Nancy and Tonya 10 Years Later

[IceDanceSk8er]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/149717p-132002c.html

[Tapper]

Wow, what an article! Brings it all back. I'm glad to hear that Nancy is happy and doing well.

And geeezo flip! That Tonya is a trip. I certainly wouldn't want to meet her in a dark alley... or "in the parking lot of a Texas strip club." Sounds like something out of a made for TV movie.

[icedancer2]

I ran into Tonya about 2-3 years ago at a local ISI-type comp. She was selling autographed pictures of herself for $25 or polaroids of herself with anyone who wanted it for $10. I think she sold one picture. It was pretty sad.

[skatepixie]

Tonya looks like one of the thugs she hired....its really gross...

[duane]

Interesting article. Wow, tho it's now been ten years, it seems like this incident occurred much longer ago.

So, Tonya earned $14,000 for her last fight. Well, if she has 3-4 fights (or more) per year, she is doing ok in terms of making a living.

And, regarding the 94 Olympics, we obviously won't be hearing Nancy say "I didn't lose the gold, but won the silver". ;)

[dooobedooo]

I didn't much care for the dissing of Baiul in the article.

IMO Baiul had the most fabulous artistry that absolutely propelled her into a class way above the competition.

[Flatfoote]

"She hasn't spoken to Tonya since the two women met on a photo shoot as part of the U.S. Olympic team in Lillehammer."

Do they mean the photo shoot just before the Olympics? Ummm...they have "spoken" since, in that face-to-face thing they did on one station (was it FOX?) a few years later.

[CarolA0923]

I don't think they actually spoke to each other during that face to face thing. I think they both spoke to the moderator. I don't recall much except that Tonya pleaded with Nancy that she was not guilty and Nancy just looked really uncomfortable.

[Sheila]

I will always be sad for what could have been for Tonya. She was the very best skater America had at that time and still today the ladies aren't doing triple axels like she could. When the whole thing happened I was devestated because I knew lesser skaters would take her place and that's exactly what happened. People can feel sorry for her or even laugh at her or hate her but one thing they can't do is take away what a gifted skater she really was. If you say she did that herself, I say what happened happened and she is still the greatest American ladies skater we ever had.

[Roma]

Originally posted by Sheila
I will always be sad for what could have been for Tonya. She was the very best skater America had at that time and still today the ladies aren't doing triple axels like she could. When the whole thing happened I was devestated because I knew lesser skaters would take her place and that's exactly what happened. People can feel sorry for her or even laugh at her or hate her but one thing they can't do is take away what a gifted skater she really was. If you say she did that herself, I say what happened happened and she is still the greatest American ladies skater we ever had.

I don't think she is THE greatest, but I certainly agree that she was an amazing skater. I think one thing that gets lost in all the media circus surrounding Tonya and Nancy is that Tonya was an extraordinarily gifted - and accomplished - skater. Although my all-time favorite skater is Kristi Yamaguchi, Tonya's 1991 National gold medal skate, in which she landed 7 triples including a triple axel and a 3/3, is one of my favorite skating performances ever.

In the current article, I find the use of THE most unflattering picture of Tonya they could possibly find just another example of the media's desire to present Tonya as ugly, and of course the implication is that ugly = guilty. :roll: The media didn't portray Tonya and Nancy accurately in 1994, so it's no surprise that they are still presenting them in the one-dimensional, good vs. evil mode now.

[Tapper]

I've been down this path before... and though I'm tempted to nudge the angry mutt, I'm going to just let this sleeping dog lie. Except to say, that I love Nancy and I think she was robbed....

Sorry, I just couldn't help myself. ;)

[Aaron W]

Originally posted by Tapper
I've been down this path before... and though I'm tempted to nudge the angry mutt, I'm going to just let this sleeping dog lie. Except to say, that I love Nancy and I think she was robbed....

Sorry, I just couldn't help myself. ;)

LOL, this will probably just bring up more arguments, but I agree with you. :)

[iceskater2]

I can not let this go. But I suspect I will wish I kept it to myself. Tonya had everything going against her but her skating talent. I would suspect it was hard for her to believe in that talent when all along she knew she was the girl with average looks. Inexpensive costumes, HELL, if you skate you know how expensive it is. It is amazing she got as far as she did with the financial means she had. I do not condon the things she did, it saddens me that she took herself down like she did. But one has not changed, I still admire her skating and the fact that she was able to get to the top with such limited resources... The sports community is so willing to forgive fighters, basketball players, baseball players, crocked judging and countless other things, but please do not let anyone try and forgive or better yet try to understand Tonya Harding. My 2 cents.

