Nebelhorn Reports and Results [Archive]

IceDanceSk8er

09-04-2003, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by cygnus
Results are up for the CDs. Can anyone figure them out with the new COP system? I have no idea what they mean..... http://www.isufs.org/events/nt03/seg007.htm

I'm new to this just as everyone else, but if you look at the scores for the Austrian Waltz, the abbreviations after the country are as follows:

TSS - Total Segment Score (determines the leader)
TES - Total Element Score

TI - Timing
PF - Performance
IN - Interpretation

I haven't figured out what StN is yet

Sylvia

09-04-2003, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by IceDanceSk8er
I haven't figured out what StN is yet

This is an old abbreviation ;) -- Start number (order of skate).

IceDanceSk8er

09-04-2003, 01:02 PM

Did GREBENKINA & AZROJAN withdraw?

melbo

09-04-2003, 01:50 PM

Yes, it says that they did withdraw.

I am :D for the Kerrs! I am :cry: for Doherty & Myles though... I am wondering if Christie Moxley has more rocktastique pink dresses because if she has another one like last year, I would place them third for that alone. ;)

Anyway...I'll be looking forward to hearing reports and I am NERVOUS for pairs! Gooooooooooo Seb!

Canskater

09-04-2003, 02:38 PM

. Name Nation Total Score SP FS
Good for Canada thus far, even without Fedor.

1 Nicholas YOUNG CAN 69.02 1
2 Scott SMITH USA 60.82 2
3 Nicholas LAROCHE USA 58.01 3
4 Alexei VASILEVSKI RUS 57.08 4
5 Vincent RESTENCOURT FRA 56.24 5
6 Filip STILLER SWE 54.41 6
7 Gregor URBAS SLO 53.67 7
8 Trifun ZIVANOVIC SCG 52.68 8
9 Ari-Pekka NURMENKARI FIN 48.91 9
10 Frederik PAULS GER 47.96 10
11 Maciej KUS POL 47.36 11
12 Noriyuki KANZAKI JPN 45.31 12
13 Mikko MINKKINEN FIN 44.68 13
14 Kristoffer BERNTSSON SWE 43.11 14
15 Martin LIEBERS GER 42.52 15
16 Clemens BRUMMER GER 41.85 16
17 Aidas REKLYS LTU 33.44 17

-- sheilagh

melbo

09-04-2003, 02:43 PM

I have to admit...I definitely didn't think that Nicholas Young would be in first after the short. And I'm not sure what those points mean, but that's an awfully large margin! Go Canada...too bad Fedor isn't there...I bet he would have cleaned up if his programs were on. Does anyone know why he's not there? Did I miss that?

Ugh...pairs should be wrapping up, I think...nine short programs and three warm-ups - I don't think that should take more than two hours. I'm going to die of a heart attack if we don't get results, like, now.

:frus:

mkhouse

09-04-2003, 02:55 PM

On the Nebelhorn main page, there's a link to officials for each event and it's listing nation for each. Will this be for all events with the new system now or is it just for Nebelhorn?

Tony Wheeler

09-04-2003, 02:57 PM

If this doesn't hint Skate Canada in on sending Nic to at least one Grand Prix event (which he already earned, anyways), I don't know what will. Great job!

Tony Wheeler

09-04-2003, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by mkhouse
On the Nebelhorn main page, there's a link to officials for each event and it's listing nation for each. Will this be for all events with the new system now or is it just for Nebelhorn?

This year, this event and the six stops of the Grand Prix series plus the Final, are using the new system- and I do think we will see the judges/nationalities, since their individual marks aren't included ;)

Edited because I've now read that the GPFinal will use the CoP.. originally I thought that wasn't the plan..

Canskater

09-04-2003, 03:42 PM

Somebody over at FSU just posted these ... though there is still nothing at IceCalc ..... way to go Canada!!

