AW1 - I just watched the video of your daughter skating, and I think she's doing wonderfully for her age. She has a great presence on the ice and seems like she enjoys performing.

Perhaps your daughter can work on learning dance or beginning MIF...or even synchro? Is every kid going to land a double axel? Probably not. But he or she can work on passing all their dances or MIF, make a synchro team (if that's ever a possibility), and just be happy.

BuggieMom - I experienced the same feelings that your daughter has prior to competitions. At one competition, my "best" skating friend and her parents were planning to take us all out to dinner after our event...until, that is, I beat her daughter. Suddenly, they left without saying anything to us and our friendship was never the same. It's sad, but it's skating. It's just disheartening to see the cut throat competitiveness at lower levels, especially from parents who think they're child is going to the Olympics.

If your 8-year-old is already at the point where she finds satisfaction in skating through medals, then yes, I think she'd be happier in gymnastics.

That said, the New England Inter Club Council has what's called the "Gold Medal Rule" for its competitions: once you win a Gold Medal in a free skating event that has more than three skaters in it, you cannot enter another NEICC competition at that level - you MUST test up and compete at the next highest level. This is to prevent the same people from winning gold medals at every competition and encourage people to test. It doesn't really have a lot of impact since there are only three or four NEICC compeitions a year and there are many other non-qualifying competitions that skaters can enter, but it might be something for other federations to consider.

Unfortunately not really. Being in Australia, and living in a tropical climate, ice skating is not really the most popular sport, and doesn't warrant that many competitions.

Thank you.

I agree. The skating community here is so small anyway that I just think it's really sad. I have no grand illusions of greatness for her, but I do want for her to enjoy her skating.

Actually she's only 5, (almost 6)! And yes she enjoys getting medals BUT she also loves skating. It's hard when even an under 6 feels they are being held back no matter how hard they try.

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AW1
mum to Miss Lil (6yrs old)
mum to be to #2 due in March 08

WOW. This seems harsh. After ONE gold medal? Are skaters who have mastery of their current level, but unable to pass the next test just forced out of skating?

__________________
-Jessi
What I need is a montage...
Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009)

I agree. just because you can beat three skaters in one particular comp, in no way doe that mean you are ready to move up. That's the problem with trying to make hard and fast rules to deal with sandbagging...it's just not that easy to define. I don't think that is a smart solution at all.

j

If I'm recalling correctly, we used to have the same rule in Iowa when we had the Iowa Championships. (This was not the same as the State Games -the Iowa Council that sponsored it has been inactive for a few years now.) It ONLY applied to that competition. If you won a freeskate event at a level (i.e., you were the state champion at that level), you couldn't compete at that level again. I don't think it applied to adults, and it may have only applied to the lower levels - I can't remember. If a skater couldn't/didn't want to test up, they didn't have to - they just wouldn't be able to enter a freeskating event at the Iowa Championships until they did. I think they could still have done an artistic, though, and certainly could have entered any other competition they wanted. At any rate, I don't remember it ever being a problem.

NEICC competitions are Introductory events - designed to fit into the competition structure as a transition between Basic Skills competitions and the big Opens. There are only four to six NEICC competitions a year, whereas there are Basic Sills comps springing up everywhere and in New England there is at least one Open almost every month of the year. So winning one gold medal in an NEICC competition doesn't shut a skater out of ever competing at that that level again; the skater just can't do another NEICC competition at that level. It's more of a sign that the skater is ready to take on larger fields in the Opens. The rule is there to give as many skaters as possible a chance to win.

Anyway, the Gold Medal Rule has been in effect for decades and nobody here thinks it's unfair. In fact the addition of the "more than three skaters in the field" part was a relativcely recent addition, created specifically to exclude the lower-attended events like boys and adults from being shut out of chances to compete.
As for sandbagging, again given the multitude of competitions we have here, it gets pretty obvious who's being held back - when you see the same skater win six or eight times in Pre-Juv with elements that could beat most of the skaters in Novice, then it's not unheard of for people (including judges) to suggest to the skater's coach that it might be time to test up.

I think a judge is probably the most appropriate person to make that suggestion.

j

I heard from another person who was at the award presentations that one of the judges (who was presenting trophies) said to the girl who I was referring to in my original post "I hope you've done your preliminary test" to which she replied she had! Now that's just blatant sandbagging in my opinion! She had the opportunity to move her division as one other young guy who was supposed to be in the same division passed his preliminary only in the past week or so, and they changed him to preliminary division so there would have been no hassle changing her.

