Lowery

[CrazySkateFan]

Use this post as you see fit to post about the above case. You can feel free to post your opinion without fear of having your post will deleted.

Please remember that we are all entitled to an opinion and they are neither right or wrong.

[peaches]

I think I've said my piece about how I feel about the case, and I believe that each side, whether you've made a decision (informed or not) on this man or are waiting for details to emerge, needs to respect the opinion of the other. You don't have to agree on guilt, no guilt, but accept that some people have made up their minds (maybe they know more than the rest of us, who knows) and some people have not and will not at this point in time.

I'll post what I had sent another poster about my recollections of Dave as a coach (with slight editing to clarify and/or to correct spelling errors) :

Dave was a very good coach and while I took from him so did John Zimmerman and the (current at that time) National Jr. Dance bronze medalists, Jeannine Jones/Michael Shroge, and they never said one bad word against him. Po (Trisha) Hayes was also taking from him at the time and raved about how much he improved her skating. I never then, nor since, heard a peep from any students about anything bad and we were a close group of skaters. I even dated one of the guys and I think he would have mentioned it had there been something going on; he did live with Dave and Rita for a time before getting his own place. All I heard were snickers from parents and hockey players about how they thought he was gay (like that would have somehow mattered). Rumours, all of it (to *my* knowledge and that's all I can go on); I never heard one bad word from any fellow skaters and never saw anything to make me speculate that he was anything other than a good coach. I'm still realistic though, I know that stuff does happen and that there is always a possibility that someone is not who they appear to be, but I'm waiting on this one.

If he is guilty, may justice be served. If he is innocent, I do feel for him for his life, livelihood, and career are now ruined.

[CrazySkateFan]

Po (Trisha) Hayes ...now that's a name I haven't heard in awhile. Last I saw her skate, she was in Atlanta. I wonder if she is still there. I'll have to ask some Atlanta friends.

As far as your comments, Peaches, I never met the Lowerys. I have no vested interested like others have. If the charges are true, I'm sorry for the young man.

Since I'm not directly involved with any of the parties and since I just don't know enough first hand, I'm not passing judgement on either side.

This is a situation that has no winners, regardless of how it turns out.

If I find anything out about Po, I'll pass it on.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by CrazySkateFan
Use this post as you see fit to post about the above case. You can feel free to post your opinion without fear of having your post will deleted.

ok...

of course you are also free to "delete" you own comments that might no longer suite your purposes. (this link just references my comments on the original thread):
http://www.skatingforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=136447#post136447

which include:

"...appears your first post on 7-25-03 was misinformation that 3 of 4 charges were dropped, which they had not been:
http://www.skatingforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=118506#post118506

so, csf, you deleted your post cited above this evening (10-26-03) at 6:04 pm.


"...and you do seem to be following this rather closely (this one reported, erroneously, that the prosecution requested plea bargain):
http://www.skatingforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=122969#post122969

and you deleted your post cited above this evening (10-26-03) at 6:01 pm.

"...your editing to delete your two posts referenced above speaks volumes about your intent and character..."

i guess you don't want folks to make up their own minds about YOUR position in the lowery matter, after all.

[CrazySkateFan]

You're right, I did delete my posts. No sense waiting for someone to do it for me! And as I have time this week, I'll delete the rest before your monitors do it for me. I just didn't have time last night to do them all. I doubt I will today either but I promise you that I'll do it as soon as I can.

Some on that thread seem to looking for an argument, not objectivity. It seems that the only posts that are welcome on the other thread are those that support your cause. Others are viciously attacked or deleted by your monitor.

I truely really fell bad for the mother and her family. She is trying to protect her son as any mother would. I hope it turns out well for all but I doubt it will since the scars will be long lasting for all involved regardless of the decision. I'm just not so sure the internet is the best vehicle to use to solicite sensitive information but I certainly support the mother's right to do so.

I do agree with those thinking that the info should go right to the prosecutor, however. They are the best equipped to handle the information appropriately. Sometimes what seems insignificant to an individual, could fit the entire puzzle a little better. Often we focus on the details so much that we miss the big picture.

The problem with the internet is that you have no control over information after you click the send button. And that not all information is true. For instance, that post I wrote about 3 of 4 charges being dropped came to me via the internet. Obviously, that was definately not true. PH's link to the Clerk of Courts website pages on the case were very useful in providing a way to check that out. I believe I thanked her for setting the record straight. By doing so, she provided anyone interested with a link to check the actual court documents should they care to. But the person who stated that misinformation to me was also a stranger like all of you that post are strangers to me. It is apparent that a few of you know each other personally.

Since I have no inside info, ( and I don't want inside info), I am still waiting to hear what comes out in court before I decide who or what to believe. You are all free to make up you own mind, either based on whatever you want to base your decisions on. That's the beauty of being an American!