1. Wakamatsu/Fecteau 50.75 Can
2. Handy/Allen 47.27 USA
3. Bergeron/Davidson 46.02 USA
4. Kierkgaard/Jeschke 43.24 Ger
5. Spielberg/Joeright 42.98 USA
6. Noenning/Bleyer 42.52 Ger
7. Kuzmina/Evdokimov 42.06 Rus
8. Brozovic/Futas 37.49 Svk
9. Fitze/Rex 34.47 Ger!!

-- sheilagh

melbo

09-04-2003, 03:44 PM

;oudifhaskjfaslifduawklerjbhasdjgasidfuhad

OH MY GOSH I LOVE HIM.

cygnus

09-04-2003, 04:16 PM

Originally posted by Canskater
Somebody over at FSU just posted these ... though there is still nothing at IceCalc ..... way to go Canada!!

1. Wakamatsu/Fecteau 50.75 Can
2. Handy/Allen 47.27 USA
3. Bergeron/Davidson 46.02 USA
4. Kierkgaard/Jeschke 43.24 Ger
5. Spielberg/Joeright 42.98 USA
6. Noenning/Bleyer 42.52 Ger
7. Kuzmina/Evdokimov 42.06 Rus
8. Brozovic/Futas 37.49 Svk
9. Fitze/Rex 34.47 Ger!!

-- sheilagh

It's even better for Canada than it looks here, since #3 Bergeron and Davison, are from Canada, not the US. I'm surprised at #9, though. They must have had a VERY bad skate. 4-7 are very close - les than 2 points between them.

Lynn226

09-04-2003, 04:35 PM

Congratulations to Nic Young. Perhaps, now, SC will send him to a GP event. Being on the National Team, he should have been assigned to one.

melbo

09-04-2003, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by Bondo
I think the CoP has had remarkable effects on unity...all skaters, and fans of all levels seemingly are united in having no clue what the scores really mean ;)

Hahaha, this is true!

And Fitze & Rex apparently had a scary fall out of a lift. (I find this interesting since they are coached by Ingo Steuer...)

According to USFSA, Spielberg & Joeright had trouble on the double twist (which is surprising) and she fell on the 3toe (which unfortunately is not surprising). Handy & Allen had a clean skate. Wakamatsu fell on the throw...but were well ahead of Handy & Allen, so they must be simply rocktastique.

(Of course, I have known this for quite some time ;))

I can't wait to see what Skate Canada does with the remaining assignments after this!

skatey

09-04-2003, 09:06 PM

Youch for Larisa and Craig, YAY for Tako and Seb, a great big EEK for Mikkeline and Norman (I miss her!), and crossed fingers that Jeremy is as worthy a partner for Laura as Paul was and I get to see Laura at Nationals, since I've missed seeing her the past couple years!

melbo

09-04-2003, 10:09 PM

KATES I MISS YOU! :-*

Three cheers for Seb, woo woo woo, that's three for one... ;)

A.H.Black

09-04-2003, 11:06 PM

1 Nicholas YOUNG CAN 69.02 1
2 Scott SMITH USA 60.82 2

With a difference of more than 8 points it will be interesting now to see how many points can be made up or lost between the short program and the free. This may not be the competition where it happens but it will still be interesting to see how the points for the long compare. Only time will tell if 8 points is a lot or not.

SpeechOfFigure

09-05-2003, 05:45 AM

1 Nicholas YOUNG CAN 69.02 1
2 Scott SMITH USA 60.82 2

I am wondering whether Scott's new short program does much for him. To my untrained eyes the program looked more like disconnected elements skated to percussive music that has little thematic content...

SoF

sk8pics

09-05-2003, 06:15 AM

Originally posted by skatey
and crossed fingers that Jeremy is as worthy a partner for Laura as Paul was and I get to see Laura at Nationals, since I've missed seeing her the past couple years!
Well, Jeremy is a former national junior pairs champion and I'm thinking he medaled at junior worlds, too, but maybe not. Anyway, I've been impressed with this team each time I've seen them skate. Jeremy is a very consistent jumper and seems like a good partner, too. Congratulations to them on a clean short program!

Pat

roza

09-05-2003, 08:14 AM

Deleted post. I didn't see Pennskater's thread.

victorskid

09-05-2003, 08:36 AM

Don't get too excited about the results you have seen so far folks - apparently the ISU has admitted that there was a problem with the calculations and there are errors in the results.

