What Sasha needs most [Archive]

sachelle

12-25-2003, 01:03 AM

Hi Bondo, happy holidays and all that. Gee, were we to live near Sasha, we'd get to try her famous cookies.

Button says she has great technique. Obviously she must visualize herself skating cleanly, but people on stage say it helps your nerves to see the audience, the "scary people" as sitting on the throne, and I don't mean the one in England.

I think Sasha is spooked by Kwan who shows up here and there, and when she skated bad at the made for TV event, she was psychologically
vulnerable. She is vulnerable. And she knows Michelle is always crowd favorite here and moneymaker for USFSA. That's a lot to daunt one. If Michelle takes 2nd in the big comps she will likely quit eligible skating, as we all know all that matters is Turino, and she has to be on top here to go as a viable favorite.

Gaela

12-25-2003, 02:10 PM

My little theory, for what it is worth, is that Kween/Kwandonna is continuting to compete BECAUSE of Sasha, who threatens to supplant her as the darling Princess of American skating. The commentators treat her as such already.

I was never a huge Kwandonna fan, but have been really impressed with her since Sasha came on the scene. Kwandonna is a class act all the way, and her skating is imbued with her maturity, something Sasha just doesn't yet have.

I expect Kween to go it again at Nationals, and wonder if she's going to make it eight world titles this year.

loveskating

12-26-2003, 09:39 PM

Originally posted by sachelle
is 100% confidence she can beat any skater in the world. People expect her to best Kwan at last, but Kwan is feared by many skaters as she is the best competitor out there. With solid technique.

Sasha needs a skating psychologist, and needs to picture her main rivals splatting. Visualization Sasha. Worked for 4 year old Sarah Hughes. She never doubted or feared herself competing against Kwan.

If Robin is really good at technique and pumping Sasha up to fight, maybe Sasha will win the majors. Better health to TT. She is some gal.

Sasha has, and has had, the goods to beat anyone in the world except perhaps Irina at her very best (or perhaps Naomi Nari Nam with a lutz at all). She has never been a conservative skater, who relies on others to make mistakes...she has always prepared winning programs.

Maybe that's the problem, eh? Maybe she is too honest and passionately devoted to the actual skating for the way things are at this time?

Sasha hasn't been real consistent on the jumps at times...neither was Paul Wylie, Janet Lynn or Ilia Kulik...big deal, they are still very great skaters.

nyskatefan

12-26-2003, 10:01 PM

I really can't imagine that she is spooked by Michelle. Sasha certainly has the talent to be a champion, but IMO the gold medals need to come before the accolades. I said this last year and again this year ... that I didn't think all the hype was doing her any good. And I don't necessarily blame this on Sasha. The commentators have put her on a pedastal, when she really needed to get there on her own. I think it has put added pressure on her that she really didn't need.

I'm a Michelle fan and am tickled to death that she wants to compete more and improve technically. Having said that, it would be wonderful to see both she and Sasha skate clean at Nats and let the chips fall where they may.

And to disagree with sachelle a bit ... I actually would like to see MK go to Turino NOT the favorite. It's a heavy mantle to carry going into the Olympics. I'd like to see someone else with all the pressure on their shoulders for a change.

Gaela

12-27-2003, 09:08 AM

Sasha has, and has had, the goods to beat anyone in the world except perhaps Irina at her very best (or perhaps Naomi Nari Nam with a lutz at all).

Hmm. I don't agree. Not only Irina, don't forget Michelle, and I think FUMIE at her very best has the goods to beat a clean Sasha, and if Sokolova gained consistency, I think she could challenge her too--I think she might challenge MK as well, if she skated as well as she did at worlds last year but had more experience/performance ability under her belt. Given a bit of time, perhaps Kostner or the up and coming Japanese girl who was at Skate Canada (I forget her name because I mix them up--Nakano?) could to.

Yes, Sasha is an extremely talented young skater, in many ways the best of the field, but not in all ways. And 'having' the goods is one thing, but every acorn does not become an oak, case in point Sandhu,and I for one will eat my hat if he becomes World or Olympic champion, though he most certainly has the goods to do so.

The cart is being put before the horse here. She has the goods, she lacks the track record. They question may not just be 'if' but 'when', however the question is also who else? Sasha by no means has the Olympic Champion 2006 title sewn up.

The way the commentators talk, I honestly thought she would beat Fumie regardless of the three falls. . .sort of like Petrenko in '92, she is just so far ahead artistically that she has a several mistake advantage. Maybe COP is changing this somewhat?