[Sheila]

Thank you Ice, very well said. As to those who felt the need to post "mutt" referances, these remarks were tasteless, but I'm sure the posters are aware of this.

[Tapper]

Originally posted by Sheila
Thank you Ice, very well said. As to those who felt the need to post "mutt" referances, these remarks were tasteless, but I'm sure the posters are aware of this.

I beg your pardon? What do you think was tasteless about my post?

I don't know what you think I was saying, but I was using the very common metaphor of "letting the sleeping dog lie." Since you evidently have either never heard the expression or have never really understood what it means, I will explain it to you for your benefit as well as for my good name.

To "let a sleeping dog lie" means "not to disturb something best left alone." The idea behind it is that if a dog, especially an angry one, is sleeping you are better off not waking it. In the metaphor as I used it the "dog" or "mutt", the "something best left alone" is the issue/argument of who should have won the gold, Nancy or Oksana. This issue would be best left alone because to bring it up would only cause a lot of rehashing of old business that people still feel passionate about when reminded. By stating that I thought Nancy was robbed, I was "jokingly" nudging the issue that many many fans were hot about for a long time, despite my not wanting to start it all up again. Do you understand?

So, my post was not tasteless. And, I never intended it to be. If there is some new "tasteless" meaning to the word "mutt" (the word you seem to take particular issue with) then that's your definintion of the word, not mine. I'm likely a billion years older than you, and grew up in a much more civilized and "tasteful" world than either of us find ourselves surrounded by today... and when I was growing up back in the dark ages, where I came from, a dog and a mutt and a mongrel were all the same animal. And, In my world today they are still all the same animal. In your world it may be different.

I do my best to maintain standards of good taste. It was a metaphor, plain and simple. And it was just as tasteful as Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers doing the Continental.

I'm offended by your post. And, IMHO, you owe me an apology.

[Sheila]

I rest my case.:roll: :roll:

[Tapper]

Originally posted by Sheila
I rest my case.:roll: :roll:


As do I.

[icedancer2]

Okay, getting back to the subject, the Oregonian newspaper ran a couple of articles yesterday on Tonya/Nancy as a lead-in to Nationals and figure skating in general which I thought might be worth posting here:

http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/sports/1073134568312870.xml

http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/sports/1073135273312870.xml

I especially like this one because it so accurately describes the feeling here in Portland in the months after the event:

http://www.oregonlive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/sports/1073134680312870.xml?oregonian?spz

And most people don't know that they closed the rink where Tonya trained and a lot of the paparazzi-type stuff happened in the months after the "whack":

http://www.oregonlive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/metro_south_news/1072616315321660.xml?oregonian?smn

[Tapper]

Originally posted by icedancer2
I especially like this one because it so accurately describes the feeling here in Portland in the months after the event:

http://www.oregonlive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/sports/1073134680312870.xml?oregonian?spz

Thanks for that link. I think it's a thoughtful review and reflection on the incident. I especially like the image of her putting it all in a box and sealing it up, and then after ten years having to reopen it to try to find an answer to her question.

"It was a crazy, compelling, annoying and consuming saga. And it's fair to think that with a decade's perspective we now would be able to look back and answer the question: What can we learn from this story?

Beats me."

My sentiments, exactly.

[Sheila]

Wow, this was a great read. I especially liked the fact that the reporter bothered to mentioned that MK's idol in those days was Tonya, you don't ever read that. The best part was about Tonya's 3/axel and how skaters today don't appear to even want to try it. I think it is more of a fact that they can't. lol

[smallsilly]

As to those who felt the need to post "mutt" referances, these remarks were tasteless, but I'm sure the posters are aware of this.

I think he/she was being figurative? You know, like "Stir the Pot", "open a can of worms", "tempt the Skate Gods" etc...:?:

Anyway I think Nancy should have won as well. I almost felt like the judging was based on how Nancy and Oksana USUALLY skated, not how they skated at that particular competition.