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AW1
mum to Miss Lil (6yrs old)
mum to be to #2 due in March 08

I've thought about this thread a bit, and now that I've seen your daughter's latest video I have a suggestion. First, she did a lovely job of her program. I agree with whoever said she certainly seems to enjoy performing.

Now for the suggestion. The next time she competes, try to video tape the warm up group she is in. I found that it very helpful for my daughter to see herself skating with the other kids in her level in the background. It also allows you to take a second look at what other kids are doing.

At my dd's first competition she skated her program perfectly without one hitch or bobble. She was thrilled. She placed 7th. She was fine at first, and then that night she was upset. When I asked why she said she didn't understand why she came 7th when she skated her program so well. We talked about what she did, and then we looked at the video of the warm up and looked at some of the elements the other kids were warming up. Loop / loop out of crossovers versus her single loop out of a three turn. Faster camel sits with more rotations on the camel. We also looked at the things she did the best or close to the best - her lovely spiral and musicallity. What she learned was that she should be proud of what she did, but that she need to keep working to increase both her difficulty and her basics. The next day on the ice I saw her talking to her coach. Sure enough, they started working on a loop out of crossovers! She now also spends more time on her basic stroking, posture and technique than she did before.

My point is, your daughter obviously enjoys skating and performing. She does a lovely job of her program; however, I suspect there are many other kids who are legitimately in her level who have stronger basic skating and harder elements. They are also probably 2 or 3 years older! So she need to be proud of herself for just going out there and look to improve her performance each time. She will continue to progress and enjoy the sport if she focuses more on improvement and less on placement.

Unfortunately no, you're not allowed to video or photograph someone else's child unless you have permission from their parents. So we wouldn't be able to do that. But it's a good suggestion.

She is tiny, her legs don't carry her as far or as fast in 1:30 as a bigger child - that's just how it is. And yes they are usually 2-3 yrs older.

I suppose for me, what I don't understand about the whole situation is how they are marked in these contests because, like for example, as you would have seen in her program, Lilly's backspin is non-existent.

However, as I mentioned in the original post, there's only 6 elements required in this level.
If these girls are coming and competing with programs that string together harder moves/jumps which are higher than what's required in that level, why are they continued to be allowed to compete at that level. They should be marked on those 6 elements only shouldn't they?

That's what I don't get. I mean, the judges should be disregarding the elements which are not required - they are just there to fluff out the program right?

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AW1
mum to Miss Lil (6yrs old)
mum to be to #2 due in March 08

Actually, no. Not unless the entry specifically says "elements from higher levels will not be marked" or "elements from higher levels are not allowed." If there is no disclaimer such as this (which is seen often in our entries here) then the girls and their coaches have the right to put in anything they wish. Without that disclaimer, no one would know they were restricted to only those 6 elements, especially if coming from another state/province/area.

Our local competitions also have a rule, like someone said, that if you win a freeskate, you MUST move to the next level the next year, regardless of test. Most of the girls who win are ready to move up, so it's not a problem. That might be a suggestion.

I should note, in our area this isn't the same for dance. There is one girl that competed against me in Cha-Cha four years ago. She recently competed against one of my students in the same dance again this year. She will usually skate 3-4 levels of dance, usually bronze - Pre-silver or silver. My youngers have made it a goal to take at least one first place ordinal from her on the lower dances. If they win, even better. But if they get just one first place from the judges, it keeps the fun and competition in it for them (And hey, whatever I can do to get them to work on their dances willingly!)

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"Without a struggle, there can be no progress" ~ Frederick Douglass

From the competition announcement and rules "Competitors may not use extra elements, except for elements from Stroking or lower levels.
Only the required elements will be marked."

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AW1
mum to Miss Lil (6yrs old)
mum to be to #2 due in March 08

Coming out of lurking for a few minutes to say this, because I hope you will consider it: you are making WAY too big a deal over this. I watched the video- yes, she is very cute, but she's doing two half jumps and a very incorrect salchow (zero checking whatsoever, will probably cause problems in the future so you might want to mention it to her coach because the more she does it the more it will be engrained in her muscle memory and having done the same thing as a little kid I can tell you it takes YEARS to fix it afterwards). She's 5 so obviously her performance is very good for her age, and I doubt many (if any) of the other little kids put out better performances. But...she's doing half and single jumps! Where she places is NOT a big deal at this level! Competitions for these levels are meant to be for fun, for experience, and for self esteem. Placement doesn't even matter. It isn't like she was unfairly denied a spot at the Olympics so you must now lobby such and such avenue to rectify the injustice. She went to a local competition, put on a pretty dress, skated to a fun number, and at that age and level that should honestly be more than enough. You need to teach her to have fun and not care whether or not a medal is involved at this stage. Otherwise she will come to hate competing.

