Campbells Report by Louis

[haribobo]

Campbell's- October 3, 2003

Jump Report

Caller: Louis
Typist: haribobo

Men's FS

1. Plushenko 4t (2foot), 4t-3t, 3ax, 3z (so)-2t, 3f, 3r, 3s. Same program as last season.

2. Goebel 3ax-2t-3r (so), 3s-3t, 3t, 2ax, 3s, 2ax (from standstill), 3fz, 3flip. Music was Queen medley. Several sources say it is boring.

3.Weiss- 4t (fall), 3t, 2ax stumble, 3r, cool walley to 3ax! , 3s, 3z. Military/American music, some good stuff.

4T. Jahnke (African beat)
3ax (fell on stomach), shaky 3t, 3z turn 2r, 2ax, tano 3z, 3f (turnout), 3s

4T. Smith- Jazz Saxophone (I think)
3ax-3t, 3t, 4s (fall), 3z (fallout), 3r (off balance), 3ax (2foot), 3f, 3s (turnout)

4T. Honda Warsaw Concerto
2t, 3s, 3ax (fallout), 4t (fall), 3fz, 2r, 3f (lean forward)

Scott/Dulebohn- exhibition new short program. Much better than last year's program. She doubled toe, throw 3sal saved, fall on death spiral, classical music.

Belbin/Agosto- new FD to West Side Story- music cuts every 15 secs

[haribobo]

LADIES FS

~Jump notes from Louis~

1. Sasha Cohen- 3z-2t, 3f-2t, 3r, 2ax (held on), 3t, 3f (two foot), 3s. Lots of good choreo. Marks in the 5.8/5.9 range across the board. Swan Lake.

2. Michelle Kwan- 3t, 3z (foot down), 3f, 2ax, 3s, 3t-2t, 1z. Did not attempt a loop. Skated to Tosca.

3. AP McDonough- 2ax, 3z, fall on 3t, 3r, 3f (off balance), 3s, 3z (but neither lutz was in combination), 2f. Swan Lake.

4. Jennifer Kirk- 3r, fall into the boards on 3flutz, 3t-2t, 3f-2t, fall on 3f, 3s, 2ax. Music was Die Fliedermaus, or however you spell it-- same as last year.

5. Fumie Suguri- fall on 3fz, 3f, messy 2.25 sal, 3r (messed up somehow), 3fz (two footed), 2ax, 3f-2t. Maybe Mozart.

6. Elena Sokolova- messy 2z, 2f (stepout), 2s, 3r (2 foot), 3t, 2t-2t, 2ax. Russian piano music.

[cocanuts]

this is going to be very interesting-ann patrice and sasha both skating to swan lake!

[loveskating]

I was there. MK waxed first lutz but at the other end of the rink, couldn't see exactly what...and popped second lutz. On 2 axel, Sasha dug toe pick in slightly, not exactly fighing for it, more like she had so much speed coming out of the jump in the runout that she had to dig her toe pick in on the runout...I was over kiss and cry, I could see the tracing. Sasha some bobble on flip landing, at the other end of the rink, could not see what.

Sasha's choreogrpahy is magnificent...one thing leading to another, building...really magnificent choreography, lots of innovation on the spins and innovative positions but not stops or poses. SHe really was a swan numerous times in that program, yet no poses or heavy stops, it was fully loaded skating.

AP's choreography great too but not in the same league.

Men had some great choreography...Tim, Takeshi, Plushenko, especially the footwork section and overall Mike Weiss all had interesting, complex and moving programs...I'd change a few things in Mike's program myself, but overall, really good programs as such.

[Louis]

Thanks to Haribobo for typing out the notes! Here's a more "official" report with some color commentary.

After missing Mid-Atlantics, I decided to go the
cheesefest partially to see the debut of new programs
and partially to see all of the NYC-area 'netters I
typically get to see at Mid-Atlantics. Even with the
steep ($75) ticket prices, there were enough
spectactors to fill almost the entire lower bowl and
part of
the 200-level of Madison Square Garden -- easily, the
biggest crowd I've seen at a cheesefest in the U.S.
I don't know what the ROI will be because renting out
the Garden is very steep, but I wouldn't mind if this
became a permanent fixture.

Sandra, Lorrie, Sylvia, Jen, and I were sitting next
to the commentary booth, and the big news of the
season
is that Dick Button has shaved off his beard! It
looks like Peggy Fleming has blonde highlights.
Because
the commentary booth was not very protected, Peggy,
Dick, and Terry were besieged by autograph seekers,
and
to their credit, they didn't turn anyone away until it
was showtime.

When the judges were introduced, we were horrified to
hear Sviatoslav Babenko's name announced. What on
earth
is the USFSA doing allowing a known cheater to judge
at their event? We booed!

