excessive 'fluff' knows no boundaries!

It looks to me, upon reading your link, Adrian, that the deduction applies to the first rule (which is essentially the same, almost word for word as the corresponding SC rule) and that the next three are further 'explanations' and 'expectations.'

It's not unusual for a skater to have a 'wreck' with a costume and something that's never fallen off before to suddenly come loose. I'm sure there are American judges floating around who could tell us if they are indeed required to take a deduction for a piece of something falling off a costume.

[KHenry14]

I don't get this...almost every top dance team for the past 4 years has worn "theatrical" costumes. I mean how else would you describe anything that FP&M has every worn?? But I don't believe for a second that any of these teams has ever been deducted for a costume. So I guess this is one of those rules that are winked at. :wink: Sort of like the don't collude with other judges rule!!! :frus:

Ken

[Emilieanne]

:idea: :idea: Perhaps we need a third mark for "packaging" which would cover such issues. I am quite sure that if we did, the dancers would get real low marks. In recent years, they have looked atrocious :!: :oops: 8O I know some judges who would even give some of the so-called top-name dancers a 0.0 for "packaging"...it is so bad. UGH :!:

I can bet that if a "packaging" mark (or some such) were part of the scoring that the fashion scene would get cleaned up real fast. Maybe we would see some elegance and dignity again and be able to focus on the skating. That would be a real treat :!:

OK, let's start a game...let's give "packaging" marks...then add it to what the skaters actually got and you sure would see a radically different placement. :lol: :halo: :mrgreen:

[originalQA]

I *HATE* the idea of competitors getting scored on costumes.
This is a ***SPORT***!!!
I would much rather see everyone in the same outfits, like team uniforms, then see them be marked, or penalized, for too much originality.
There should not be a law against being tacky, but I would rather NOT see nipples, belly buttons and Mens bulges. That is strictly MY opinion.
As for the skirt rule, that sucks.
Aren't some programs just screaming for the Ladies to wear pants? IMO, Irina does not belong in a skirt.....

[~*balletic*~]

Does this mean our ladies won't be covered primarily in illusion fabric with strategically placed strips of fabric ? :twisted: I'm all for it then !

I found that interesting about the excess sequining. Was this rule in effect when Tania Kwiatkowski and Nicole Bobek were eligible?

[Patty]

[quote:f6f90ab6a5="Lee"]Adrian, the USFSA rules are basically the same as the ISU rules re: costuming. Here are the SC rules:

[quote:f6f90ab6a5][b:f6f90ab6a5]5000-3.5 Clothing[/b:f6f90ab6a5]
The Clothing of competitors must be modest, dignified and appropriate for athletic competition -- not garish or theatrical in design. Clothing may however, reflect the character of the music chosen:

(1) [u:f6f90ab6a5]Type of Clothing[/u:f6f90ab6a5]: Ladies must wear a skirt. Men must wear full length trousers; no tights are permitted and the clothing must not be sleeveless. Accessories and props are not permitted.

(2) [u:f6f90ab6a5]Deduction For Not Complying[/u:f6f90ab6a5]: Clothing not meeting the foregoing requirements must be penalized by the judges by a deduction of 0.1 in the mark for presentation.[/quote:f6f90ab6a5]

Just for emphasis, I guess, item #1 above is repeated in the dance section...wonder why? :lol:
[/quote:f6f90ab6a5]

Well, Plushy costumes are "garish or theatrical in design", and some did not "reflect the character of the music chosen." So did he ever receive a 0.1 deduction?

Plushy should have saved his "Once Upon a Time in America" bull fighter costume for his Carmen program. Then that costume would have reflected the character of the music chosen.

[loveskating]

I love the theatrical costumes...loved Kulik's Pagliacci costume, it was perfect for the music. I enjoyed his Rhapsody costume totally...and most of all trying to figure out what the heck Tarasova had in mind as to symbolism. Artistry is always evident to me when something is not easy, when something evokes, causes controversey, when there is symbolism on more than one level...and that is FUN to me, because it challenges my mind and increases my knowledge.

I love the chiffon flowing when skaters like Irina and B&S skate so seamlessly and fast. I love sequins and rhinestones bouncing the light all over the place (thinking of Grishuk & Platov's 1994 R&R costumes). I adore the sequins on Timmy's tie for his 2002 LP.

For me, what makes figure skating so grand is that it is a sport, but it is "the artist of all sports". It is unique, one of a kind, special, part of, but also outside the boundaries, so its more interesting, therefore, more inspiring. You never know what the heck is going to happen on the ice, and the costumes are part of that. I'd prefer, therefore, that the errors be to the outlandish end, rather than the conservative end of a spectrum.

I just want to see a costume that evokes the meaning of the character or the music...Irina should have had a teal blue or crimson red costume for Tosca...there is no character in opera so required to wear a specifically crimson red dress for the Scarpia scenes...the dresses themselves are sometimes famous. In fact, when my daughter first saw Tosca at the age of 9, all she could talk about was Tosca's "beautiful red dress" and how Pavarotti's voice "sparkled". Just plain pretty is also ok by me.

[Blue Ridge]

Long live over-the-top costumes! Especially in Ice Dance! :P

[CanAmSk8ter]

Adrian, are you referring to when Shae-Lynn lost her barrette at Lalique last year? If so, I don't think there was a deduction for that because it was in her hair and not technically part of her costume.

