Shake-up at Simsbury rink?

[Sarge]

I heard from a friend this morning that the entire Petrenko family as well as Galina Zmievskaya have left the Simsbury rink due to some sort of falling out between Viktor and the rink owners about a charity show Viktor is doing at another rink.

Can anyone verify this and if it's true, shed some light on what would cause something like this to happen?

In the meantime, I'm going to try and get some more info myself.:?:

[IgglesII]

I honestly thought they'd all leave when Tarasova showed up. It also wouldn't surprise me if there was a clash with the ownership, considering the Cromwell portion of the ownership's relationship with Tarasova dating back to 99.

Not that I'm blaming Tatiana for this, if it's true. Just sayin' that the current ownership isn't going to feel the need to suck up the way prior management of that building once did, not when their focus is on the other coach.

[Tony Wheeler]

Victor is the only one who has left. Galina & the others apparently said that they would leave, too, in the event that Victor decided to not return, but from what I hear, he should be coming back.

[Poohsk8s2]

In consideration of the students they have, and the timing before Regionals, Viktor's wife Nina and brother Vladimir will bring their kids through the competitions. But Viktor will not be back! It goes without saying that Nina will follow Viktor, and Galina's students are already skating in the Newington rink when on lesson with her. It was a very nasty and public display that took place between Viktor and the owner, so I think that a huge bridge has been burned. Regarding TT's role in all of this, there isn't one. It was a clash between the owner and Viktor's donation of time to his charity and the timing of the show being close to the Simsbury show vs. the "free" ice the owner gives him to practice. (Viktor is on the road all year!) The final result was the owner throwing Viktor out of the rink. Whether or not the entire Petrenko team walks is yet to be seen... but they are very loyal to each other so I wouldn't be surprised.

Also, Cromwell and Simsbury are now separate entities. That happened in the first week of September.

[Arsenette]

Poohsk8s2 is partway right. Most of it had to to do with not having the ice for the show in October and finally he had to go somewhere else to get the ice for the show. I'm sure there is more to it but this was the final straw. They are all in Newington now.

[PlatniumAngel]

I'm happy Viktor stood up for himself! I'm sure he made a very educated decision. I am glad Galina has decided to back him up as well.

[Cheshire Cat]

How petty of the rink owner to object to a
charity show. Good luck to Viktor wherever he
decides to move to.

:bow: :bow: :bow: to Viktor

[IgglesII]

Was it an objection to a charity show, or the timing of the charity show in relation to the Simsbury show?

And if it was a case of Viktor not being able to participate in the Simsbury show, why would they feel - 8 years after the building opened, and 11 years after he won his Olympic gold - that he's still an integral part of a show in Simsbury?

There are other skaters in the world - call their agents.

[dr.frog]

Originally posted by IgglesII
Was it an objection to a charity show, or the timing of the charity show in relation to the Simsbury show?

And if it was a case of Viktor not being able to participate in the Simsbury show, why would they feel - 8 years after the building opened, and 11 years after he won his Olympic gold - that he's still an integral part of a show in Simsbury?

There are other skaters in the world - call their agents.

The skaters who have negotiated these deals for "free" ice time at Simsbury, Delaware, and other rinks around the country have generally been under contract to appear in some number of shows held at the rink each year, and to allow their names to be used to promote the rink. If Viktor is trying to get out of his end of the deal because he is otherwise occupied with producing his own charity show at another nearby rink, I think the rink management has a right to be pissed. OTOH, I have no particular knowledge that's what's happened here.

[Arsenette]

From what I understand.. the rink did not get back to Viktor on ice time. If you noticed - the show is next week! So since the show was already scheduled for a date and Simsbury was not accomodating them (as they were going to - something about hockey ice :roll: ) then they left. This is of course from someone I talked to. I'm sure once they other rink was secured Simsbury wanted to know what "happened". I would do the same thing if I couldn't get the friggin' ice.

[Anemone]

As upsetting as the incident you described was, at least
Viktor is a grown man, who can defend himself (He is also
one of the kindest people you would hope to meet, and he's kind to everyone--young, old, middleaged; rich, poor, in between, skater, parent, etc.). Some of the things that go on at Simsbury would curl the hair of anyone with an iota of human decency. There is a small band of hellacious mothers who gossip, lie, spread rumors, exagerrate--you name it--who have tried to make the lives of at least ten *children* I know of miserable. This rink needs to clean up its act, IMHO. Tell me it's not loike this everywhere. Are there any rinks without this type of problem?

** anemone **

[BittyBug]

Ha - wherever there's skating, there are "skating moms" who are eager to build their progeny up by knocking others down. Sad, but true.