Men, in order of skate....

Tim Goebel (USA) - horrible, barely-recognizable muzak
versions of "Bohemian Rhapsody," "We are the
Champions,"
and "Who Wants to Live Forever." Quite seriously, the
friend of mine who never says anything negative about
anyone (guess who!) muttered "God, this is SO boring!"
about 2/3 of the way through the program. I concur --
this is about a 9.75 on a 10-scale of boring.
3axel/2toe/3loop(step out), 3salchow/3toe, 3toe, stars
into butterfly 8/upright 3/scratch 4, sit 6/back sit
6/upright 4, 2axel, spirals, 3salchow, lunge, 2axel
from standstill, straight-line footwork with rotating
lunges, twizzles, and I think half-walleys, 3flutz,
outside spread eagles, 3flip, circular footwork,
butterfly into back scratch, camel 4/sit 5 - back came
3/back sit 4/scratch 9. I really have no idea how any
judge could have gone up on presentation given how
disturbingly bad the music was. Oy. (2nd place.)

Ryan Jahnke (USA) - Chamada/Cosa Nostra/Candyell Beat
(Brazilian selections, with a particularly hypnotic
extended middle slow section that has been stuck in my
head ever since I first saw the program on video a
month ago). Splatted on his stomach on a 3axel
attempt (arrrgh... he did two huge, clean ones in
warmup), shaky 3toe (he warmed up a very underrotated
4toe, and I guess this was an attempt at that),
twisted sit spin 9, 3lutz-double three-2loop, back
spiral to forward spiral intentionally touching the
ice, lunge, then steps all done in a serpentine,
outside camel 8/sit 3/back sit 3/inside back sit
3/twist 3 (whee -- a spin on both edges! Level 3 in
COP!), 2axel, outside spread eagle
with a flick of his head perfectly suited to the
music, 'tano 3lutz, outside camel 6 to driscoll 4,
3lip(turnout), 3salchow, straight-line footwork with
a neat slide on his hands, 2loop(step out), butterfly
to back sit 6. When I first saw this program on tape,
it reminded me a lot of Krylova and Ovsiannikov's
jungle dance in the sense that it was mentally
stimulating but didn't produce the same kind of
visceral reaction as last year's Cinderella program.
Now that I've watched it a few times, and now that
Ryan has put some more miles on the program, I find
the program intense and
exciting. If he can just replicate what he did on
warmup.... Even though many of Ryan's ardent fans are
anti-COP, I think COP might actually benefit him. I
think it was a joke that he received lower
presentation marks than Goebel here, so I'm open to
seeing how COP might reward the qualities that were
apparently overlooked here. (tied 4th place.)

Michael Weiss (USA) - When Johnny Comes Marching Home
Again/Amazing Grace/Glory Glory Hallelujah.
Big, predictable SPLAT on a two-footed quad toe, 3toe,
upright spin into a back upright spin that went onto
an inside edge (if COP does nothing else, I'll be
grateful for the number of inside edge spins it's
producing), predictable awful skidding takeoff into
2axel with a stumble out, 3loop, flying *axel* camel
not held long but still impressive, walley right into
3axel (where the heck did that come from?!?) circular
footwork with a 1.5 rotational move that might count
as a jump element in COP, 3salchow, 3lutz, camel
6/jump sit 6, "Mike Pike" (I couldn't resist letting
out a cheer :p) into 3flip, straight-line ftk, flying
camel to inside edge/jump sit/scratch wobbling and
traveling all over the place throughout. (3rd place.)

Takeshi Honda (JPN) - Warsaw Concerto. (A more
sophisticated look for him, but still lacking fit and
finish on many of his moves.) Big popped 2toe,
3salchow, 3axel(fell out), camel 6, 4toe(splat),
3flutz, butterfly to back sit 7, 2loop, 3flip(leaning
forward), outside spread eagle to inside spread eagle,
death drop 8, totally out of place toe-stomping
footwork, camel 4/sit 2/attitude 3 - back camel 2/back
sit 4/scratch 4. (tied 4th place.)

Evgeny Plushenko (RUS) - St. Petersburg 300 (last's
year program). Two-footed 4toe, 4toe/3toe swung
around but clean, upright spin, posing, 3axel, 3lutz,
3axel(step out)/2toe, 3lip, 3loop, sit 6/twisted back
sit 6, Biellmann spiral, 3salchow, camel 3/upright in
a semi-layback position 6, straight-line steps that
began at least 1/4 of the way down the rink, flying
camel 7, camel 3/sit 3/layback to Biellmann 5 - back
sit 3/scratch 6 with some travel. This was light
years ahead of anyone else, but there are still too
many nitpicks (spins, posing, incomplete patterns)
that aren't up to World Champion quality. (1st
place.)

