skaters' rankings

[lutzskate]

Have the skaters' rankings been decided yet? Is there a site that has their rank? Or does that START this year?

[MaryS999]

The ISU site (http://www.isu.org) has this information. I think the link there is "world rankings."

SkateFan2

[lutzskate]

Thank you! :)

[Schmeck]

This proves to me that the ISU is full of idiots - top four ladies are

1. Irina
2. Sasha
3. Viktoria V.
4. Michelle

Irina, who did not even compete at Worlds this year???
Sasha, who finished off the podium at Worlds two years in a row (although she did fantastic in the GP this year)
Viktoria, ????
and then Michelle - who won Worlds, was on the podium last year, won SA, etc..

Is this the ISU's way of punishing Michelle for not doing the complete GP series?

[Steffi]

The ISU World Rankings count points for four things: best results at an ISU championship, top two Grand Prix or GP Final placements for that year, and results at any "Selected International Competition". The selected interntionals include meets like Nebelhorn, Finlandia, etc. that few of the top competitors compete in.

Anyway, for the ISU championship points, this can be your best performance at Worlds, Europeans, or 4CC. Therefore, Irina doesn't really lose out in any big way since her points from last year come from her results at Europeans (I believe she won). I think the points given for worlds are a bit higher, but anyways.

Michelle also lost out because she only competed in one GP, whereas everyone else got points from two GPs. Additionally, the points given from the GPF are higher than the points from a regular GP. For instance, Sasha counts 800 points for her win at the GPF whereas Michelle only counts 400 points for her win at Skate America.

Those are the main causes of the rankings being the way they are.

[Mayra]

Originally posted by Schmeck


Is this the ISU's way of punishing Michelle for not doing the complete GP series?

How is this a punishment for Michelle?

This isn't the ISU's favorite skaters list. Its a ranking list based on overall results throughout the season that take into account all of the ISU championships, including the grand prix's and worlds. If you miss half of it, a skater should expect half the points.

[Schmeck]

What I mean is, why does the GP count so much towards the rankings, when not all the top skaters in the world compete at each event? And how can someone, who didn't even show up at Worlds (although her reason is very valid, and very honorable) be ranked #1???

I see this as the ISU's way of controlling the skaters, and since Michelle has chosen not to pander to them, they have devised a system to belittle her accomplishments.

Schmeck, who just sees the GP as a money maker for the ISU, or on the level of a pro/am, and not all that important in rankings/standings

edited to add: I am not just a michelle fan, I am a fan of all figure skating, and I do believe the ISU is a bunch of idiots, not just for their ranking system, but for most of their decisions that they have made in the past... :roll:

[castalinas]

With all due respect, Michelle is going to have to attend more events and up her techs. Not so much for American placement at the next Nats ( Worlds will be harder this year) but because of two things- the new scoring system which will be in place this year and most of all, the Japanese skaters who are fabulus and are doing much harder jumps. Speedy has been accused of being jump obssessed but I for one , think he is right.

[Steffi]

With regards to the GP, the GP is a huge part of the skating season. If you didn't count the GP, than all that you would have left is worlds. Plus, points for GPs are much lower than for events like Worlds anyway. A win at a GP is worth 400 points, whereas a win at worlds is worth 1200 points. Even a win at the GPF is worth 800 points.

As for Irina being allowed to count Euros instead of worlds, if the ISU counted both worlds and a regional championship (Euros, 4CC) separately, then the US ladies would always lose out, since none of the top ones ever go to Four Continents.

It's a bit much to expect someone who only competes at worlds and one GP (and wins both) to gain more points than someone who wins Euros, places 2nd at the GPF, and 2nd at two GPs or someone who wins the GPF, two GPs, and places only three spots below her at worlds.

I doubt Michelle cares about the rankings, anyway, and obviously it is her who is choosing to only selectively participate in events.

[Smiley0084]

Originally posted by Bondo
Could have fooled me.

And what if he/she is? Have you set out to lynch all the Kwan fans? For all the complaining the Sasha fans do (and I love sasha too, but not crazy enough to get into 10 page Kwan-Cohen wars) about MK not doing GP, where's your complaints about Sasha not doing 4CC? Why can't people just live their lives? MK is not doing GP, get over it. I'm sure Sasha isn't losing any sleep.

[castalinas]

Again with all due respect, it really doesn't matter because when they get to Worlds, it's pretty much over this year unless some American girl has somehow morphed herself into Midori Ito. lol.