[Trillian]

Originally posted by Anemone
Are there any rinks without this type of problem?

Rinks? Sure. Major training centers? Probably not. It's one of the worst things about the sport, but unfortunately it does come with the territory. I wouldn't single out Simsbury. It's not the worst place for a young skater to train; I know of other major rinks with a lot more problems.

[PlatniumAngel]

Simsbury skating moms are by far the worst skating moms I have ever come accross in my 11 years in the skating world! It's usually the parents of the skater's who spend A LOT of money and feel their child isn't getting anywhere and they take it out usually on the successful or talented children. I've noticed the rink managment does nothing to control these vicious, violent and out of control mothers (sometimes fathers) The rink managment is only interested in the amount of money you spend at the rink, the more money, the more they overlook. It's pathetic. I personally know a handful of talented skaters who had a lot of potential and were driven out of the rink. They were abused by this band of hellous woman who intwine within the rink/club. It's very sad to see something like this happen, but I guess it's just skating! ...There is a way to avoid this... DON'T GO TO SIMSBURY! and if you have to... keep to yourself. And watch your back and you child's! 8O

[dr.frog]

Would you care to name names or explain exactly how these skaters were "abused", and by whom? If you do have specific knowledge that skaters were being abused by people at the rink, you should report it to the rink management, the state child protective services, and the USFSA, not just rant about it on an internet message board. Otherwise, you just sound like you are trying to take out your own frustrations by spreading vague rumors and allegations -- which may or may not be true -- about unspecified people who may or may not have any formal association with the rink or club in question.

[Anemone]

The kinds of things that go on, dr. frog, are not things one would report to child protective services. A *lawyer* maybe.
And it will, in fact, be reported to USFSA, if it hasn't been already.

[Poohsk8s2]

Well said Platinum Angel and Anemone. I am sure that Simsbury does not stand alone in parental problems, but it makes it more biting in this circumstance because the President of the skating club, Charter Oak, is also one of the rink administrators. The best way my family found to deal with this situation was to leave the rink. It was a hard decision because it is where my skater grew up.

Let's just say that this incident with Viktor is the tip of an ugly iceberg. Thank goodness, to the best of my knowlege there is nothing illegal or abusive going on with skaters, but there is a board pushing adult agendas and the skaters are paying the consequenses. Meanwhile the management is trying to make money, as it should, but there is no loyalty to the regular customers, nor is there consideration or compromise when it comes to figure skating. As long as they have lured in the elite (with 8 hours a day of free ice), in this instance TT et al, and can use her/their reputations/results to promote the rink, then Nora Novice Skater or Joe Junior Skater doesn't stand a chance to get ice or enhance training. It is a training center for those who have already made it, not for those who may be up and coming. The sad part is that with the increased cost of ice time and the dwindling of ice availability, those remaining at Simsbury are skating to pay for the ice of the elite. (Unless of course you have a Mom who can level ice and make it available for you ;))

[Anemone]

It depends on how you define the term 'abusive.' There has not been any physical or sexual abuse to my knowledge (at least not lately), but there has certainly been emotional abuse. Not by the owners of the rink, but by parents and their children who learn from them (possibly with a wink from the powers-that-be). And though these actions may not be illegal, they are most probably actionable, in a legal sense (read: torts).

Trillian and others have written that this sort of thing seems to be common at training centers. It's hard for me to believe it goes on to the extent it does at Simsbury. If so, then USFSA has a major problem, if it is losing enormously talented individuals who could eventually bring glory to USFSA and to the country.

If anyone on this board is from USFSA (an official, not just a member), I, among others, would be interested in hearing whether USFSA is willing to address these issues, or is it viewed as something to brush under the rug?

[tristan01]

Your talking about 2 different things here,,rink actions vs parental actions. Skating parents are everywhere it is a sport. Are they any different then little league parents?? If your child skates it is your responsibility to watch out for them, if you have a problem with a specific parent go to that parent and say your peace why blame it on the rink. Now abusive problems are a different matter with coaching. And rink decisions are a different matter than that. What this sounds like is a parent with a problem with another parent and they want the rink to step in...in my experience that does not happen and maybe shouldn't. Then it would turn into the rink showing favorites with whomever comes out of the difficulty ahead. Bottom line is with the amount of money you pay for your child to skate you should have a handle on what goes on with them. And as far as Simsbury situation with ice time and favors given to certain people, it happens everywhere. How will Newington handle the transfer of people to their rink, did skaters actually leave or just coaches??

[mary]

Originally posted by PlatniumAngel
Simsbury skating moms are by far the worst skating moms I have ever come accross in my 11 years in the skating world! It's usually the parents of the skater's who spend A LOT of money and feel their child isn't getting anywhere and they take it out usually on the successful or talented children.

