Question about Top 3 "controlling own destiny"....

[originalQA]

I have wondered this for years, and have never asked about it, and I hope I can come across making some sense.

I know if you are in the Top 3 after the SP (not including competitions with QR's), and you win the LP, you win the Gold.

But are there ever any situations where that is not the case?

For Example:

After the SP, you have Michelle, Irina, Sasha and Sarah, and they all are within just 1/10th of a point from each other, average.

In the LP, you have an average technical/presentation score as follows:

Sarah - 5.9/5.9
Michelle - 5.4/5.5
Irina - 5.3/5.4
Sasha - 5.2/5.4

Now, with the LP being worth so much more than the SP, is there any way Sarah would win the overall competition out of pure force of score?
Or would Michelle still win?

If I am overlooking something very easy, I am not aware..... 8O

[Lee]

What you're overlooking is the factored placement points for each portion of the event. The scores themselves are meaningless other than to act as 'placeholders' for each judge.

The accountants, using OBO, calculate the placement of each skater within each portion of the event. In an event without a Q-round, the short program has a factored placing of 0.5, and the long program is worth 1.0. To get each skater's points, multiply their placement in that portion of the program by the factor.

In your scenario, the long program results would be (placement X 1.0):

Sarah - 1.0 FP
Michelle - 2.0 FP
Irina - 3.0 FP
Sasha - 4.0 FP

I'm assuming your short program finish is the order you listed the skaters in, so the factored points for the short would be as follows (placement X 0.5):

Michelle - 0.5
Irina - 1.0
Sasha - 1.5
Sarah - 2.0

Total points for the skaters after the entire event would be as follows:

Michelle - 2.5
Sarah - 3.0
Irina - 4.0
Sasha - 5.5

The skater with the lowest Total Factored Points at the end of the event is the winner. If there is a tie in the total points, the skater who placed higher in the freeskate wins.

[originalQA]

Thanks Lee, I suspected it was something I knew, but just could not put my finger on. :lol:

[duane]

i've always determined the overall placements (with no QR) this way: SP + 2LP.

so, if jane is 5th in the SP and 3rd in the LP, her score is 11.
if mary is 3rd in the SP and 5th in the LP, her score is 13.
if sue is 1st in the SP and 6th in the LP, her score is also 13 (however, mary would place over sue because her LP score is higher).

:)

[Scott]

[quote:719f5d6641="duane"]i've always determined the overall placements (with no QR) this way: SP + 2LP.

so, if jane is 5th in the SP and 3rd in the LP, her score is 11.
if mary is 3rd in the SP and 5th in the LP, her score is 13.
if sue is 1st in the SP and 6th in the LP, her score is also 13 (however, mary would place over sue because her LP score is higher).

:)[/quote:719f5d6641]

Does this system always work or have you had different end results with the actual results?

[Ellyn]

[quote:9eb29d7fbe="Scott"][quote:9eb29d7fbe="duane"]i've always determined the overall placements (with no QR) this way: SP + 2LP.

so, if jane is 5th in the SP and 3rd in the LP, her score is 11.
if mary is 3rd in the SP and 5th in the LP, her score is 13.
if sue is 1st in the SP and 6th in the LP, her score is also 13 (however, mary would place over sue because her LP score is higher).

:)[/quote:9eb29d7fbe]

Does this system always work or have you had different end results with the actual results?[/quote:9eb29d7fbe]

That would always work for events with just a short and long program.
The actual factors used in the factored placement system are 0.5 for short program and 1.0 for long, so just divide all of duane's numbers in half.

The long program (or free dance) factor is always 1.0, and the previous phases are multiplied by factors less than 1 to achieve the correct balance. E.g., 0.4 for qual rounds, 0.6 for short program.

[duane]

[quote:783b8c71a2="Scott"]Does this system always work or have you had different end results with the actual results?[/quote:783b8c71a2]

yes. as ellyn replied, this system has always worked with competitions with just a short and long program.

like the past Olympics...sarah was 4th in the SP and 1st in the LP, so her score is 6. irina was second in both the SP and LP, so her score is also 6 (tho sarah won gold because her LP placed higher). michelle, with a score of 7, placed 3rd.

with this system, one doesnt have to worry about fractions/decimals and all. i think it's much easier. :)