Can we all say "sekret computer"?!?

As you've probably already discovered, the online results page is no longer operating. There is just an announcement that it is not currently online :(

I certainly hope that someone who is there can fill us in on what is happening!

Skatewind

09-05-2003, 09:21 AM

Nebelhorn Day 1 from USFSA (http://www.usfsa.org/news/2003-04/nebelhorn-day1recap.htm?siteid=983)

Says Scott Smith did quad-double for his combo rather than a planned quad-triple

Trillian

09-05-2003, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by sk8pics
Well, Jeremy is a former national junior pairs champion and I'm thinking he medaled at junior worlds, too, but maybe not.

He and Debbie Blinder were fifth at junior worlds in 2001, and ironically missed making the JGP Final that season. (I say "ironically" because based on overall results they were our second best junior international pair that season, yet even though half the field at the JGP Final was comprised of U.S. teams, they weren't one of them.) The first time I saw Jeremy skate was back when he was in novice in '98, and even then he impressed me as having a lot of potential. He and Laura have the disadvantage of being very close in terms of height, but so far it doesn't seem to be causing major problems in their results.

Granted, I'd be inclined to say he's no Paul Binnebose, but I'd say that about just about every American male pairs skater--I thought Paul was a gigantic talent. Jeremy is certainly one of the better guys out there and hopefully this partnership proves to be a good thing for both him and Laura. It would be nice if she seemed to have regained some of the competitive fire that's been missing over the last few years.

ClevelandDancer

09-05-2003, 11:56 AM

The Men's event is finished and it seems we can already see a difference between the old and the new. Just using the old SP one third/LP two thirds, we have a reversal in the top two spots:

1. Nicolas Young, CAN SP: 1 LP: 2
2. Scott Smith, USA SP: 2 LP: 1

Assuming that all skaters would have had the same relative rankings in the SP and LP, under the old system Smith would have won. Instead, Young was far enough ahead of him in the SP that it didn't matter that he finished second in the LP. I didn't do the math but the rest of the placements look more or less the same as they would under the old system with the same relative placement assumption.

bcskater

09-05-2003, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by ClevelandDancer
The Men's event is finished and it seems we can already see a difference between the old and the new. Just using the old SP one third/LP two thirds, we have a reversal in the top two spots:

1. Nicolas Young, CAN SP: 1 LP: 2
2. Scott Smith, USA SP: 2 LP: 1

where did you pick up these results? and if the mens free is done... what are the results to the ladies? a link or anything?

ClevelandDancer

09-05-2003, 12:30 PM

Someone posted this link under the ladies results thread:

http://www.isufs.org/events/fsevent00006860.htm

ClevelandDancer

09-05-2003, 03:08 PM

Holy heck, the OD is done now and you should check out the link above to see all the movement. It's interesting that there are only 4.36 points between 1st and 6th (74.42 and 71.06), the team in 7th is just below that at 69.00, then a gap of 8.11 for the next bunch. The 11th (last) place team seems to have that spot all wrapped up as they are another 7.50 points behind the 10th place team.

Or, maybe this will explain it better:

123456_7________8___9__10_______11

That is the relative placement scorewise right now. I guess that's an advantage of the new system, we can draw pictures!
:twisted:

AnnieD

09-05-2003, 04:35 PM

Originally posted by Melbo
I am :D for the Kerrs!

Me too Mel! I told ya they were fab!

Go Sinead and John in the free dance!!!!

skatey

09-05-2003, 06:17 PM

Originally posted by Trillian
He and Debbie Blinder were fifth at junior worlds in 2001, and ironically missed making the JGP Final that season. (I say "ironically" because based on overall results they were our second best junior international pair that season, yet even though half the field at the JGP Final was comprised of U.S. teams, they weren't one of them.) The first time I saw Jeremy skate was back when he was in novice in '98, and even then he impressed me as having a lot of potential. He and Laura have the disadvantage of being very close in terms of height, but so far it doesn't seem to be causing major problems in their results.