How are these moms "taking it out" on the successful or talented children? What are they doing exactly. Do all the poor or mediocre skaters' moms band together against the talented skaters? How are they driven away? Don't the coaches get involved here. I find it hard to believe that skating moms are this vicious. Sorry, but I need actual facts to believe this:roll:

[dr.frog]

I'm still :roll: at this brouhaha, too. So far the only concrete accusation to come out of this discussion is that the rink has reduced ice time availability for ordinary skaters. Yeah, looking at the schedule posted on the rink's web site, I can see this is true. Back 3 or 4 years ago I was skating at Simsbury fairly regularly myself, and they had open freestyles all day. OTOH, most of those mid-day sessions were practically empty; no way can the rink make a profit when there are only three or four paying customers on the ice. So I don't see how it makes much difference to the rink's income if they give some of that empty ice to Tarasova and her crew instead. If you don't like the sessions they have left, well, you're free to take your business elsewhere. It's not like Simsbury is the only rink in Connecticut!

[Anemone]

Sigh. I just want my questions answered. Here they are, again, slightly modified to account for new information: (1) Is there a U.S. training rink that works hard to keep jealous mommery, to coin a phrase, to a minimum? that has an associated club that will not tolerate what goes on at Simsbury? [At least five members of this board know exactly what I mean; if not, this doesn't affect you, and you should be grateful that it doesn't.]
(2) How does USFSA plan to address this issue so as not to lose talented skaters? [This question is addressed to any USFSA officials who read this board.]

[Skatewind]

Originally posted by Anemone
(2) How does USFSA plan to address this issue so as not to lose talented skaters? [This question is addressed to any USFSA officials who read this board.]
This is the second time you have asked this question, yet you have not specified exactly why or how you expect USFSA to become involved. From the information you have actually updated, it can't even be determined WHY the USFSA would need to become involved. The correct procedure for handling these things would be providing the club with a written letter of concern. Then if you find their response unsatisfactory & USFSA rules are indeed being broken, you have the option to file a grievance with the USFSA.

Surely you cannot believe it is a reasonable expectation for the USFSA to be expected to read some general information on a message board about how a rink is scheduling their freestyle time & know from what you have written above whether or not USFSA violations have occurred. There are standard procedures that can be followed if you have a legitimate gripe & really want USFSA involvement.

[tristan01]

I can't believe you think that the USFSA should be involved with a skating mommy issue or the scheduling of ice time. If a rink loses elite level or potential elite level skaters due to bad scheduling of ice time, how do you think that would affect the association. It is a rink issue...it happens, it is a business.

[Poohsk8s2]

IMHO I think the source of the problem lies with the dual role that one member of rink administration is playing. One role is that of the president of the club and the other as an integral figure in scheduling ice and rink operations. Perhaps I am reading it wrong from Anemone, but I think what is being asked is: Is this a conflict of interest from the stand of USFSA rulings?

Regarding the owner and Viktor, this has been a long brewing personality conflict... as I see it, the ownership seing the elite skaters as property and the skaters are looking for the realization that they are human also. From whatever side you see it, the lobby is not a place to conduct sensitive business, there are offices upstairs and down the hall.

Unfortunately the climate in Simsbury has taken an ugly and dramatic turn over the past year. What was once a mutually supportive community among the skaters, has become more about the adults pushing individual agendas through the skaters. Do you find this everywhere? I'd imagine you do, yet not to this extent. But again, this is not how it was in Simsbury... the rink's evolution has moved backwards. I'll take my business elsewhere and feel sorry for those are not able to do the same because of coaches, schedules etc.

To answer the question if the skaters have followed Galina, so far they have. Because many of them have moved to Connecticut and close to the Simsbury rink, you will see them there practicing on occasions, but lessons are in Newington. The Petrenko team is moving carefully so to put the welfare of their students first. I admire their integrity and how they are handling the situation with thought and dignity.

Meanwhile, look to Simsbury for the building of a hockey mecca.

[2skates]

I recently spoke to the General Manager of ISCC regarding ice availabilty as I too was concerned. Yes, ice is at a premium now. Hockey is booming. It is hockey season after all. The amount of ice is different now than in the spring. This is all true.

However, it was clear that the General Manager does the schedule... NOT the "Other Rink Adminstrator" a.k.a. the Marketing Director. Clearly it is not a marketing job - nor does this person appear to provide any input. The rink has been making schedules for years without her...

Additionally, to answer your specific concern...it is not against USFSA rules to have a rink employee be a member of a board of directors. Last year, I attended a club management session with my former club hosted by the USFSA. This issue was discussed in a open forum. The USFSA encouraged club/rink involvement so that better relationship are formed. Rink employees can be board members (as long as the club by-laws allow it).