[blue111moon]

There's nothing new about those rules - they've been in the USFSA Rulebook for more than a decade. The no tights on men was added back in Boitano's day - and we have Toller Cranston to thank for the cover-the-chest-hair part. The "no unitard - must have skirt that covers the posterior goes back to the Debi Thomas/Katerina Witt days when fashion trends transformed skirts into little more than fringe and spangles and high-cut leg openings threatened to reach the armpits. The newest part is the no-bare midriff clause, which spawned the explosion of illusion fabric we see now.

The problem is that "garish" and "theatrical" are terms that are open to a lot of interpretation. What's garish to some eyes may be fine to others. As far as I'm concerned - and I've heard the comment from a lot of judges, - as long as the costume doesn't distract from the performance and isn't dangerous to the skaters (or spectators or the athletes skating afterward) and doesn't openly break any of the stated rules, it's fine and they don't bother with deductions. Unfortunately many - too many - of the ice dance costumes from recent years seem to my eyes to be falling into the first two violations and just barely squeaking by on the third.

[~*balletic*~]

I agree with loveskating about the costumes. It's a big part of what makes figure skating unique as a sport.
Quite frankly, the costumes are something I eagerly anticipate every year, and when I love a costume, it helps me enjoy the program even more.

[Emilieanne]

Hey, I don't really like the idea of being scored on costumes, but lately they have been so atrocious :roll: :oops: that I cannot think of any other means of restoring some of the good taste and dignity that was once the hallmark of fine figure skating. What do any of the rest of you suggest to address this :?: :?: We all know this is getting way out of hand...it is so bad that I know of some judges who are ready to puke every time they have to judge a dance event because of the horrible clothes. :P I don't even want to think of the number of times I have seen some skaters look like they badly needed a shower and shave :!: :!: YUCK :!:

[donnamarie]

Omigod, I would hate to see dancers wear nothing but black tuxedos and dresses! How boring that would be!

Yes there are some atrocious costumes but there is much creativity also ... and personally I like long hair on men ...

It annoys me when the women wear pants that don't cover their bottoms but almost look like thongs ... nobody ever seems to be penalized for this. In general the guidelines seem to be ignored, are not enforced, and thus they are meaningless.

Yet it's a fine line between having guidelines and yet allowing/encouraging creativity. I'd rather err on the side of too much outrageousness than of having everyone look the same ... I love the experimentation and creativity. If I have to live with the thongs, oh well, it's better than the alternative, which might be to limit everyone's originality too much.

[Emilieanne]

Tuxes and elegant dresses have been done in a rainbow of colors and were absolutely gorgeous! Definitely not boring! :) :D

Those thongs underneath some dresses are awful! :oops: That should be [b:def58d6d6e]severely[/b:def58d6d6e] penalized.

There is also a huge difference between "creativity" and "sloppiness" and all too often "creativity" has been used as an excuse for "sloppiness." There is absolutely NO excuse whatsoever for ANYONE to look like they do not take proper care of their clothes, appear unkempt or like they are allergic to soap :oops: :x YUCK!

[icenut84]

I think this thread is a perfect example of why skaters should never be marked on their costumes! There's way too much difference of opinion. Some people love the originality and creativity of the costumes, and the way they set skating apart from other sports. Others hate them and wish everyone would take what they see as more pride in their appearance. I personally agree with those who said they love the costumes. It's a part of the whole sport. Wouldn't it be boring if all the skaters came out in something like black trousers and a black top every time! Costumes are a way to help express the music and the choreography and the whole idea. On the whole, I don't think the costumes are that bad. Some may be a little over the top but not so much that you can't enjoy the programme. I think they should leave well alone and allow the skaters to wear what they want (within reason, lol).
(It would be daft to mark the skaters on their costumes anyway, as they are designed by someone else!)

[TashaKat]

[quote:14c6ee49f6="icenut84"]I personally agree with those who said they love the costumes. It's a part of the whole sport. Wouldn't it be boring if all the skaters came out in something like black trousers and a black top every time! Costumes are a way to help express the music and the choreography and the whole idea. On the whole, I don't think the costumes are that bad. Some may be a little over the top but not so much that you can't enjoy the programme. I think they should leave well alone and allow the skaters to wear what they want (within reason, lol).
(It would be daft to mark the skaters on their costumes anyway, as they are designed by someone else!)[/quote:14c6ee49f6]

.... and what would we have to talk about if they all wore a 'uniform'? It gives us endless topics for giggling, sorry, discussion ;)

I agree that skating is a sport but I also see it (and it is the reason that I LOVE it) as an art form :) I can't think of anything more boring than a jumpfest (though I love to watch well performed jumps) in matching costumes.

You have to wonder WHY, though, some of them end up with such horrors. It's not as if 'x' goes out to a shop on their own and buys a dress ....... there's the dressmaker, the coach, the choreographer, the skater, the parents, the relatives, the friends ......... surely somebody somewhere must say "YUK" .... just think of Shae's 'Little Bo Peep' dress ........ how can anyone not have said "no way" to that one before it was finished?

[melanieuk]

I agree that costumes maketh the performance.
The costume can make or break - it's a good edge to have. No pun intended! :roll:

Too many rules and regulations about what the skaters have to do, and not enough for the judges and federations etc.