In defense of the Mike Pike

[MQSeries]

Ok, I've been reading a lot of snickering about the Mike Pike and feel like I have to give the guy some slack and come to his defense about this move. People left and right are laughing at the move on the other board because they think it's something they can do. While I'm no fan of his skating, and I understand why people are laughing at Mike for naming the move after himself, I find it laughable that people think they can do the exact same move with the same finesse that he does it. I'm reading claims like "I'm 50 years old and I can do a Mike Pike" or "my daughter is 8 and just started skating and she can do a Mike Pike",... Oh really? The thigh of Mike's free leg is parallel to the thigh of his skating leg. He reaches for the free skate with his opposite hand and he lowers his torso so that his head is touching or almost touching his head. And his body doesn't waver left and right while he's in this cannonball position moving down the ice at a good flow. It requires flexibility and strenght to do it. So for those of you that snicker that you can do a Mike Pike, I would like to see you try it please. It's not the same as the basic shoot-the-duck that almost anyone at any skating level can do.

[Roma]

People really make fun of this? I never got the impression that Weiss thought he invented something major along the lines of the Biellmann spin. I thought it was a more light-hearted thing, in that he realized it was something minor, and a little interesting (especially as an entrance to his triple flip). I'm surprised that people make fun of it, I guess because I never got the impression that he thought he had just invented a new wheel.

I tend to like inventive moves, even if they are only slight variations of an old standard. Just makes things a little more interesting.

BTW I invented the less-well-known move the Roma Coma, in which I skate so slowly that it looks like I'm asleep.;)

[MQSeries]

People are making fun of the move, because they say that he simply took the basic shoot-the-duck position that everyone learned in like the Pre-Alpha stage and then named it after himself. While the name "Mike Pike" is cheesy and perhaps he should have just not named it anything, the move is a harder variation on the simple shoot-the-duck position that everyone is used to. Not anyone can just go out onto the ice and does it the way he does it. Most of the people who claim that the move is so easy that they can do it eventhough they're an adult skaters, or are beginner skaters, etc., are dillusional.

[Roma]

I'm actually agreeing with you here -- I was only surprised that people reacted so negatively to it. I might have missed something in which Weiss unveiled this as a major contribution to figure skating, but I had the impression that the 'Mike Pike' name was a light-hearted rhyme (and that if his name were Bill or Henry he never would have given the move a title).

And I agree that it looks quad-killing to do, rather than your basic move. Only mildly inventive, but yes, interesting and difficult.

[sk8er1964]

I actually like the move. It adds something to the program.

(BTW, I'm an adult skater working on my doubles who can't even do a shoot the duck - that basic move is not as easy as it looks! :D )

[JDC1]

Many advanced skaters can not do a low shoot the duck, particularly adults, it's REALLY hard on your knees and lower back if you work on it.

[icedancer2]

Count me in as another adult skater who used to skate as a kid who could not stay upright in any kind of shoot-the-duck -- used to love them but now -- ouch -- don't make me bend my knees quite that much!!

I like Mike. Some people just like to trash him and will find just about anything to do just that!!

[mousey]

ive always been a person who could scrunch up into a ball, do shoot the ducks etc... ive never tried the actual mike pike, but ill try next time i skate:P

[Azlynn]

Funny, I've seen quite a few skaters at my rink doing it in just that position... myself, 15 years ago when I skated as a child, I did the same. Full on all the way down duck with parallel leg, forwards and backwards. Can anyone do it? No. Is it really difficult for a younger skater with practise? Yes and no. It requires balance and strong quads.

It's dopey that he named it. That's where my scorn comes from. More power to him for doing it, but to call it a 'Mike Pike'... d'oh.

[MQSeries]

Originally posted by Azlynn
Funny, I've seen quite a few skaters at my rink doing it in just that position... myself, 15 years ago when I skated as a child, I did the same. Full on all the way down duck with parallel leg, forwards and backwards. Can anyone do it? No. Is it really difficult for a younger skater with practise? Yes and no. It requires balance and strong quads.

It's dopey that he named it. That's where my scorn comes from. More power to him for doing it, but to call it a 'Mike Pike'... d'oh.


Does their heads touch their free knees like in a cannonball position? In the basic shoot the duck position your free leg is parallel to the ice, not to the skating thigh, and you upper body is up, not touching the free knee with one hand extended touching the free toe. No instructor teaches the shoot-the-duck in the "Mike Pike" position, because it's impossible to ask someone learning to skate to hit that position. And even if you're an elite skater, you have to have a certain amount of flexibility to touch your head to you knee. Just try it off the ice and see how much strain it is on your back to if you're not flexible and strong. People are still confusing the basic shoot-the-duck with what Mike is doing.

[mousey]

actually do u kno wats pretty tough on the quads/knees? doing a shoot the duck (doesnt have to be a mike pike:P) then doing a spiral, without putting your free foot down. basically u glide on one foot, and dont switch as u go from down, to up, to down, to up, etc..... its good for balance!

[Isk8NYC]

As for vanity and ego, don't forget that many skating maneuvers are named after their "inventors." My favorite is the "Axel Paulsen." (sp?) The "Axel" stuck because the inventor didn't want to be confused with his brother!

Let Mike slide on this one. There are far more important issues to get worked up about. It's a cute name anyway.

[Show 42]

I too enjoy the skating of Michael Weiss. I used to be able to do a "shoot the duck" of sorts on roller skates, but not with figure skates, no way.

[winter]

The shoot the duck is not a new move. Elite level skater have been doing this move for a long time. In her amature days, Nancy K did a shoot the duck into a jump.

Dorothy Hamill did an excellant spin that was called the Hamill camel, Denise Beilman did a great spin that was called the Beilman spin. Brian Boitano did a wonderfull lutz that was called the Tano lutz. Unlike Michael Weiss, none of these skaters took it upon themselves to name their moves after themselves. It was others that named the moves after these skaters.

IMHO, I find Michael Weiss very arrogant and desperate to name a move that has been has been around for a long time and isn't a very difficult move for an elite level skater to do after himself.

[Schmeck]

The MikePike is not as difficult as some would like to make it sound, and it's easier for ladies (if they're flexible enough) because of the lower center of gravity that we are "blessed" with. My daughter's youth intro synchronized skating team had at least half the girls able to do the MikePike position for half the length of the ice. (hey, that sounds like a word problem for a math class...)

So, he named this himself? Tacky, Mike, very tacky... :roll:

[Aussie Willy]

It's Duck Season .... No it's Wabbit Season ..... No it's Duck Season!!

I am sorry but I think it is a really silly name (it sounds like a diving move), no matter what the difficulty (and yes I cannot do it myself) and by using the name he is leaving it open to ridicule. There is a 60 year old guy at my rink who can do that move and jump from feet to feet at the same time. I think that is pretty cool. But Mikey's move just does not impress me, along with some of the other moves in his choreography which I think does not suit him (like when he grabs his blade behind him - it is just not a good move for him). Having said that I do think he is a good skater and very polished.

[Alexa]

I think he did this because he isn't able to talk about his tornado during eligible season since it is not allowed, so it makes him feel better by naming a move he does in the eligible world :lol:

No, seriously I don't think it is necessary to name a move like that for himself. But it does not surprise me. Whenever you go to his website it is filled with Mike's overinflated ego. When he wins a competition there is a large glorious article about it. When he loses, there is an article about his placement and an explanation that he skated with the flu or something like that.

I just wish he would take that ego and turn it into some really good skating. He needs to let the skating speak for itself instead of trying to be part of a large publicity campaign.

I have noticed that many of the commentators at his events just do not care about him or his skating anymore. Maybe it is just me--but they seem less than interested in him when they talk about his presence in a competition.

I just wish he had more competition, because if this was a year with a better men's field he would not have a chance. He is only hanging in there because of the lack of good and consistent men skaters. Nationals will be difficult to bear because with Tim having skate problems, Michael has a good chance to win. Hopefully some of the other competitors will pull out some good performances this year. I don't mind if Mike wins because he does well and deserves it, but if it is a win because everyone including him does poorly it is a different story.

[2footedquad]

Although it could seem arrogant to name a move after yourself, I am willing to give this guy the benefit of the doubt that he wasn't trying to be conceited. And to me, the move looks hard.

But I have a question for MQSeries, why do you feel the need to, as you say, "come to his defense"? And why are your posts here so passionate? It's one thing if you want to offer an opinion that the move is harder than it looks, but to actually "defend" Michael Weiss? I don't get why your feelings are so strong, that is, why you sound so angry. This seems like a lightweight topic. And why do you feel the need to come to the defense of Michael Weiss, a man whom I presume you don't even know? If I were an elite skater, I wouldn't mind someone pointing out the strengths of my skating, but I wouldn't want someone I didn't even know coming to my "defense".

[winter]

Originally posted by 2footedquad
Although it could seem arrogant to name a move after yourself, I am willing to give this guy the benefit of the doubt that he wasn't trying to be conceited


And to me, the move looks hard.



Although Hamil, Beilman, & Boitano have had a move named after them, none of these skaters took it upon *themselves* to name it after them. This is where the Weiss arrogance factor comes in and the fact that the move itself (shoot the duck) has been around for a long time and is not very difficult move for most *junior* level skaters.

[MQSeries]

2footedquad,

Of course this is a light weight topic and so is every single other topic on this board or any other boards where anonymous people are posting their opinions, thoughts ... LOL, I never claim that this topic is life-altering. Only stating my opnion.

I'm not defening MW as a person. I'm pretty sure he could could care dittly squat what MQSeries or any other no-face poster has to say about him, nice or otherwise. Heck, I don't even like his skating and always root against him in competition. But I can still appreciate what any skater can do out there, because I used to skate myself.

I'm not passionate or angry about any skating move, lol. I just find it highly comical, even bordering on arrogance, for a skating fan that sits in an arena or at home, looked at the "Mike Pike" and say to herself something like, "Geez, I can do that move. It's a freaking shoot-the-duck that everyone learns in basic skating." I have a feeling that some people who have replied to this topic is still treating the basic STD as the same position as what Mike is doing, because they're still claiming that it's not hard and they see it performed often. Of cousre he's doing a variation of the STD, but it's not the basic STD image that everyone has in her head. Look, if the cannonball spin position is so easy to achieved, don't you think you would see skaters left and right, regardless of level, performing them instead of the standard sit spin? I can do a full split and still find it hard to maintain the Mike's position off-ice while holding onto something much less on the ice while traveling at a decent flow. I just got annoyed from reading some really unflattering stuff about this move on the other board (which I don't have permission to post there, otherwise I would). Criticize the Mike Pike because it's a dumb name or because it's a stupid position or whatever, but don't claim that it's something you can do yourself when I'm pretty confidant 99% of the time that the poster claiming that cannot do it. I guess I'm always annoyed at arm-chair quarterback, so to speak, but that's my hang-up :D

[2footedquad]

MQSeries, I know what you mean about people thinking they can do things. Hockey skaters do - ahem - 'spirals' all the time, with their droopy leg dangling 1 foot above the ice.

I was just wondering because you seemed a bit :x :x :x, considering this is one of the more lightweight topics on here.

[Azlynn]

Originally posted by MQSeries
Does their heads touch their free knees like in a cannonball position? In the basic shoot the duck position your free leg is parallel to the ice, not to the skating thigh, and you upper body is up, not touching the free knee with one hand extended touching the free toe. No instructor teaches the shoot-the-duck in the "Mike Pike" position, because it's impossible to ask someone learning to skate to hit that position. And even if you're an elite skater, you have to have a certain amount of flexibility to touch your head to you knee. Just try it off the ice and see how much strain it is on your back to if you're not flexible and strong. People are still confusing the basic shoot-the-duck with what Mike is doing.

As I said, can't hit that position myself at the moment. Could I previously? Yes. Shoot the Duck variations and low sit spins (with varying back positions) were the one thing I could do well, particularly with my young, flexible body. ;) Now? Not likely. Ahh, to have my old legs back. ;) It just isn't anything particularly brilliant, IMHO. Certainly not worth naming yourself.

Is my opinion of it coloured by the things coming out of his mouth and on his website? Absolutely. I also giggle every time they call it a 'Mike Pike' on tv and Dick or others snicker.

Is it dead easy? No. Is it as special as he makes it out to be? No.

[Roma]

Originally posted by Azlynn

Is it dead easy? No. Is it as special as he makes it out to be? No.

Perfectly stated. Ahh, if I had only been that concise in my post.