I too skated in Simsbury years ago on the empty sessions which I loved! As a business person, I can not imagine that the rink would still be in business if things went on as they were. Especially since the former elite skaters were given money, ice etc!

I have been reading this thread in disbelief. The back biting done by one group of ISCC parents in the cafe is obscene. I can not stand listening to the endless bashing of the club, the Board and the rink by one small group of miserable mommies. However, I have seen also the "mommy factor" at every other rink I have skated at through my years..there seems to be a portion of the population (because of jealousy) that complains, dispareges, slanders anyone who they think has some advantage over them...get a life!

I have never seen or heard the person "with the conflict of interest" say an unkind thing about any of the skaters (club or non-club). In fact, I have seen her at competitions cheering for all club skaters including adult skaters. I see the signs in the rink wishing good luck for everyone going to regionals and other competitions. I see the endless hours of volunteering that this board gives. I am proud to be a member of Charter Oak. I have been welcomed to give input, make suggestions and become part of a supportive community.

My advice to you is go to another rink ...whatever..I am not sure how the original topic is at all related to this discussion.

[IgglesII]

Originally posted by Poohsk8s2
Regarding the owner and Viktor, this has been a long brewing personality conflict... as I see it, the ownership seing the elite skaters as property and the skaters are looking for the realization that they are human also.

Perhaps this particular skater should take a long, hard look at exactly how many of his and his family's expenses have been paid by that rink over the years - some of which are completely ridiculous considering the salaries of the people involved. That rink has heavily invested in both him and his family, through multiple ownership changes. So yeah, perhaps ownership does feel that to a degree, he owes them.

What exactly IS the problem with the Club President determining the ice schedule for figure skating? I worked at that rink 5 years ago - back in the day, when Charter Oak's "office" was the utility closet in the 2nd floor hallway, all we ever heard was complaining and whining about the ice schedule as it was programmed by the former executive director. Parent after parent would complain that the club should be setting the schedule, not the rink, because the club knew better about what the needs of its skaters were.

Well - it sounds like the club now has that power (not to mention the former executive director's office). And yet the whining continues.

I don't see why it shouldn't be turned into a hockey mecca - HOCKEY brings in $$, 3:30pm freestyle sessions where only 5 people show up most certainly do not.

[Poohsk8s2]

Although I disagree... the "brief" was written well.

[Skatewind]

Originally posted by 2skates
Additionally, to answer your specific concern...it is not against USFSA rules to have a rink employee be a member of a board of directors. Last year, I attended a club management session with my former club hosted by the USFSA. This issue was discussed in a open forum. The USFSA encouraged club/rink involvement so that better relationship are formed. Rink employees can be board members (as long as the club by-laws allow it).
This is not totally accurate. Rink employees who are in Restricted status can be club board members provided they don't constitute a majority but they cannot be club officers. Eligible coaches can now be club officers (formerly they could be board members only) as long as they are not in a Restricted classification. The previous poster asked whether the rink employee could be the club President & the answer to that is contingent on whether or not the employee is in Restricted status.

AFAIK the rule that was changed at Governing Council this year was only to allow eligible coaches to become club officers, but Eligible & Restricted status are not the same thing.

[dr.frog]

Just to reiterate what I tried to say earlier: if you think you have a legitimate grievance against this specific person, take it up directly with the USFSA through their established process instead of spreading vague rumors and accusations about "abuse" targeted at the rink, club, and other persons in general.

[Skatewind]

I agree, but I don't think people should post incomplete or misleading information regarding rules either.

[dr.frog]

Originally posted by Skatewind
I agree, but I don't think people should post incomplete or misleading information regarding rules either.

Huh? I don't know what the grievance might be, so I haven't tried to guess what rules might apply. You were the one who brought up the restricted status rules, not me.

[Skatewind]

Originally posted by dr.frog
Huh? I don't know what the grievance might be, so I haven't tried to guess what rules might apply. You were the one who brought up the restricted status rules, not me.
The question that was asked on the previous page by the poster was whether a rink employee could be an officer. The answer given above by 2skate is that a rink employee can be a member of the board. That information was not totally complete, & it is not what the original poster noted was the concern. I already noted on the previous page people should be following the protocol not updating mommy gripes on message boards demanding USFSA involvement. I did not say you personally posted something about rules, so I'm not sure what your problem with my post is when I simply tried to clarify a rule & state that it's important to be inclusive when looking at the rules.