Scott Smith (USA) - Concerto for Saxophone. Halfway
through the program, a smile broke out on my face as I
realized he was actually DOING SOMETHING with the
music! (He gets it! He gets it!) The presentation
marks either stayed the same or went up, which was
thrilling for me as a viewer, so I imagine it must
have been equally thrilling for Scott and his coaches.
3axel/3toe, 3toe, fell on a 4salchow that was leaning
badly, flying camel 6/crouch 2, outside spread eagle
to
3lutz(step out), straight-line footwork with a portion
on one foot, 3loop off-balance but clean, inside
spread eagle, outside camel 6, 3axel(two-footed),
brief inside Ina Bauer, 3flip, deathdrop 8, serpentine
moves of outside spread eagle - inside Ina Bauer -
outside spread eagle, 3salchow with a double three,
camel 3 then going into stars into a butterfly/sloppy
back sit/scratch. Last year, I knew he had no hope of
making the World Team regardless of how many jumps he
landed because there was very little relation to the
music or knee bend in his stroking. I see good
progress in both of these areas. (tied 4th place.)

Exhibition of Pairs and Dance....

Scott and Dulebohn skated their new short program to
"Farandole" without much of a warmup. Back press lift
to one hand into a sideway star lift, throw 3salchow
(she saved), SBS 3toes (she doubled), SBS camels 7
into deathdrops 3, 2twist, straight-line footwork, BO
death spiral (she lost her edge and fell over), pair
combination spin. This is definitely a more
sophisticated look for them. And, on a trivial but
nevertheless happy note, Tiffany has grown out her
hair. :)

Belbin and Agosto skated their free dance, but I think
they must have left off the first minute. If not, the
music opens with a slow section, which seems odd.
Like the first incarnation of their Elvis free dance,
there is a music cut every 15-20 seconds. What they
did was fairly good technically -- several one-footed
lifts, both footwork sequence with close closed holds,
complicated twizzles in both directions, and
interesting section of holds where Tanith pulls
herself from low to high -- but it wasn't skated with
much speed or flair. I'm withholding any opinions
until I see the full dance at Skate America.

[Louis]

Part 2


Ladies, also in order of skate....

Ann Patrice McDonough (USA) - Swan Lake, in a costume
that was much less hideous than what I was expecting
(I thought the "swan head" everyone was talking about
would be 3D). 2axel, 3lutz, fall on 3toe, 3loop,
flying camel to donut 13, 3lip(off balance), 3salchow,
nice LFO spiral to LFO Kerrigan spiral (maybe one was
an RFO?), 3lutz with no combo, layback 8, Russian
split to 2lip, deathdrop 5/attitude 5, totally out of
place stomping straight-line footwork,
camel/sit/layback-back camel/back sit/Y/scratch. The
lack of relation to the music was startling. Again,
this is a case where I did not understand the
presentation marks going up, even though she was hit
with a Zayak deduction on the technical mark.
Incidentally, she has one too many jumping passes in
her program for COP. (3rd place.)

Jenny Kirk (USA) - Die Fledermaus, last year's program
but without any smiling (what happened?). 3loop, crash
into boards on 3flutz, layback 7, serpentine spirals,
3toe/2toe, 3flip/2toe, camel 3/sit 3/layback 2 - back
camel to catchfoot 4, camel 4/layback 2 - back sit 2/Y
4, outside spread eagle, fell on 3flip, 3salchow,
straight-line ftk, 2axel, "flying" camel to scratch.
(4th place.)

Michelle Kwan (USA) - Tosca, with very similar edits
to Slutskaya's 2002 free skate. 3toe, 3flutz(put her
foot down a little early), 3flip, 2axel, flying camel
6, inside Ina Bauer to inside spread eagle, 3salchow,
layback 6, camel 4/sit 4 - back sit 5/twist 5, inside
to outside spiral, 3toe/2toe, outside spread eagle,
popped flutz, hand-to-ice spiral, Morozov-style
straight-line footwork, split falling leaf, deathdrop
4 to scratch 5.
Clearly, she's not yet at her physical peak with no
attempt at a 3loop, spins that weren't up to the level
of last year's, and skating wasn't that nearly as fast
as what she produced at Nationals and Worlds. But
Kwan is Kwan, and her level of skating in October is
never a concern come March. The stranger thing is
that there are very few musical highlights in this
program (even
the change-edge spiral comes at a half-hearted
crescendo), and it does very little to differentiate
itself from Slutskaya's 2002 Worlds-winning program.
Well, she has three full months to fix it. :) (2nd
place.)

