Identifying Jumps

[sasafrass452]

Now, I've been watching skating for years, but one thing has always aluded me.... identifying jumps. I recognize the axel because of the foward take off, but I can never tell the others apart. Watching them on tv, they happen so fast it's hard to see their foot positions as they take off. Is there an easy way to tell them apart? I know I sound stupid for asking this, but I always wanted to know.

[md2be]

FOr the majority of the skaters, this applies (unless they are left handed skaters) this is all general, and has variations, but this is the standard:

salchow and loop are edge jumps (no toepick used). Salchow starts with a 3 turn (changing forward to backward on one foot) and is on the left foot.
Loop, usually done close to the boards closer to the middle of the rink than the ends, is a backward takeoff on the right foot, although it can look like it is a 2 foot takeoff.

Toeloop, flip and lutz and all Toe jumps (using toepick to launch)
Toeloop and Flip are most confusing...they both have a 3turn prior to "picking" in (when the toepick is placed in the ice). The best way to tell these apart is that the picking foot for a toeloop is the left foot, and for the flip is the right foot.

The lutz is unique in that it has a long backward glide toward the corner of the rink prior to picking in. It, like the flip, uses the right foot to pick in, however the take off edge of the left foot (is supposed to be) is different and hence the difference from a flip.

Without going in to edges used, this is the best way to tell the jumps.
Combo jumps
Because you land on your right leg, you can only do a loop or a toe loop after another jump. EIther you pick in with your left foot and do a toe loop, or you press down and jump off your right leg and do a loop jump (no toepick).

Hope that helps!

[sasafrass452]

Thanx, I hope I can remember that next time I watch! Guess I'll have to look more closely too, so I can tell one jump from another.

Originally posted by md2be
FOr the majority of the skaters, this applies (unless they are left handed skaters) this is all general, and has variations, but this is the standard:

salchow and loop are edge jumps (no toepick used). Salchow starts with a 3 turn (changing forward to backward on one foot) and is on the left foot.
Loop, usually done close to the boards closer to the middle of the rink than the ends, is a backward takeoff on the right foot, although it can look like it is a 2 foot takeoff.

Toeloop, flip and lutz and all Toe jumps (using toepick to launch)
Toeloop and Flip are most confusing...they both have a 3turn prior to "picking" in (when the toepick is placed in the ice). The best way to tell these apart is that the picking foot for a toeloop is the left foot, and for the flip is the right foot.

The lutz is unique in that it has a long backward glide toward the corner of the rink prior to picking in. It, like the flip, uses the right foot to pick in, however the take off edge of the left foot (is supposed to be) is different and hence the difference from a flip.

Without going in to edges used, this is the best way to tell the jumps.
Combo jumps
Because you land on your right leg, you can only do a loop or a toe loop after another jump. EIther you pick in with your left foot and do a toe loop, or you press down and jump off your right leg and do a loop jump (no toepick).

Hope that helps!

[Aimless]

Let me say first off that you aren't alone. It amazes me how many hours I've watched skating on television and how hard it still is to tell the jumps apart. I've made progress though. It helps to know intellectually the difference between the jumps, but that's not all you need to be able to distinguish them on sight.

For example, I understand the difference b/w a flip and a toe loop but that doesn't help me see the difference when a skater is on the ice. In fact, I'm unable to tell them apart--it happens so fast that I just don't perceive that the take off leg is different than the landing leg in the flip, while they are the same in the toe loop. But I do understand that the shifting of balance from one leg to the other that the flip requires is what makes it much more difficult than the toe loop.

Toe pick or no toe pick is the first way to start sorting them out. That we can see clearly enough.

The lutz is fairly easy to tell because of that long leaning diagonal gliding approach, and the jump taking place in the corner of the rink. The free leg flies up, then drives down and the jump seems to turn a 45 degree corner in the air.

That said, it doesn't help me much to think about what edge or even what foot the jump takes off from. As a non skater, it's easier for me to see the distinctive position of the body prior to the start of a jump. I tell the salchow by the momentary slightly crouched and knock-kneed position the skater takes before springing off the ice. The legs are fairly widely separated, then they snap together.

In contrast, in the loop the legs are crossed before take off, one behind the other. That's a position that quite normally occurs for a skater when no jump is intended. So if a jump seems to have come out of no where, with little to telegraph that it's about to happen, it's probably a loop.

Hope this helps.