[Poohsk8s2]

Thank-you Skatewind for your informative response. There are several club members who are looking into this conflict of interest, but the rink's job title for the President changes monthly to suit the rules. Although Marketing Director was the original job title, it was noted on the summer school brochure that there might have been a promotion that took place.

I agree that this board is not the place to air "mommy" issues, but it is a wonderful resource to explore and learn from others when there is a sense that "somethin' just ain't right." Perhaps it is just the nature of any sport when children are involved and sensitivities run high. I hope that things in Simsbury calm down... but for me the pleasure of the sport has been extinquished at that rink and I've moved on.

I just want to add one more thing regarding the salaries etc. of the Petrenko's. IMHO they earned every penny. They put Simsbury's rink on the map... their availability, approachability, the skills and talents brought to ISCC is the foundation of that training center. Otherwise it would have only been another building with ice. And I might add, they did it with genuine congeniality for those who came to the rink.

[IgglesII]

One thing I wanted to add here: the General manager and the club president have both been mentioned in several posts. I assume all of these issues have been brought to the Director of Figure Skating in Simsbury, and he's had the opportunity to respond?

[Anemone]

It's obvious there are several different themes to this thread, including ice time, conflicts of interest, etc., none of which has to do with (or maybe they do--who knows) scenarios such as the following, *not* involving *current* club officers:

What if a mother decided to take her kid out of school early to get better practice ice (better than after school) in preparation for a competition, and two club officers call the school and tell school officials it's *not* necessary to let that mother's kid out early, thus undermining the kid (and the mother)?

What if a club officer tells all new parents to watch out for a certain skater, and stay away from a certain parent, claiming that these other skaters and parents are "white trash" and "trailer trash"?

What if a group of parents spreads false, ugly, damaging rumors about various kids, and the rink management acts to stop this activity in 2000, thus acknowledging the behavior is wrong, but a slightly modified rink management does nothing in 2003?

These scenarios involve *many different children* over the course of the past several years, and they are *real.*

[Skatewind]

What if instead of posting all the "what ifs" on a message board, people would instead take the time to substantially document problem incidents with witnesses when they occur, write complaints to skating clubs at the time of such incidents, check with an attorney for information about defamation & when a cease & desist letter is in order, & research the actual rules & learn how to file a grievance when applicable?

Then there might not be a need for as many "what ifs" because either the negative activity could be stopped if it is actually happening or it would be clear what can & cannot happen under the rules & which parties (rink, club, coach, USFSA) would be directly responsible for some of these issues.

[bridgeport]

For someone who has "moved on" you certainly seem to still spend a good amount of time at the Simsbury rink.

[Poohsk8s2]

You're response is clever bridgeport, but way off base. I have not been in the rink for almost two months. However, let me remind you the skating world is very small. I said my peace before leaving, but it saddens me greatly that the circumstances at that rink made us reach the point that drove us away.

I suspect you have got the wrong person.

[IknowU]

To all disgruntled paticipants:
Lets get real here. Rinks have little power to guarantee good parental behavior. It can only respond to gross breaches – and only in the case of a clearly documented incident where the behavior is 100% indefensible. It cannot and should not get involved in the personal conflicts of individual parents (which is at the root of most problems).

Each of us hopes our children will fulfill their obviously GREAT POTENTIAL. This in spite of the fact that we each have skaters with different skating aptitudes (talent), different commitment, different lifestyles, different financial resources – in short, different opportunities available to them. Why must we immediately assume that someone “more successful” than our child must have achieved due to some unfair bias or some conspiracy against us. Could it be we all reach our level of achievement on our own – and not because the judges conspired, the coach spent more time with someone else, the other competitors harassed, the club didn’t support, the rink was too crowded?

As for the club, the board should (hopefully) provide direction for the club members. Too often board members are expected to be slaves, providing for every minute need of the membership. Board members accept the positions to SERVE, not so they can be SEVANTS (if you don’t understand the difference, this is meant for you). If anyone thinks there is some net glory or reward for being a board member, they obviously have not served on any board in their life! Since all board members are adults and all membership checks are probably signed by adults, it only follows that club decisions have “adult agendas”. However, the only “adult agenda” is have seen is geared toward trying to make the club a neutral, positive, EQUITABLE advocate for all its members. Maybe in the past you were someone in a “position of power”(or close to a former board member) and now find yourself finally on a level playing field as a result of current status. Suck it up. Participate, volunteer, make suggestions, help. Don’t throw-in-the-towel, undermine, snipe, be as big a PIA as you can.

To those so grossly offended. If you have legitimate complaints, make them to the proper people. Maybe you have - and have been dismissed. Could that be because (after evaluation) your complaints are unfounded? Maybe you have been ignored and feel your only retaliation is to leave. Then don’t let the door hit you in the backside, since you may bring more baggage with you (as a negative rink or club asset)than your patronage is worth.