Fumie Suguri (JPN) - Mozart selections. Fall on
3flutz, 3flip followed by many steps into 2.25salchow
underrotated and landed on two feet, deathdrop 5,
layback 8, two-footed and cheated 3loop with both
hands down, two-footed 3flutz, RFI spiral to RBO
Kerrigan
spiral, 2axel, flying camel to inside edge 6,
3flip/2toe, straight-line footwork which was really
nice (with NO TOE STOMPS! Yay!) until she tripped,
camel 5/layback 4 - back sit 4/scratch too many to
count. Odd that there wasn't a triple toe in this
program. Maybe
Fumie is leaving out the toe in favor of a second flip
in order to get more points under COP. It remains to
be seen whether that warrants a hit on the
well-balanced program components. (5th place.)

Elena Sokolova (RUS) - some extremely boring Russian
piano piece (again, the friend who never says anything
negative about anyone sighed "we're only at the
three-minute mark?" during this travesty of a program.
Messy 2lutz(turned out), 2flip(step out), 2salchow,
flying camel 6, 3loop(two-footed and turn out),
layback 7, 3toe, camel 3/upright 3/layback 3 - back
camel to catchfoot 3, 2toe/2toe, spirals, circular
footwork, 2axel, butterfly to scratch 8. What an
embarrassment to show up so under-trained to be
missing DOUBLE jumps.
Without any exaggeration, I saw no less than six
NOVICE programs that could have beaten this one -- on
overall skating as well as jumps -- at a club
competition two weeks ago. For her sake, I hope she's
left off the TV broadcast. (6th place, though the
corrupt Russian judge
amazingly put ahead of Suguri.)

Sasha Cohen (USA) - Swan Lake. Now, THIS costume I
thought was hideous. On the back of her black skirt,
there is a white swan wing looks amazing like her
costumer lifted an eagle's wing off an Aerosmith CD!
I wonder if this was "THE" dress? 3flutz/2toe,
connecting steps to 3flip/2toe, 3loop, flying camel to
inside edge changing to back sit and then a Y,
footwork right up
into 2axel (held on), LFO "Bobek" spiral, fan spiral,
skid spiral, outside camel 6 to an upright spin 6 with
a twisty arm variation that might garner her an
"originality" bonus under COP, half-Biellmann spiral,
outside spread eagle, 3toe, steps into
3flip(two-footed)
at the exact spot on the ice as the first one,
3salchow, layback 10, more stomping straight-line
footwork, though with a flexi-move or two thrown in
for good measure, camel/sit/layback all with her hands
clasped behind her back - back sit into back
catch-foot camel. It was nice
to see her win, but it was even nicer to skate a
PROGRAM with solid construction and evenly distributed
elements. And her mistakes were, as Lorrie put it,
"normal-people mistakes," not the disasters we're
accustomed to seeing. The program isn't unbeatable,
nor is it "one for the ages," but it's well-designed
and obviously had a lot of thought put into it
regarding Code of Points (e.g., every spin except the
layback is new, and she's doing two flips instead of
two flutzes, presumably to avoid GOEs in the - range).
(1st place.)

Ah, it'll be an interesting season. Can't wait for
Skate America and Skate Canada.

[AxelAnnie22]

I was also there. I was sitting opposite the kiss and cry in the first block of seats. Sasha's program was magnificant. With a few exceptions (Jhanke -sp?- and Honda) the other skaters had music on while they were skating. Sasha was the music. She felt it, she used it, she made us feel it.It was amazing to watch.

Seemed to be a new maturity there with Sasha. She was skating smart, and it showed. And, she looked so beautiful and so happy.


Costumes: The important part, of course. Michelle had on a beautiful lavender dress. I don't kow if we have seen it before, the style looks quite familiar, but it is lovely. Fumie needs help. The man next to me said the costume looked like a "badly colored kleenex!" Jenny's looks like it is from last year. I don't know what Elena's is about. Part of it looked like it went to one song, and the bottom looked like it belonged in another program. I LOVED A-P's. It is quite beautiful, ethereal and has lots of jagged, feather like pieces. I saw a closeup on the who-haw thing hanging from the ceiling, and liked it less. I don't think she needed the swan beak on the front. Sasha's costume I did not like very much ---until she started skating. Then, WOW. It is great for the skate. The costume is clearly designed to emphasise some of the spins and moves.

I was so glad I was there.

[viennese]

thank you all for your vivid and detailed reports. i wish i'd been there. i'm in nyc and would loved to have met you all.

does anybody have a link to a photo to sasha's or ap's free skate dresses? i have been obsessed with over the top 'swan lake' costumes, ever since oksana baiul's olympic feather duster with matching headpiece. (i know, i know, it's what they wear at the bolshoi)

but even oksana's rigid ballerina dress didn't have beady little swan eyes and a beak.

