Michelle Kwan please don't retire from competitive skating

[ILoveAllSkaters]

I have been a fan of yours for 6 years plus. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE YOU SKATE MORE!! :D

[Jimmy Hoffa]

I agree with you but I sometimes get the idea that others have been dropping subtle or not subtle hints that they are ready for her to GET OUT NOW, and I don't mean just the fans or the media.

[nits]

It'll be interesting to see how the ratings are effected if/when Michelle no longer competes. Michelle is an extremely popular skater, and to many she IS figure skating. I also hope she continues to skate, however she owes the skating community nothing..and IMO, they need her much more than she needs them.

[bleu]

I think this "taking a year off" if it is true is the best thing that she has ever done.

1. it would give her time to focus on what path to go from now on.
2. it will give her time to see what direction ladies skating is going.
3. she can come up with a plan and bring something new to Ladies skating. All her rivals will have to follow in her footsteps. There is nothing as great as being the frontrunner. :wink:
4. she needs time off.
5. she is worth it. :)

[Patty]

[quote:54ac16ec28="Jimmy Hoffa"]I agree with you but I sometimes get the idea that others have been dropping subtle or not subtle hints that they are ready for her to GET OUT NOW, and I don't mean just the fans or the media.[/quote:54ac16ec28]

Do you mean ISU, USFSA, judges, or people closer to her (family, bf, agent, etc.)?

[Lise]

I agree with the other poster that said that taking a break is the best decision Michelle has made. She has accomplished a lot in the sport and the only thing she thinks she's missing is the Olympic Gold Medal. That was her motivation to staying for SLC. IMO, I don't think she needs that medal. She is a decorated skater and I think she should explore other avenues in her life such as college. For years we've been hearing how she wants to enjoy college and I doubt she's had the opportunity to do other activities in college since she is splitting her time between that and her skating.

This break could give her the time she needs to decide what she wants to do in her life. There is no guarantee that she will win gold in Torino and is she willing to put her life on hold for another 4 years? She's been skating for most of her life and I think this break is a well deserved one. I wish her well in any decision she makes.

[mikey]

[quote:a9e7a7034a="Lise"]There is no guarantee that she will win gold in Torino and is she willing to put her life on hold for another 4 years?[/quote:a9e7a7034a]

This is the same thing she said after Nagano- that she might stay in for 4 more years until SLC and still not win... Nothing new to her...

I guess I don't know what to think. Since so few people "retired" afer 98, I assumed that there would be a mass-exodus after SLC. It just doesn;t seem to be happening. There are a zillion potential reasons for this, but that's not the point here. For me, the year after an Olympics has always been one of the most exciting times in figure skating- seeing who the new "stars" will be...

That being said, I do think it is time for "change" in elite figure skating- whether that means new faces or new styles. I think it is really time to see the top names shake things up a bit- some less traditional combinations, unusual music, I dunno... Michelle tried to reinvent herself last season, and that was certainly refreshing, although you just have to wonder about the timing of it...

I'd love to see Michelle stay in, but in the process, I would beg that she use her enormous talent to keep changing the sport. Maybe i expect too much from her- I mean, no one was doing the "standard" 7-triple program before she came along, so she has already had an enormous impact.

But hey- if she opts out, I support that too! 8)

[ILoveAllSkaters]

I like Michelle Kwan for her SKATING as well as the fact that she is such a nice person. :)

[loveskating]

Well, just to nitpick, don't you mean 6 triples...doesn't it take a 3/3 to make it 7 triples? 3/3s are not that common, IMHO, although I bet MK has landed as many or more 3/3 toe loops than Irina has landed more difficult combinations and 3/3 toe loops.

But technically, isn't a combination judged as a single thing, as a combination, although you get credit for one jump if you don't land the second?

I hesitated to post here, don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but I feel the other view should be stated. I feel MK should go professional...she has peaked as an amateur, IMHO, and to stretch herself and remain engaged and not get sidetracked, she needs now to focus on aspects of her skating that one simply cannot focus on as an amateur and remain competitive as an amateur. I don't think MK came close to her peak performances in 2002, even at U.S. Nationals, despite the 3 lutz/2 loop.

For instance, a lot of the innovations Kulik has made cannot be done as an amateur (twizzles into a 3 axel, going into a spin off the landing of a loop, the footwork, the Kulik Spin, etc. etc....just can't do those things in amateur competition).

Also, I think the excitement goes from the sport when someone dominates the sport for so long...more so when at the same time, they cannot advance any further technically or otherwise.

This also applies to Maria...she has peaked, clearly, although she has not similarly dominated the sport.

OTOH, I read a post somewhere else saying that MK wants Tarasova for a coach, and I'd sure like to see the result of a collaboration like that...it would be different, that's for sure and IMHO Tarasova has a way of bringing out the very best in all her skaters.