[md2be]

Originally posted by Aimless
The free leg flies up, then drives down


as a former coach, I cringe at this!!!!!!!!! Oh how many times as a skater did my coaches yell at me to not fly and hammer down my picking leg! LOL

Actually, the proper take off is a picking foot close to the ice. Lift is not achieved by the force of the toe going into the ice, but rather the angle of the foot and velocity of the skater when the toe goes into the ice...therefore, the lower the leg is, the better, easier, and more proper the jump. Think of it like this: water flowing down a conduit and hits a damn...it springs up and makes a big splash...that is what you are trying to achieve with toe jumps. The lower the picking leg is to the ice, the more bent the skating leg, the better (higher) the jump.

[who]

Originally posted by md2be
Salchow starts with a 3 turn (changing forward to backward on one foot) and is on the left foot.

Some skaters have a mohawk entry to the salchow.

Slo mo also helps when learning, slo mo to identify, then put to normal speed...good luck!:)

[plinko]

I checked, yup still there.

Skate Canada tips for teaching triple jumps, it has quicktime files that you can download and slow mo to your heart's content.

Skate Canada Coaching Tips (http://www.skatecanada.ca/english/programs/coaching/ttcarchives/ttcjun02.html)

The triple flip has a real curvy swing roll 3 turn into it as demonstrated by Jeff Buttle, that's another clue to tell flip and toe loop apart.

[Schmeck]

Not all skaters do the long entry into the lutz (think Michelle Kwan and Sasha Cohen's new program- step into lutz) The lutz is on the left outside edge, right toe-pick for ccw skaters. The flip is on the left inside edge, right toe pick

The loop jump -takeoff and landing on the same foot (think Tara Lipinski's 3loop/3loop) Right foot for ccw skaters

Toe loop - just like it sounds - a loop with a toe pick stuck in (left foot will do the toe pick)

Salchow (which I am to learn this session, yikes!) left foot takeoff, right foot landing for ccw skaters.

I've learned not to count on 3-turns, etc for jumps, since many skaters have all kinds of queer quirks regarding their jumps!

[Roma]

Sasafrass, In addition to all the great pointers given already, I'd like to add a few things. I actually learned to identify all the jumps and spins simply by watching tv. I had never taken lessons, nor did I know anyone who knew anything about skating. So I'll share a few things that worked for me. I began by picking the jump I thought I knew the best (which was the lutz) and tried to see how often I could pick it out, and I would listen for the announcer to identify it so I knew whether I was right. When I was starting to be pretty accurate with the lutz, I just started to look at other jumps to see how they differed from the lutz. As Aimless mentioned, I also noticed that the salchow looked knock-kneed. So then I tried to pick out just the lutzes and the salchows. And so on... until I learned them all.
You might want to try it that way, and maybe you can use the video plinko sent you as a reference. One final suggestion: you may want to try your hand at the women's short program. A double axel is required, and most women do the lutz as their combination jump and the flip as the solo. So you'll see the same jumps over and over again. You could, for example, watch the shorts at Skate Canada and just try to identify the lutzes, and when you get proficient, in another Grand Prix short, just try to identify the axels. Eventually you'll get it, and you'll be amazed that you will not only be able to tell them apart, but you will soon start to pick up on the quality of the jumps and other differences between how 2 skaters do the same jump. Have fun!

[SkateFan123]

Originally posted by md2be
as a former coach, I cringe at this!!!!!!!!! Oh how many times as a skater did my coaches yell at me to not fly and hammer down my picking leg! LOL

Actually, the proper take off is a picking foot close to the ice. Lift is not achieved by the force of the toe going into the ice, but rather the angle of the foot and velocity of the skater when the toe goes into the ice...therefore, the lower the leg is, the better, easier, and more proper the jump. Think of it like this: water flowing down a conduit and hits a damn...it springs up and makes a big splash...that is what you are trying to achieve with toe jumps. The lower the picking leg is to the ice, the more bent the skating leg, the better (higher) the jump.

Excellent analogy! It makes perfect sense to me. It made me think of water coming out of a garden hose. More water, bigger splash.

Thanks!!!

[loveskating]

You just really need to compare. If you have access to a rink, compare there. If not, then compare with tapes. The entry, even out of steps or moves has, its own body identification.

I had trouble with the flip vs. the 3 toe loop on television and I really only learned when I was forced to...when my kid learned her jumps, and they start with single jumps.

[md2be]

I have to give credit to Bruce and Margaret Hyland for that analogy...my former coaches.

Also, yes, as of now with the short program, there is often mild footwork leading into the lutz making the entry seem shortened...however, you will still notice that it diagonal toward a corner of a rink. Also, some skaters (incorrectly) set up for a lutz by gliding on the right foot and doing a very quick left foot over right cross over prior to picking off...cant think of who does this right now, but will try to remember. This helps with timing.