[Jess-ka]

okay maybe it's b.c it's late here or something but i can't figure out for the life of me what 3r means...can some one please tell me:?:

[adrianchew]

Originally posted by Jess-ka
okay maybe it's b.c it's late here or something but i can't figure out for the life of me what 3r means...can some one please tell me:?:

3-loop. The loop was first performed by Werner Rittberger, and called the Rittberger in Europe sometimes.

[luna_skater]

If it was pertaining to a jump, it means triple loop. The "r" stands for Rittberger (sp??), who was maybe the first to land it? Someone else help me out?

[luna_skater]

Thanks, Adrian. Guess we posted at the same time!

[Jess-ka]

ooo duh that makes sense! i think i better get some sleep b4 i do something to embarrass myself:roll:

[Rachel]

Never mind :D.

[MQSeries]

Originally posted by viennese
does anybody have a link to a photo to sasha's or ap's free skate dresses? i have been obsessed with over the top 'swan lake' costumes, ever since oksana baiul's olympic feather duster with matching headpiece. (i know, i know, it's what they wear at the bolshoi)

but even oksana's rigid ballerina dress didn't have beady little swan eyes and a beak.

http://www.usfsa.org/events_results/results/200304/campbellsclassic/pics1.htm

Here's a link from the USFSA site. Sahsa's and AP's dresses don't look that bad from the pictures.

The picture of Sasha looks like she's doing a Beillman spiral without holding on to the free skate. Is that physically possible or is she just kicking her leg back quickly? Either way her position looks amazing.

AP's forward spiral position looks good in the picture. Holding her leg up like NK prevents her behind from sticking out sideway.

MW looks good in that blue military costume.

[Meredith]

If Louis hadn't mentioned Aerosmith, it would have driven me crazy where I'd seen Sasha's costume before. ;)

Thanks Louis and haribob. You rock. Louis, I always look forward to your details and impressions.

[viennese]

thank you for the link.

i believe i do spy swan eyes and beak amid the excessive illusion fabric on a-p's costume, which makes it a potential classic. but i will reserve judgement until i see it on TV.

cool position that sasha is is hitting. she doesn't seem like the dying swan type, which is refreshing. and yes, i get the aerosmith reference. wow.

[loveskating]

I thought Sasha's dress was perfect.

When I first saw her in it in the kiss and cry area, I thought, "Hmmm...the style is almost art deco, so what does that have to do with Swan Lake?" and I wasn't sure I'd like it.

However, once she was on the ice, the way the dress looks in motion emphasizes her being a swan...it flitters and flows with the colors and the design and is very evocative of how a swan moves...and I have had the good fortune to constantly observe the three swans at my daughter's first home rink.

As for MK's Tosca costume...most of her music consisted of e lucevan le stelle...and during that time, Tosca would have on a red satin or a red velvet dress...its ALWAYs the case in any top opera company that Tosca wears a red dress at this time...she has just finished singing an opra when she confronts Scarpia, and then rushes to Cavaradossi, who is singing e lucevan le stelle so the dress is usually very theatrical, not simple. A chiffon lavendar of great simplicity is just not Tosca!

Second, choreographically, I found nothing of Tasca in MK's program! Tosca is passionate, highly religious, and a very, very jealous woman...and during the music in question, she is in a total state...a pious artist has just murdered the dictator of Rome, and, she believes, saved her love from execution, she is going to him! At the end, at least, some semblance of her collapsing into his arms or something evocative of Tosca ought to be there? LIterally, while Cavaradossi is singing e lucevan le stelle, it might be that Tosca is defending herself from rape by Scarpia...this is not "float and evoke" stuff! This needs the kind of hard edged, passionate, approach that I feel was the essence of Irina's Tosca choreography.

[mary]

Originally posted by loveskating
As for MK's Tosca costume...most of her music consisted of e lucevan le stelle...and during that time, Tosca would have on a red satin or a red velvet dress...its ALWAYs the case in any top opera company that Tosca wears a red dress at this time...she has just finished singing an opra when she confronts Scarpia, and then rushes to Cavaradossi, who is singing e lucevan le stelle so the dress is usually very theatrical, not simple. A chiffon lavendar of great simplicity is just not Tosca!

Second, choreographically, I found nothing of Tasca in MK's program! Tosca is passionate, highly religious, and a very, very jealous woman...and during the music in question, she is in a total state...a pious artist has just murdered the dictator of Rome, and, she believes, saved her love from execution, she is going to him! At the end, at least, some semblance of her collapsing into his arms or something evocative of Tosca ought to be there? LIterally, while Cavaradossi is singing e lucevan le stelle, it might be that Tosca is defending herself from rape by Scarpia...this is not "float and evoke" stuff! This needs the kind of hard edged, passionate, approach that I feel was the essence of Irina's Tosca choreography.