Honestly, I think it's great that you care about your kid's results that much however if she sits in the car and says "mom, I will never win no matter how hard I work", the type of thinking you are displaying on this board can't possibly be conducive to giving your daughter the answer that would help her build self-esteem and not measure her worth compared to other people. This is a judged sport- always subjective, and very often unfair. She could be the best and never win a single competition. Skating is not about winning, it's about doing your best, and hoping you're rewarded. If you base your enjoyement of the sport on how fairly you are placed, you will come to LOATHE it. This is soooooooo far from the end of situations like these. They happen all the time, and they happen at levels where the outcomes decide entire careers. That is how it goes. Your job as a parent is not to go and judge at what level other skaters should be competing. You are honestly doing the one thing that skaters are taught never to do: you're paying attention to the competition. You can't do that, but more importantly, you cannot teach your daughter to do that. If your daughter ends up reasoning like you are on this thread, she will be miserable, she will come to hate this sport, and she will quit. There is absolutely no way to survive in this sport with the outlook you have. None. This is a judged sport, you cannot spend any amount of time dwelling on how unfair a placement is, and you absolutely can never waste your time dwelling on other skaters. In the end, everybody ends up in Senior anyway, and at that point people are of very different ages and skill levels. Look at Senior Worlds: you've got Mao Asada doing triple axels, Yu Na Kim doing 3/3's as if she could do them in her sleep, and the American girls barely pulling off 3/2's. Of course, the girls who are doing the triple axels and 3/3's are going to win. But do you hear those who can't do them say "well, I don't even know why I'm competing since I can't win without those jumps, they shouldn't be allowed to compete against me, it's so unfair"? No. The other girls just try their best, and hope the girls who are at a clear advantage aren't at THEIR best, and the rest is up to chance. Same thing at lower levels, sandbagging or not. Honestly, you could have a girl who's 3 levels higher than your daughter have a bad night and your daughter will still beat her. Nothing is ever for certain in skating, and it's really not all about skating levels. Plus, if that many of the other girls are doing higher level elements then perhaps *their* parents feel that your daughter should be competing in the level below. Wouldn't be any more offensive than you wanting their daughters to move up just because they happen to keep winning everything. So, you'd rather these girls who are winning against your daughter now, be in your daughter's situation? Perhaps if they moved up, they would be competing against girls who are ALSO sandbagging and who will also win everytime, and then those girls who you forced to move up have no chance of winning either. It's a vicious circle, and I don't think it's fair to wish your problem on someone else as a kind of a solution. Instead of trying to get everyone to stop sandbagging so that your daughter has a chance, keeping her in a level below for an extra year would be a much more successful way to let her "have a chance" against her peers...since, as you say...EVERYONE sandbags. So effectively if you sandbag too then she'll be competing against girls of her own level and you're really not sandbagging at all.

You will not change this sport. You ask why? Because people know how to get through it- don't worry about what other people are doing, mind your OWN business, do YOUR best, and hope you get rewarded for it. Trust me, if you start commenting on who is sandbagging and who should move up...it doesn't even matter who you comment to...your daughter is going to pay. The second you open your mouth with opinions on rival skaters, and your daughter is going to feel it in placement and treatment at the rink.

If you really care about whether or not your daughter enjoys skating, then you will find a way to stop feeling the way you do about the "great injustice" placed upon your 5 year old beginning skater, and you will let her just SKATE. If she is discouraged because she skated better than others and still lost, it is a perfect opportunity for you to teach her about self esteem and that the only thing that matters is doing YOUR best, and that only you can decide whether or not it was good enough. It's a golden opportunity you have to teach her a lesson far more important than a stupid entry-level medal that will not matter in a few years, so I'd count this as a blessing. She has plenty of time to medal, but you aren't going to raise the type of skater capable of doing so if you react the way you are. Make lemonade out of those lemons and teach her a little bit about how unfair the world is and how to navigate through it and how to feel like a winner even if you don't have the gold hanging around your neck. In this sport and in life, she is toast without this perspective.