[Debbie S]

[quote:309fadeedc="loveskating"]Well, just to nitpick, don't you mean 6 triples...doesn't it take a 3/3 to make it 7 triples? [/quote:309fadeedc]

Actually, a 7-triple program can be done (and has been by MK and others many times) w/o a 3/3. The rules allow a skater to repeat 2 different triple jumps. One has to be done as a combo. Consider Michelle's "back-up plan" when she doesn't do her 3/3: she adds another solo 3 toe at the end. This makes for a 7 triple program, and there is no rule violation b/c her lutzes and toe loops were each done as combos (3T/2T and 3Z/2L) and solo. Sarah Hughes also added in a 3T at the end of her LP at Nats this year after popping her intended 3 loop in her 3S/3L combo.

I would love to see Michelle continue competing, but only if she wants to. I do think she's earned a break, though - maybe we'll see a Todd-like hiatus. I imagine that ratings would drop somewhat, at least initially, if Michelle stops competing. Regardless of how she finished at the Olys, she is the face of figure skating to so many people.

[adrianchew]

Yes - its definitely possible to do 7 triples without a 3/3 combo. Until some lady does a 3-axel, we're not going to see 8 triples in ladies FS. That said, the 7 triple program is very often attempted but I doubt if any skater has an 80% consistency rate cranking out clean 7 triple programs.

My Canadian friend often reminds me that I'm too US-centric. Perhaps the ratings in the US will drop somewhat, but I doubt if CTV or Eurosport will be affected by having Michelle or lack thereof. It would be disappointing if that was all a casual skating fan tuned in for though - there's so much talent out there, you can take your pick for any number of US ladies as a possible successor.

[~*balletic*~]

[color=indigo:d89426f4ed]Has Michelle peaked? Maybe, maybe not.
Irina was written off, as others have been. It is possible to be in a slump, and then emerge even better.
Only Michelle knows what she is capable of. What others have on her is jumping...that's about it. If she can get her jumps up to speed and stretch a bit artistically, she could easily be on top again.
I don't know if that could or will happen, but I've learned to never say never in figure skating.[/color:d89426f4ed]

[loveskating]

I agree, could be a slump. But one difference is that Irina was in a classic growth spurt, where her jumps, which was really all she had then except for good edging and speed, and a Bielman, completely failed her. Michelle is fully mature, has no coach, is used to winning, has dominated skating since 1996. However, Maria Butereskaya did improve quite a bit in her 20s, so its possible.

I would respectfully disagree that the only thing others have on Michelle Kwan is the jumps.

Others also have her on the spins, including the layback and camel spins (Irina, Sasha, Angela, Sarah) and difficulty and innovation of spins (Irina -2-ways Beilman, Sasha, Front and Side Catch spins that absolutely set a new standard); others have her on the footwork (Irina) or match her (she took a lot of the difficulty out of the Rach, for instance); Sasha even matches or surpasses her on the spirals; on connecting elements and the utilization of rockers and counters, real footwork as connecting elements, not just gliding about, she is equaled or surpassed by others as well (Irina, Sarah, Sasha).

Michelle has the best split falling leaf (a non-required connecting element which is usually in her footwork section -- but Sasha's Russian Split is of the very highest quality as well, IMHO better than any of the men's even) and MK's 3/3 toe loop is magnificent when she hits it...often, her jumps are spot on technically even if smallish, and she is very consistent when it really counts...so far, only Irina and Sarah can match her as to consistency. But element for element, she is very much equaled or surpassed.

To me, Michelle Kwan looked one way up against Tara, Kwiatkowsky, Maria, Bobek, Chenl Lu...up against Irina, Sasha, Sarah, Angela and a few others, Kwan looks quite different...things have changed...and in the wings are a very consistent Jenny Kirk and also A.P. McDonaugh, who has the best sit spin I have ever seen in my LIFE, and a true lutz.

[Hannahclear]

Her posture, stroking quality, edging and musicality are still above the rest of the field. Sasha matches her artistically, but that's it, she still is the best overall on the 2nd mark. Her spirals and Sasha's are the best in the field.

I'm sorry, but it is just not that simple. I agree with the poster who said it could be just a slump. You know, it's a sport, and there really is no way to tell what will happen or what Michelle could still do. I agree she needs to make some major changes, but she is not one to dismiss.

[olivia]

IMHO, it's about motivation, plain and simple. We could debate and argue the elements, comparing one skater's elements to another, but that really doesn't answer the Michelle question. The fact is, Michelle is a proven commodity and can continue to be among the sport's best if her body cooperates and if she really wants to be. She may not win every competition -- and that's been the case for several years now -- but she'll still be in the hunt and still a contender for gold. It's all about desire and motivation, IMO, and the only question in my head is whether Michelle still has that desire and motivation.

O-

[HotIce]

I disagree that viewership would go down if Michelle retired.
It is even possible that it would go up! I know in my case I spent a couple of years being bored by US ladies skating Championships because I knew Michelle would win.
If she retired, a lot of people might tune in to see the battle for first!
I think it could make US Ladies skating much more interesting!
Nothing against Michelle, but I personally am ready for the change and the battle.