Obviously, her choreographer/designers weren't informed of this. You sound like you know what you are talking about and I wonder whether you are a choreographer;)

[loveskating]

Originally posted by mary
Obviously, her choreographer/designers weren't informed of this. You sound like you know what you are talking about and I wonder whether you are a choreographer;)

No, I am not a skating choreographer (nor did I claim to be).

I'm a fan of opera, have been to the Met many times, and have CDs of Tosca by various singers...incluidng Pavarotti/Freni and di Stefano/Callas/Gobbi...as well as a video of Pavarotti/Kabavanska at the Rome Opera. I've read books like 'Tosca's Rome' and also books about the composers, including Puccini. I've probably watched/listened to Tosca by various singers and conductors around 1,000 times so far!

All these books and CDs are available at Amazon.com, by the way.

[loveskating]

Have to differ...I thought Tim's program was great...I'm not familiar with the music, but it was emotionally compelling to me nevertheles, and he is doing something dramatic, which I respect, pushing himself...I can't wait to see that program skated well. I generally love Tim's skating...I realize he is not up there with Yags or Plushenko yet...but he is constantly makeing real progress and I will be happy when that flower blooms big time!

I also loved his costume, and he looked great in it! Black with red scrolly stuff on one side and some nice sparkly rinestones to highlight...simple yet very elegant, I thought.

It was impossible to judge SOkolova's program as such because she was so incredibly off in every way...I just felt very bad for her.

[jpksk8]

Originally posted by loveskating
Second, choreographically, I found nothing of Tasca in MK's program!
what is there to indicate that she was intending to portray tosca? literal interpretations are not necessarily superior. the quality of her program has nothing to do with its "accuracy" in terms of its relation to the opera. the real flaw in her presentation was that she uhm didn't have any choreography.
JPK

[AxelAnnie22]

Originally posted by jpksk8
what is there to indicate that she was intending to portray tosca? literal interpretations are not necessarily superior. the quality of her program has nothing to do with its "accuracy" in terms of its relation to the opera. the real flaw in her presentation was that she uhm didn't have any choreography.
JPK Michelle may not be representing Tosca, but I would hope that she selected the music of TOSCA because she wanted to interpret it (which she did not). Rather she skated to that wonderful and dramatic music as though it was "suggested" music for the program that she laid out. Could have used other music, but decided on this. I felt the same way, btw, with B&A. Most of their program had very little to do with WEST SIDE STORY. (Especially that dress--red it was, but the top of it belonged in Romeo & Juliet!)

Think SOLOME without the costume. Wouldn't have been the same, would it? Isn't this what we refer to as part of the "total package"? :roll:

[AxelAnnie22]

Originally posted by mary
Obviously, her choreographer/designers weren't informed of this. You sound like you know what you are talking about and I wonder whether you are a choreographer;) I thought the entire point of the music, choreography and costume was to create a cohesive mood. I didn't think one needed to "inform" the choreographer of this.....Perhaps the dress designer didn't know what program the dress was for?

Very pretty dress, though.

[Kemy]

i was thinking she was just using one of her fancy practive dresses unti lshe figures out what to do...that's what happened before (Lime green dress from last year...eww)

[loveskating]

Originally posted by jpksk8
what is there to indicate that she was intending to portray tosca? literal interpretations are not necessarily superior. the quality of her program has nothing to do with its "accuracy" in terms of its relation to the opera. the real flaw in her presentation was that she uhm didn't have any choreography.
JPK

Interpretation of the music is one of the criteria of presentation...it specifically states that the skater cannot just skate to the music or do what their coach tells them to do, they have to feel the music...and "feeling" this music, which is high art, is a very well defined matter, both academimcally and among the public outside America!

If she is not playing Tosca, then the only alternative is that she is portraying Cavaradossi, because e lucevan le stelle totally dominates the program. That is a tenor aria, he sings it, and its very, very famous among opera lovers. In that case, she should wear pants, like Witte did playing Robin Hood at the 94 Olympics! When Irina skated to music from the opera, Tosca, her music was not dominated by e lucevan le stelle...and Dick, everyone, still called it a character piece, which it is.

I agree with your last sentence.

However, I was impressed when I first heard the music Friday night (I hadn't known beforehand), just as I was impressed when Irina took on pieces from La Traviata. Irina's weakness is fluidity, and La Traviata has a soft, pretty line mostly, so its hard for her, pushes her (she never quite rose to or managed that music last season, IMHO).

Michelle's strength is fluidity, yet e lucevan le stelle has a hard, edgy, dramatic line so I thought we might see something different from MK...unfortunately, not the case...still I do respect her for taking it on.

The dress was lovely for its own sake...but again, to me, even if she wasn't skating as Tosca, it is inherent in music with a dramatic, edgy line that one does not dress frilly, rather one needs to dress dramatically...and I know MK has plenty of dramatic costumes and LOTS of red dresses...or fuscia, which would do!