At any rate a lot of Sasha hype and all the Sasha goods does not a World, National or Olympic title equal.

loveskating

12-27-2003, 10:17 PM

Originally posted by Gaela
Sasha has, and has had, the goods to beat anyone in the world except perhaps Irina at her very best (or perhaps Naomi Nari Nam with a lutz at all).

Hmm. I don't agree. Not only Irina, don't forget Michelle, and I think FUMIE at her very best has the goods to beat a clean Sasha, and if Sokolova gained consistency, I think she could challenge her too--I think she might challenge MK as well, if she skated as well as she did at worlds last year but had more experience/performance ability under her belt. Given a bit of time, perhaps Kostner or the up and coming Japanese girl who was at Skate Canada (I forget her name because I mix them up--Nakano?) could to.

Yes, Sasha is an extremely talented young skater, in many ways the best of the field, but not in all ways. And 'having' the goods is one thing, but every acorn does not become an oak, case in point Sandhu,and I for one will eat my hat if he becomes World or Olympic champion, though he most certainly has the goods to do so.

The cart is being put before the horse here. She has the goods, she lacks the track record. They question may not just be 'if' but 'when', however the question is also who else? Sasha by no means has the Olympic Champion 2006 title sewn up.

The way the commentators talk, I honestly thought she would beat Fumie regardless of the three falls. . .sort of like Petrenko in '92, she is just so far ahead artistically that she has a several mistake advantage. Maybe COP is changing this somewhat?

At any rate a lot of Sasha hype and all the Sasha goods does not a World, National or Olympic title equal.

Sasha has the goods and she has a track record...I can recall when "hype" was used in connection with different terms for her...and the terms keep changing...now I'd say her track record is a lot like Paul Wylie's...not a bad place to be at all...and even if that is how it ends, which I doubt, IMHO Paul Wylie is a better skater overall than numerous Olympic champs are!

Get used to her...she is not going anywhere, unless she wants to, and I wouldn't blame her if she did...there are far better lives than the skating life.

Otherwise, she will always be there, infuriating Kwan's fans by her very existence, ROFL!!

loveskating

12-27-2003, 11:12 PM

Originally posted by Gaela
My little theory, for what it is worth, is that Kween/Kwandonna is continuting to compete BECAUSE of Sasha, who threatens to supplant her as the darling Princess of American skating. The commentators treat her as such already.

I was never a huge Kwandonna fan, but have been really impressed with her since Sasha came on the scene. Kwandonna is a class act all the way, and her skating is imbued with her maturity, something Sasha just doesn't yet have.

I expect Kween to go it again at Nationals, and wonder if she's going to make it eight world titles this year.

Hmmm. I think the commentators since Campbells have constantly referenced Kwan, who was not even there, she was at home practising for Nationals and Worlds! Even at Campbells, the news was that Sasha beat Kwan, not that Sasha won! And they constantly harp on Sasha's weaknesses! I don't think they hype her at all, to the contrary. My criteria for knowing someone is being HYPED is when they make a mistake and the commentators either do not mention it or make nothing of it...and EVERY mistake Sasha made, no matter how minor, was not only pointed out but was drawn to the "concentration" point again and again..harp, harp, harp!

Of course its not every skater who can refuse to compete, then have the commentators claim that her not being there lends no prestige to the winners of the competition! That little "have your cake and eat it too" jewel is strictly for Michelle Kwan and her fans to enjoy, I guess??? What's the news? Not that Sasha is winning, but that Kwan is practising! Whoop te dooo...and sheesh!

But do you think that such a motivation as you describe is the motivation of a "class act"? I'd say such a motivation would be pathetic and spiteful, downright Dorian Grey? More importantly, since someone, sooner or later, will "supplant her", I'd say such a motivation would be futile, LOL!

I seriously doubt if your theory is correct...the only thing that gives it any credence at all has been the constant harping on "silencing her critics" as if it were even possible for anyone not to have critics, much less to think it is possible to silence them!! Even God has critics, dontcha know! The only other thing that would indicate Kwan is a hard ball player is the infamous "bump" that was so patently and obviously nothing to anyone who knows the slightest thing about skating.

Kemy

12-27-2003, 11:29 PM

Originally posted by loveskating
The only other thing that would indicate Kwan is a hard ball player is the infamous "bump" that was so patently and obviously nothing to anyone who knows the slightest thing about skating.