[Sheila]

I was glad Oksana won. I was even happier after I heard Nancy's on mike comments when they couldn't find Ok's national anthem right away and they had to wait. Then there was DisneyWorld. True colors and all that.

[Little Bit]

I think I posted something in the wrong place.

I agree, I think Tonya should be forgiven. As far as Nancy is concerned, I don't like her! She is a very poor sport, just look at how she dissed Oxana Biehl (sorry spelled name wrong) and the silver medal. I also can't stand her smile! Gross! Can we say UGLY! She married her promotions manager. Who remember was already married with children. Nancy is a home wrecker too! Please don't get me started!

I wish Tonya had it better and the USFSA would welcome her back, after all Baseball is with Pete Rose. What about the drug users and woman beaters in Baseball, Football etc. They seam to be more accepting then the USFSA.

Remember Tonya has a lot to offer many young skaters. Where by Nancy nothing!

OK - I bet I get a backlash for this one too!
I'll get off the soap box now.

Have a great year in 2004 everyone~

[Sheila]

Little, while I like your thinking, that will never happen and Pete Rose will never be in the BHF. If the skaters hall of fame were based on who did the best technical jumps in womens fs as it should be then Midori and Tonya would be honered but this is about clean noses and clean skates. To me it is practically worthless. Tonya and Midori were the only ladies who took the technical aspects of women's fs to a higher level and the powers that be are well aware of that, trust me.

[Schmeck]

Because baseball accepts scums, the USFSA should too? What logic, LOL!

Biggest waste of talent - tie between Oksana and Tonya!

[Little Bit]

I just knew that post would open a can of worms. I thought, and I might be wrong, but isn't there a saying that goes something like this.
"To err is human, but to forgive divine" I guess the USFSA is divine............ Just making a comment.

[Sheila]

No Lb- the USFSA just have their heads up their collective bums. lol

[Little Bit]

LOL you mad eme smile with that I thank you...Shelia

[jcspkbfan]

Does anyone else think it's sad the 10th anniversary of the "whack-whack" incident (man, does that make me feel old--LOL!) has gotten more media coverage than any skating event taking place this season so far? :evil:

[shanilia]

"After the assault in Detroit, Nancy screamed, "Why me?" on the floor of Cobo Hall. She said later she should have yelled, "Why anybody?"

That image of a sobbing, egocentric skater never entirely disappeared,..."

Egocentric? Her dream was on the line, the attack was the greatest threat to achieving her dream, and she was the target of the attack, so of course she'd ask, "Why me?" I can't believe anyone would've thought that she was egocentric.

[slimpme]

Originally posted by iceskater2
I can not let this go. But I suspect I will wish I kept it to myself. Tonya had everything going against her but her skating talent. I would suspect it was hard for her to believe in that talent when all along she knew she was the girl with average looks. Inexpensive costumes, HELL, if you skate you know how expensive it is. It is amazing she got as far as she did with the financial means she had. I do not condon the things she did, it saddens me that she took herself down like she did. But one has not changed, I still admire her skating and the fact that she was able to get to the top with such limited resources... The sports community is so willing to forgive fighters, basketball players, baseball players, crocked judging and countless other things, but please do not let anyone try and forgive or better yet try to understand Tonya Harding. My 2 cents.

Before amateur skaters were allowed to earn money from competition, e very few skaters were able to make it to the elite level without serious financial sacrifice. Tai Babilonia's father worked two and three jobs to make ends meet for her skating, Rudy Galindo's family had little or no money to put toward his; Todd Eldredge was able to continue competing because his community helded foot the bill for his expenses. Even the so-called Ice Princess (Peggy Fleming, Dorothy Hamill and Nancy Kerrigan) weren't exacly rolling in money; all were from fairly modest circumstances, despite Nancy's Vera Wang skate dresses. And as for having to overcome adversity -- Nancy Kerrigan's mother was blind, Oksana Baiul had no mother, Elaine Zayak lost a couple of toes in a freak accident as a child, Scottie Hamilton had serious health issues growing up, Rudy's coach and brother both died of AIDS while he was training. Nobody had it easy, and yet they all did the things that Tonya seemed most reluctant to do -- work hard and listen to sound advice. 1994 wasn't Harding's only shot at Olympics. She was on the team that competed in Albertville in 1992, except rather than show up early to acclimate to condiditions in France as many of the athletes did, she followed her own counsel, waited til the very last minute to arrive in Europe, suffered through jet lag (quel suprise!) and didn't skate particularly well (IIRC).