Frankly, Michelle's characteristics are more suited to vissi d'arte from Tosca (again, a red dress, LOL)...which, despite its drama, has a pretty and very accessible line that goes more with MK's characteristics.

P.S. Someone posted that their wife is a theatrical designer, including for opera and that anything goes...and that is my understanding as well ...but this possiblity is constrained by what the public will accept when it comes to a very popular opera like Tosca or La Boheme!

For instance, the great soprano, Mirella Freni, recorded a great Tosca with Pavarotti...but she never once actually played Tosca on any major opera stage -- and she was a wonderful actress -- because she felt she would look absurd in the part (she was the perfect Mimi); likewise, the great Joan Sutherland never played Tosca on any major stage for the same reason! Tosca is so popular and so well defined, that only a relatively few dramatic sopranos have been able to convincingly play the part...and I am not aware of any production of Tosca that has broken tradition which has been successful. This opera needs a Renata Tebaldi or a Maria Callas type, and frankly, if I don't see either a red or maroon dress in the second act, I would be enormously disappointed!

[Ellyn]

Originally posted by loveskating
Interpretation of the music is one of the criteria of presentation...it specifically states that the skater cannot just skate to the music or do what their coach tells them to do, they have to feel the music...

The criteria for presentation are:
1. Harmonious composition of the program as a whole and its conformity to the music chosen;
2. Variation of speed;
3. Utilization of the ice surface and space;
4. Easy movement and sureness in time to the music;
5. Carriage and style;
6. Originality;
7. Expression of the character of the music
8. Unison

Nothing about "feeling" the music, nothing about whether the relationship between the music and the movement comes from the skater or from what the coach tells her to do.

What Peggy Fleming specifically states on TV and what the rulebook states are not the same thing.

And nothing about portraying characters from any operas, ballets, musical comedies, movies, etc., that the music was originally written for.

If she is not playing Tosca, then the only alternative is that she is portraying Cavaradossi,

No, it's perfectly permissible and in fact more common than not to just skate to the music as music.

[BittyBug]

Originally posted by Ellyn
The criteria for presentation are:
1. Harmonious composition of the program as a whole and its conformity to the music chosen;
2. Variation of speed;
3. Utilization of the ice surface and space;
4. Easy movement and sureness in time to the music;
5. Carriage and style;
6. Originality;
7. Expression of the character of the music
8. Unison

Nothing about "feeling" the music, nothing about whether the relationship between the music and the movement comes from the skater or from what the coach tells her to do.

...

And nothing about portraying characters from any operas, ballets, musical comedies, movies, etc., that the music was originally written for.

No, it's perfectly permissible and in fact more common than not to just skate to the music as music.

I think that #4 and #7 contradict your statement.

[Ellyn]

Skating in time to the music is rewarded. Whether that is to be achieved through "feeling" or through counting or by any other means is not specified in the rules.


http://www.skatecanada.ca/english/info/figure/judgehow.html#pres

Guidelines from Skate Canada:

1. Harmonious Composition/Conformity with the Music Chosen

This is essentially the overall "look and feel" of the program. Judges must determine if the skater or team is skating in time with the music, and in the case of pairs, with one another. Is the music used fully in terms of placement of highlights? Is the choreography
suited to the music and the skater?

4. Easy Movement/Sureness in Time to the Music

In this component, judges are essentially looking for the ease with which the skater or team performs. Balance, strength, rhythm, timing and flow are all assessed. Skaters performing choreography and highlights with apparent effortlessness will be rewarded
with a higher presentation mark. Michelle Kwan is a good example of a skater who generally performs with such ease.

7. Expression of the Character of the Music

Judges assess whether the skater demonstrates an understanding of the character of the music and uses the whole body in order to interpret the chosen music theme. Judges must determine whether the choreography is being performed because that is what the coach has indicated should be done at certain points in the program, or whether
the program is skated with feeling. Choreography and movement should be inspired from within.

OK, that last statement must be what loveskating is referring to.

Of course, no one can really know just from watching how a skater achieves his or her expression of the music, but a skater who makes it look more natural or internally motivated would deserve more credit on those criteria. It's not an either/or situation, but a matter of degree.

I haven't seen the performance in question, so I don't know how well it was achieved on that occasion. And that can be one of the most subjective types of assessments made in evaluating skating.

Nevertheless, there is still nothing about requiring skaters to act out characters from the plots of the sources.

[Emmaly]

Does anyone have any pictures or know of any on the web from Campbells?

[loveskating]

"7. Expression of the Character of the Music

Judges assess whether the skater demonstrates an understanding of the character of the music and uses the whole body in order to interpret the chosen music theme. Judges must determine whether the choreography is being performed because that is what the coach has indicated should be done at certain points in the program, or whether
the program is skated with feeling. Choreography and movement should be inspired from within."