[what?meworry?]

interesting response.

that's ok, i already have saved and printed the significant posts you've made. nice thing about the delete, it's quite useful for rewriting history. (interesting that you didn't mention your source as being over the internet before when you were specifically asked to cite the source!)

yes, phskate and skatewind and others have done a fine job in providing factual information.

[CrazySkateFan]

In fact, I think I did mention my source as being over the internet in the post where I thanked PH for her link. I didn't print it or save it. But you could easily check it. I think if my old memory serves me right, I said something like that this proves you can't trust everything you read over the internet. Or something close to that. Sorry....I just didn't save it so I can't do a direct quote.

[what?meworry?]

do a search on your own stuff.

you'll see that you mention it was over the generic internet, but never responded to the request for more specific information that followed. click my link and read the posts that follow to refresh your memory.

[phskate]

CrazySkateFan, I do not want to continue this argument on a new thread. I asked everyone on the other thread to please stop and I apologized for my comment...see below

Thank you everyone. Please lets not argue over this anymore. I apologize for the idiot remark but what you said was truly hurtful peaches. No more arguing though guys we are getting no where. The forum is not my enemy, the man that hurt my child is. Lets all take a deep breath and not waste our time on arguing. My time is better spent is gathering information to stop the evil this man has done for too long.

I don't understand why you felt the need to delete all your posts but that is your right to do so.

You stated I do agree with those thinking that the info should go right to the prosecutor, however.

I am not filtering information, I do not decide what goes to the prosecutor and what doesn't. I give him all I have. But I don't want to argue with anyone anymore about this. I need all my strength and energy for the fight that is important. I pray that you are never in my shoes but if you are I promise you that you will not be standing by and waiting for information to find its way to the prosecutor. You will fight with everything in your being and use every tool at your disposal because that is what a mother of a wounded child does.

[iskater13]

I really wish that this new topic would go away. It was started last night after all the wars on the other Lowery topic. One more time people, lets keep this to just the facts and stop the bickering. Plus, I am sure this is not really helping phskate or anyone else for that matter.

[md2be]

Peaches, something you said above bugs me and I want to try to explain it....

Your post states repeatedly that Lowery was a good coach (and I agree, having coached along side of him at a rink for awhile). But just because someone is a good coach, doesnt mean he is an upstanding, moral citizen in general. Let me give you an example. My favorite teached of all time, Mr. K., he was fantastic...learned a lot from him, will never forget him. But he was also jailed for embezzelment after stealing money from book sales of his students. Another example...my mom's favorite priest, the one who gave her her last rights, did her funeral, who got her back into the church after a long absence...he lived a double life and had a wife and child on the side. Another one: my best friend's priest whom she trusted her 5 year old son to, whom she adored and sought advice from time and time again...he was just arrested for child abuse.

So just because one is a good educator (coach, teacher, priest etc), doesnt mean he/she is not capable of doing wrong, in whatever form. I think you have to keep the perspective when looking at someone who has been charged with abusing his position as an educator and keep the two issues separate.

[SkateFan123]

I'm confused....what are you all arguing about? Geez. I thought skating was supposed to be fun.

[peaches]

Originally posted by md2be
Your post states repeatedly that Lowery was a good coach (and I agree, having coached along side of him at a rink for awhile). But just because someone is a good coach, doesnt mean he is an upstanding, moral citizen in general.


I was giving my recollections of Dave as a coach in case you missed that part, not stating whether I thought Dave was moral or upstanding, but while we're at it, I'll repeat what I said before and that is that to MY knowledge he did nothing wrong and I never heard of him doing anything wrong. To my knowledge Dave was is/was moral and upstanding. That's why without hearing both sides of this case I will not make a determination on it, though plenty of people are certainly trying to sway my opinion and convince me otherwise. I also said I'm a realistic person, a point you also missed, and that I do realize that people are not always what they appear to be. Basically it boils down to this, I said before I doubt anyone here believes everything they hear, and everyone, me included, deserves the same privilege. :)

[md2be]

hey i wasnt trying to be antagonistic...i have not formed an opinion yet and in all actuality have not read the other thread enough to make that decision.

My point is that just because to YOUR knowledge he is one type of person, doesnt mean he is that type of person to everyone. Look at Ted Bundy, who was a great guy to most who knew him. And look at Gary COndit, who was injustly persecuted in the media.

I understand what you are saying, but many people have dark sides (not saying lowerey does or doesnt here) and as much as we dont want to believe that, as much as we want to believe in the inherent goodness of people in general, sometimes we have to step back, put our own feelings and experiences aside and take a rational look at the facts.

That being said...we dont know the facts. There are only two people who know the facts and realistically we will probably never know the whole truth.

Can you clarify what privledge you want from us? Cause that last sentence doesnt make sense to me....sorry, but not believing what i hear isnt some privledge I can envoke upon you.....

[Arsenette]

As noted by many on this thread alone - this thread doesn't need to exist - it can be moved to the other one. I said my peace there and everyone has said their peace. Now - let's move on.