To Poohsk8s2: If you want to pretend that your identity isn’t immediately known to anyone even remotely afFiliated with the rink who reads this thread, okay. You didn’t fail in your attempt to become a boaRd member. You nevEr applied for and were Denied the marketing position at the rink. You don’t continue to patronize the very rink you Despise (as recently as yesterdaY). You don’t now conspire with those you hated 2 years ago (when they were “in charge”) out of a revenge motive. You are right - that must be someone else.

[icesktrkidz]

I do not skate at Simsbury, not do I claim to know what goes on there. THIS IS NOT THE TIME FOR ANYONE TO CAUSE ANY MORE UPHEAVAL.

Children (remember them) are trying to get ready for the most important competition of the season. They do not need the added stress that this conflict is bringing on them.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by MotherSkater
...but we are truly glad to have a rink convenient and available. Now if they could make it affordable to those of us of middle class or trailer trash status, all would be well!
:oops:

i've often thought how fundamentally unfair it is to give free ice to the "elite" who are, quite frankly, getting lots of funding from usfsa, exhibitions/shows, foreign federations, sponsorships, etc (and some wealthy family members) at the expense of the broad base of skaters.

elite skaters need relatively empty ice, that's fair, but they should pay something for it---at the very least a base amount---50%---to pay the overhead of the rink for that time. they do, after all, provide a "draw" for those who are into saying they skate on the same ice as "famous name skater." but they should pay something!

and yes, hockey is the money-maker.

meanwhile, the broad-base of skaters who may be the next "elite" have a right to a peaceful, orderly, organized, and affordable opportunity to develop their talent. some of the most talented and successful skaters are not wealthy and should not be expected to do without to support a more funded "elite" skater who pays absolutely nothing for the ice time.

[Poohsk8s2]

I don't know who you THINK I am, but I have never been involved with Charter Oak, I haven't the vaguest idea about marketing and I haven't been in Simsbury for quite sometime. You obviously harbor ill feelings towards someone, but I don't know you, so don't pretend to know me.

[chachacha]

Funny....most of the truly great Russian champions managed to become champions with ZERO money - not "trailer trash", we're talking poverty.

They also became Olympic and World greats while training on freezing, substandard, and very crowded rinks. That they had unreliable transportation to. Only to find the ice closed for another day. Or, to get to skate in big competitive packs where if they couldn't move up, they had to get out.

Of course, for the most part, I understand their parents stayed out of the picture.

Hmmmmm.....This thread says so much....if only you read between the lines.

Cha Cha

[icedancer2]

Originally posted by chachacha
Funny....most of the truly great Russian champions managed to become champions with ZERO money - not "trailer trash", we're talking poverty.

They also became Olympic and World greats while training on freezing, substandard, and very crowded rinks. That they had unreliable transportation to. Only to find the ice closed for another day. Or, to get to skate in big competitive packs where if they couldn't move up, they had to get out.

Of course, for the most part, I understand their parents stayed out of the picture.

Hmmmmm.....This thread says so much....if only you read between the lines.

Cha Cha

I'm probably stating the obvious here, but these skaters were generallly funded by the Soviet Skating Federation or whatnot.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by icedancer2
I'm probably stating the obvious here, but these skaters were generallly funded by the Soviet Skating Federation or whatnot.

yes, the state provided all training. but the parents were completely excluded from the process and the young skaters frequently lived separately in groups. they all received an education, elite skaters frequently received college degrees (if they were academically strong students) or trained for other areas of employment, if their aptitude was in areas other than academics.

the skaters had no choices as to what they wanted to do. bunches of little skaters were hopeful. if they were selected from the initial groups, they could recieve more training. as they progressed, they were sorted by specific talents, abilities, and body types. pairs and dance teams were put together by the coaches. coaches were well trained in all aspects of skating by the state.

if a skater failed to progress, they left the program. if they didn't work hard enough, there were a dozen others ready to take their place.

the skating/training conditions were as described---rinks of poor quality, crowded, limited ice time. generally, elite soviet skaters spent much less time on the ice than western skaters, but they trained harder and smarter off the ice.

a number of former soviet skaters, now coaches, have described the soviet process for developing talent. it wasn't cruel as a whole (although some coaches were verbally abusive as a training tactic to make skaters work harder). the skaters were treated well, and the elite and their families honored. male skaters were respected by the general population (whereas here they are often harrassed at school).

so i think the comment is appropriate, and the point that was being made quite valid. at least in the old soviet system ALL the skaters had free ice, the beginners and the elite.

