I'm very sad because our rink is holding an ISI competition, and I was finally going to comete. But now I read the announcement and it says if you've passed the Pre-Bronze test you have to compete ISI Freestyle 3. That's crazy- they don't equate at all! (I've only passed ISI Freestyle 1- in freestyle 2 my half lutz barely gets off the ice, and I don't know what a half toe walley is...)

The PB requirements are
2 foot spin- from ISI 1
1 foot spin- from ISI 2
forward/backward crossovers- not covered in ISI freestyle levels
2 jumps (half or whole)- the jumps from ISI 1 cover this, though I did waltz jump and toe loop which are ISI 1 and ISI 3, but half flip (ISI 1) was my backup jump if I couldn't do toe loops in warmup.
Forward spiral- ISI 1 has forward arabesque

So how does PB equate to ISI 3? it seems closest to ISI 1 with a one foot spin thrown in! There is a change foot spin! I don't know the dance sequence- how does that compare to the footwork you'd be expected to know by PB? Or is it more reflective of the bronze moves?

URGH- I was looking forward to finally competing, but I can't compete ISI 3!

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-Jessi
What I need is a montage...
Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009)

Yup, I realized that last year when I considered doing ISI. I've passed pre-bronze but no way in the hot place can I compete at the level ISI wants to stick me in. I don't mind coming in last but I want to look like I at least belong in that class. That's why I get a kick out of people saying ISI is "easier"

j

ITA - the ISI tests aren't any "easier" than the USFSA tests. They're just mixed up differently.

I like that phrase "no way in the hot place" - lol.

I was primarily an ISI skater, competing FS1, then FS2, then FS4 and FS5. I passed the test for FS3, but I really hated the back pivot and a good friend would have been competing against me, so I never competed at that level. I waited a few weeks and tested up to FS4 for the season.

FS3 has:
Back Outside or Inside Pivot,
Salchow,
Change Foot Spin;
Backward Arabesque (Spiral),
Toe Loop or Toe Walley,
Dance Step Sequence (9-step; mohawks and crossovers)

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Darling... do interpretive!

Believe it or not, I am considering trying this. At ISI Freestyle 2, I think. Yeah, I don't have the waltz jump, but I don't have to include it in the program. We'll see... I'll talk to Brianna and see if she thinks I'm nuts...

Yeah- interp would be fun, do you know enough about ISI to know what is allowed and what is not? That would be my worry- I'd do something not allowed. But I like the idea of something I don't have to rehearse And it would be easy to practice for- just choreograph and skate along to everyone else's music at the rink

If I'm back on the ice with enough time to prepare one, I might consider spotlight. Then again, if I'm back on the ice in time to prepare I can almost guarantee my coach would want me to be doing a compulsory routine (which i've practiced at ISI 3- but I can't do it!).

Well if I absolutely want to compete I could always do stroking

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-Jessi
What I need is a montage...
Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009)

Your coach would be thrilled if you did stroking... That's the one category he was trying to convince everyone to do last time we held a competition...

Are you confused with interpretive and improv? Or maybe I am, LOL!

ISI's Interpretive is tricky - you hear the music 3x during warmup and you have to make up a routine on the spot. It helps if you have some stock moves prepared in advance, like transitions and interesting spin or jump entries. You also have to remember to end WITH THE MUSIC. That's one of the biggest point-earners.

"Improv" is a USFSA phrase for the same type of event, at least from what I've read on competition entry forms.

What about skating an ISI Artistic program? You choose your own music, costume and there are no technical requirements.

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In any case, whether you fail to do required moves or do some illegal (higher level) moves for whatever event you choose, the worst thing that could happen would be you'd come in last place.

Happens to me all the time even when I do what I'm supposed to.

So, would you enjoy preparing and performing a program for competition regardless of placement?