This is what I am referring to...However, I am not suggesting that Kwan should have been marked down for her costume...my point was in response to a post that seemed to state that costume is totally irrelevant...and I don't accept that. It might be as to marks...but it is not as to the public.

A valid argument can be made that in instances where the music is culturally well defined, as is the case with Tosca (at a minimum, Tosca is a very, very dramatic character and e lucevan le stelle in particular is very dramatic music) wearing something that is precisely the opposite does detract from the program...kind of like if Kurt Browning had worn a tux for his clown number, people would have gone "whhhhhaaat???"

Costume is relevant, and I'd like to see it more relevant and more educated is all...but I would be the last person to argue that it is utterly defenitive or that it should be marked other than as to costume rules...I am almost never bothered by anyone's costume unless I feel it is starkly detracting from the music for me.

Yagudin's black, silvery costume for his e lucevan le stelle in 2000, I think it was, bothered me a lot too...although I thought there was a lot of power and drama in his choreography...one of the few times I've posted anything at all about costumes! I mean, jeeze, Cavaradossi has been tortured, his clothes are ripped, he is bleeding, unkempt and facing execution...not the stuff of black and slivery theatrical!

Of course, I understand that to someone who is not familiar with that opera, this is irrelevant, but I am, and lots of people are, quite familiar with it...and because of that, the dress was simply bothersome to me, a real detraction.

It was a lovely dress...I would rather have seen it combined with a lighter program, however.

However, I didn't see anything of Tosca or even much drama and power in that choreography.

[Schmeck]

Does #7 mean that the Opera has to be done on ice, or that the skating must match the overall feeling of the music? I'm no Opera fan, so I don't have any idea what character is reperesented by certain pieces of music. If I choose to skate to Opera music that inspires me, why do I have to make a little Opera on Ice program? Why can't I be creative and skate to the music as it moves me?

Schmeck, tired of people stuck thinking inside of the tiny boxes of their minds...

[AxelAnnie22]

Originally posted by Schmeck
Does #7 mean that the Opera has to be done on ice, or that the skating must match the overall feeling of the music? I'm no Opera fan, so I don't have any idea what character is reperesented by certain pieces of music. If I choose to skate to Opera music that inspires me, why do I have to make a little Opera on Ice program? Why can't I be creative and skate to the music as it moves me?

Schmeck, tired of people stuck thinking inside of the tiny boxes of their minds... There is no problem in not doing a character piece with a particular piece of music. And, one should only skate to music as the music inspires you. However, one's "inspiration" should match the music.

The entire point of the skate (the package: music, choreography, costume, etc) - aside from winning a medal - is to evoke a mood to paint a picture on ice, so to speak, or to share with the audience (and judges) just what it is you see/feel in the music. The point is for the skater to communicate what they see, sense and/or feel in the music. You (not you personally) would really confuse your message if you dressed like Dorothy in the WIZARD OF OZ, but skated to, say, West Side Story.. :lol:

[loveskating]

Originally posted by Schmeck
Does #7 mean that the Opera has to be done on ice, or that the skating must match the overall feeling of the music? I'm no Opera fan, so I don't have any idea what character is reperesented by certain pieces of music. If I choose to skate to Opera music that inspires me, why do I have to make a little Opera on Ice program? Why can't I be creative and skate to the music as it moves me?

Schmeck, tired of people stuck thinking inside of the tiny boxes of their minds...

Yes, well, I wouldn't call opera a box...its been around for a long time...and its still inspiring other musicians, most recently, Elton John in his creation of Aida for Broadway, which I understand is very successful.

I'm sure any skater can skate to whatever they like...whether in doing so they are able to communicate with others is quite another matter.

If someone wanted to skate and dress light to e lucevan le stelle in Turin, Italy, that would be their choice, but I'm not so sure the audience would be inspired.

There is a great video of the opera, Pavarotti and Kabvianska, at the Rome Opera, in which Pavarotti is forced by the crowd's standing ovation to sing e lucevan le stelle TWICE, and the second is EVEN better than the first.

There is this part of vissi d'arte which almost no one can really sing (they cheat it), and Kabvianska just NAILED it...just like Renata Tebaldi always did, but she refused to sing it again, LOL!

It never hurts to know more about the music you are skating to...could even help.

[Kemy]

I don't think that the box was referring to Opera...more the idea that a person must portray a character from the movie/opera/ballet that the music is taken from. Why not skate to it as a piece of music? When I listen to music, I don't care where it's from or who wrote it as long as I can feel it.

Character of music and character portrayed by the music are totally different...You can skate to a piece of music without ever knowing who the music is trying to portray...If you feel the music, than your skating reflects the music...You don't need to know the character.