If it was "nothing", then why do you keep bringing it up?

Anyways, Sasha doesn't need a psychologist. She's not falling because of nervousness, at least not anymore. She fell because she was worn down due to schedule and illness. She had a cold during Lalique and hadn't taken the time to recover from it. Other mistakes, like two-footing the flip at the end of the program, could be lack of concentration at that point of fatigue at the end of the program. I doubt she has all the issues that people like to assume that she has.

I bet that, when Sasha learns to peak at the right moment, she'll start dishing out the results that everyone expects from her. She's definitely learning this year, so hopefully we've yet to see the best from her.

loveskating

12-28-2003, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by Kemy
If it was "nothing", then why do you keep bringing it up?

The bump was nothing, as anyone who has had much to do with skating knows... and "It happens all the time" exactly as Sasha said in an interview at the Olympics; also, anyone who saw a real and serious bump like the one between B&S and S&P in a warm up at the Olympics(acknowledged by both teams to be totally accidental ...as the vast majority of bumps are) would have been highly suspicious of this miniscule and so-called "bump" allegedly inflicted on Kwan by a malicious or careless Sasha!!

What was made of the minescule bump was quite a lot...and I brought it up precisely for the reason I said I did...its an example of people around Michelle Kwan or she herself playing very, very hard ball with a competitor...she never, ever said that "It happens all the time" and she had plenty of opportunities, including specifically on the Leno show...so at the very least, she took advantage of what those around her had to say about it. That is not a "class act" to me...that is a hard ball player off the ice.

But you probably misunderstood the meaning of my post...I was defending Ms. Kwan against a post saying that she was staying in only to defeat Sasha...just as I defended Sasha against the claim that she is skating only to defeat Kwan.

I hope neither skater is that stupid or negative, since neither can control the skating of the other (although hardball tactics are designed to disorient and distract the competitor).

CarolA0923

12-28-2003, 02:19 PM

Sasha needs to win and then everyone would have to BE QUIET. Until then she is fair game as is everyone else.

I do think Michelle gets to her, but I don't think she is the only one. Sasha is LONG past the "I'm skating with Michelle" stage, but every year at Nationals you have a nice young skater in the final group who seems to suffer from that. You can see them in warm up (or practices), they keep looking over at her even if it is only out of the corner of thier eye. I can't blame them, I am sure Peggy Fleming and Dorthy Hammill did the same thing to some of thier competetion.

Michelle herself has what I would refer to as "freak out" moments at the Olys. In both of her appearences she made misstakes that appear to be due to pressure getting to her.

There are wonderful skaters who never put it together and other skaters who don't practice well and show up and just steal the whole show. Sometimes visulization helps, but sometimes.... (I think Weiss is a big believer in using a sports psychologist, but that guy can't land the quad for him!)

That's why they do the competitions. Otherwise they could just use the message board results.

apache88

12-28-2003, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by loveskating
The bump was nothing, as anyone who has had much to do with skating knows... and "It happens all the time" exactly as Sasha said in an interview at the Olympics; also, anyone who saw a real and serious bump like the one between B&S and S&P in a warm up at the Olympics(acknowledged by both teams to be totally accidental ...as the vast majority of bumps are) would have been highly suspicious of this miniscule and so-called "bump" allegedly inflicted on Kwan by a malicious or careless Sasha!!

What was made of the minescule bump was quite a lot...and I brought it up precisely for the reason I said I did...its an example of people around Michelle Kwan or she herself playing very, very hard ball with a competitor...she never, ever said that "It happens all the time" and she had plenty of opportunities, including specifically on the Leno show...so at the very least, she took advantage of what those around her had to say about it. That is not a "class act" to me...that is a hard ball player off the ice.

But you probably misunderstood the meaning of my post...I was defending Ms. Kwan against a post saying that she was staying in only to defeat Sasha...just as I defended Sasha against the claim that she is skating only to defeat Kwan.

I hope neither skater is that stupid or negative, since neither can control the skating of the other (although hardball tactics are designed to disorient and distract the competitor).

Loveskating, why wouldn't you give Michelle the benefit of the doubt the way you did Sasha. Are you any different from those Kwan fans who crucified Sasha due to the bumping incident? I need to tell you that it was upsetting for Michelle fans to read "off-ice viciousness" in one of your posts on a certain forum? Do you think it's fair of you to pass judgment or comment like that? Even here, you mentioned "..she took advantage of what those around...." as if you knew exactly what kind of person she is.