No, not everyone had money, but not everyone had an (ex)husband whose "friends" were willing to take out the competition either.

The Oregonian articles got something right -- it was a terrible waste of talent. Not that she could have been the greatest (Midori Ito had as much, if not more, athletic ability but would anyone say she was the greatest figure skater ever??) but she had talent and she squandered it. She's only got herself to blame.

[Samskate]

slimpme, you made some very valid points.

As far as someone calling Nancy a homewrecker, it isn't fair or appropriate to comment on things like that when you don't know what the circumstances of that situation were. The only people who do know are those who were involved.

[ariel]

Everyone is intitled to their opnions because that's what they are, just opinions. No more , no less. My opinion is that both Midori and Tonya were the two greatest woman skaters to ever take the ice regardless of what their personal lives were like. The records speaks for itself. Tonya and Midori did TRIPLE AXELS and did them well. The skaters today may be more artistic but will not come up to their jumping level anytime soon unless Ando can land that quad at Worlds. Then she can join Tonya and Midori in the elite group of two who can jump in competion and get it done.

[Logan1257]

Wow ariel it sure sounds like you prefer jumps over good skating or quality skating but hey if thats what you enjoy most about the sport then those would be your version of the best skaters. I disagree but respect your opinion none the less.

[ariel]

I am tired of everyone insisting that if you are a good jumper you can't be artistic. That is just so much BS- pardon my French.

[Little Bit]

I agree............:D

[Logan1257]

Little Bit and ariel....
I was in no way implying that if you are a good jumper you can not be artisitc. If it came out that way i am sorry but thats not what i meant. I meant Midori Ito, Tonya Harding, and Miki Ando, who you mentioned all as being some of the best ever skaters to take the ice (and backed that up by saying they did triple axels), have no artisitc skill. No I know that a lot of skaters can posess both qualities for example I thought Irina, Kristi, and Sasha have both, but for the most part the outstanding jumpers lack in a lot of their other skills. For example when Tonya and Midori missed their triple axel at a competition they had nothing else to back them up and were beaten by skaters like Yamaguchi and Kerrigan. I dont think Miki Ando would have won this years japanese nationals had she not landed the quad cause her other qualities are way lower then those of Suguri and Arakawra. It is very important to have both and i believe some do but the skates you listed did not, i do however agree with you that Midori Ito will be a very remembered skater.

[ariel]

It may interest some fans to know that skating is first and foremost a sport, not a ballet.

[slimpme]

Originally posted by ariel
It may interest some fans to know that skating is first and foremost a sport, not a ballet.

I think most people would agree with that statement. To my mind, however, athleticism and artistry in equal measure is what makes figure skating such a fascinating sport. My favorite skaters are those who can master both the athletic and artistic requirements. In recent years, Yagudin springs to mind as someone who has been able to demonstrate both those qualities. When the jumps are presented in an artistic context, the combination is simply phenomenal (and, I would argue, unbeatable).

BUT when a skater who has strong athletic ability and not a great deal of artistry has a problem with his/her jumps, then there's very little of interest to see. I think Tim Goebbel has made an effort to develop his artistry over the last several years, still, when the jumps deserted him at Nationals, it was particularly painful to watch, as he had very little else to sustain the program.

[Little Bit]

While I do agree that the jumps are important. I also believe that the over all skate is just as important. I think skaters like Kristi, Sara and others who excel in both areas, grace and jumps are the best. However, I do not like how Nancy skates. Personally, I find her boring and lacking overall. And as far as Nancy being prettier than Tonya, well recently I have seen some pretty nice photos of Tonya on TV. OK, they are old photos, but they were nice. As many know I just really don't like her after how she acted at the Olympics. So, I admit, I never watch her skate anymore. I also believe a (bad) personality shines thru making a person who other may see as pretty an ugly person. Does anyone know what I mean? I hope so! I don't want to get flack about that, but I may.

I hope that our (USA) future holds many more great skaters to come along. I know from watching local and regional competitions that I enjoy the skaters best who are very graceful, and have the powerful jumps. I believe skaters can have everything.

OK, now that is my two cents...... :lol: