Children and skating??????

[iskater13]

I have skated for over thirty years now, but do not know what age is appropriate to start a child skating.
My baby is seven months old and is walking and puts his arms out for balance, I think I will try him on skates this month. I know they have the little walkers for the babies (on the ice) but is there any other suggestions, or what type of skates and how big should I get them(especially since he is a growing boy)

LOOK OUT..........JACK WILL BE ENTERING THE BUILDING! lol:) :)

[plinko]

IMHO the appropriate age to start skating is one where the child can fall down constantly and not lie on the ice crying and needing mommy. That they need to be old enough to learn that ice is fun and it is possible to slide for fun, fall down for fun and skate for fun.

[sk8er1964]

I started my son at 3 1/2. Five years later he is the best skater on his hockey team (proud momma moment :)).

One of the coaches at Learn-to-Skate said that if they are too little, they won't understand what you want them to do and may become frightened.

[blue111moon]

The minimum age for most of the Learn-to-Skate programs around me is 4. In teaching tots, I've found that while most 4 year olds are ready to learn to skate, there are some who just don't have the attention span, physical coordination or maturity of interest and need to wait a year or so to be successful. The rink runs a Tiny Tots program for 2 and 3 year olds but I understand that very little teaching of skating skills goes on; it's mostly just a play session on ice for the kids. Being toilet =trained is a must, though.

Personally, I think seven months is way too young to think about skates. Babies have enough to learn just walking and talking.

[skatepixie]

IMO, they should be able to walk off ice.

Our learn-to-skate has a "pixie" division for those 2-5 and then childerns for 6-11 and 12-17 in juniors amd finally 18+ for adults. The pixies all seem to do well.

[Isk8NYC]

Just for fun? Put a helmet, gloves, and some ski clothes on and let your kid slide around in sneakers on a puddle in the backyard. Hold him up (he's walking at seven months -- how wonderful!) and enjoy the quality time. (This only works if you live in a place that actually gets cold enough to freeze water.)

If you have to (or want to) go the rink, use the same outfit (helmet gloves, and padded clothes) and just go to a QUIET public session for 15 minutes of fun. (Mornings are great -- crowds and noise rattle many kids' cages.) Hang onto him -- I don't think the walker will keep him from falling. A fall or too long on the ice may turn him off to skating. When he's done, he's done.

Don't even think about group lessons until he's much older. "Listen to what I say, not what I did." -- Enough said --

Good luck!

[x_peacegirl_x]

seven months seems a bit early don't you think? i started skating when i was two.

[pinkjellybean]

We've taken coaches kids onto the ice when they were less than a year old, in teeny figure skates... but it was just meant as fun... we held them under the shoulders... and if you lift one shoulder up at a time you can get them to sort of walk/push, it's too cute.

We only did this once in a while and wouldn't expect them to skate or fool around on the ice (crawling etc) until they were two or three depending on their development... they should be wearing shoes regularly before you put skates on them and on our pre-school sessions (pre badges) the kids can walk before they start these sessions.

[BABYSKATES]

How cute to have a 7 month old walker! You just might have a future athlete on your hands.

I think 7 months old is way too young. Even when a very competent skater is taking the baby out on the ice, there is the risk of that skater falling and injuring the baby. Your baby is obviously coordinated enough to walk at an early age but is basically defenseless still. Some years ago, I saw a dad playing with his baby on the ice. He took one of those odd kind of falls that he didn't expect and baby's head smacked the ice. The baby was injured but I don't know how badly. A lot of people were trying to help the panic stricken father and his baby who was sickeningly quiet until the paramedics got to the rink and took them both away. I'll never forget that.

Sorry to be a wet blanket.

[butterfly]

My question is why would you put a 7 month old in skates? Don't count on that making for a future champion. My child walked at 8 months but I don't recall that she was ready for little blades and a slippery surface to cope with.

Let your child explore his world before you start pushing for performance in a very scary world. Also, there is great danger that a head injury could occur even with safety gear.

Let your child have fun and develop his own special challenges. If you push for performance and too much challenge at an early age you will be regretful. My suggestion is that you challenge yourself to learn a triple jump and if your child sees you doing that they may consider skating fun.

[Skatewind]

Check with your pediatrician & some developmental books before making a final decision. I can't imagine putting a 7 month old out there. Do they even have skates for babies that age? At rinks in my area, they can't go on the ice if they aren't wearing skates.

[WeBeEducated]

7 months?
Definately not.
Too cold
Too hard
Too restrictive
Too young

[flippet]

Originally posted by Isk8NYC
If you have to (or want to) go the rink, use the same outfit (helmet gloves, and padded clothes) and just go to a QUIET public session for 15 minutes of fun. (Mornings are great -- crowds and noise rattle many kids' cages.) Hang onto him -- I don't think the walker will keep him from falling. A fall or too long on the ice may turn him off to skating. When he's done, he's done.

I think that anything more than this at this age is FAR too much. At seven months, the idea is to say, 'hey, this is ice, it's slippery, you can slide on it, isn't it fun?' and not more than that. I think actually getting real skates is a bit premature, since they'll be outgrown in a flash, long before your child will even begin to get the hang of how to use them. I think skates would just frustrate a new walker. I know my 6 month old hates to even have shoes on his feet--he'd just scream with skates. I know how tempting it is to want to get them out there...hubby and I love skating too, and want our child to love it as well, but too early is too early, and would probably backfire.

I also totally agree with the posts about danger...if you do take a baby on to the ice, never, never, never carry them--even if you're a good skater, it's just too risky. Someone else could hit you, or you could meet up with one of those freak falls. If you just can't wait, make sure the baby's feet or well-insulated bottom are on the ice at all times, and that there's either a helmet or lots and lots of padded headwear on, and don't take your hands off the child. A fall could mean not only injury, but instill fear of the ice and skating, and that's the last thing you want.

[Justine_R]

I would just take him to the family skate for now until he is a bit older.
Then i suggest putting him in the preschool session.

[Schmeck]

How about waiting until the child can actually say "Mommy, I'd like to go skate?"

[pinkjellybean]

Originally posted by Justine_R
I would just take him to the family skate for now until he is a bit older.
Then i suggest putting him in the preschool session.

I wouldn't even taking him on the ice at all now... when I posted before about taking children on the ice below the age of 1 I meant just below... and they've all been able to walk on their own... but they were never carried on the ice nor were they taken on the ice when anyone else was on the ice... we normally got them on the ice a the end of a session and held onto them the whole time... they probably spent less than 10 minutes on the ice total and always wore helmets... this happened maybe three times between like 10 or 11 monthes and when they turned 2.... I think 2 and a half is ok to start a kid on the ice for a little bit at a time as long as you are with them, holding them the whole time and not expecting them to skate, our preschoolers basically crawl around and get to know what it's like being on the ice. At that, I know my mom wouldn't let me on the ice that young, she would have been too worried about head injuries.

I would wait until the *very* least 2 to start getting anyone on the ice but even then it's a personaly call.

[mousey]

i wouldnt enroll him in a lesson session, but go ahead and take him to the rink and teach him yourself!! i teach canskate, and right now im working with a 4-5 year old. they can barely understand me, if they do at all, so for lessons, i wouldnt bother until they can actually understand someone else talking to them other than their parents.

at canadian tire i saw bob skates (strap on skates that have two blades, instead of one). those could be a useful stepping stone if you're going to take your baby skating!

[jp1andOnly]

Preschool at our rink starts at 2. A couple children under two (about 6 months shy)were enrolled and they didn't have the muscle strength in their legs to hold them up. They basically spent the year crawling on the ice.

[Roma]

Originally posted by BABYSKATES
How cute to have a 7 month old walker! You just might have a future athlete on your hands.


Not really. Studies have shown that there is very little correlation between the rate of infant development (either physical or mental) and later success. Babies who crawl, walk, or speak earlier than the average are no more athletic or intelligent than other children in the long run.

As far as thinking about putting a 7 month child on the ice, I think it is an extremely bad idea. Frankly, I find the prospect frightening.

[SkateGuard]

If you are determined to do it, please do it on a weekday public (open) skate when the kids are in school. A 7-mo old will be terrified with all the big kids, loud music, and at some rinks, disco balls on a Saturday or Sunday open skate.

In my 4+ years as a public skate guard, the youngest I have heard is about 16-18 months. When a parent tries to drag an under-2 skater out on the ice, the kid ends up in tears within seconds. And on several occasions, the parents insist on having the screaming, terrified child continue skating. Ugh.

Personally, I think an infant has enough to learn without adding skating. I'm not a big fan of any organized activities for babies--let them focus on walking, talking, and other developmentally appropriate skills.

By the way, Snowplow Sam (the USFSA Basic Skills program) starts at 3.

Erin
(who is sick and tired of explaining to non-skating parents why it isn't a good idea to carry their children, especially when they're crying after a fall. ...shuddering at image of big dad tottering on rental hockey skates as he picks up a crying 4 y.o... And yet, these parents know more than me! :roll: )

[iskater13]

thanks for all the great advice....I was going to take him to an open session in the mornings when no one is hardly there. I have a fisher price helmet and have not bought all the other pads....I was thinking of waiting until he is one year........at christmas he will be 8 1/2 months. I would never send him out there on his own or let go of him. I do not know if this would lead to a future champion (no one can tell that) but we will see. I thought this would be a nice outlet for jack to burn off some energy and I could teach him with all my experience. I know it is not time for him to go to detroit skating club and start taking lessons from bowman the showman (he is a good coach)! anyways, thanks for all the good advice!:)

[Skatewind]

Originally posted by SkateGuard
If you are determined to do it, please do it on a weekday public (open) skate when the kids are in school.
Babies without skates would not be allowed at rinks in my area on the public sessions. And it would probably only be approved for a private rental if the parent(s) signed a waiver for everyone involved. iskater13's rink must not have the same level of concern about the liability issues involved. It's not only that something could happen to the baby. The rink could be considered negligent in the event of any injuries to other skaters if they happened due to having the baby on the ice.

[butterfly]

Originally posted by iskater13
thanks for all the great advice....I was going to take him to an open session in the mornings when no one is hardly there. I have a fisher price helmet and have not bought all the other pads....I was thinking of waiting until he is one year........at christmas he will be 8 1/2 months. I would never send him out there on his own or let go of him. I do not know if this would lead to a future champion (no one can tell that) but we will see. I thought this would be a nice outlet for jack to burn off some energy and I could teach him with all my experience. I know it is not time for him to go to detroit skating club and start taking lessons from bowman the showman (he is a good coach)! anyways, thanks for all the good advice!:) You are looking for ways for Jack to burn off energy and you are thinking of taking Jack, a 7 1/2 month old onto the ice in skates? Children naturally find ways to "burn off energy". They do not need adults to look for ways for them to do what comes naturally. And I am sorry but a Fisher Price helmet will not protect this baby and I emphasize the word "baby". If you have been skating for 30 years, and you really believe that you can put a baby on the ice safely you need some serious counseling. You state that you would never send him out on the ice alone duh!!! He would be laying on the ice not skating around or pushing any device around. You say you will wait until this baby is 1 year old....so now I am beginning to think that you are pulling our leg on this one. Skating parents have the reputation of being a little over the top but you take the prize. I hope the rinks all over the country step in and protect children this young. BTW, if you want Jack to "burn off energy" put him in the middle of the floor with a lot of colorful toys all around and watch the energy burn.

[Skatewind]

butterfly, I have to admit I also wondered whether this was actually a serious topic when I first read it too. But I have actually seen skating coaches, aka professionals, push their babies onto the ice in strollers while they teach lessons during freestyle sessions. And then :roll: when the rink manager forbids them to do it because they claim they don't understand WHY it isn't allowed. It does make you wonder though...

[Candleonwater]

Be careful what you wish for! I put my daughter in lessons at 3... as an outlet for her excess energy, and to get her on skates so she could eventually play hockey! Now, she's 7, skates 4 days a week (figure skating), and still has SO much energy she drives me nuts!

[icenut84]

Originally posted by iskater13
I do not know if this would lead to a future champion (no one can tell that) but we will see. I thought this would be a nice outlet for jack to burn off some energy and I could teach him with all my experience.

2 things:

At only 7.5 months, how can you possibly be thinking of him being a future champion??? Don't you think that's a bit premature? Plus, it's not like you have to start skating that young to be successful, Sasha Cohen was 7 years old wasn't she?

Taking him to an ice rink will not let him burn off energy. Nobody burns off much energy before they become competent skaters, they're too busy trying to stay upright to actually move, and this would be even moreso with a young child.

IMO, you should definitely wait until he's at least 2 years old before you put him in skates. The first couple of years of a child's life have more development than any other time of their lives, he's got enough to cope with without trying to learn how to stay upright with blades on his feet on a slippery surface too.

Let him be a kid first.

[BABYSKATES]

Originally posted by Roma
Not really. Studies have shown that there is very little correlation between the rate of infant development (either physical or mental) and later success. Babies who crawl, walk, or speak earlier than the average are no more athletic or intelligent than other children in the long run.

My unscientific statement was based on my own experience. My child walked at 8 months old and had an axel by the time she was 6. Many skaters and other athletes that I know showed early signs of being highly coordinated by doing things such as walking at an early age. I haven't conducted any surveys or read any studies. My intent was not to make a controversial statement but to encourage this parent to wait on skating with such a young child. I believe if the ability is there now, it will still be there when it is a more appropriate time in this baby's life. My daughter did ask to skate at 4 1/2 years old. There was never a tear or a fear of the ice. My early walker did become an athlete. If things are done at an appropriate time, this parent MIGHT have an athlete on their hands, too.

[iskater13]

I am not thinking about jack being a future champion, just happy.
I have not yet set in stone what day he will be going to the ice to skate, I was asking for input from other people with experience.
All in all, the only thing I think about all of this right now is that he may want to play hockey not figure skate, or he may want to do something totally different for that matter. I just want to provide him with all the opportunities to try a little bit of everything.
He may decide which sport he would like to go for. Thanks everyone for all the good advice:0)

[Roma]

Originally posted by BABYSKATES
My unscientific statement was based on my own experience. My child walked at 8 months old and had an axel by the time she was 6. Many skaters and other athletes that I know showed early signs of being highly coordinated by doing things such as walking at an early age. I haven't conducted any surveys or read any studies. My intent was not to make a controversial statement but to encourage this parent to wait on skating with such a young child. I believe if the ability is there now, it will still be there when it is a more appropriate time in this baby's life. My daughter did ask to skate at 4 1/2 years old. There was never a tear or a fear of the ice. My early walker did become an athlete. If things are done at an appropriate time, this parent MIGHT have an athlete on their hands, too.

Babyskates, I am not sure if you are disagreeing with me a lot or a little, so perhaps if I explain a little more about WHY I said what I said, my purpose here will be clearer.

My response about little correlation was based in response to 1 thing that concerns me, and 1 things that puzzles me. The first is parents who push their kids too hard and too early to do things (the concern) and parents who seem to take to use early success (in walking/talking, whatever) as an opportunity to demonstrate how superior their child is.

I know nothing about ISKATER13, and I sure don't want to presume to read the mind of a total stranger, but I had my doubts when reading this thread if the thread were not started simply as a vehicle to brag about the child's walking at 7 months, disguised in a question.

Therefore, I discussed the lack of correlation. (The works I read were exploring racial prejudice based on early childhood development, a side academic interest of mine.)

Anyway, because the lack of correlation has been demonstrated, I offered it into the discussion as a caution against 1.) pushing a child too early to realize the 'potential' demonstrated by early walking (something that concerns me) and 2.) If it is the case (which it certainly may not be) to cut down on parental bragging thinly disguised as a question (which merely annoys me).

The FAR more important of the two is my concern about this child getting on skates WAY too early. And that was the ultimate motivator for me to responsd. If I suspected this thread was started for nothing more than mere bragging, I would not have bothered responding, and simply moved on to a different thread.

[Roma]

Just as a matter of academic integrity, I want to clarify something that I may have over-simplified. In the studies I read, not only did the early infant developers not outperform the average and late developers as adults, in some cases, the most successful adults were those who developed the SLOWEST as infants. (Thus there is some correlation, it's just that it is the opposite of what most people would predict.) Evidently, the infants who developed more slowly than others were in the process of developing more complex abilities, thus their slower infant development resulted in greater abilities as adults.


(And as always, no single study or group of studies is conclusive, however, they do supply a strong argument against the notion that early walkers are showing unusual potential and should enter athletics at an earlier schedule than other children.)

[BABYSKATES]

Originally posted by Roma Babyskates, I am not sure if you are disagreeing with me a lot or a little,

;) The answer is: Neither! Not knowing the majority of the posters on this board, I never presume to know anything about the motivation of anyone. I try only respond to what is posted. My child has been in this sport for a long time now. Lots of people have given me good advice and helped me avoid mistakes through the years. If I think I have something that might be helpful to say, I say it. This person asked about taking a baby on to the ice. I think it is a bad idea, so I said so. This child might become an athlete, especially if they continue on the path of being physically well coordinated and strong. That has been my experience with my own child. I have no evidence other than my experience to back up my statement. I certainly can't say that this baby will be an athlete. Your comments on my post left me feeling that I needed to clarify that. That's all.

I am neither disagreeing nor am I agreeing with you, and I am also not judging the values of Iskater13. As far as I'm concerned, this person just asked a question I had an opinion on.

[iskater13]

If I suspected this thread was started for nothing more than mere bragging, I would not have bothered responding, and simply moved on to a different thread.....

I am not bragging nor do I care for your sense of putting me down in your responses. I used to really like this forum, however it appears that the air feels quite like the USFSA board. I am going to just look at posts for now on and not bother with asking any questions. I see you look at your glass as half empty.

[Justine_R]

Guys calm down..iskater13 i dont think this is a bragging forum and how are they ofending you?
Dont overeact.

[Roma]

Originally posted by iskater13

I am not bragging nor do I care for your sense of putting me down in your responses. I used to really like this forum, however it appears that the air feels quite like the USFSA board. I am going to just look at posts for now on and not bother with asking any questions. I see you look at your glass as half empty.

ISKATER13 - When I wrote the response about possible bragging, I stated that I didn't presume to read your mind. And I still don't. I thought there was a possibility that this was a motivation, but I definitely did not jump to that conclusion. And now that you've clarified that, all the better.

I usually give others the benefit of the doubt on this board, and hope you'll do the same. Not only do we posters not know each other, but we also don't have the benefit of tone of voice, facial expression, etc., (or understanding anything about each other's personality, history, etc.) with which to understand each others' posts. Consequently, our posts can get interpreted far more harshly than we ever intended. That sure seems to be the case here. I really do think that putting this child on skates is a very risky thing, and I said so, but only because you asked.

Just a little about me: I definitely do not look at the glass as half empty, and I have no intention of offending anyone on this board. I think this is a very nice board. But you have to realize that you raised one of the more controversial topics I've seen in a while, and many of the responses here (including mine) were much more direct and less circumspect than I've ever seen before.

Anyway, I do hope that you will continue to post here. 99% of the people here are nice, and I include myself in that majority.

[Skatewind]

I think a lot of people are very :??:??:?? about the motivations & rationale for putting a baby this age on the ice. I know I am.

[Justine_R]

I think this thread should be closed. Its getting i a bit too "rowdy" and someone is gonna end up losing.

[butterfly]

Originally posted by Justine_R
I think this thread should be closed. Its getting i a bit too "rowdy" and someone is gonna end up losing. I have had my say on this thread, but I disagree with your statement. If we call trying to discuss the welfare of children "rowdy" and close every thread that brings thought provoking discussion you might as well shut down the whole chat room. The only person that will lose if we don't allow discussions such as this is this 7 1/2 month old little boy. Yes, there will always be the few that get off track and say more than they should, but if we can put up with how Sasha Cohen's costume offends some people we can certainly allow discussion regarding a child's welfare and skating. After all this mother asked for advice and I am happy she did.

[Skatewind]

I agree things like this are important to discuss. There are many parents who truly believe the earlier they start a child on skates, the greater their chances to become a high achieving skater. However, all one has to do is check the skating history of current & former world class skaters to find out this is inaccurate.

Skating isn't the only place where some parents want to create the wonder kid at any cost. For example, in ballet there are always the parents who want their children on pointe at a very young age, even though medical studies, doctors, & dancers & teachers held in the highest esteem say it's physically & developmentally inappropriate & can cause permanent damage.

I suggested checking with a pediatrician or developmental books because I can't imagine there's actually one out there who would recommend skating as an activity for a baby who has just learned to stand & walk, especially if they have general knowledge of the skating environment (public sessions, etc). Checking a professional source is always a better option than taking anyone's word for it on a message board.

[dbny]

Originally posted by Skatewind
There are many parents who truly believe the earlier they start a child on skates, the greater their chances to become a high achieving skater.

Skating isn't the only place where some parents want to create the wonder kid at any cost.

It is not at all clear to me that this is iskater13's goal. It seems to me that she was just looking at skating as another possible activity for her physically precocious child. She asked precisely because she did not know if putting such a young child on skates would be a good or possibly bad thing to do! IMO, some posters were so upset at the very idea, that they got a little overzealous in protesting it.

My own take on it is that in general it's better to wait for a child to ask or show some interest in a sport before starting it and that the very earliest one should consider putting a tot on skates is 18 months, with the goal of letting the child explore a new environment. This means letting the baby sit on the ice for long periods of time, crawl around on it, hold him/her up while attempting to stand etc, and being prepared to leave whenever the tot has had enough. Obviously, this is not something that can be done at the usual public session.

Originally posted by iskater13
I could teach him with all my experience.
Unless your experience is with tots on the ice, it will not be very useful. Even 2 and 3 year olds do not benefit from what we commonly regard as "teaching" when on the ice. The single best technique I have found in teaching toddlers is to make them laugh!

I do hope you hold off for at least 7 or 8 months, and then go very slow and easy. Whatever you decide, I hope you and Jack have fun on the ice toghether.

[Skatewind]

Originally posted by dbny
It is not at all clear to me that this is iskater13's goal.
I did not say it was iskater13's goal. I said it is important to discuss it because there are a lot of parents who are misinformed about things like this & do it for the wrong reasons. I personally experience them quite frequently at the rink. Once again, I would strongly suggest books or other research about early childhood development.

[Clarice]

I agree that 7 months is way too young to start a baby skating. But I don't necessarily object to very young children on the ice if skating is something a parent does regularly and is merely including the child in a usual family activity, especially if the child has showed some indication that they want to be included. I'm a professional musician, and started Oldest Son on the violin when he was 2 years old. I certainly had no intention of creating a future prodigy. He was already conducting or playing toy instruments whenever he heard music on the stereo or TV or when I practiced, so it was very natural for him to have a "real" instrument of his own. We used the Suzuki approach, in which very young children learn music by imitating their parents, just like they learn to speak. I see no reason why skating couldn't be approached the same way. (He did turn out to be a music major, but that was entirely his decision, and would have happened even if he had started playing much later.) I do admit, however, that the parent's attitude is critical. (There are plenty of pushy Suzuki parents, too!) The idea is that the activity is something fun you can do together, not that you're trying to create a future star. The whole process definitely needs to be tailored to the child's developmental level, as far as motor skills, attention span, etc.

[batikat]

Several skaters I know have had babies including various coaches. In general the rule seemed to be that the kids were not put on the ice unless and until they showed some desire to do so. One skating mother regularly brought her young son in the pushchair and he would happily watch the skaters but was at least 3 if not 4 before he expressed any desire to go on the ice himself. One of the coaches took their daughter on the ice when she was 1 but for very short periods of time and he held her up the whole time (this kid spent all her young life at the rink being looked after by various mothers while the parent was coaching so it's not surprising she was keen to get on the ice!). Another coaches daughter was nearly 3 before she went on the ice.

At my rink kids have to be 5 before they can attend group lessons apart from a Mothers & Toddlers group which takes kids with their parent from 3yrs. Some kids do take private lessons at an earlier age but in my experience it is a complete waste of money at that age. I've watched a lot of kids over the years and I've seen kids that started on ice at 3, being overtaken in skills by kids that started at 6 or 7. It does seem that until the age of at least 6, the kids simply don't have enough strength, co-ordination, concentration etc to make a great deal of progress in formal ice skating skills. Around the age of 6- 8 they can suddenly take off because they are able to concentrate, practice and understand what's required. So you can take your child at 3 or younger and spend 3 or more years watching the kid have fun on the ice (and vast sums of money slipping(!) away). Or you can take them at 6 when they can quickly understand and learn the basic skills. By the age of 8 I see little difference between the two and often the later starters progress faster because they have chosen to be there rather than it being just another activity. My coach did not start skating until the age of 9 and he went to the Olympics so the age at which a child starts seems to have little impact on what they can achieve.

I have seen a baby taken on the ice in a pushchair but it was a heck of an annoyance for the other skaters and I couldn't see the point. What I really hate to see is a small child being carried in the arms of a skating parent. No matter how good a skater there is always the possibility of one of those stupid falls (and we've all had them I'm sure where one moment you are standing there and the next moment you are on the floor and you don't know why!!!) or of someone else accidentally running into you and causing a fall. My kids do pairs so I am particularly aware of the problems inherent in one skater carrying another on ice!!! It's just not worth the risk with a kid.

I'd admit my first reaction on reading the initial question was "What - is this person crazy!" - no offence!! :) On reflection I would say why not take your son along while you skate. Let him sit in a pushchair and watch (if you can find a real quiet session)or have a friend hold onto him off the ice. He may hate the whole atmosphere of an ice rink in which case you've got your answer - he's much too young and try again in a few months. If he shows interest in following you (and it doesnt' seem like it's just that he wants to be with you as opposed to being interested in the ice) then maybe there's some point in taking him on the ice - if it's allowed by the rink - but I can't imagine there being much point in getting actual skates for him - if anyone even makes them that small. There's a huge difference between being able to walk and being able to balance on skates - even the double bladed type. You'd also have to not mind skating in extremely small doses - at that age 10 mins is probably more than enough.

Personally I wouldn't take a child to a rink under the age of 3 and even then you have to be so careful that they are neither in any danger themselves nor posing a danger to others. Under 3 years it seems like an awful lot more trouble than it's worth but I'd be interested in hearing what you decide to do and how it goes if you do decide to take him along.

[CanAmSk8ter]

As a coach who's taught tots quite a bit, I just wanted to mention that double runner skates are generally worthless. No support, and no edges- literally. The blades are rounded the other way, so they tend to just slip and slide around under the child. I tell parents that if the kid's feet are so small that they can't find regular skates for him or her, the kid is too young/small to be on the ice. I've seen single-bladed skates as small as a toddler six, although that was in a skating catalog. My old rink had rentals that small, but my current rink only goes down to a nine.

[Justine_R]

Ok well,
If discussing a childs welfare which means shouting about it then im stupid because if you really wanted to help this little boy u wouldnt fight over these little arguments.

[butterfly]

Originally posted by Justine_R
Ok well,
If discussing a childs welfare which means shouting about it then im stupid because if you really wanted to help this little boy u wouldnt fight over these little arguments. Excuse me I don't understand. Who is shouting? An excellent discussion has taken place regarding what age is best for a child to be allowed to begin skating. I believe that many people have offered good and varied advice. Choose another thread if this challenges you too much.

[Justine_R]

Originally posted by butterfly
Excuse me I don't understand. Who is shouting? An excellent discussion has taken place regarding what age is best for a child to be allowed to begin skating. I believe that many people have offered good and varied advice. Choose another thread if this challenges you too much.

Are you impling that I am stupid?
This thread is not too challenging for me actually and as u say i am offering "good and varied advice".
If you did actually read the other replies to this topic you can see that they had a little "tiff"as some people will call it.


The lady who posted this thread asked for some advice and she is getting some right now.Your advice is your advice itsa simple as that.
No point arguing.

[mumof2]

I have two children, a 4 year old and a two year old. The two year old is on bob skates right now and loving it. At the rink nearby, they have a Mom and tots skate every week that is free. There aren't too many people around and although he is not a stellar skater yet, he is getting used to the ice. He only lasts for about 15 minutes and then he is asking for hot chocolate.

My daughter (the 4 yr. old) on the other hand is in Learn to Skate. At the age of two she had no interest in skating she just lied down on the ice and ate it. So, we decided she wasn't ready and waited until she was three. We enrolled her in a learn to skate where the parent assists the child on the ice and a coach is there to assist. This was by far the best thing we had ever done. She was always the last one off the ice, and always wanted more. Now that she is four, we enrolled in an actual Skating Club in the Learn to Skate and since the fall has passed two levels. How proud am I!

I think the key here is to focus on fun and family and do not push the little one too much or you will send them the other way. At 7 months, my opinion is that it is too young. But if your family all skates then the only thing you can do is try. If she doesn't like it, put her in the stroller and take her on the ice that way. At least she is exposed to the idea of skating and that mummy and daddy are enjoying it.

Trust me, they all do things in their own time.

[flippet]

Originally posted by Justine_R
Are you impling that I am stupid?
This thread is not too challenging for me actually and as u say i am offering "good and varied advice".
If you did actually read the other replies to this topic you can see that they had a little "tiff"as some people will call it.


Justine, no one's implying that. However, you might be taken more seriously if you'd take the time to spell correctly, rather than use teen shorthand. By the way, if you've got a problem with a thread, report it to a moderator. Don't try to moderate it yourself, since you are, in fact, not a moderator. Thank you. :)

~flippet

[barnita]

My opinion= 7 1/2 month old baby is too young for figure skates. Too uncomfortable, and too dangerous.

I would buy him a good pair of winter boots with traction soles, a top-of-the line helmet, with at least a chin guard, or a face mask. Take him to center ice and let him crawl around or walk around at a family skate. Get him some bubbles to blow and chase. In a year or so, as he continues to grow and develop into a stonger boy, I would introduce him to skates. Skates are very hard, and a thin blade for a baby to balance on would be too dangerous and frustrating for him.

My 3 children started skating at the age of 2 (family skating over the winter months, once a week). And it was really hard on my back as I would have to hold them for the 15-20 minutes they would stay on the ice. They didn't really learn to skate alone though until around 4 when they had mastered walking on the ice and eventually learned to glide. Then, it was off to the Canskate program for the 2 girls so they could learn how to skate backwards and do crossovers. (I never learned how to skate properly and was always nervous.) My son joined hockey and did power skating at the age of 9. He didn't do the canskate program; only family skating or general skating until he started hockey. (The youngest daughter, age 14 now, is still skating for fun and fitness, doing test, and skating on a synchro. team.)

Take your time and enjoy your baby. I bet he is a cutie!
:)

[Justine_R]

Originally posted by flippet
Justine, no one's implying that. However, you might be taken more seriously if you'd take the time to spell correctly, rather than use teen shorthand. By the way, if you've got a problem with a thread, report it to a moderator. Don't try to moderate it yourself, since you are, in fact, not a moderator. Thank you. :)

~flippet

Ok sorry Flippet.
Next time if i have a problem i will report it to you, and sorry about my spelling.

[Skatewind]

Originally posted by Justine_R
This thread is not too challenging for me actually and as u say i am offering "good and varied advice".
What butterfly specifically said in his/her post was "I believe that many people have offered good and varied advice."

This is an important topic & something that most parents & skaters will run into one time or another at the rink. I hope it will not be shut down because of unnecessary arguments & presumptions of what can & can't be said when the discussion is within realm of reason.

[arena_gal]

I dragged my babies/kids out on the ice on parent/kid skate because I wanted an excuse to skate. For a long time they were in a toboggan (with helmets etc) and then they wore skates about age two and skated right away. There was another little boy there about 18 months, wearing his sister's figure skates painted black, they were the only skates small enough to fit his feet, and he was just flying, a natural. He's a good hockey player now, from a family of hockey players. He is the youngest skater I've ever seen, or seen since.

I don't believe in holding kids up to skate. I'll pull them around in a sled, great exercise, believe me, and if they want to skate, they start out sitting on the ice with skates on and pretty soon they figure it out. For a contrasting view, on of my other sons wasn't interested in skating until he was about 9, then he took up figure skating and passed his Junior Bronze in a year and then went to play hockey.

Seven months is too early. Check with your doctor but I believe the bones of the skull are still hardening and a fall could be disasterous.

[karina1974]

Originally posted by butterfly
You are looking for ways for Jack to burn off energy and you are thinking of taking Jack, a 7 1/2 month old onto the ice in skates? Children naturally find ways to "burn off energy". They do not need adults to look for ways for them to do what comes naturally. And I am sorry but a Fisher Price helmet will not protect this baby and I emphasize the word "baby". If you have been skating for 30 years, and you really believe that you can put a baby on the ice safely you need some serious counseling. You state that you would never send him out on the ice alone duh!!! He would be laying on the ice not skating around or pushing any device around. You say you will wait until this baby is 1 year old....so now I am beginning to think that you are pulling our leg on this one. Skating parents have the reputation of being a little over the top but you take the prize. I hope the rinks all over the country step in and protect children this young. BTW, if you want Jack to "burn off energy" put him in the middle of the floor with a lot of colorful toys all around and watch the energy burn.

Wow, butterfly, you took the words right out of my mouth! Said just what I was feeling but couldn't quite formulate my thoughts into type(it's late!). I have a HUGE bone to pick with these parents who just can't let their babies BE babies. No, they have to shunt them off to all these sports or dance classes, without even waiting to find out whether the kid even wants to participate.

It's better to expose them to dance/skating/gymnastics etc. and if they show genuine enthusiasm for the activity, THEN seek out the appropriate program in which to enroll them. I had a long career as a competitive/show twirler which I LOVED, in part because I was not pushed into it by my parents (it took 3 years of my self-teaching from library books for them to realize how serious my passion was) but was supported, AND I was allowed to make all decisions regarding my career (starting at age 11 when *I* picked the twirling school I would attend for 12 years) even though my parents were the ones footing the bill for classes, competition fees, costumes, etc. I can't imagine what it would have been like to take lessons because my PARENTS wanted me to, not because *I* chose the activity of my own accord.

And I agree that Jack is FAR too young to be out on the ice. Children his age lack the necessary muscle strength, ability to take a fall, gross motor skills, etc. to even make being out on the ice worthwhile, or safe. All he'd be doing is toddling around, held up by someone (and it's very easy to lose your balance when trying to stop someone else from falling on a slippery surface), and what is the point of that? That's not skating. It's called putting a child into an environment he is not physically able to handle as yet.

[iskater13]

I waited a few days to see if anyone would actually have any good advice......yes i thank the people that gave me good info, however i am truly disappointed by the last response.
I am not pushing jack to do anything, i just want him to try lots of different things to see what he likes best. Just because my child walked early does not mean i am pushing him into anything.

Enough said by me, I am not going to upset the board moderators by slamming the parents that slammed me, what for?? so i can feel better for about a half a minute. I hope all the posters that had bad opinions of me as a parent are perfect parents themselves, but i am quite sure most of these people live in glass houses

So long skating forums, I cannot stand all the perfect parents here in this forum that cannot even take a simple subject seriously and give me advice instead of slamming me. you should all be ashamed!

ps..i hope the mods take this subject off the board, because obviously some of the posters cannot handle it!

[blue111moon]

Wait a minute.

You asked a question, people responded, you don't like the answers, so now you accuse people of slamming you and want the thread closed?

Face it, you're going to do what you want (put this child on the ice) no matter how many people tell you they think it's a bad idea. Fine, Jack's your child, you can parent him any way you want.

For the record, I don't read anything "offensive" in any of the recent posts. Except that they don't support with your decision, exactly what is so offensive?

[sk8taxi]

Personally I wouldn't put an infant on the ice. Too dangerous.

My first child was a very early walker also. I remember the excitement and thrill we felt about our little "genius"!!!! I know as a new mother you are just bubbling over with pride and dreams for Jacks' future. Most new mothers feel that way. It is normal and healthy! Congratulations!

Ahh... yes.... I also remember the "Advice Nazis".

[Skatewind]

Originally posted by sk8taxi
Ahh... yes.... I also remember the "Advice Nazis".
When my child was a baby, the "Advice Nazis" (as you call them) were the people who crammed their unsolicited demands & expectations & one way to do things onto parents & children. Not those who simply disagreed or tried to answer a question posted on a message board with a reasonable suggestion, or recommended that a parent consider all sides of the equation. Generally speaking, people who don't want to have a discussion like this or want to maintain privacy usually don't create the first post of the topic. Like blue111moon said, the person is going to do whatever they want. I find it unfortunate though, that you or the poster feels things like checking with third party professionals before reaching a decision or waiting until the child expresses interest on his own is considered worthy of "Advice Nazi" status, but that's a very telling viewpoint too.

[Skatewind]

Michael Weiss has an interview in USA Today & here is what he had to say about his own children & skating:
Chesapeake, VA: I know that you have two adorable children, have they shown any interest in figure skating, and will you put them on the ice when they are a bit older?

Michael Weiss: My daughter showed interest when she was 3. She begged me to get out on the ice with her own skates, so I finally gave in and put her on skates, and she was interested for about two months and then was over it. Now, she loves ballet and gymnastics, and I don't see a figure skating future for her.

My son has a strong interest in ice hockey. He loves watching it, playing it and anything that has to do with hockey, he wants. I've kept him from skating lessons until he's a little bit older. I don't want to get him started too young and frustrate him with the difficulties of learning to skate at a young age. He also likes baseball, football and soccer.

No matter what sport or academic pursuit, I will try to be supportive and encouraging of their desire to become successful.
Talk Today with Michael Weiss (http://cgi1.usatoday.com/mchat/20031209001/tscript.htm)

[u'scarywind]

SkateWind,

Read the posts entirely.

Sk8 Taxi was not addressing you. She was offering advice and support to a young mother. Geez, I am not even a parent and I could pick that up. You are way too CRITICAL! Try some hormones. Yikes.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by u'scarywind
SkateWind,

Read the posts entirely.

Sk8 Taxi was not addressing you. She was offering advice and support to a young mother. Geez, I am not even a parent and I could pick that up. You are way too CRITICAL! Try some hormones. Yikes.

well, i always thought that posting questions, opinions, information, etc., on an open forum was an invitation to others to participate. skatewind just posted some pretty competent commentary.

in fact, in my opinion, skatewind has a very solid track record of posting quality information and opinion---whether i agree or not, am the "target" of sw's disagreement or not, i appreciate sw's posts.

oooy-gooey friendsey-wendzie, agree with me and cheer for me only commentary (or die, you @#$) is so very boring. but personal attacks that have no other content are pretty useless, even if they're fun to laugh at. (especially the new user names that pop up in the process!).

on another matter. i personally take every opportunity to listen to "skate nazis." at least they passionately believe in something, and, if you listen carefully to enough of them, you actually learn something, see various perspectives in the sport, are alerted about dangers and pitfalls (real and imagined), and might even begin to form an educated opinion of your own!

sure beats staying ignorant or wallowing in your own delusions forever!

[Figureskates]

I work as a skateguard at my rink and have been doing it for 4 years.

The minimum age is 4 to be on the ice.

No double runner skates allowed.

As a previous poster mentioned, parents skating while holding a child gives me the heebie jeebies. Four years ago a parent did fall with his daughter. I wasn't there but it was a horrifying 5 seconds before it was realized that he didn't land directly on his daugher and she was OK, just a little shakened up.

Also we stress the wearing of helmets for young skaters and novices. We even have adults wear helmets who are just learning to skate.

[Justine_R]

Originally posted by blue111moon
Wait a minute.

You asked a question, people responded, you don't like the answers, so now you accuse people of slamming you and want the thread closed?

Face it, you're going to do what you want (put this child on the ice) no matter how many people tell you they think it's a bad idea. Fine, Jack's your child, you can parent him any way you want.

For the record, I don't read anything "offensive" in any of the recent posts. Except that they don't support with your decision, exactly what is so offensive?

Wait a minute.
You just prooved that people are suposedly "slamming her".
You are slamming her right now.
Do you even realise it??

Just for the record-Yes she is the parent , and yes she is going to make the decsion.
She asked for your advice not for your put down and as for you Butterfly that was completly uncalled for.like hello if u did actually read the post she had said advice not for you to be calling her names and implaying that she needs counseling.!!

If she feels that she wants to put HER! Child on the ice then let her be.

Stop the name calling.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by Justine_R
Wait a minute.
You just prooved that people are suposedly "slamming her".
You are slamming her right now.
Do you even realise it??

Just for the record-Yes she is the parent , and yes she is going to make the decsion.
She asked for your advice not for your put down and as for you Butterfly that was completly uncalled for.like hello if u did actually read the post she had said advice not for you to be calling her names and implaying that she needs counseling.!!

If she feels that she wants to put HER! Child on the ice then let her be.

Stop the name calling.


huh???? aw, c'mon.
i don't see any "namecalling" or "slamming" in these comments, nor in any of the posts from other folks who think it's a bad idea.

me included, by the way.

i'm in the group that's all for developmentally appropriate activities. i've heard of 4 year olds asking to skate when they see siblings in shows or come with parents/grandparents to ice rinks. usually, generally however, the first skating experiences happen around 5-6 or so.

from talking to lots of parents/grandparents at competitions (mostly the nationals) there really is no correlation between how early a kid starts and their ultimate success.

i have, however, seen/heard of lots of kids who "burn out" way before reaching the level of their natural talent because of being pushed into skating too early, too seriously.

i vote with keeping the young'ns busy with activities, but lots of different activities. eventually they'll show greater interest in a few, then gradually zero in to one they really like.

i'd also vote on the side of slightly overprogramming (not to the point of having no free time at all, however) because it keeps them out of trouble and provides a variety of opportunities for nurturing positive self-esteem.

[butterfly]

Originally posted by Justine_R
Wait a minute.

She asked for your advice not for your put down and as for you Butterfly that was completly uncalled for.like hello if u did actually read the post she had said advice not for you to be calling her names and implaying that she needs counseling.!!

If she feels that she wants to put HER! Child on the ice then let her be.

Stop the name calling. I think that counseling can be a positive suggestion...we all need counseling, either professional or friendly at sometime in our lives. My comments are given to protect a child. She asked for comments and advice. Many people have offered her advice. I am hoping that she loves Jack enough to listen.

I made a promise to myself that I will always speak and act boldly for the protection of children.

Justin_R I have interpreted from your messages and spelling that you are very young and someday when you have children you may understand more our concern for this little boy, Jack.

[iskater13]

Originally posted by butterfly
I think that counseling can be a positive suggestion...we all need counseling, either professional or friendly at sometime in our lives. My comments are given to protect a child. She asked for comments and advice. Many people have offered her advice. I am hoping that she loves Jack enough to listen.

I made a promise to myself that I will always speak and act boldly for the protection of children.

Justin_R I have interpreted from your messages and spelling that you are very young and someday when you have children you may understand more our concern for this little boy, Jack.
R u saying I need counseling????????

I appreciate the person who works as a skate gaurd telling me that persons experience on the ice and i appreciate anyone else who gave me straight forward advice, whether it was for or against the subject, but like one of the previous posters said, I do not like all the name calling and
i am in no way abusing my child where other people need to step in and make sure he is OK!
By the way, you can not interpret from a message how old someone is or for that matter how much experience they have, unless you can read minds too.