I hope you will find a way to let this go and look at the bigger picture. Best of luck to you, your daughter, and anyone else going through this situation...which is...basically anyone who's ever competed.

Yes, but in general, someone who is more advanced has better stroking, and is probably performing the elements that ARE being judged, better. That being said, just because this would be the case, does not necessarily mean these people are ready to be competitive at the next level, because in that level there will ALSO be people who can do more advanced elements and are performing the required elements better. The only key to improving your placement is to improve your skating. You're lucky that you're only judged on listed elements, because in the U.S., most competitions are a free-for-all when a kid who's just tested their axel for the first time are actually doing DOUBLE axels in competition at their level.

Instead of expecting the entire skating world to change its ways and come around to your way of thinking, all you can do is come around to theirs, and let your daughter compete in the level below until she also can do harder elements and thus performs the ones being judged well enough to rival the other girls. Plain and simple. If you do not want to do this, that's fine also, but she'll most likely always lose and she will have to come to terms with that. Everyone is capable of doing MUCH harder elements when they compete in a certain level, whether these harder elements are allowed in the competition or not. It's how the sport works.

Ok, I think I'm done rambling on this thread. I just (as you gathered...) feel pretty strongly about all of this.

Placement at these levels does matter to kids actually, if you ask my daughter I'm sure she'd tell you. It's the type of kid she is. I couldn't care if she didn't win a brass razoo, I'm just happy for her to go and have fun (as I stated earlier).

If coming last does not hurt ones self esteem, then what IS it doing for them? It bothers me so much, because it bothers her. And no matter how many times her coach and I have told her it's not about the medals, she just doesn't understand how trying your best can result in always being last.

Once you pass a test here you cannot go back a level. BTW, I never said EVERYONE sandbags, if you had read my postings - actually everyone here keeps telling me it's the way of the skating world and effictively I have to like it or lump it!

We have a much smaller skating community here in Australia, so while in the US it might be the way of the world, I don't see why it can't be rectified here. I'm not expecting my daughter to reach the heights of Australian representation, because frankly Australian Skaters are not competitive internationally.

The thing is, they have a hard time getting kids to stay in figure skating AT ALL past learn to skate here, and this is another one of the things putting them off staying with the sport ... surely it couldn't be a bad thing, to stamp it out and therefore encourage other 'inbetween' skaters to make the transition into the sport?

But I would like for her to go out there and have a fair chance against anyone else who she skates against. Is that so wrong?

Anyone would think I'm asking these girls to cut off their arms and legs by some of the responses I'm getting.

Yes stardust skies, I am passionate too, as you can probably tell.

__________________
AW1
mum to Miss Lil (6yrs old)
mum to be to #2 due in March 08

"No matter how good you are, and how hard you try, there will always be someone better." and "Sometimes even when you do your absolute best, other people may be better."

That's my response to the kids I skate with who gripe about not winning. And as someone who consistently comes in last or nearly last, I know that not winning isn't The Worst Thing in The World. I don't skate for the medals, I skate for fun. It's way too expensive to do otherwise.

Since your daughter's only five, then it's up to you as her parent to decide where winning ranks on the scale of "Why Skate?" reasons. I haven't watched the videos, but it's entirely possible that as much as she enjoys skating and performing, your daughter just isn't good at it. Maybe she will be if she sticks with it, maybe she won't. Not every kid who starts skating has the body type and the temperment and the cordination to be great no matter how hard they work. If she - and you - can skate because it's fun and a challenge and is good exercize, then fine, keep going. But it the emphasis is going to be on competiting and collecting medals and being The Best, then I'm thinking that skating - and competing - isn't the right fit for either of you.

Amen amen amen. This is what I've been trying to say. These is what other people who have been in this sport longer than you are trying to tell you. I understand that's not what you want to hear or accept but I can promise that if you do not come to terms with this aspect of skating, even if you could kick up or kick out every single sandbagger, you will not enjoy this sport. And that's the last thing I have to say on this subject, because you'll either believe some of this or you won't.

j

In which case, I'm afraid it sounds as though she is not yet mature enough to be competing. She probably is still too young to grasp the concept that she can't control what the judges do, and she can't control what the other skaters do; all she can do is to go out there, skate her best, and have enormous fun, whether she places first, last, or somewhere in between.