No one could assess the bumping situation any better than Michelle and Sasha themselves. I gave Sasha the benefit of the doubt. I certainly thought it was a pure accident. But on the other hand, I also thought at the time Michelle was thinking it was intentional on Sasha's part because she felt it, hence she didn't feel the need to say otherwise.I wouldn't have done it either if I were her. Bottom line, Michelle must have misread the situation although Sasha was innocent.

If we don't know any of them personally, it's best to be neutral and give each party the benefit of the doubt. It's very unfair to pass judgment bassed on our perception.

apache88

12-28-2003, 07:01 PM

Originally posted by loveskating
Sasha has, and has had, the goods to beat anyone in the world except perhaps Irina at her very best (or perhaps Naomi Nari Nam with a lutz at all). She has never been a conservative skater, who relies on others to make mistakes...she has always prepared winning programs.

Maybe that's the problem, eh? Maybe she is too honest and passionately devoted to the actual skating for the way things are at this time?

Sasha hasn't been real consistent on the jumps at times...neither was Paul Wylie, Janet Lynn or Ilia Kulik...big deal, they are still very great skaters.

Sasha is incredibly talented. She certainly has the goods to beat anyone. But this is a sport, a competition. That means having the goods is not enough, An athlete has to deliver. That's where mental strength comes in. In any sport, mental strength is 50% of the deal, even in as passive sports as golf and bowling. This is what champions have - talents and mental strength. That said, I'm defintely rooting for Michelle to win at Nationals and Worlds, but if she fails to do so, I'm praying Sasha will. Apparently, you are seeing the sport differently. I respect that.

apache88

12-28-2003, 07:10 PM

Originally posted by sachelle
is 100% confidence she can beat any skater in the world. People expect her to best Kwan at last, but Kwan is feared by many skaters as she is the best competitor out there. With solid technique.

Sasha needs a skating psychologist, and needs to picture her main rivals splatting. Visualization Sasha. Worked for 4 year old Sarah Hughes. She never doubted or feared herself competing against Kwan.

If Robin is really good at technique and pumping Sasha up to fight, maybe Sasha will win the majors. Better health to TT. She is some gal.

IMHO, picturing others splatting is not an effective way. The best way to compete is to focus on yourself, on what you can do. Imagine as if you were the only one competing. It worked for Michelle at 2000, 2001,2003 worlds. I don't think "pumping her up to fight" is what Sasha needs. She's defintely a very competitive athlete from what I have observed and read the past year.

Tapper

12-28-2003, 07:42 PM

Originally posted by loveskating
I don't think they hype her at all, to the contrary. My criteria for knowing someone is being HYPED is when they make a mistake and the commentators either do not mention it or make nothing of it...and EVERY mistake Sasha made, no matter how minor, was not only pointed out but was drawn to the "concentration" point again and again..harp, harp, harp!

What? :?: Hype is about getting a lot of publicity, it's the exact opposite of not saying anything! My take on it is that Sasha's been getting a lot of great coverage for her wins, and Dick and Peggy gush about her all the time! Come on now... Sasha gets a lot of hype everytime she skates. After taking three gold medals straight in the GP, and after a lot of hype, what do you expect the commentators to say when she suddenly fails to meet the expectations of all the hype... won every event and then doesn't win? Ignore the mistakes? She's gushed about when she wins and her mistakes are discussed when she loses. What's wrong with that? And, personally, I don't see what's so awful about the "concentration" point. When everything else about her skating is gushed over as being "the best in the world," and oh those "perfect, gorgeous positions" how else can they explain her puzzling mistakes? I would think you'd have reason to gripe if they failed to mention her extensions and positions etc. but they always comment on how exquisite she is, even when she blows it. And, well, she is exquisite and it is confounding when she goes under.
But Sasha gets a lot of great publicity... just compare the press about her with the press of any the other US ladies.

Originally posted by loveskating
...the only thing that gives it any credence at all has been the constant harping on "silencing her critics" as if it were even possible for anyone not to have critics, much less to think it is possible to silence them!! Even God has critics, dontcha know!