[butterfly]

Originally posted by iskater13
R u saying I need counseling????????

I appreciate the person who works as a skate gaurd telling me that persons experience on the ice and i appreciate anyone else who gave me straight forward advice, whether it was for or against the subject, but like one of the previous posters said, I do not like all the name calling and
i am in no way abusing my child where other people need to step in and make sure he is OK!
By the way, you can not interpret from a message how old someone is or for that matter how much experience they have, unless you can read minds too. Please take a deep breath :). The definition of "counsel" is a mutual exchange of ideas and opinions..to recommend. It should not have a negative connotation. I think that you ask for "counsel" of people in this chat room by asking what you should do. Counseling is not an insult or name calling. And to address your other comment...no one said you were abusing your child. As parents we have to muddle our way along making decisions for our children and sometimes we do things to and with our children that are not advisable for their good welfare and I just think that taking Jack on the ice at 7 1/2 months old is not in his best interest. I speak straight and strong in that advise. You may take it or leave it. Jack is your responsibility, his safety is your responsibility. He is a vulnerable little baby and you are smart enough to ask for advice. No one forces you to take the advice.

And in response to your last comment. No, I am not a mind reader :). It is just a guess after reading his many comments and his poor spelling. I can say with some confidence that he is a very angry person. He needs a hug.

If you like the other posts that have given advice take those not mine, but I am a mother and I know what joy you experience everyday with Jack. Please protect him.

[butterfly]

Whoops....just been reviewing Justin_R and previous posts. Didn't mean to assume Justin to be a he. Just discovered that Justin_R is a she and yes YOUNG!!!!!

[sk8taxi]

Skatewind, I think you missed the First sentence in my reply to Iskater13.
I did not feel the need to elaborate any further on my position due to the fact there are several previous posters who gave intelligent, informative, nonjudgemental opinions. No need to beat a dead horse.

Originally posted by sk8taxi
Personally I wouldn't put an infant on the ice. Too dangerous.

My first child was a very early walker also. I remember the excitement and thrill we felt about our little "genius"!!!! I know as a new mother you are just bubbling over with pride and dreams for Jacks' future. Most new mothers feel that way. It is normal and healthy! Congratulations!

Ahh... yes.... I also remember the "Advice Nazis".
My second paragraph was addressing the unneccesary implication by some posters that Iskater13s' motivation was anything other than new mother enthusiasum.
Personally, I remember thinking my kid was some sort of "superkid" also. Ahhh yes... Lil Jr. was so advanced! giggle giggle. Most new moms feel this way at some time. Unrealistic?yes Normal? yes. I believe a majority of the posters realized this and replied with firm advice, realizing that Iskater13 would never intentionally endanger her child. My paragraph was a compassionate statement addressing Iskater13s' unrealistic yet nieve expectations for herself and Jack. Iskater13s' motivations need not be viewed as anything other than new mom zealousness. Nothing more.


Now for my final comment, "advice Nazis". It speaks for itself yet, I will elaborate.
As new mothers, many moons ago, we had a playgroup for the toddlers. There was one parent in the group who felt the need to go above and beyond the normal realm of friendly advice and concern. One who's advice, perhaps correct, was so confrontational and instigating, HER MOTIVATIONS were questioned. (My personal opinion of this paticular mother is that she needed some attention at home.) Hence, we crowned her the "Advice Nazi".

It is unfortunate, Skatewind, that you took it so personally and felt the need to give my lil' nickname a new definition,(see your post above). The INITIAL comment was not directed toward you.


As to the comments several posters have made toward the YOUTHFUL posters.... Thank goodness for the young!!! You keep us old battle axes from becoming closeminded, shriveled up know-it-alls! Albeit, I have a difficult time with the slang and have no intention of learning it.

[Skatewind]

Originally posted by iskater13
By the way, you can not interpret from a message how old someone is or for that matter how much experience they have, unless you can read minds too.
For some reason, I find this remark along with all the "I don't like name calling" comments from a couple posters particularly hilarious on this thread, where we have the pseudonym doctor misdiagnosing & misprescribing hormone treatments for people who are the wrong age to take them! u'scarywind isn't going to be admitted to medical school with those assessments, & malpractice suits can be very costly for negligent parties.

My posts are too critical because I disagreed with something & commented on the term "Advice Nazi"? It's amusing, but it's really nothing compared to a poster (young, old, or otherwise) who has become so critical & distraught with the subject matter at hand it forces him/her to pseudonym their way through the topic. Now that's true obsession. Unfortunately for me I have only a limited amount of time available & don't choose to use it that way or I'd suggest a truly punny & creative example instead of the rather blah one provided here.

** updated to add ** sk8taxi, I just read your post & my apologies if I misinterpreted your definition of "Advice Nazi". The original comment was not as clear as what you just now stated. While I understand your point of view, I still feel someone who openly solicits comments & information on a public message board like this is hardly the same thing as the mother forcing it on all the other mothers at the playgroup. It does seem disingenuous for one to solicit responses in this manner & then become so agitated because it is not what they want to hear. Although there have been a couple extreme responses, it is no reason for some of these other posters to take it to the other extreme when for the most part people have been reasonable in their disagreement.

[flippet]

Originally posted by Justine_R
Wait a minute.
You just prooved that people are suposedly "slamming her".
You are slamming her right now.
Do you even realise it??

Just for the record-Yes she is the parent , and yes she is going to make the decsion.
She asked for your advice not for your put down and as for you Butterfly that was completly uncalled for.like hello if u did actually read the post she had said advice not for you to be calling her names and implaying that she needs counseling.!!

If she feels that she wants to put HER! Child on the ice then let her be.

Stop the name calling.

Justine, if I recall correctly, previously in this thread in fact, I've asked you to not try to moderate on these boards. How about if other people seem to be 'namecalling', you just stay out of the fray, and report it to a moderator, ok? All you're doing is adding fire to fire. Please stop, both on this thread, and on others. Thank you.








I've allowed this thread to continue because I feel that both the original topic, and the offshoot discussion about advice-giving are, at base, things that can stand to be discussed. As long as opinions are given reasonably, strong or not, that's fine. As someone pointed out, if one doesn't agree with the advice given, that's ok--no one's forcing you to take it.

However, I think tensions have run a bit high on this particular thread, so I'll close it for the time being.

One more thing--knock it off with the pseudonyms.

~flippet