If she can't cope with that idea, maybe she shouldn't compete for a year or so, until she develops the maturity to do so and to realise that, no matter where she places, as long as she has tried her hardest, you couldn't be more proud of her, and nor could her coach!

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

Speaking gently here...
I understand AW1's frustration. I have felt it also. I have thought the exact same things at one point or another, and been given the same advice. I agree that, to these kids, placement DOES matter, no matter how much we tell them it doesn't. Deep down inside, every child goes into a competition wanting to medal. My dd goes to competitions because she wants to compete, hopes to place, and maybe even win, and I believe that is healthy, as long as it does not cross over into "she NEEDS to win". She can skate for the gold, as long as she can accept last place. To most of us adults, medals and placement matter to some extent, but they aren't ALL that matters. To us, there is more reward in competeing than that. We are adults. We know how to feel like that. Kids have to learn how to feel like that. And teaching them a healthy balance between "the thrill of victory, and the agony of defeat" begins at the first competition, and probably doesn't end until they quit. Kids, especially the young ones, WANT to do well, and it hurts to have a piece of paper tell you you didn't, whether you deserved it or not. As a parent, it hurts me also, especially if I feel something wasn't fair. It hurts to watch my dd learn to accept the defeats with the victories, but learn she is. I don't think AW1's dd, at 5 years old, is any different in her desires for a medal than other children. If she can push past that and continue competeing despite placing lower, then you know that she has found that balance. If it is really something she can't get past, then it may indeed serve her better to stop competeing for a while until she is older.
It is not wrong to want her to have a fair chance. But you need to remember that there are people out there that have a "win at all costs" mentality. And really, honestly, there is nothing you can do about that. No amount of talking to them will change their mind, it will only frustrate you and make you the least popular person at the rink
Sad as it is, I must agree with this. Grumble here, grumble at home, but do NOT grumble at the rink. Yes, you want it changed, no, it is not right, but it WILL happen, and I don't know how to make you feel better about that.

Hang on...give her a chance! We ask these kids to get all dolled up like little adults, skate above their years, and forget that they are children with feelings. It is NORMAL for a 5yo to want to be The Best. They have to learn how to accept NOT being The Best. Give her the time to learn. Over time, with your help, she will learn that winning is not the only reward from skating. This IS a golden opportunity, as stardust said, for you to be able to help her. Try to look beyond your own feelings and focus on what you can do as her mom to help her learn.
I understand what you are feeling, it is the unfairness that makes you want to tear your hair out, not the fact that she is not winning. In time, you will be past these feelings, and will be able to accept that there are times when it is "not fair", you will chalk it up, and go on to the next competiton. And, I suspect, so will you daughter.
Take a deep breath...it will all be OK...
My best to you and your dd

QUOTE]Speaking gently here...
I understand AW1's frustration. I have felt it also. I have thought the exact same things at one point or another, and been given the same advice. I agree that, to these kids, placement DOES matter, no matter how much we tell them it doesn't. Deep down inside, every child goes into a competition wanting to medal. My dd goes to competitions [QUOTE]

I hate hate hate when people make general comments. No, not to EVERY child placements matter.To ME, when we first started I was upset.Not my kids.ME.
Fast foward 4 years, I long ago stoped being upset about placements.My skaters have NEVER been upset.NEVER.Disappointed yes, upset no.They have placed first , last and in the middle.They have been taught since age 4 its not about placement, its about the experience.My daughter has even skated up a level just so she would be with another skater, knowing she wouldnt place as well..... and she placed first!!
I know as a parent, we all want our kids to do well and be happy. I know you want that for your daughter. But this is her journey and HER experience.You need to let go and just let her skate her best. Someday, some one will be watching her, saying maybe she should move up too

we were at a Doug Leigh seminar recently where he gave parents the best talk in the world about what he says to athletes he trains....[very rough, intense off the cuff guy--I can see why he is so successful at what he does btw]

among other things one of the things he said was that if his athlete was standing and watching what someone else was doing, it took away valuable training time and mental ability of their own. He said if athletes spend five seconds every time they hit the ice thinking or looking at what someone else is doing....they lose at least one training day each month not to mention what it does to their subconscious. over a year, thats two weeks....etc etc....athletes need mental strength...more than the three d's even-determination, drive and dedication-b/c mental toughness is what is the glue that keeps the 3 d's together....[and something about the time it wastes for parents comparing]

he also said if you don't move them up they never learn. they don't learn what its like to push yourself...to lose, to win, to be in the middle. they don't build character or hunger. which is why certain athletes not just in skating are winners, and others arent.