Does anyone know if you HAVE to skate at FS3 if you've passed pre-bronze, or if you can skate at your ISI level? I'll be FS1 in time for adult nationals, but I was planning on taking my pre-bronze MIF since I finally got the hang of the waltz eight. No way I can do a Salchow or a toe loop-anything requiring a full revolution means I'll need to drop some weight to get my butt high enough in the air. Should I put off my pre-bronze tests until after adult nationals if I want to skate at FS1?

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deannathegeek
"It's like trying to do a toe loop in hockey skates-you have to have the right tools for the job."

The competition announcement I have says that if you have passed USFSA PreBronze freeskate you must skate ISI Freestyle 3. I imagine this applies to many competitions.

This is the freestyle test- you could pass through you senior moves and it wouldn't matter if you haven't passed Pre-Bronze freestyle - it's just the freestyle test they look at.

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-Jessi
What I need is a montage...
Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009)

Well, I'd like to have at least a shot! I don't really have much interest in competing, because it's too expensive. But this competition is at my rink- so I figured it's as cheap as it's going to get! I enjoy performing, but don't see any sense in paying a lot of money to compete at a level I can't do the required moves of.

__________________
-Jessi
What I need is a montage...
Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009)

You can pass your pre-bronze MOVES test, no problem; like another poster said, your moves tests have no effect on your FS level. I, too, find it odd that ISI equates USFS pre-bronze FS with FS3. But for the 1-foot spin I'm ready for USFS pre-bronze FS (and they nicely require only 3 revolutions), but no way am I ready for ISI FS3!! ISI also seems to have some very quirky, particular requirements on various FS tests--half loops, toe walleys and such, whereas USFS does at least give you some leeway. The FS3 dance step sequence sounds similar to the USFS bronze 5-step mohawk.

I wonder if ISI knows that so many USFS skaters skate way above their actual tested level and so take that into account in their conversions?? Now I"m scared to take any FS tests!!! Artistic may be the way to go. . . .

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"Go wash an elephant if you wanna do something big." -Baby Gramps

The cross-over levels apply more to the standard track I think. Most kids switch over to pre-pre during ISI FS4. Then, they have all the elements neccessary to pass pre-pre through pre-juv moves and free. (The level of execution is a different for the two tracks) And FS5/FS6 (with the axel/ 2sal respectively) is roughly the same as test level juv. Even in the required program to test FS5 is 2.5 minutes long if I'm not mistaken. And to comment on that, I have passed FS5, but there is now way I would be competative in open juv, much less reg. juv.

They probably place pre-bronze at ISI3 so it lines up nicely to the cross-over points for the standard track and ISI.

Absolutely - I had passed ISI 4 before switching to USFSA and it's only because of ISI that I've been able to pass my USFSA tests the first try (as of yet, anyway) - and I've already tested on some of the elements for the Silver FS test (flip, loop) and moves (back 3 turns).

I'm pretty amazed that they're saying pre-bronze equals ISI FS3, because of that dreaded change foot spin! (forward to backward to forward again)



ISI is maybe a little friendlier (is that a controversial statement? I don't mean it to be) and definitely more lax in testing standards (I'm sure that is controversial but it is what it is) but isn't really supposed to be easier.

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Revised Official 2010 Goals checklist
Skate __
New boots __
(lowering the bar for 2010 as I haven't skated in a year)

I dont think its moves that makes your placement, its your fs tests. Are you doing both or just moves?
edited to add.... i didnt see same answer above:{

Do you know if that spin has to be 3-3-3? I can sometimes do 3-2-2, but that backspin is pretty weak!

(Then again, the combo is better than my stand alone backspin.)

I just don't see the correlation between Pre-Bronze and ISI 3 at all. Especially since the "dance sequence" appears to be mohawk based.

And the idea presented of the "crossover" point doesn't make sense to me. If kids are switching over at ISI 4 and are ready to pass pre-pre through pre-juv, it doesn't make sense that ISI 4 equates to pre-pre (which equates to PB). Because that would put pre-juv at about ISI 4, preliminary at ISI 3 and pre-pre at ISI 2, not 3. And the passing standard on the standard track is higher than adult track- which would, in theory, put the adult track skaters even lower down (though I don't think there is much difference between passing pre-pre and passing pre-bronze, since there is no score)

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-Jessi
What I need is a montage...
Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009)

I feel like it might be 3-2-3, but I'm not sure. I tested that one so long ago (over 10 years ago) and was stuck in FS4 forever because I couldn't get the flip. For years.