[nits]

I don't think there is any question of whether Michelle can compete with the other skaters. It's obvious that she CAN! She is the current National Champion, and World silver medalist. This season wasn't her "best," however it was still a good season! She won Skate America, but had problems at Skate Canada, however she attempted two triple/triples at Skate Canada. Had she not taken those "risks" at Skate Canada, I believe the result would've been different.
GPF..that was a complete JOKE! Michelle should've won.
The Olympics...well, it wasn't her night, but she won a bronze medal, and some believe she should've beaten Irina in the long. (not going there though, so let's not get off on that topic in this thread.)
I don't see how Michelle's season was any different than any other top female skater. Irina didn't have a great season. Sarah had 2 gold medals, but only when others made mistakes. There was no clear favorite in ladies skating, so it's not as if anyone was skating BETTER than Michelle, they were all skating about the same.

[Patty]

[quote:1ad834d286="loveskating"]I agree, could be a slump. But one difference is that Irina was in a classic growth spurt, where her jumps, which was really all she had then except for good edging and speed, and a Bielman, completely failed her.
[/quote:1ad834d286]

Are we talking about the '98- '99 season, when Irina didn't make the Worlds team? She did gain weight, but I think that was due to being out of shape. She came back the following season thinner and in much better shape. If it had been a growth spurt, the changes would have been permanent, which they weren't.

Also, Irina was 20 by then, only one year younger than Michelle was during this past season. I have never witnessed a female going through a growth spurt in her 20s. Females usually reach full maturity between ages 16- 18. So, even if it was a growth spurt, it was some rare exception to the rule, not a classic growth spurt.

[quote:1ad834d286]Michelle is fully mature, has no coach, is used to winning, has dominated skating since 1996. However, Maria Butyrskaya did improve quite a bit in her 20s, so its possible.[/quote:1ad834d286]

I think most people think Irina was also fully mature, when she had an even more disappointing season than Michelle has had this past season. Michelle is a year older than Irina was back then, but she didn't appear to be as physically out of shape as Irina did. Maria, Tatiana, Nancy K., and Kristi Y. have proven ladies skaters can skate well at least into their mid- 20s. If they want to, I hope Irina and Michelle can do that as well.

[quote:1ad834d286]I would respectfully disagree that the only thing others have on Michelle Kwan is the jumps.
(edit)
But element for element, she is very much equalled or surpassed. [/quote:1ad834d286]

Though she struggled this season and some skaters perform certain elements better, right now in ladies eligible skating, Michelle is still overall the most complete skating package in her technique, basic skating skills, technical abilities, artistry, and consistency, IMO.

[quote:1ad834d286]To me, Michelle Kwan looked one way up against Tara, Kwiatkowski, Maria, Bobek, Chen Lu...up against Irina, Sasha, Sarah, Angela and a few others, Kwan looks quite different...things have changed...and in the wings are a very consistent Jenny Kirk and also A.P. McDonaugh, who has the best sit spin I have ever seen in my LIFE, and a true lutz.[/quote:1ad834d286]

Michelle was up against Irina as much as Maria '94-'98. It seems like people forget that Irina is two years older than Michelle, and has been around the senior Worlds scene almost as long as Michelle.

When they were on, I think LuLu and Nicole were better skaters than Sasha, Sarah, Angela, Jenny, and AP have been so far. LuLu gave one of her best performances at '96 Worlds, and Michelle was able to top that.

I agree that today's ladies field may be the deepest and strongest ever. But, Michelle, when she skates well enough, can still top them. She deservedly topped most of the ladies you mentioned at '02 Nationals. And in the opinions of some, Michelle skated better than Irina in the '01-'02 GP Final, at the Olympics, and at least equalled Irina in the '02 Worlds LP.

[ILoveAllSkaters]

(deleted)

[loveskating]

Just to clarify, I should have made it clear that the maturity I speak of was not about age...Michelle was fully mature [i:0ec0406eec]as a skater [/i:0ec0406eec]by 1998...and although her skating has improved since then, most notably the layback and the 3/3 toe loop, she has fundamentally not changed since then.

My point is that while people make comparisons between Michelle and Irina as to both of them having been amateurs a long time, people fail to point out that while Irina has vastly improved since, say, 1998, Michelle has not changed much at all. People also fail to look at the issue of domination of the sport...MK has dominated the sport, Irina has not, not to this day...and the problem for anyone "at the top" is how do they top themselves.

I think Michelle has peaked as an amateur...even her 3 lutz/2 toe loop is prerotated and underotated as much as 1/2 turn on the ice at both ends of it. She took out a lot of the difficulty of the footwork when she reprised her Rach...and never came close in performance of it to the heights she achieved with it in 1998; IMHO, none of her performances in 2002 came anywhere close to her former peak performances.

As I said, I could be wrong, will not be sad if I am, but this is my analysis.