[Poohsk8s2]

Motherskater, I am so sorry! My post was directed to IknowU, who obviously has mistaken me for someone else, registered on this board to comment, and finished their remarks with a some sort of personal attack. C'est la vie!

[Anemone]

Skatewind, Thank you very much for your thoughtful, clear, and informative responses to my and other posters' posts.

I do have one idea that USFSA might entertain. Would it be possible for USFSA to start a Zero Tolerance program the way that youth hockey did? That might be healthy and helpful.

[Skatewind]

The USFSA has a pretty clear code of conduct policy for it's athletes that is more appropriate for figure skating activities. Then a few years ago they added the additional policy which also covers all non-athletes (coaches, parents, officials, volunteers, etc) involved in an activity. The youth hockey Zero Tolerance policy applies the actual penalty during the game when the behavior occurs. But that would be difficult to implement in something like a figure skating competition, where there are different stages of the event from the warm up to the results posting. If there is a perception that the code of conduct is not being enforced, then the first place to look is to see whether incidents are being documented & reported as needed, and then take it from there.

[sk8ergirl]

Wow, in reading all the goings on at this rink, I am glad I skate in Canada! The club where I skate is great, good combination of competitive skaters, and some very good coaches, and the atmosphere is very cordial. If even half the things said about this facility is true, I feel sorry for those who have to skate there!

[Anemone]

MotherSkater, I am sure you meant only to support Simsbury in your comments and did not at all mean to offend anyone, but I must say I find highly offensive your referring to actual acts of harm to children as soap operas. There is a world of difference between whining over small slights and being righteously concerned about serious negative behavior. I'm sure that you, as a mother, can perceive and understand that difference.

[IknowU]

Life at a rink is no different than life in general. You can't protect your kids from LIFE! Why expect the rink to be a Utopia when the world outside isn't. We grow from our unpleasant experiences as well as the pleasant ones. Our "character" is the result of all life's experiences, not just the good. Don't let negative people set the tone for you. They can only bother you if you let them.

[what?meworry?]

i'm curious. this exchange has gone on for quite a while.
is this primarily the freeskaters and parents?

i thought many of the top dance teams were there. are they separated from this controversy or are they embroiled in it as well.

just who are the elite skaters here (freestylers and dancers)?

[what?meworry?]

i asked it above and will copy it here:

"i'm curious. this exchange has gone on for quite a while.
is this primarily the freeskaters and parents?

i thought many of the top dance teams were there. are they separated from this controversy or are they embroiled in it as well.

just who are the elite skaters here (freestylers and dancers)?"

surely you know who the elite skaters are at the simsbury rink!
i'm not asking about the greater community, only the "elite." i don't know how to be any more specific: does this controversy involve the elite skaters or is it confined to the non-elite (or "pending-elite" if you prefer. i doubt you spend the normal amount of time at simsbury and keep your head, ostrich-like, in a hole in the sand and have no idea who the elite are. and since you seem to know so much about the controversy, and write such lengthly posts, i would think you would know who is there.

[what?meworry?]

for someone who says you're not paying much attention to what's going on around you, you sure do post really long commentaries.

so, is your answer regarding the controversies at your rink that you do not know who is involved, that is, you do not know if any of the elite skaters are involved? but that only the lower range skaters are involved?
are you also saying that you really don't know who the elilte skaters are who skate at your rink?

saying you stay out of it is one thing, being ignorant of the situation you're talking about is another.

[Stevie]

:lol: :lol: :lol:


that was very well said (I think)

[Jess-ka]

Originally posted by Stevie
:lol: :lol: :lol:


that was very well said (I think)
herehere! Go MotherSkater! **claps**

[what?meworry?]

i asked WHO the ELITE skaters were and IF they were being dragged into the mess. not the names of the developmental skaters (and obviously their parents) embroiled at the center of the issue. the elite skaters at your rink surely are not annonymous.

such chaos as seems to be going on there is detrimental to training. an enormous amount of energy is wasted.

the odds are that if the elite are being drawn into this they will end up leaving sooner rather than later. this is something your rink management really needs to be concerned about, for it will destroy the program from the inside out eventually.

in its heyday, delaware was a brilliant training facility, but deteriorated because of similar internal conflicts that affected the quality of training.

dsc internal conflict has made a mess for the skaters, starting more than several years ago, but was more related to coach stuff, not parent stuff.

your situation as presented, seems one of the worst i've ever heard of and will very likely do serious damage to the program.

if the elite skaters are being bothered by it, it can affect their training and success.

sometimes, the smartest thing elite level training centers can do is ban the parents who are at the heart of the conflict and who won't modify their behaviours, from the rink.
the skaters need a peaceful, productive environment to train. any "kid stuff" can be handled much more easily.

