Did the five returnees all set personal bests? Did their scores rise or fall?

I would assume that, given the economy, all competitors would be more aggressive in their preparation than previous years. That would hold true for the eight "new" competitors, who may have competed in another event last year or might be new to AN entirely.

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Agreed. Isn't there talk that the ISU is going to make spirals part of the PCS scores and not a point-getting element? I do hope they do this. Skaters who are not naturally flexible are at an automatic disadvantage, and that doesn't seem right to me.

Word to that entire post, Rachel. Those sweeper girls earned the warning we were given about tossies ...

ISk8NYC, Don't know everyones personal history but most of the competitors have been in and out of AN for a # of years. I think only a few true new Gold Champ sk8ers

Versperholly, Totally agree with you! Doubles (which I can't do) are way underrated relative to spirals. IMHO, step sequences are also underrated.

No, I'm not advocating sloppiness (actually, I'm not really advocating anything - just musing). The disappearance of cheated doubles in Gold is a good thing about IJS, IMO.

My thought about the risk reward was piggybacked on the argument in the elite world about rewarding risks for quads in giving the quad more points so that doing it is worth more than a 3A-3T. Same idea here, making an axel worth more than a 1S-1L.

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I agree with you then. I'd love to see the technical difficulty of programs increase as long as it was realistic and not encouraging unprepared attempts. I just don't want to see Wishes on Ice and it's sequel, Splats R Us.

I also think that doubles should be worth more than spirals at the same levels. Making them PCS only would just discard spirals though. Why "waste" the program time on a spiral sequence unless it was required, when an extra jump combination would help you win more easily?

Just mho.

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Maybe adult nationals needs a bonus ala Russian Nationals. (Men who attempted triple axels or quads got an extra point). You just have to determine what the bonus should be for.

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True. And me subjecting the poor audience and officials to my not-so-flexible spirals just for the sake of points doesn't seem right other.

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On the other hand, skaters who have beautiful spirals but are jump-challenged would be at a disadvantage if the scoring changed.

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Spent Sunday watching all the Silver Men and all the Bronze Ladies. You guys did an amazing job—I was impressed by each and every one of you. It looked like so much fun! Ladies, you looked gorgeous; I thought your outfits were beautiful (I can’t help myself, I’m like my cats, I love shiny things). What a supportive crowd, too. I’m trying to convince my husband to do ANs in the near future instead of our regular vacation. Your evident camaraderie helps me make my case. Thanks to all who skated and who cheered.

But you don't necessarily need to be a total Gumby to get good levels on a spiral sequence. The top 6 girls in Gold I got at least a level 2; Elaine even got a 4 and none of them were as flexible as say, Sasha Cohen. Looking at Gold II and III, there were many many spiral sequences called a level 2 and above. Even if you're completely spiral challenged, you could possibly get a level 2. It's a realistic (and easy-ish) way for us to get more points and taking that away doesn't seem right. Almost all of aren't naturally good at something in skating, so where do you draw the line?

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But should a level 4 spiral sequence count so much more than a jump?

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Ehh, I wouldn't go so far as to say doubles are underrated. Skaters who can do good doubles are getting lots of points for them. But ITA with manleywoman above - should level 4 be worth SO much more than a good double sal? Personally, I don't think so. That's the flaw with IJS being tailored to elites. A double sal is "nothing" for them, so it only gets 1.5 points. They're all expected to do level 3/4 spirals, so maybe to encourage it, the authors gave it more points. It's valued similar to triples, but for many adult levels, doubles are their triples. I do agree that step sequences are underrated.

Spirals ... I don't know. It seems to me that any body type can learn edgy footwork, good spins and double jumps, but not everyone can be taught to yank their leg up to their ear. But maybe it's just my preconceived notion that insanely flexible spiral sequences get more points than "regular" spirals. I'll have to rewatch the Gold events to see what kind of spirals are getting level 2 and up.

Trufax!

Well said.

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I agree about the spirals - and that is a problem of using IJS for non-elite levels. I wish that step sequences were rewarded far more than spirals, so we'd see more of them (footwork, not spirals).

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Well said. IJS was created (initially) for senior- and junior-level skaters. Doing a double is a penalty for these skaters, thus the relative low value. Also, those skaters do not have an option of choosing to do footwork versus a spiral sequence, whereas adults get to pick one. I personally do the spiral sequence not because it gets more points (that's nice, of course) but because my footwork just would not be very good.

I must also say that doing a level 3 or 4 spin is VERY difficult and should be rewarded! But for elites, the total points garnered for all jumps in the program mightily trumps the points earned for the spins. For adults, the points are more equal. Whether that is good or bad is something that the adult committee mayhap should look into.

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That combo is worth more than an axel, but the combo and axel take up completely different "boxes" in IJS, so it's not a fair comparison. Your friend used up a combo box with the salchow-loop, so now my question is, what did she replace the axel with?

It's the same at the elite level. Sure, two triple jumps in combination are worth more than a quad, but it's apples and oranges. That solo-jump box that the quad would fill would still be open no matter what combination(s) the skater performs.

Personally, I think that instead of sequences being worth only 80% of their total value, they should be worth 100%, but combos should be worth an extra 10% or 20% because all jumps are harder to do in combination than to do solo.

Also, I agree about the spirals. In my own case, I physically can't do spirals because of my back. So I have to do a step sequence, and it's so much harder to even get a level 3 on steps than it is to get a level 4 on spirals. I will be very interested to see what comes out of the ISU meeting this summer!

Were you trying to say "maybe" or "perhaps?"

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Total word about the sweepers being distracting. I mean, they're cute and everything, and they did a great job sweeping, but I'd rather not have to explain to them where I'm from, how many miles away that is and how long it took me to get to MN -- while I'm taking my guards off for my six-minute warmup!

I think it's also easier to get a higher level with a spiral sequence than a footwork seq. We have a difficult sequence and the points are not worth the effort. We're going to change to a spiral sequence.

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As I said before, all things being equal in terms of difficulty, the jump should get more points. However, totally discounting spirals isn't the solution since it will discourage anyone from attempting sequences.

Mayhap means "by chance."

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Perhaps the best thing to do would be what Skate Canada did for their lower levels in that no matter what you do, you are capped at it getting called a L1 for their bronze and silver equivalents. Maybe cap Gold and Masters at calling spins and steps/spirals a L2 and any additional feature is taken into account on the GOE?

They were trying to be nice, but, I was focused on my coach's program in his event and they were trying to talk to me while I was watching. I said, I am sorry, but this is important and I need to focus on this, can you ask me again when he's done?

That works. It might also encourage more people to do step sequences.

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In Canada and at the ISU they use IJS all the way down, I am told in Canada they have points for waltz jumps, not a lot but they are there. It does seem very hard to get a level 3 step and less difficult to get a level 3 spiral. Of course, like Manleywoman, I will not subject the judges to my spirals. Mind you, I will gladly hang upside down off my partner/coach!!

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