I probably am misunderstanding you here, but here goes. Are you suggesting that there is constant harping to silence Kwan's critics? Silencing Kwan's critics?! By whom? Aren't you criticizing the commentators who criticize Sasha by saying that they keep "harping" about her mistakes? And doesn't that imply that they sould be silenced? That's what your post sounds like to me... but maybe I misunderstand your intent. Certainly won't be the first time! :D

Cheezo flippo, this is beginning to sound like the outrage of the political right and left as they try to silence one another, by accusing the other of wanting to silence them. Madness! It's ALL madness! :lol:

Skatingsarah

12-28-2003, 07:44 PM

I agree with you apache88 the last thing Sasha needs is to focus on fighting. I think that is what brings he down because I have a feeling that is what she is doing now. It is totally alot of unecessarly pressure in my opinion. Sasha needs to calm down she knows she can do it she just has to find a spot in her mind where there is no one else as you said apache88. She needs to feel like the only person that can defeat her is herself. The reason why she has come 3rd or 2nd in the past competitions is because she let herself 'defeat' her. She needs to work together and believe in herself but make sure shes concentrated on the task at hand.

loveskating

12-29-2003, 03:45 AM

Originally posted by apache88
Sasha is incredibly talented. She certainly has the goods to beat anyone. But this is a sport, a competition. That means having the goods is not enough, An athlete has to deliver. That's where mental strength comes in. In any sport, mental strength is 50% of the deal, even in as passive sports as golf and bowling. This is what champions have - talents and mental strength. That said, I'm defintely rooting for Michelle to win at Nationals and Worlds, but if she fails to do so, I'm praying Sasha will. Apparently, you are seeing the sport differently. I respect that.

Yes, I see the sport differently...I recognize the truth of the fact that in competition, to win a medal, one has to be mentally tough and deliver then and there, but I also know that even in a splatfest, someone wins gold, silver and bronze. However, some of my favorite skaters are named Ilia Kulik and Paul Wylie...neither of whom have a lot of medals, so yes, I see the sport differently. Janet Lynn did not win a lot of medals, either; neither did Yuka Sato as an amateur. I also adore Alexander Abt, and he has not won a lot of medals, nor Takeshi Honda...I appreciate their accomplishments, neverthelesss.

I hope Sasha wins, because I think she is the best skater overall out there now, and I'm always pleased when the best skater wins...but I won't mind if Kwan wins, nor would same make me think any less of Sasha as a very great skater!

I don't ever pray to God for any skaters to win or lose, my prayers to God are either on my own behalf or for my family, and otherwise are for people in real trouble, who are truly suffering, like Daria and Katia when Sergei died or Scott Hamilton when he had cancer. I did pray for both Sale and Peltier and Bareshnaya and Sikharalidze for those horrible days during SLC when I feared one of those incredible and beautiful pairs teams would be humiliated and hurt. I do pray for people I know to be falsely accused, slandered or when someone consciously tries to ruin the reputation and life of an innocent person.

shadymc

12-29-2003, 01:57 PM

I can't believe we're still talking about this, but as long as it's been brought up.......I find it amusing that this is being played as a Michelle vs. Sasha issue...or that Michelle's "behavior" is in question. As I recall there were three skaters named as the alleged "victims" in this matter, Angela, Sarah and Michelle. However, Michelle is the one that Sasha fans point to that should have perhaps held a press conference to state Sasha's innocence or something? The point is that the only person who said anything suspicious was Sarah. When she came off the ice and was asked if Sasha had bumped her, she said "it was rough out there" and left it at that. Michelle made no such comments. As a matter of fact, I saw a televised interview where Michelle said, in Sasha's presence, that nothing happened and that the press coverage was ridiculous and off track. No such denials from either Sarah or Angela. However, as I said, this is something that a few Sasha fans find convenient to blame on Michelle.

lilwish

12-29-2003, 05:13 PM

is to relax. she has it all. she just needs to really enjoy herself out there. every time she allows herself to do that she does well.

BTW I am a huge Kwan fan and Sasha's "existence" not only does not bother me, I am a big fan.

Sometimes when the only tool you have is a hammer, all you see is a nail.

smallsilly

12-29-2003, 11:35 PM

Otherwise, she will always be there, infuriating Kwan's fans by her very existence, ROFL!!