[Smiley0084]

Originally posted by castalinas
Again with all due respect, it really doesn't matter because when they get to Worlds, it's pretty much over this year unless some American girl has somehow morphed herself into Midori Ito. lol.
:?: *confused*

[ceceB]

Could someone please post the rankings? My computer is having trouble with that site (damn thing :evil: ).

Thank you!:D

[Schmeck]

I understand why Michelle is not ranked #1 in this ranking system, and I agree that it is because she did not compete in many events last year.

What I was trying to point out was that I believe Worlds is a more valid competition than all the GP lumped together, since it involves all of the top skaters (most of the time, anyways) while the GP usually has 1-3 top skaters at each event, and some events have lower level skaters and only 1 high level skater. This system just seems skewed towards the GP events, giving them more significance than I think they deserve. I know they are weighted, and that the skater gets more points for winning at Worlds compared to GP, but I think the individual GP events should be weighted by who is competing at them.

Schmeck, out of this topic for good, because posters like Bondo are too willing to make this a 'you're a rabid Michelle fan' excuse, instead of allowing for intelligent conversation

[Jaana]

Originally posted by Schmeck
What I was trying to point out was that I believe Worlds is a more valid competition than all the GP lumped together, since it involves all of the top skaters (most of the time, anyways) while the GP usually has 1-3 top skaters at each event, and some events have lower level skaters and only 1 high level skater.

GP and GP finals are big part of the skating season and all top skaters are supposed to compete in them. If a top skater is not participating in at least two GP competitions and the GP Final (where ALL top skaters will meet), the skater´s ranking result is not the fault of the ranking system, in my opinion. I would say that 400 points per win in a GP competition and 800 for win in GP finals is fair towards those skaters who are doing the whole season.

Marjaana

[Kabooke]

Call it a hunch,
but I don't think Michelle's
all that broken up about it!;)

[castalinas]

Bondo, I totally agree with you on every point. Also I think this year will usher in a new era in figure skating. True skating fans will no longer have to suffer skaters being held up year after year. I am excited about the up coming season.

[icyboid]

The rankings does award participation greatly...check out the Men's rankings.

Takeshi Honda is 2nd. ;)

[bunghodog]

I agree kabooke she is world champion and national champion, those rankings don't mean much when you have a gold medal in your hand.

[susan6]

"It was more a question of whether the rankings are accurate in showing who has been best the past two seasons."

And the answer to this question is clearly, "no, they're not accurate." In a ranking of the "best" athletes, the possibility of one athlete beating another should be taken into account somehow. As far as I know (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), Victoria and Sasha have never beaten Michelle when they met in competition over the past two years. Yes, they competed in more competitions and won when Michelle wasn't there. But every time they compete against her, Sasha and Victoria have not been able to place ahead of her.

There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics.

[lutzskate]

Can someone explain just what the rankings are going to be used for? Thanks in advance. :)

[Mayra]

Originally posted by lutzskate
Can someone explain just what the rankings are going to be used for? Thanks in advance. :)

The rankings are going to be used to provide endless minutes of entertainment to overzealous fans during the off season, who in turn are going to dissect "what the rankings really mean" and whether they were meant to "punish Michelle".

Aren't they fun?
8-)

[bunghodog]

points are all well taken.

[HSF]

Some criteria must be established to determine world rankings. All any organization can do is use the criteria they think will yield the most accurate results. Placement at various events in skating competitions seems to be a reasonable consideration to me.

Skating is not the only sport that leaves fans frustrated with the world rankings. In ladies tennis, two Belgium ladies are ranked #1 and #2. The #1 ranked player has never won a Grand Slam competition and the #2 player won 2 Grand Slams this year. However many tennis fans would argue that the William’s sisters are #1 and #2.

Men’s golf world rankings are even more frustrating if you’re not a Tiger Woods fan. Tiger has such a commanding lead that he would have to have 2 or 3 miserable years in a row for anyone to overtake him. For the first time in years, the “Golfer of the Year” award is up for grabs with 4-5 golfers in contention but Tiger has played well enough to maintain his awesome lead in the world rankings.

The ISU, WTA, and PGA all tried to select criteria that would reflect the most accurate rankings possible. I can’t find fault with the criteria they used so I have to accept the results whether I like them or not. These organizations are not manipulating statistics, they are rewarding performance.

[person2003]

Originally posted by castalinas
Again with all due respect, it really doesn't matter because when they get to Worlds, it's pretty much over this year unless some American girl has somehow morphed herself into Midori Ito. lol.

well before nebelhorn I would have agreed with you, but after seeing Don win for pretty much skating the cleanest without all the jumps, the u.s. ladies will stiii ne head to head with the Russians and JAPS. It seems to me that even with all the jumps your not a show in for a win, everything has to be clean.