on a more personal note, our child at age 6 after just starting skating got fast-tracked through into private lessons straight out of canskate. won everything in sight till age 10. the people complained-yes, even to the judges, she was sandbagging-she wasn't-she was really in her category then some people-ie wellmeaning club parents were really worried when at age 12 she didn't have every double like suzy age 10 at the rink who had them....[suzy was bigger and stronger than ours]
but then Suzy started growing at at age 12 gained about 15 pds and three inches has not one double in two years despite all the work-just can't get it rotated anymore....and my daughter has them all despite her 4 ft 10 frame working on double axel-and is hoping to pass her pntest this summer. will mine win? nope probably place in the last two maybe three if lucky. some will say shes too old now....no matter how small she is....but she's going b/c according to her "she wants in the game, even if it means last-because its about the progress not the medal"....thats what we taught her to learn early on in the game-yes, some care about placement...some care about the journey....and maybe thats what makes some skaters different than others??? [I sure wouldn't want to do this sport-what other sport gives you four minutes to make your sometimes only impression????...on two blades that can either be your best friends or your worst [and most expensive] weapons....]

take care, and do keep in touch with her journey....

By "these kids" I was speaking more about the younger ones, the ones who haven't learned what else there is great about competitions.
And yes, that was a generalization, sorry. I go through these post about 50 times looking for anything that might be taken wrong, a better way to say something, and well, I can't catch them all!
So, I amend my statement to:
I think AW1 is disappointed about WHY she believes her dd placed poorly, not that she placed poorly at all. But AW1, you need to be careful that you do not give your dd the idea that any time she doesn't do well it is because someone is sandbagging. The way we, as parents, act about placement goes a long way to teaching them that placement, in the end, doesn't matter, whether someone is sandbagging or not.
Exactly! You have taught them! Just as I have taught my dd, and will continue to teach her. She still would like to win or medal when she competes, but she is not expecting to, and it is not the end of the world if she doesn't. She gets disappointed, but not upset. I feel that is normal. She has been first, middle and last, and has dealt with all of them with flying colors! She loves to compete, regardless of placement. But that was not something she was born with, it is something she has learned.
OK, I have read this about 50 times now, I think it's ok to post......maybe...

I completely understand where you're coming from and I think it's easy to tell from your posts that you are the type of mom who CARES about her daughter's feelings- I don't get the impression that *you* care whether or not she medals, you just don't want her to be unhappy. Which is so great. The point I was trying to make though is that at large, skating can be a very emotionally difficult sport to be a part of. If, as a 5 year old, she already cares and is already discouraged about her placements, I'm just saying it might not be the best idea for her to be competing, at least right now. Because, exactly...if all it's going to do is crush her self-esteem...then what's the point? At this level, building self-confidence and having fun is the point. If neither are happening, I think the best idea might be to focus more on testing and try to make testing into an event, and forego competition until she is better able to realize that sadly, the judges will not always reward hard work, that there is bribing, that there are judges who play favorites, or who reward people who show up with a certain coach, and so on and so on. Many skaters, of all ages, get so frustrated by all the politics that they do quit. Or they do show skating. But..you really have to be mentally cut out for this type of competition in order to survive in it. I don't know your daughter, but from the sounds of it, you might want to consider just entering her in club shows (if there are any) and making her focus on her tests, for now. She could even have a program she works on for stamina and fun, that she doesn't compete with.

That's just my suggestion for you at this point. I just think it would be a real shame for her to come to dislike the sport because she doesn't yet understand how it all works. And yes, I understand that Australian figure skating is much different than USA figure skating..but....it's still figure skating, and personally I think it will be impossible for you to change anything without ruining your daughter's reputation amongst the judges, thus accomplishing one thing only: giving them another reason to place her last. It's sad, it shouldn't be that way, but the fact that it shouldn't be that way doesn't mean that it isn't. Good luck.

I understand that. But she cant ever control who she skates with or what skills they have.It will never be a level playing field.it just is what is is...
I am so embrassed but if you do a search on me, you will find out upset I was 4 years ago.I said the same thing, she is with older kids ect. I got over that a long time ago.
Good luck !