Hmmm...so you are *that* type of fan? Why on earth would you think Sasha's existance Kwan's fans? Have you noticed that some "Kwan Fans" are also fans of Sasha? Have you ever thought Sasha infuriates fans in other ways? Such as not delivering when it counts? Falling all over the ice when we know how talented she is? I am tired of watching her on her butt I want her to skate clean and it infuriates me that Sasha cannot pull it together...it has nothing to do with the 5 time world champion 7 time national champion 2 time olympic medalest Michelle Kwan. ROTFLMAO at your comment

I wanted to edit this because "infuriate" is too strong of a word...its more like disappointment when she skates...you know "oh Sasha fell again" :cry:

sachelle

12-30-2003, 03:39 AM

than meets many eyes. Didn't expect a sasha/michelle, "who is better" discussion, but it appears inevitable. I am fans of them all and have seen Sasha Jenny and NNN and AP turn in performances that I would have judged differently, and Michelle would have medals, but not the gold. She was held up a few times when outskated. This didn't happen at oly's or 2002 world's as the scrutiny on the judges after pairsgate was very intense to score fair.

There is a lot one can say and it's been said, re: Kwan the skater, Kwan the Consistent Competitor, who rivals the sports best and Legendary names. When Michelle recently skated with the best skaters in the world they all had a meltdown. Except Michelle. Tho not perfect she won.

Peggy called it the "Legend of Kwan" and were we there we would all feel it strongly. Her track record is enough to unnerve the very best skaters. And she projects command, huge confidence and the audience helps her greatly. I hope other skaters will get a chance to begin to have half her medals.

If Michelle has a truly deserved win at the next two comps, then great. I would like to see a lot more fairness in the judging...it still isn't right. I can't believe the results of the ladies GP final. Didn't see the mens - Sandhu or Evgeny- the useless NS upgrade messed that up for me.

I hope Jenny wins some big comps so she'll have a career, Sasha with some bigger wins would be scooped up by SOI.

AS for Turino, I meant to say that 'take it one day at a time' Michelle won't go there to embarass hersef. If she is skating well, and getting the right medals, I suspect she'll try to make the team.

My prediction is the gold in 2006 will be won by a japanese teenager this time, Miko Ando, Yukina Ota, or someone I have yet to hear or see. I don't think our top ladies yet can take the pressure and I doubt Michelle's tech content can rival these girls a decade younger than her by 2006.

I'd hate to see Michelle there for a medal and skate like the boys of 94 reinstated or Todd/Elvis last year. I think Sasha maybe can take the pressure by then. She could medal, but she will be very pushed by the japanese ladies with jumps I think she won't master either. Jenny at least does her 3/3 and maybe can do another, but a quad, a 3 axel?

No one in Russia now looks like a winner. Irina, were she not so sick.... but I think she is done, sadly. Maybe the return of Hughes? I'd love it but doubt we'll see it.

Sasha arrived in 2000 with a silver at Nationals? I think she should have won gold back then.

danibellerika

12-31-2003, 03:07 AM

Originally posted by sachelle
My prediction is the gold in 2006 will be won by a japanese teenager this time, Miko Ando, Yukina Ota, or someone I have yet to hear or see. I don't think our top ladies yet can take the pressure and I doubt Michelle's tech content can rival these girls a decade younger than her by 2006.

I'd hate to see Michelle there for a medal and skate like the boys of 94 reinstated or Todd/Elvis last year. I think Sasha maybe can take the pressure by then. She could medal, but she will be very pushed by the japanese ladies with jumps I think she won't master either. Jenny at least does her 3/3 and maybe can do another, but a quad, a 3 axel?

Miki cheats her 4 sal am I wrong? And it's not like Sasha hasn't been working on her 4 sal either. I could be wrong, but Ota's not a queen at consistency either. Sasha as well as MK know they need the tech content, and I think that in enough time they'll be able to master what they may need to. I know Sasha hasn't stopped working on the quad or the other 3/3s. With some summer training we could very well see it next season, I dunno. She'll need it before '06 for sure. She's training a 3loop/3loop right now too. She's already landed a 3lutz/3toe. I think at Sasha's rate, she's going to have the tech content necessary. Staying on her feet...is another thing. Don't get me wrong, the Japanese ladies I predict will be favorites for sure, but I think Sasha and Michelle could still be too (Sasha more than Michelle though). They both have wonderful presentation and skating quality as well(though I'll definately admit Michelle just isn't my cup of tea). Experience could help, maybe but even that's not everything. If we see the CoP at the Olys, it could work even better for them. Also, Kostner. I see her as a favorite too, and she'll be home country girl so that support could make or break her. It's too soon I guess to make predictions, and I think we've learned that sometimes after the SPs at the Olys themselves, it's too soon to make final standings predictions because, well, anything can and does happen.