__________________
Revised Official 2010 Goals checklist
Skate __
New boots __
(lowering the bar for 2010 as I haven't skated in a year)

Jessi, where does it say that? I have the announcement for this competition, and on the crossover chart it indicates that someone at Adult Bronze has to compete at least at Freestyle 3, but I don't see Pre-Bronze even mentioned.

ETA: I don't know how I messed up so that the quote didn't appear in the little box, but I can't figure out how to fix it now... sigh.

You know what- I think you're right- I can't read, it does say Bronze! That might make me very happy (if I can compete ISI 1, though I guess I'd have to take my 1 foot spin out of the program) or even worse off (if I have to compete ISI 2 and figure out what a toe walley is).

Pre-Bronze doesn't appear to be mentioned (though Pre-Pre is listed as Freestyle 3...)

Now I feel silly as this whole thread might have been a lot of fuss over nothing!

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-Jessi
What I need is a montage...
Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009)

I was thinking about this at the rink and I wondered if it was a mixup. The ISI Handbook shows that BRONZE = ISI FS3, not pre-bronze. No listing for Pre-Bronze at all. (ISI FS4 is usually a crossover to USFSA Prelim)

Glad that was clarified and you can compete!

A half toe walley is easy - here's the definition from the ISI handbook:


Obligatory soapbox message:
Skaters really need to have their own, up-to-date rulebook if they're going to compete.

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Well this skater needs to learn to read! (And I didn't ever intend to compete- I have a USFSA rulebook!)

But I think the toe walley sounds like something I can figure out, and then I can compete ISI 2 if I decide too- I think ISI 1 would be "wrong" for me to compete as, because I do think I'm past that level- not to mention it would be weird to not be able to do a 1 foot spin!

__________________
-Jessi
What I need is a montage...
Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009)

That doesn't sound right. If you jump off a (left) back inside edge and the right toe, rotating to the left for half a revolution, you're doing a half-flip, not a half-toe walley.

Half toe walley would be right back inside edge, left toe, rotating to the left.

Or left back inside edge, right toe, rotating to the right.

A toe-wally is like a toe-loop, only off an inside edge. A half-toe-wally ccw is RBI left toe 1/2 turn right toe (facing forwards) step to LF(usually outside).

D'oh! If you did that, we'd be competing against each other... I'm gonna take you down, sucka! Just kidding -- I don't waltz jump and don't quite have a scratch spin. I'd still cheer for you!

Wait- are you competing ISI 1 or 2? ISI 1 only has a 2 foot spin and that's where the waltz jump is (and half flip- you have that from synchro!). ISI 2 has the one foot spin, but it's jumps are half toe walley and half lutz (weird they are both toe jumps)

Besides, if you do spotlight- I won't be competing against you, I'll probably do interp, compulsory and stroking if I can compete at all. If I can find non-vocal music I might do a freestyle routine instead of interp, but I need a better understanding of ISI rules (what can be done, what gets judged, etc). (For example- my "compulsory" routine has connecting moves, but it seems like the test announcement has you just go and do each move without anything in between them, and I think for an interp I can do pretty much anything I want that I'm capable of, everything blocked is too high level, but I don't really understand if things from LOWER levels count in the freestyle routine -ie. waltz jump- or if you just have to do all the elements of the test. I don't have an ISI rulebook, but I'm sure my coach does- he is all things ISI)

But it kind of seems like if you do one event, you should do a few- because additional events are really cheap- so I'll just do whatever I can without being overwhelmed. This will probably be my only competition.

I got word from the PT that I can start skating again- laps only no jumping or sit spins, so I can see if I can get working on that combo spin and I might go ahead and start back synchro.

__________________
-Jessi
What I need is a montage...
Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009)