Granted, I'd be inclined to say he's no Paul Binnebose, but I'd say that about just about every American male pairs skater--I thought Paul was a gigantic talent. Jeremy is certainly one of the better guys out there and hopefully this partnership proves to be a good thing for both him and Laura. It would be nice if she seemed to have regained some of the competitive fire that's been missing over the last few years.

Thanks so much for that information! I didn't know much about his background, so it'll be exciting to see how they do this season. And I agree taht Paul was a huge talent. One of those things that just drives you crazy.

I MISS YOU TOO MEL!

IceDanceSk8er

09-05-2003, 08:07 PM

Way to go Scott! He's one of the nicest guy's you'll ever meet.

leap of faith

09-05-2003, 08:30 PM

Although he totally deserves it I don't see how Nic Young can get a GP unless someone pulls out. The only event Canada doesn't have anyone is SA and there's 12 competitors already so the spots are filled. Curses to the ISU for going by world rankings this year!

A.H.Black

09-06-2003, 09:04 AM

Well folks, after looking at the final results for both ladies and mens I have the following inpressions -

Things are going to be different this year!

- It's better to skate clean than to try harder stuff and fall
- Good technique is a must.
- Choreography and artistry do count
- Spins and moves in the field and footwork are more important
- Short programs are even more important and a skater can build up an almost insurmountable lead with good technique and presentation skills

Of couse this is just one competition. We don't know what difference the person "calling" will have over time. It's going to be an interesting year.

I bet they tweek it a lot next year, if not before.

butterfly

09-06-2003, 09:40 AM

Originally posted by A.H.Black
Well folks, after looking at the final results for both ladies and mens I have the following inpressions -

Things are going to be different this year!

- It's better to skate clean than to try harder stuff and fall
- Good technique is a must.
- Choreography and artistry do count
- Spins and moves in the field and footwork are more important
- Short programs are even more important and a skater can build up an almost insurmountable lead with good technique and presentation skills

Of couse this is just one competition. We don't know what difference the person "calling" will have over time. It's going to be an interesting year.

I bet they tweek it a lot next year, if not before. I think I agree with most everything you said. I will add that compulsories may be more important than ever and the free dance or long program may hold less importance than in the past. Having said all that, I don't understand this new system enough to evaluate :??

Dreamer

09-06-2003, 10:21 AM

Woooohoooo!! Great season beginner for Lesley Hawker!!

Mayra

09-06-2003, 04:19 PM

Congratulations to Nick LaRoche on his bronze medal! He deserves it and here's hoping its the start of a great skating season for him.

:)

jeb

09-07-2003, 08:02 AM

http://www.isufs.org/events/nt03/index.htm

This gives the more detailed breakdown of the marks, but I can't interpret all of the short forms in for the elements.

Lise

09-07-2003, 11:18 AM

I just came up from looking at the marks-it's actually a little clear. Good technique seems to be rewarded, and there are 2 major components-the elements and the program. Even if you don't land all your jumps, if your program is well done, you will still be up there. I was curious as what happened to Amber Corwin, since she was a favorite going in, and after reading what she had completed, she doubled most of her jumps.

This season is going to be pretty interesting. I can hardly wait for SA and SC!!!

Anybody know if they will be using this judging methods at Canadians?

Tony Wheeler

09-07-2003, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by Lise
Anybody know if they will be using this judging methods at Canadians?

No, they will use the normal 9 judge panels with ordinals.

RizzleRed

09-07-2003, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by Lise
I was curious as what happened to Amber Corwin, since she was a favorite going in, and after reading what she had completed, she doubled most of her jumps.

Actually Amber didn't double the jumps, the caller called them as too cheated (more than 1/4) and therefore as over-rotated doubles. What's a bit strange about this is that one of the jumps that was called as a double was described by James Cowling as 'a nice triple lutz' Also 2 of the triples she fell on were called as doubles (salchow & toe). The caller knows that these 2 jumps were planned as triples, so as well as falling on them, she cheated them so badly that they were only counted as doubles????

Me thnks that the caller was overly harsh on Amber.