[what?meworry?]

just to satisfy my curiosity about who the "elite" skaters are at simsbury, i checked the athlete bios of the skaters listed in the usfsa team envelopes: http://www.usfsa.org/team/athletes.htm

lang/tchnyshev (dance) list: nikoli morozov - newington, conn. (?)
appel/harris (pairs) list: nikoli - newington, conn. (?)
gregory/pet. (dance) list: nikoli - simsbury, conn. (?)
orscher/lucash (pairs) lists: simsbury, conn. with naumov (and morozov as choreographer).
weir (fs) lists: simsbury, conn (part time with tarasova)
cohen (fs) lists: simsbury, conn with tarasova

and i remember the big discussion about wester/barantsev (who can't compete this season, and who are seniors but not categorized as "elite") working with nikoli---their ice-dance.com interview lists nikoli at cisc (newington, conn).

so, is nikoli morozov at newington (cisc?) or simsbury?

are there also elite skaters from other countries training at simsbury?

[Smiley0084]

OK, wow, for all the times I've been to Simsbury, there hasn't been any drama at all! then again, I'm no "insider" so what do I know?

What?meworry? This woman is just a skating mom who brings her daughter to the rink, and goes there to enjoy her daughter skate, and not take part in some idle gossip. Simple as that. If idle gossip is what you are looking for, why don't you tell it to someone who cares.

[what?meworry?]

then what's all this stuff on this thread? and why did she jump in to answer a general question i tossed out?

please reread my request (to quote myself):

"... asked WHO the ELITE skaters were and IF they were being dragged into the mess. not the names of the developmental skaters (and obviously their parents) embroiled at the center of the issue. the elite skaters at your rink surely are not annonymous..."

i'm asking for factual information here. "who are the elite skaters currently training at simsbury?"

the opionion part is "are they being dragged into the (aparent) mess?"

while you're at it, could you clear up my confusion (from the list of athlete bios above) as to where morozov is with his skaters?

anyone at simsbury can jump in and answer that set of questions.

[Trillian]

Originally posted by what?meworry?
while you're at it, could you clear up my confusion (from the list of athlete bios above) as to where morozov is with his skaters?

Morozov is based in Newington, not Simsbury. His skaters may spend some time on the ice in Simsbury, but I don't think he coaches there. Likewise, Mathew Gates, who has a promising novice dance team (Weaver & Clavey), is based in Newington IIRC.

Simsbury's top U.S. skaters are Sasha Cohen and Katie Orscher & Garrett Lucash, and there's also the rest of Tarasova's group, mostly international. (Can't think of any others who compete in the U.S., but maybe I'm forgetting someone.) Naumov has a few other skaters but no one especially well-known. There are a couple of skaters who are contenders regionally, including Tiffany St. Bernard, who has been one of the top senior ladies in club competitions on the East Coast this season. She trains with Zmievskaya, so presumably would be going with Zmievskaya if she left.

I'd be surprised if the big-name skaters are getting involved in whatever all this fuss is about--a lot of them don't even compete for the U.S., and as far as Cohen, Orscher, and Lucash are concerned, I don't see any connection.

[what?meworry?]

thank you!
unfortunately, at other places in the past, the elite have been negatively affected. but there isn't as much of a crowd of usa elite as i had thought might be there. reassuring.

[Jaana]

Bringing this old thread up, as I´m rather curious to hear whether Petrenko has moved back to Simsbury? Or is he still training in Newington?

Marjaana

[Poohsk8s2]

Petrenko is touring, His wife, Nina is finishing up work with her students and Galina is doing the same. Galina uses the Newington rink as her primary rink now. They have signed a contract with a new rink in Jersey, and anticipate moving by Spring. Viktor's brother is undecide whether or not to follow. So with TAT's departure, all that is left in Simsbury is Vadim Naumov and his wife. Alexei Yagudin is supposed to do some sort of summer seminar, but that is about it. It is sad to see the Petrenko family leave, they have given so much to the rink, but more importantly, the local community.

[Mel1977]

This really has nothing to do with the topic, but I was at Simsbury in August for State Games of America and had the chance to see Sasha, Johnny Wier, and Alexi Yagudin practice after I finished a late practice ice, and it was such an amazing thing to experience. I have about 20 minutes of it on video, and had my picture taken with Alexi before his practice.

Being from Wisconsin, I have no idea what the club/rink politics are like there, but I was honored to have gotten the chance to compete at such a famous rink, and to see three of my favorite skaters practice.

It's kind of sad to hear that that rink isn't what it once was in the early 90's.

Just my 2 insignificant cents!