loveskating

12-31-2003, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by smallsilly
Hmmm...so you are *that* type of fan? Why on earth would you think Sasha's existance Kwan's fans? Have you noticed that some "Kwan Fans" are also fans of Sasha? Have you ever thought Sasha infuriates fans in other ways? Such as not delivering when it counts? Falling all over the ice when we know how talented she is? I am tired of watching her on her butt I want her to skate clean and it infuriates me that Sasha cannot pull it together...it has nothing to do with the 5 time world champion 7 time national champion 2 time olympic medalest Michelle Kwan. ROTFLMAO at your comment

I wanted to edit this because "infuriate" is too strong of a word...its more like disappointment when she skates...you know "oh Sasha fell again" :cry:

Oh, good GRIEF! That was a joke! Kwan is one of my all time favorite skaters -- despite the bumping incident bs which I deplored. I din't like Pavarotti's divorce, either, doesn't mean I don't love him overall! I thought he should retire before he did, so what? Doesn't mean I don't adore him to distraction! SHEESH!!!

Kwan's layback, for instance, is just not that great...by comparison...doesn't mean she does not deserve to win for OTHER reasons...but some of you don't know what they are, haven't got a clue, so you just lash out. Go study the rules; go look at elements where the standard has been set! You might find it more interesting than attacking everyone you perceive to be "anti-Kwan"!

It appears I am the subject of the latest Kwaniac fan gang attack with categorical statements, containing nothing but ridicule for what I mostly did not say in any case, some deamonization and total refusal to discuss the issues as to skating...fine, I'm out of this discussion...thankfully, all of MK's fans are not like you and the other gang bangers!

danibellerika

12-31-2003, 12:12 PM

Let's cut it out with the personal attacks everyone.

smallsilly

12-31-2003, 12:48 PM

Oh, good GRIEF! That was a joke! Kwan is one of my all time favorite skaters -- despite the bumping incident bs which I deplored. I din't like Pavarotti's divorce, either, doesn't mean I don't love him overall! I thought he should retire before he did, so what? Doesn't mean I don't adore him to distraction! SHEESH!!!

Well, you are the one that put ROTFL after your statement. To me, that does not mean you are joking, but more of a mockery...

:Kwan's layback, for instance, is just not that great...by comparison...doesn't mean she does not deserve to win for OTHER reasons...but some of you don't know what they are, haven't got a clue, so you just lash out. Go study the rules; go look at elements where the standard has been set! You might find it more interesting than attacking everyone you perceive to be "anti-Kwan"!

Nowhere in the post I was replying to was Michelle's layback a topic of conversation. So where was I lashing out regarding that type of issue? Where in my post can I not support my opinion that Michelle is the "best stater"? It is nowhere in my post because I was not responding to that particular topic. I didn't respond to your post because I think you are 'anti Kwan", I responded to the post because you stated Sasha's existance on the ice infuriates Kwan fans and then you proceeded to roll on the floor and laugh after you said it... probably in a Dr Evil type manner. It is not as if you said "Michelle has a bad layback" and I said "Michelle is the greatest skater ever, and your mama's so fat, when she wears a yellow rain coat kids think she is the school bus"!:lol: Now that would be lashing out without being able to produce facts as to why I think michelle has a better layback than Sasha. (Which in fact, is not my opinion)

It appears I am the subject of the latest Kwaniac fan gang attack with categorical statements, containing nothing but ridicule for what I mostly did not say in any case, some deamonization and total refusal to discuss the issues as to skating...fine, I'm out of this discussion...thankfully, all of MK's fans are not like you and the other gang bangers

A gang banger? I didn't know a debate with someone was considered "gang banging"? How come you can express your distaste for people's opinions/posts, but when I do it, I am called a gang banger, which is pretty gross in my opinion. It is sad you have to resorte to name calling. You should reread what you write, because everything you accuse "kwan fans" of doing, you do yourself.

????"some deamonization and total refusal to discuss the issues as to skating

Well...isn't calling someone a 'Gang Banger" deameaning and refusing to talk about skating? I do not like being accused of raping someone with a bunch of my friends just because you did not like my post :lol

If you have seen my posts on other forums, you would know I defend Sasha when necessary as well, since I am a fan of hers also. I am not a "kwanatic", I enjoy Sasha very much as well. But if I made a statement along the lines that Michelle's existance on the ice infuriates Sasha fans, I am sure you would have had something to say about it...am I not correct in this assumption?